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 indigovelvet
Joined: 5/9/2010
Msg: 101
Taken In Hand RelationshipPage 5 of 14    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14)
^^^^ Swannie, I feel like I've got 2 left feet as well at the moment...

message 100

I am not assertive enough in my leading! I would obviously be hopeless in any TIH relationship.


I need to practice being less in charge on the dancefloor... although one man nearly took my hand off last night, he gripped it so bloody tight!
 yorkslass
Joined: 4/30/2007
Msg: 102
Taken In Hand Relationship
Posted: 3/13/2012 8:21:19 AM
thats the most ridiculous thiong ive ever read why would anyone want that kind of relationship
 AwwwShucks
Joined: 8/16/2010
Msg: 103
Taken In Hand Relationship
Posted: 3/13/2012 10:44:59 AM
Based on the majority of my female friends who lived/were married to dominators and abusers I think it's probabloy more common than we think, albeit unintentionally.
 CharityTrue
Joined: 11/15/2011
Msg: 104
Taken In Hand Relationship
Posted: 3/13/2012 10:55:14 AM
@ tiddlorz I'm a big fan of Wilde too... of course, you must agree that the true genius of the man lies in the ability to so cleverly disguise the mocking of of his intended victim, that the object of his derision perceives the quote as a compliment and readily, quite proudly, uses it to describe himself.
Pure bliss, the unbridled arrogance of shallow, beautiful, callow, youth...
It never fails to deliver the same thing, generation after generation...

those TIH men you wrongly criticise, quite frankly are way ahead of you... they take the responsibility to support their wives and children physically, mentally, emotionally, finacially and morally... How are you in a position to assume you're a better man than them; sexually or otherwise? How can you even have an opinion on them, much less judge them?
Separating men from boys springs to mind...
You are only responsible for yourself, your ex-gf worked and you didn't want the responsibility of starting a family with her although it was her fondest wish... all you did was delay her and lower her chances of finding what she wants. My fondest wish for her is that she finds a great man to have a child with and that he'll look after her and their family and she can stay at home and enjoy her child rather than being forced back to work because she needs to... Funnily enough, someone like a TIH man... I think she'd be eternally grateful for him...
And you can carry on playing bondage game, bragging about your sexual prowess online and leave the grown folks to well, the grown up stuff... (But don't be surprised when the next gf, and the next all want children too... I'm afraid it's a strong biological urge in an awful lot of women...) Who knows, one day you might want a child yourself, in which case i hope you will consider following the example of your elders and betters....

msg 178 Although I enjoy most of your comments, very well thought out and reasoned, I must ask why would you say something so, so mean and disrespectful..
Too open to abuse by men, the power will go to too many of their heads, and if their brains aren t big enough to cope, well??!!
Why this assumption that men are generally stupid? Surely it would not be acceptable if a man said something like that about women...

Clearly this would not be popular to many people here, male or female...
Only for Alpha males would it be something easily accepted, (remember he takes sole financial responsibility and all the major decisions;) this is NOT the role for the faint of heart, nor for those lacking the skills to prevent financial crisis nor the confidence to spin a stranger on the floor at a dance class...
For women it would only appeal to those who trust their partners implicitly, and are not afraid to be vulnerable and dependent on their partners.
It is this dynamic that allows a completely different energy to flow between the couple that creates something very beautiful and positive... Her trust in him makes the man feels respected, powerful and his unchallenged masculinity makes him more behave in more virile ways therefore he becomes more attractive to his partner. Her attention fully focused on their children, home and him allows her to now develop, and dwell in the more soft, nuturing feminine side of her nature... At last, a puzzle that fits, a couple that complements each other and guess what, everyone is happier...
I know many of you will never believe it, the idea even makes you feel sick...
I also know some of you will start thinking about it too, just like I did...many years ago...

Indigo velvet, what a passionate name... The surrender comment was aimed at you... Argentine Tango, was there ever a MORE passionate demonstration of natural male sexual dominance over a woman? Our thoughts and feelings are NOT PC... Go with them, you might surprise yourself...Hang on and trust your partner... (Get a strong one!)
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 105
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History
Taken In Hand Relationship
Posted: 3/13/2012 11:15:59 AM
Only for Alpha males would it be something easily accepted,


I don't know if there's any such thing, but if there were, that 'standing' would be decided amongst his peers, in a still, male-dominated world, and not by some parasitic, cringing doormat, who's too frightened to question his ability, decisions, or taste.

