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 dennyden
Joined: 6/27/2007
Msg: 51
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Peyton is not the Greatest QB everPage 3 of 4    (1, 2, 3, 4)
again iam not grippin about it, iam just pointing out that u can make a case about any era if u want to hate, iam sure u know what iam talking about, thats all u have been doing towards manning. yeah i would have like my team to win, but congrats to the saints, see iam not hating. besides bro ur team needs to get to the playoffs before it can play for a championship, ya get my drift? also iam just pointing out ur double standards, iam not grippin about other players or teams i just make examples of how ur logic never really seems to make sense when u apply it to other players. just keep telling urself its the media that makes manning great, next stop for manning is canton, hate on that bro,lol . also for the record you where gripping that mannings records will be watered down because dbs cant cover wrs these days, so does that come from the decade worth of misery of being a redskins fan???
 skoochie
Joined: 4/29/2008
Msg: 52
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Peyton is not the Greatest QB ever
Posted: 2/24/2010 2:38:27 PM

Manning is the best qb in the NFL right now.


You must not be interested in stats speaknig for themselves. He's the media darling and golden boy of the NFL. There have statistically been better QBs for past couple years. And I do remember the arguement you tried to make that in the last few minute with the game on the line you would want Manning. Well, Manning had a decent lead and lost it. Then with a chance to tie the game toward the end...he proved you all wrong by throwing an interception to ice the game for the Saints. He even got the ball after that and didn't score.

You can't talk about how sats don't matter, and then say it's the guy who I want on my team at the end of the game. That guy you're referring to is still known as the guy who can't win the big one. Yeah, he's done it once...out of how many tries?

Brees is easily the best in the league right now. He's who I want to comeback when they're behind. He's Mr. Consistancy right now. Broke the NFL ALL TIME RECORD for completion percentage. That means he did better here than any QB mentioned in this thread. Number one rated passer two years in a row. How does Manning outshine that in anyone's book? I'll tell you...because he is the most hyped QB in the league. Media and advertisements.
 dennyden
Joined: 6/27/2007
Msg: 53
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Peyton is not the Greatest QB ever
Posted: 2/24/2010 2:42:56 PM
..leave to the freaking conservative media to taint competition between combantants on a even playing feild because they cant just report the story as it unfolds on the field



i guess u just cant help urself from doing this can you, have u been so brainwashed that u see everything this way. so i guess it was the conservative media that got limbaugh kicked off of espn? wait arent they the same people that u say are in bed with manning and farve, again ur logic makes no sense. they do let it unfold on the feild and manning has been one of the best ever, thats right one of not the best ever. so i guess its that same media that loves brady as well right. god u r out there, this has nothing to do with conservs and libs, for god sakes man its sports not politics.
 MrLove45
Joined: 1/31/2010
Msg: 54
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Peyton is not the Greatest QB ever
Posted: 2/24/2010 2:51:09 PM
say it again Skoochie....Brees is the best quarterback playing in today's nfl games
and I sure would like to see P Rivers win a ring too but right now its Brees time to shine as he just did over the colts...
 dennyden
Joined: 6/27/2007
Msg: 55
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Peyton is not the Greatest QB ever
Posted: 2/24/2010 3:07:00 PM
i would piggy back on someone who makes more sense then you too,lol. anyway i thought brady is one of the best ever, but yet u say breese is better then him now, again theres that logic of yours, oh well gotta get outta this beyond stupid convo with you,lol
 MrLove45
Joined: 1/31/2010
Msg: 56
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Peyton is not the Greatest QB ever
Posted: 2/24/2010 3:27:50 PM
and you once again attempt to take me out of context....I was in agreement with him about Brees over the past 2 years ....

you would make a good journalist for fox news because you sure got that spinning thing down to a science....
 dennyden
Joined: 6/27/2007
Msg: 57
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Peyton is not the Greatest QB ever
Posted: 2/25/2010 12:58:33 AM
^^^ yeah and i guess u would make a journalist for the new york times, ya know all opinions and few facts,lol. again i just like to point out the fact of your double standards, then again just most like brainwashed party person u hate having ur own words brought up to you, then again i wouldnt exspect anything less of you. but i do have to admit i think there can be a strong case made that brees has been the best qb over the last 2 years, wow look at that after all the so called spin we seem to agree on something,lol
 JackDiamond312
Joined: 1/21/2007
Msg: 58
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Peyton is not the Greatest QB ever
Posted: 2/25/2010 3:20:12 AM
I'm a huge New Orleans and Brees fan, and Drew played great this last year... and the year before. But Peyton played just as good this year, he could pick a team apart, he was just beat in the big game. Favre has had a great career, and possibly this last year was his best. So it's hard to say one QB stood out high above another this past year, Brees was the best QB in the Super Bowl, but if the Colts and the Saints played again the following weekend, Peyton could have lit up the Saints, you never know, that's how good they are.

But it is for sure in my book, that Peyton isn't the greatest ever. nether is Drew. But both are great, and by the end of their careers, who knows? One guy I really admire and doesn't get the mention he deserves is Kurt Warner.
 dennyden
Joined: 6/27/2007
Msg: 59
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Peyton is not the Greatest QB ever
Posted: 2/25/2010 4:23:20 AM
Favre has had a great career, and possibly this last year was his best



and just think that he is 40, think about that!!, anyway i have agree with u about the best, its hard to say whos the best for the most part its just someones opinion, thats it. but peyton is in the conversation, even if in the top 10 or 5 most likely, but hes still in it. but u are right brees has played great the last couple of years
 MGMLION
Joined: 4/29/2008
Msg: 60
Peyton is not the Greatest QB ever
Posted: 2/25/2010 4:46:18 AM
My vote for best QB ever John Elway.
My favorite QB ever Roger Staubach.
 big pacific
Joined: 7/2/2009
Msg: 61
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Peyton is not the Greatest QB ever
Posted: 2/25/2010 5:56:02 AM

so u knock manning for just having one superbowl right? well sims has only one, kelly has none and marino has none, wow what a standard you have,lol. also i guess its the "shoddy jornalism" thats going to let manning break most if not all of the passing records right? no you being a redskins fan has nothing to do with ur assement of manning, being a closed minded fool has everything to do with it,lol


Nope, i knock manning because of his individual performances in the playoffs. It's not JUST about rings, it's about how you win or in mannings case LOSE them. He's made the playoffs almost every season since he's been in the league, had top 10 defenses every year, had a PREMIER receiving core and the benefit of great running backs and offensive line.

The games they lost EVERY post season were always mannings fault, bad pic's, bad decisions in the post season. his post season stats are not so hot, he lost THIS superbowl on his own, that ball should NEVER have been thrown. So it's not just about rings, it's about why he didn't get them. Manning has had every advantage, and blew those chances.

That being said, in the regular season he's a machine.
 dennyden
Joined: 6/27/2007
Msg: 62
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Peyton is not the Greatest QB ever
Posted: 2/25/2010 11:41:40 AM
wow if thats not hindsight being 20/20,lol. look manning kept them in that game nevermind the 300 plus yards he threw for right, nevermind the fact that the colts ranked dead last in rushing right, also the year that the colts won the superbowl there is no way the colts d was ranked in the top 10, i dont know what stats u are using to get that top 10 rankings but according to nfl .com here are the colts rankings over the last couple years 09/18th , 08/11th , 07/3rd , 06/21 and 05/11th so like i said i dont know where u are getting ur stats but they dont seem to match up. great running backs again they where dead last in the nfl in rushing this year, i guess that means they where great right? have u even looked at manning postseason numbers ? they are not great but they are not bad either he has played 18 games, he has thrown for over 5200 yards with 29tds and 19ints, also keep in mind his worst playoff year was 06 when they won the superbowl, go figure. also his comp.% is like 63% for the playoffs thats not to bad at all. the colts just were not as good as the patriots the years they lost to them , oh but then again i dont think anyone else was either since the patriots won those superbowls,lol.
 big pacific
Joined: 7/2/2009
Msg: 63
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Peyton is not the Greatest QB ever
Posted: 2/25/2010 12:02:00 PM
LOL go by points allowed per defensive series, not by points allowed. When you score in 2 minutes, the other team is going to hold the ball longer and score more points. If you look at the defense with the CORRECT stats, you'll see Indy had one of the better defenses over the last 10 years.