I would imagine that the kind of bullies who relish this sort of 'arrangement', would be the exact opposite; someone who has been unable to achieve any sort of recognition or status based on merit, in the 'outside world', and took his frustrations out in his own tiny domain, as the "master" of the household.

AND you still didn't answer my question:
If the dominant male was unhappy with other men admiring your beauty, in public, [Med. Term: Jealous, and insecure twat], would you wear the burka, if it "pleased" him...??

 Lusipher
Joined: 9/7/2010
Msg: 106
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Taken In Hand Relationship
Posted: 3/13/2012 12:58:25 PM
I wouldn't like being in that type of relationship.

Not because I think there's anything wrong with it, but because I am assuming that if the woman has a role to fulfill, then the man would too... And it seems to be that of provider, protector, decision maker, etc

I wouldn't want that kind of responsibility over anyone (unless I had kids one day)
 CharityTrue
Joined: 11/15/2011
Msg: 107
Taken In Hand Relationship
Posted: 3/13/2012 2:27:26 PM
msg 107
I don't know if there's any such thing, but if there were, that 'standing' would be decided amongst his peers, in a still, male-dominated world, and not by some parasitic, cringing doormat, who's too frightened to question his ability, decisions, or taste.

Of course you don't... You are a beta.. and as such will always interpret, perceive, and visualize typical Alpha male behaviour in the most negative ways... .


I would imagine that the kind of bullies who relish this sort of 'arrangement', would be the exact opposite; someone who has been unable to achieve any sort of recognition or status based on merit, in the 'outside world', and took his frustrations out in his own tiny domain, as the "master" of the household.


See, here you are again, imagining that he's a bully, taking out frustrations when I plainly stated that it's the woman who wishes to relinquish control to him...
I realise it's tough for you to imagine, but I can assure you it does happen...


"The alpha male...The funny, often charming guy who can be at a party and hardly say a word, but his body language says everything. The guy who could most likely have sex with a good portion of the women, single or hitched, in attendance that very night (and of course no one would be the wiser). (but he wouldn't!!!)
On the other side, the beta male. He very well might be good looking, funny, etc., but after ten minutes or so in the presence of the alpha male he will try to break the alpha male's frame of mind. He does this by subtle jokes that seem innocent but are intended to degrade the alpha male's status in the eyes of others. If he is successful in making the alpha male lose his cool and take the ‘low road’, he himself might very well be take the alpha position, for the night at least. I have seen it and been on both sides of it too many times to deny its reality. After all, it is the alpha male's world and most of the people there are just players within it.
The beta male might also readily submit to the alpha male in a genuine fashion, however. The beta male will also willingly argue with other beta males in an attempt to make others think he is the alpha male. Little does he know that the alpha male is just grinning to himself on the inside at the whole spectacle much of the time, and the women the beta male wants are more embarrassed than impressed by the beta male's behavior. Beta males often also act nice in order to curry favor with women and the alpha males."
Human alpha, beta, and omega males: the reality http://www.takeninhand.com/node/328#comment-14772
Sound familiar? That's you, that is...


AND you still didn't answer my question:
If the dominant male was unhappy with other men admiring your beauty, in public, [Med. Term: Jealous, and insecure twat], would you wear the burka, if it "pleased" him...??


I didn't answer it because it was a ludicrous question...
I mean are you seriously asking would I wear a burkha if my partner asked me to?
Ok, I'll play along... "No, I would not.."
It wouldn't be necessary, I've never met an Alpha male who suffered from jealousy...

It's interesting, all the nasty traits you've projected onto this nameless Alpha male clearly, sadly, come from within... Beta-man strikes again... But don't worry, on the thread below there is a fascinating piece on how to become an Alpha male. It's very strong, heartfelt piece and I believe the author really nails it.
The essence of Alpha-dom is personal integrity.
"We fear dying without knowing what we really could have been" http://www.takeninhand.com/node/328#comment-14772 Here's an excerpt...
"First, this stuff about charisma defining alpha males is wrong. That's a symptom, and some people can fake it, but the genuine alpha is a creature of pure integrity, whether male or female, and would literally die or suffer horrific tortures or deprivation rather than betray their core principles or treasured friends. The enlightened of any society are alphas, and so are SOME of its rulers, but you will find more genuine alphas in monasteries, and getting along with each other too, than you will in a boardroom full of liars, cheats and thieves. "

I adore Alpha males (clearly), and add one observation; it's only betas who claim they don't exist... They know exactly who they are, and more importantly, so does everyone else....
 MikeWM
Joined: 2/7/2011
Msg: 108
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Taken In Hand Relationship
Posted: 3/13/2012 2:29:38 PM
I find it a bit laughable that we majoratively claim to be tolerant of some very varied types of relationships and yet so many people seem to baulk at what many and I am sure some anthropologists included would see as one of the more natural forms of relationship

Even where its not spoken and agreed on many couples straight or gay have this exact arrangement anyway

Many hetro couples have practically the complete opposite where the woman rules the roost and the bloke is like a neutered wuss

And theres every imagineable variant in between

Except in most cases its not discussed. agreed upon and the balance of power is often sought deviously, manipulatively and serrupticiously and as shown on these forums often from before the first date has even taken place

So a couple who proactively and openly knows and expresses exactly what they want from a partner and then seeks to find a match for that rather than someone who is incompatible then tries to manipulate them into what they REALLY wanted is ahead of the game from the outset

It doesnt matter what they want, whether others agree with it or not or whether an outside would like the arrangement. To me the far more imporant thing here is the person being described seems to know what they want and is openly pursuing it in very specific detail

Shame more people cant be equally as open and honest about what they want, expect and are prepared to offer to equally specific extents. I think that would massively reduce the amount of whingey whiney poor me threads on this place as well as the amount of short lived and disasterous relationships
 oldndazed
Joined: 10/12/2009
Msg: 109
Taken In Hand Relationship
Posted: 3/13/2012 3:29:18 PM
www.denversub.com/protocol.html
Reading some of the comments on this thread made me think of a simpering woman in a Dic*ensian novel wimpering 'if it pleases you sir' so I googled just that and came up with a website describing intricate instructions on how a sub has to demean herself.
I'm puzzled?
 flossiescratchwood
Joined: 2/23/2012
Msg: 110
Taken In Hand Relationship
Posted: 3/13/2012 3:45:36 PM
Well I guess if someone wants this sort of relationship hey go for it but beats me why.

On the subject of beating though charity I just read an article on there about obedience.The guy describes how he expects total obedience once he has made a decision .He then goes on to say how his wife had been suffering shoulder pain for a year but wouldn't go to the doctors.He gave her an ultimatum , go within two weeks or you get a paddling.She didn't go, she got a paddling.Ace- she has a sore shoulder and now she's got a very sore bum. That's violent abuse pure and simple.You can dress it up how you like- that the woman chooses this and is happy to accept the punishment.It's choice.But really you tell me how is this any different to all the other beaten and abused women who 'choose' to stay in abusive relationships because they deserve it/ he only does it when they've done something 'out of order'/ the man is so good to them in other ways/ they are grateful for small mercies/ the man has convinced them they won't find better( cos he's so goddamned wonderful) / he's a good provider.......... ad infinitum?

I think I'll stick with the omegas meself.
 BobHaro
Joined: 3/3/2011
Msg: 111
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Taken In Hand Relationship
Posted: 3/13/2012 3:54:38 PM
It might be contentious but in a supposedly balanced world where a supposedly dominant male has to put up with females who have been too indoctrinated with girl power drivel.
Well in truth both sides argue and no sod gets what they want. Are women seriously any better off, or do they just believe it because they have been told to do so by their 'peers'.

What's the point for a bloke if he feels he can't protect those whom he loves unless he has permission to do so...I mean like WTF.

This is one of the reasons people don't get too many dates on here....Modern life indoctrinates us until we are so full of shit there simply is no joy to be had even in the simplest of things.

Losing the baggage would be far more useful

And before you ask I do believe in equality for women...I just don't believe in all the hype and rubbish that they are bombarded with.