I find it god damned amazing how short term your memory is. He has running backs, edgerrin james ring a bell? Addai is amazing. You have one of the best pass rushers in the league on that defense, and bob sanders. He has stars all around him and an offensive line that reminds me of the 90's cowboys in terms of protection.

yes i've looked at the numbers. Not that good. I don't GO entirely by stats like some, I VALUE performance in the clutch, hence why marino isn't my number 1.

What about in 03? When he threw 4 interceptions in the championship game? Wasn't that in his own stadium, i don't remember

What about in 04? When he couldn't score a touchdown in the divisional game he lost them?

He's 9-8 in the damn playoffs. I'm sorry but a 500 record might be AMAZING to you, a stat hound, to me? It means he's dan marino part 2. He's AMAZING in the regular season and chokes in the post season.

Hell in the superbowl he beat the worst superbowl team EVER in chicago, with rex grossman. I'd argue even THAT ring wasn't becuase of his play, but that chicago played HORRIBLY.

Look manning is a good player, but for ME? His post season performance just takes him out the "OMFG BEST PLAYER EVAR" idolation that you have for him.

I guess i just expect the best ever to win more than half of his playoff games?
 dennyden
Joined: 6/27/2007
Msg: 64
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Peyton is not the Greatest QB ever
Posted: 2/25/2010 1:58:46 PM
^^^ look man i never said he was "amazing" in the playoffs did i? no i didnt i just pointed out the fact that he was as bad as u make it out 2 be, thats all, i never said amazing. about the bears he didnt controlled who they played. yes james was a great back, but this year they where dead last in the nfl in rushing, i like addai, but they where still last, so whats ur point. iam not saying peyton is the best ever, hes my fav. but i dont say he is the best ever just one of the best ever, were he is on that list is open for debate, but he is on that list, even the best qbs ( montana, marino and bradshaw say that) so if u have a problem with that take it up with those hall of famers i just mentioned,lol. listen if u think qbs win and lose games for teams and its not a team effort that wins and losses games that shows ur lack of understanding the game, for god sakes brady needed a kicker to win all of his superbowls and thats not taking anything away from brady it just goes to the point on how teams win and not players. also u talk about bob sanders, well how many games did he miss over the last 3 years or so, better yet how many games did he play this year, oh wait none!!! by the way i didnt go by points allowed i went by yards allowed, that seems to be how the nfl ranks there d"s. like i said to the other guy next stop for manning after hes done playing is canton, first ballot. so hate on that bro. brady had a team that was 18-0 and lost the superbowl again thats not a kncok a brady at all just shows that its a team game.
 big pacific
Joined: 7/2/2009
Msg: 65
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Peyton is not the Greatest QB ever
Posted: 2/26/2010 6:05:03 AM
So you are going to put a qb who loses games single handedly in the playoffs in the "best ever" category? You and I differ there.

They were last in running because they pass 40 times a game this season. Look at their superbowl year.

I don't think a QB can win a game by himself, but he certainly can LOSE it by himself. Peyton has blown NUMEROUS playoff games with his picks, it's a team game but throwing 4 interceptions in a AFC championship and your team is done. HE lost that game not the team.

Brady needs a kicker, but he's like what 14-4 in the playoffs? With less talent on the receiving core until what 08? He didn't throw a pic to lose the superbowl, david tyree made an amazing catch off his helmet, Little different.

Yards allowed is just stupid, again due to the fact that the colts score so quickly, the teams have more possesions and therefore more yards, their "poor" defense by your standard is actually a testament to how good the offense is in the regular season. Don't be so obtuse.