Bob.
 Geordie_Colin
Joined: 6/20/2011
Msg: 112
Taken In Hand Relationship
Posted: 3/13/2012 6:00:10 PM
Quite simple from a fair minded point of view to my mind.
Anything other than mutual respect and treatment will lead to splitting or unhappiness for at least one of the two.
Where is the positivity in such a relationship?
 CharityTrue
Joined: 11/15/2011
Msg: 113
Taken In Hand Relationship
Posted: 3/13/2012 6:31:30 PM
msg 111, 112
You'll never understand because you don't want to understand & it's not within you to understand.. You'd rather trawl for posts which appear to prove your point comparing it to abuse... Many prefer to argue, than even t-r-y understand something different, something that jeez you might even enjoy, if you opened your minds and ... whatever stay here, moan, whatever... Yeah it's all horrifying... You're right, dear...
..hell I'm not even getting paid for this...

1. Posts about personal experiences which are not indicative of all TIH relationships
2. I'm reading posts from dom/sub sites which have nothing to do with TIH and TIH takes a lot of time in clarifying how distinctly different they are to those things...
http://www.takeninhand.com/node/962
I must apologise for using the term dominant and submissive so much because I'm afraid they may have caused confusion... D and s are more descriptive of the attitudes rather than the actual behaviours in a TIH relationship. I think Alpha male is better, but even that requires extensive explanation and qualification...

If nothing else, I hope people here will read this because it will go a looong way in explaining why this is so attractive to the man and woman...
Good night, and good luck!
Why is the Taken In Hand dynamic so powerful?

We've been married a long time. When I started taking my wife in hand, it was as if someone had ignited a sexual nuclear bomb under us. We are a million times more aroused by each other than we have ever been. Why is the Taken In Hand dynamic so powerful?
For those drawn to this kind of relationship, a conventional equal relationship lacks something. It can be a bit grey, a bit stale, unexciting. Taking their relationship in a Taken In Hand direction brings vibrant colour and excitement to their lives. They connect at a deeper, more thrilling level. Sparks fly. Many report that they now feel that they are expressing a deep part of themselves to one another – a part that had previously lain dormant. Before, it may have felt as though they were going through the motions; now, they are seeing each other and connecting with each other on many different levels including at a level closer to their sexual core.
The husband in a taken in hand relationship feels more in control, more powerful, more manly even. He is free to be the man that he has always wanted to be but may have feared to be because we are all equal now. He has a means by which he can solve problems with his wife, nip fights in the bud, avoid emotional overload, and enjoy a thrilling sex life with the one he loves the most.
The wife in a taken in hand relationship feels excited by her husband's control. She now has a way of winning even when she is ‘losing’. She finds that little issues that seemed important enough to fight about before are no longer important. Her husband's control is a form of engagement, so if before she felt ignored or lonely, now she does not. She may be the least submissive woman you could ever meet, yet now she suddenly feels a desire to please her husband. She may have hated housework for 20 years and now suddenly she no longer finds it a burden and wants to do it for her more tidy husband. She may not have had that much interest in sex and now be thrilled and ready for it any time her husband wants it.
The Taken In Hand dynamic is powerful to the extent that it is an expression of the individuals' core personalities. If their sexualities are not this way inclined, Taken In Hand will do nothing for them, but if they are, it does indeed prove a very powerful connector, both sexually and otherwise.
Taken In Hand is (amongst other things) a way of using the sexual connection in solving a wide range of problems great and small in a marriage. It is a way of using the sexual connection to nurture and improve the relationship, which then makes it possible for the couple to solve an even greater range of probems.
Phyisologically, in my view, the reason sex is so powerful as a conduit by which to solve problems in a marriage is that it can channel stress and limbic system reactivity in a combination of both symathetic and parasympathetic nervous system activity that is ultimately soothing and pleasurable. When one's physiology is in this state one's thinking can be more rational than it would be were the limbic system reacting wildly and sending out fight-or-flight emergency messages that are hard to ignore.
Click here for the FAQ index.
Take the Taken In Hand tour
Mon, 22/09/2003 - 23:07 Login to post comments
I feel it is so powerful