Look, manning is amazing. He's one of the best i've ever seen, but you have to call a spade a spade, he's FAR better in the regular season, and for me, postseason performance is just more important. I don't need him to have a passer rating of 128, just not LOSE the game on bad decisions.
 dennyden
Joined: 6/27/2007
Msg: 66
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Peyton is not the Greatest QB ever
Posted: 2/26/2010 6:52:38 AM
^^^u love to bring up the fact of those 4 picks in the afc championship game, the point is he colts where not as good as the patriots, have u ever considered the fact that manning trew picks because the d didnt stop anyone? iam not blaming the d ,iam just making a point about the team game. u talk about brady not trowing a pick to lose a superbowl , well how about that pick he threw to marlin jackson at the end of the afc championship game after blowing a 24-7 lead at halftime, so was that brady sindle handely losing that game for the patriots or manning sindle handely winning one for the colts? yards allowed may be stupid but thats how the nfl is measured, i mean i guess if u measured any team by any stat then a team could be 2nd or 22nd if u use a stat that makes ur case for you,lol . but we both know that the colts havent had really good deffensives of the last 10 years. well i guess u differ with most of the world then if u dont put him in the best ever catorgory. like i ssaid most if not all hall of fame qbs see it the same way as i do, so i guess u differ with the best of the best who have ever played the game as well, i kinda like the company that is in my group,lol. also b4 u talked about players single handely losing games , well by ur logic u talked about e. james and then said is my short term memory gone( or something like that) well wasnt it e. james that fumbled the ball on the 1 yard line heading in for a td that pittsburgh pick up and then ended up scoring there self b4 the half, wasnt that the same game that the colts kicker vanderjagt missed them feild goals, wow so thats what makes up the vision of a single playing losing the game for there team.
 big pacific
Joined: 7/2/2009
Msg: 67
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Peyton is not the Greatest QB ever
Posted: 2/26/2010 8:24:36 AM
You can mention one game where there was one fumble or one pick.

Look at the games peyton has played in the playoffs and superbowl, You don't throw 4 pics because the D can't stop (especially when he threw some in the first half but whatever).

The colts not being as good as NE that year has nothing to do with 4 interceptions, those are on the QB. Period.

Brady did throw a bad ball in that game, in fact he's fallen quite sharply in his post season performances as of late.

I'd say the colts have had some great defenses when you look at it from an informed point of view, again the fantasy football stats are clouding your sense of reason. WATCH the games, then watch montana's and tell me they are in the same discussion.
 MrLove45
Joined: 1/31/2010
Msg: 68
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Peyton is not the Greatest QB ever
Posted: 2/26/2010 12:34:53 PM
I think that earlier poster summed it all up concerning farve and p manning....

now if they were to hand out an award for the greatest regular season quarterback and media darling then of course you would mentioned and possible award p manning and bret farve ....but damnit they sure as hell are not given any consideration for the greatest of all time nor greatest in the playoffs due to the numerous times they have been in the playoffs and have only 1 superbowl ring....one just like trent dilfers,my 3 redskins quarterbacks, and several others
 dennyden
Joined: 6/27/2007
Msg: 69
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Peyton is not the Greatest QB ever
Posted: 2/26/2010 1:02:51 PM
first of all bro i dont do fanasty football at all, so again i guess thats a informed point of view right. iam just going by the way the nfl ranks them thats all. u can look at the colts deffense any way u want to that doesnt make u right, u are just making them out to be better then they ever really where cause u think that makes ur point more right about peyton. either way he is a first ballot hall of famer bro, facts are facts and u cant dispute that one,lol. i never said that manning is a good as montana, i guess u couls agrue that since manning stats are much better but montana did wim 4 superbowls and i guess thats what matter most even thou great teams win superbowls not great players and montana played with a better cast then manning but thats my opinion on that. so brady fell off as of late, what do u mean that one year he has played, he lost the superbowl where he played well then got hurt and then there was last year, so when are u talking about?

@mr.love, just stop u have no clue what the hell u are talking about, u sumed it up when u blamed the media for mannings success. also so you would take dilfer and any of those qbs from the redskins over marino, well u might because u dont have a freaking clue about much of anything
 MrLove45
Joined: 1/31/2010
Msg: 70
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Peyton is not the Greatest QB ever
Posted: 2/26/2010 1:22:37 PM
[also so you would take dilfer and any of those qbs from the redskins over marino, well u might because u dont have a freaking clue about much of ]

now your just making isht up, I have never said or thought such a thing... all I said was that p manning and b farve was in the same category as a trent dilfer, any of the 3 redskins wining quarterbacks and any other 1 time superbowl winner but once again you took a huge leap of illogic and implying that I said something else....
 JackDiamond312
Joined: 1/21/2007
Msg: 71
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Peyton is not the Greatest QB ever
Posted: 2/27/2010 2:58:02 AM
The best QB will never be determined by Super Bowl wins. Teams win Super Bowls, not any single player. Some of the Greatest Basketball or baseball players never make it to their league finals. Teams run in cycles, some have a couple year-runs, some even more. But if your a great player on a team that is always second or third in a tough division, you can be one of the best players, on one of the best teams, but can't get out of your division. Look at Basketball. In the 90's if you didn't play for Chicago or Detroit in the east, it wasn't likely you would go to the finals. If you didn't play on the Lakers or Spurs in the last 10 years in the west, forget about it. The Laker or Celtics in the 80's. Look at Lebron James, one appearance, one loss in the finals against the Spurs in 2007 actually, Cleveland was blown out 4-0. He could possible be in the top ten best of all time. He hasn't had what Kobe, or Jordon, or Byrd, or Magic, Kareem, Russell, or others have had .... He doesn't have the Championship wins.... He has none, but this doesn't change how good he is. Same as Denver's Anthony and the Sun's Nash. Dwayne Wade has what? one appearance and win? Howard with Orlando, one appearance without a win.

Robert Horry.... I love the guy.... He's a great player and has 7 rings with Houston, the Lakers and the Spurs. No one is going to ever say he is the best ever, I hope he makes the Hall of Fame. But the point is, when it comes to playoffs and championships, he holds a lot of records.


Horry collected his seventh championship as a member of the Spurs in 2007. He is one of only nine players to have won seven or more championships in the NBA, and the only one who did not play on the 1960s Celtics. Robert Horry is one of only three players to win consecutive NBA Championships with two different teams. In 2005, he joined John Salley as the only players to win NBA rings with three different teams. He is the all-time leader in playoff games played, having surpassed Kareem Abdul-Jabbar during the 2008 playoffs.
Horry is second on the all-time list of three-pointers made in the playoffs, behind only Reggie Miller. He also holds the record for three-pointers all-time in the NBA Finals with 53, having eclipsed Michael Jordan's previous record of 42. He holds the NBA Playoffs record for most three-point field goals made in a game without a miss (7), against the Utah Jazz in Game 2 of the 1997 Western Conference Semifinals. Horry has regular season career averages of 7.2 points, 4.9 rebounds and 2.2 assists per game.
He is also played in the most playoff games in NBA, most number of steals in a half in Finals and most number of 3 points made in a quarter


Do you think he is better than Lebron? As much success Horry has had in championships, he will never be in the conversation of the best ever. He, as good as he is, was fortunate to be in the right place at the right time.

It's the same with QB's, they'll be judged by their talent, not their teams Super Bowl wins.
 dennyden
Joined: 6/27/2007
Msg: 72
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Peyton is not the Greatest QB ever
Posted: 2/27/2010 4:21:19 AM
^^ finally someone else who see the double standard that i have also pointed out. its funny how people say that people like farve and manning both only have 1 ring so it puts them inthe cat.of people like dilfer , but why dont they say people like young he only has 1 ring and he was great. anyway i could not agree more with the nba thing, lebron hasnt won crap but yet everyone says hes the best. if they use there own logic then there cant even be a discussion between whos better between kobe or lebron, how many championships does kobe have/how many for lebron? look at basball, my fav. player and in my opinion one of the 5 or 10 best ever doesn have a ring , hes never even made it to the world series and that player being ken grif. jr.
 broncsbuff
Joined: 4/18/2008
Msg: 73
Peyton is not the Greatest QB ever
Posted: 2/28/2010 11:25:22 AM
Manning could retire today and be a first ballot hall of famer.
 pleasureseeker44
Joined: 2/15/2010
Msg: 74
Peyton is not the Greatest QB ever
Posted: 3/1/2010 10:53:03 AM
my greatest qb'ever are based on how many championships they win, how important they are to their team and how do they control the team on the field and the ability to see things in defenses. Even though I dont like Peyton manning he will be one of the best ever but, there are many ahead of him yet. Montana, Bradshaw, Staubach, Elway, Aikman, Brady, Starr, Unitas these quarterbacks were qb's in a time that they didn't have communication from sideline to helmet ( accept Brady)
 seperate1
Joined: 1/21/2010
Msg: 75
Peyton is not the Greatest QB ever
Posted: 3/1/2010 8:39:00 PM
he is one of the best, the only modern qb who can claim to be better is brady; others can say they have more playoff wins, but they don't have a championship. It's really manning-rothelisberger and brady; everyone else hasn't done what they have in regards to records, numbers, team accomplishments or championships.

an he is the only guy who hasn't missed a game and been the starter from day one
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