I feel it is so powerful because it is the 'natural' roles for men and women. I believe most woman are highly aroused by what I call a "manly man", a man they know is not afraid to take control. Whether it be with them or other people in any given situation. I feel it empowers a man, makes him feel truly a man to be able to act on his natural instincts with no worries.
If we have a problem with a bill or something that has to be taken care of, I am not the one to do it. I do not know how to say no and get walked all over. To watch my husband deal with situations strongly and sternly is a huge turn on for me. To have him deal with me in this way is a bigger turn on. Just a look, or a word can melt me like heat does ice.
I used to fight these feeling of wanting to be taken care of, letting the man lead. A lot of baggage from how I was raised, that women don't need men, etc. No, I suppose we don't "need" them, but there is NOTHING wrong with wanting them and allowing them to lead us no matter what our mothers said.
I feel very taken care of, very pampered and very loved knowing my husband loves me enough to take the reins and lead our family. I am free to be who I am, a semi-submissive with a big bratty side who knows there are times I push the envelope too much and my hubby will rein me in when I can't rein myself in.
We are much happier, our entire family is much happier and I am aroused all the time it seems. Theres is no bigger turn on than a manly man for me.

Taken In Hand individuals are just that: individuals; they are not stereotypical
The men – kind and caring, not self-serving narcissists
The women – strong and competent, not weak or wimpy doormat types
You and me – ordinary people – your neighbour, your sister, the chap you work with, your best friend
The husband is more likely to think of himself as being in charge, wearing the pants, or as being a bit bossy, than to call himself ‘dominant’, though he may well rather enjoy his power over his wife
The wife is more likely to identify with Petruchio's Kate than with the word ‘submissive’, though she may well melt in response to her husband's bossiness
How does it feel?
Taken In Hand feels liberating
Taken In Hand feels natural and right
A deep feeling of peacefulness
Amazing communication
Problems seem easier to solve
Improved/intense sexual connection
TIH by an ardent feminist
http://www.takeninhand.com/node/255
 Geordie_Colin
Joined: 6/20/2011
Msg: 114
Taken In Hand Relationship
Posted: 3/13/2012 6:39:40 PM
^^^ Could you please reply to message 114 ?
 CharityTrue
Joined: 11/15/2011
Msg: 115
Taken In Hand Relationship
Posted: 3/13/2012 7:03:27 PM
Since you asked so nicely.... no, I've written so much, do go back and have a read, I think I provided a decent overview, as well as responses..
Why would you assume there's anything less than mutual respect?
Read the articles on the site written by the WOMEN...
Both are happy, happier than ever before...

Like Bob said, so many women would never allow themselves even the remotest possibility of enjoying something that doesn't fit in with what they've been conditioned to believe id the PC, feminist, equal way to behave within m/f relationships...
IME it doesn't work... most women I know respect and are attracted to a man who is stronger than them, NOT equal to them...
Regardless of what they say....lol...
 helen1981
Joined: 9/17/2007
Msg: 116
Taken In Hand Relationship
Posted: 3/13/2012 10:40:02 PM
Most women I know are attracted to someone equally strong as them. To suggest a man who doesn't want this kind of relationship isn't alpha male/strong is offensive to most men. A male can be strong opinionated, with leader like qualities and still get his own beer. I adore strong opinionated men but still like to share decisions.
 flossiescratchwood
Joined: 2/23/2012
Msg: 117
Taken In Hand Relationship
Posted: 3/14/2012 2:44:38 AM

msg 111, 112
You'll never understand because you don't want to understand & it's not within you to understand.. You'd rather trawl for posts which appear to prove your point comparing it to abuse... Many prefer to argue, than even t-r-y understand something different, something that jeez you might even enjoy, if you opened your minds and ... whatever stay here, moan, whatever... Yeah it's all horrifying... You're right, dear...


Yes you are right.I don't undserstand and I'm happy with that. I wouldn't enjoy it and I know that for a a fact as much as you know you do enjoy it. The blurb you copied says about 'expression of your core personalities and sexualities' That obviosuly works for you and that's great. Wouldn't for me and that's fine too.

But you're wrong. I didn't trawl that site or any other I have looked at in the past looking for negative stuff. I don't have a point to prove strangely enough. I'm not saying mine or anyone elses relationships are better than yours ( you however do appear to be saying that. There is an immense amount of superiority expressed with this alpha male and the women they choose gubbins.You all appear to be totally wonderful in all imaginable ways) but if people want to live under that illusion that's fine by me too. However teh consequences and punishment stuff struck me with a force.It was unavoidable.And I think fair enough to ask about.So if this was an example of
" 1. Posts about personal experiences which are not indicative of all TIH relationships" can I ask a direct question and ask you if you would be happy to accept a paddling because you chose to ignore your husband's order to go to the doctors?

Also I've been wondering how this pans out for the children in a family.How does the father treat the children ?, what do they learn from their parent's relationship and what implications that has for their relationships as children and adults?

I have a feeling I'm wasting my breath.But I am genuinely interested in the answers.
 MikeWM
Joined: 2/7/2011
Msg: 118
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History
Taken In Hand Relationship
Posted: 3/14/2012 2:51:11 AM
Isnt the idea of "sharing decisions" a bit of a misnomer?

However you dress it up if two people have different views on something its unlikely they will ever truly "share" the final decision, at best some form of compromise will occur

Which often isnt the "best" decision, but is just the one that lets both people feel some sense of victory or inclusion.

The best relationships I have seen tend to be ones where each person has their areas of responsibility where their word is final and the other, although allowed "input" doesnt go off into a childish huffy puff if theyre input is ignored either

This same mechanism works at every level of social interaction, business, government and infact in every type of organisation where any decisions need to be made

If you look at a football team, every person involved in that team doesnt try to equally share attacking, defending, midfield, goalkeeping and managing the team do they?

Nope, that would be nuts, and they would never stop trying to "share" every decision.

What happens instead is that each person is responsible for the things theyre best suited for and they share the overlaps, nothing more

Thats what makes for a winning team, and although theres only two members a relationship is SUPPOSED to be a team too
 punkadiddle
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 119
Taken In Hand Relationship
Posted: 3/14/2012 6:59:00 AM
There seem to be totally different interpretations of what love is. I can’t define what it is but I know what it isn’t. My husband still professed to love me even after I left - he didn’t though - that much I know. I can live my life very happy and fulfilled (in singledom if necessary - that’s the way I am) but I wouldn’t sell my identity just to feel what I thought was being loved. I’ll have a tempestuous relationship any day of the week.

I’m more than just a need to be looked after, a need to be loved and a need to be cared for (I can do those perfectly well for myself). Obviously no set up is right or wrong and “each to their own” as the saying goes - but to me a life relinquishing my identity and submitting to another is not a life but a living death really. So tih - certainly not for me.
 CharityTrue
Joined: 11/15/2011
Msg: 120
Taken In Hand Relationship
Posted: 3/14/2012 7:37:56 AM
@ helen msg 119
Most women I know are attracted to someone equally strong as them. To suggest a man who doesn't want this kind of relationship isn't alpha male/strong is offensive to most men. A male can be strong opinionated, with leader like qualities and still get his own beer. I adore strong opinionated men but still like to share decisions.

Okay, most men are stronger than most women. So you want a man who is not as strong as most other men, okay...Fill your boots, but let's talk sense please for a moment... You slap any man in the face as hard as you can. He will look at you...
Pretty much any man slaps you across the face as hard as he can, you will probably hit the floor covered in blood, bruised, loose tooth whatever... We're not equal.

That's why it has been drummed into generations of western men "Don't hit girls!" Because they can damage us a lot more easily. We are not equal in physical, mental or emotional strength; that is, most seem to be more in control of their emotions, pain tolerance & stamina. Any woman who believes that we are equal, must be surrounded by some very weak men. I personally don't know men like this, (my son is bigger and stronger than me now, calmer even..) (And for goodness' sake yes, childbirth hurts, so does working on a building site, and you are more likely to die on a building site... but you never hear men going on about it... )

I'm not suggesting any man who doesn't want this kind of relationship is not strong or Alpha, I submit the ONLY man who would agree to/want this kind of relationship is 99.99% likely to be an Alpha. It carries enormous responsibility and the confidence to successfully support and control an entire family. (I know many will bristle with the concept of "control", but it has to be done. Especially as the kids get older. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5r5YB-9a8fk this sums it up, the need for strong fathers...lol)

As for men being offended by what I am saying, well, the truth hurts... Sorry. Most men (and women) have been so brainwashed by feminist-thinking mothers, sisters, wives, workmates and the media they don't have the confidence, the will, or even feel they have the right to lead the woman in their relationship. Anything that asserts male authority is viewed with anger and suspicion.
A man is "not allowed" to lead, but if there's a noise in the house downstairs in the middle of the night, who's going down? Will the wife? No, She will exect her husband to face danger to protect her and the kids. Would you, as a woman, volunteer to go and face whatever it was? I mean surely, all things being equal, you should be willing to risk you life for him as readily as he would for you. but no, we all know the guy would unhesitatingly put his life on the line for his wife and children, even a strange woman or child. And because my fella would DIE for me and my kids, yes, i will fetch him a beer whenever he wants it... I think I'm getting a great deal...(so does he!)Because that's what most of them do... It's their nature and I for one am extremely appreciative of it...

WE ARE NOT EQUAL, NEVER HAVE BEEN, NEVER WILL BE...
And just because we are not equal does not mean men are so stupid that they will take that as carte blanche to start abusing us, not listen to our opinions and be partners in life. There's this real all or nothing fear in so many women here.. that if for one second, you share or trust your partner or any man, he's just waiting to crap all over you.
How insulting must that feel to men? We all are supposedly in this together...

Most people's view of leadership is so skewed, so infected by this utopian, fantasy concept of "equality", that they don't even realise it's like a rainbow whose end will never be found. We are not equal, none of us, even identical twins are not equal; one is always quieter, softer, more led by the other... this is nature. If Identical twins are not equal, how the hell can a man and woman be equal? It's a nonsense and those who pursue this ideal will end up sad, disappointed and lonely, not to mention cause enormous hurt to pretty much everyone around them because true equality can never be achieved. Equal pay for equal work, of course.

So the double-standard I see is: Men are allowed to exert their natural authority, dominance, leadership (which also means taking responsibility and putting one's ass on the line, in the line of fire) but only when it suits/doesn't offend the womenfolk.
Here's a little head's up. It won't work... Either he has his balls, or you keep 'em.
Let him do what he does naturally, ie., go in front a little ( to look out for you, silly) OR have that obedient gelding right by your side asking you your opinion on everything and never upsetting you, all things equal..
Me, I'm looking for a goddamned prize racehorse, everything intact and I will take everything that comes with it, the pace, the hard work, the commitment.
My silks and crop at the ready, giddy-up mofos!


There is an immense amount of superiority expressed with this alpha male and the women they choose gubbins.You all appear to be totally wonderful in all imaginable ways) but if people want to live under that illusion that's fine by me too.
The mechanics /dynamics of social hierarchy are not something I am willing to uphold, defend or (dis)prove. The concept of Alpha fe/males comes from observation of the behaviour animals like wolves whose pack/family dynamic translates effectively/favourably onto humans behaviour.
I am Alpha female and tend to choose Alpha males. Nobody told me i was, or said they were. It's simply what i honestly recognised as my life.
also, nobody told you to identify with omega males.
You chose to identify with and choose omega males.
You call it gubbins, living under an illusion, I call it life...
To me feminism and equality are much more nonsensical concepts...


However teh consequences and punishment stuff struck me with a force. It was unavoidable.And I think fair enough to ask about.So if this was an example of
" 1. Posts about personal experiences which are not indicative of all TIH relationships" can I ask a direct question and ask you if you would be happy to accept a paddling because you chose to ignore your husband's order to go to the doctors?
Also I've been wondering how this pans out for the children in a family.How does the father treat the children ?, what do they learn from their parent's relationship and what implications that has for their relationships as children and adults?


If I wanted a paddling, I would disobey, if I didn't, I would make the appointment, get it? She HAS a choice... She's left it getting worse for 6 mos (putting the smooth running of the household at risk if she needs surgery or something worse, I might add, naughty girl!) husband is taking the situation in hand, her, by forcing her to do something she should have done ages ago. Some women need/want this... Either way it'll get done soon, thanks to the husband's firmness...
All children benefit from seeing loving , warm, affectionate, communicative parents.
I imagine the children will benefit greatly from growing up with a strong, loving male presence in the house. Especially the girl... She will likely base her future partners on her Dad. Her's is responsible, strong, loving, not able to be manipulated, patient. With the son, he sees women are to be protected, looked after, treated with respect.
P.S. I rather doubt the children would witness the paddling... It's kind of a mummies and daddies game Not abuse, not violence something they both want and enjoy...

kudos to mikewm on both posts on this thread.
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 121
view profile
History
Taken In Hand Relationship
Posted: 3/14/2012 10:35:31 AM
Of course you don't... You are a beta.. and as such will always interpret, perceive, and visualize typical Alpha male behaviour in the most negative ways... .

Ah. I see. So anyone who disagrees with this arrangement is a "beta male.".? If I believed in such drivel, that would be an ad hominem attack, and against the forum rules, so it's lucky for you, I don't subscribe to this nonsense.

So many logical fallacies, I hardly know where to start.....
I must say I'm surprised, that a seemingly strong and eloquent woman, would be prepared to forfeit the right to an opinion, in a notionally balanced relationship, and defer total control, to some self-declared "alpha male".
Perhaps I should just 'cut to the chase', and tell you to "STFU., and 'assume the position!!"...?
A female has a brain, but has decided to declare it "unconditionally inferior", to that of her (male?) partner.?
IMO That's just weird.

I can understand the attraction of such a belief/delusion. Women who believe in this sh1t, are probably also likely to believe themselves to be the "alpha female", after all, clearly the "alpha-male" would only ever select their counterparts.? At least, you'd have to hope so, eh..?
It's self-aggrandising, delusional nonsense.
The only place such people are "elevated in status", is in their own heads.

The concept of "alpha male" comes from the rest of the animal kingdom, where males compete for breeding rights. It applies to wolves, lions, walrus, and some primates etc.
Alpha males are characterised by their physical strength. It is established, usually, by mortal combat, and a fight to the death, between rivals. In any group, there can be only one "alpha".

And therein lies the problem, in human societies, not only do social groups overlap, but men no longer fight to the death, to compete for females (Usually), well anyway, not since it was declared "illegal" to kill a rival, for "looking at my bird funny"..
(And we also no longer murder the offspring of former partners either.)

The "alpha male" in human societies, is nothing more than an urban myth, perpetuated by bullies, as some justification for their unacceptable behaviour.
Cite a single, scientific peer-reviewed study, proving the existence of the "alpha male" in any advanced human society.?

Who would "declare" such a thing.>?
You've already admitted, that beta males deny the existence of such a phenomenon.
... So "Alpha males" are 'self-declared'..>? How very 'convenient' [/sarcasm] ....

Some men just don't feel the need to declare themselves "alphas", just as some men don't feel the need to declare themselves more "intelligent", or more "attractive".
Some men feel that such judgements are best left to others.
Some men take the view, that the only person's behaviour they can control, is their own.

Only desperately insecure people 'need' to 'prove' themselves, IMO., oh, wait... does that make me an "alpha"..>?

I adore Alpha males (clearly), and add one observation; it's only betas who claim they don't exist... They know exactly who they are, and more importantly, so does everyone else....

I haven't seen such 'circular reasoning', since; "god exists, because the bible says so"

You can post as much of the self-serving propaganda from that site, as you like.
The only thing it "proves", is the gullibility of the believers, in such "Stockholm Syndrome" inspired drivel .

Such 'arrangements are a 'throw-back' to our primitive past, where the woman provides sex- on-demand, regardless of her own feelings, and "knows her place".
A complete reversal, of any gains made in 'sexual equality'.
Similar to the primitive views of many orthodox religions, it's this sort of thinking, which inspired the burka.
Perhaps you also feel that; "those silly women shouldn't be 'allowed' to vote/drive/dress inappropriately"...?

The real 'clue', is in the title; "Taken in hand", which implies control, by means of violence.
That really is quite sickening.

I'm heartened that the majority of enlightened, intelligent females in this discussion, have rejected such misogynistic thinking.
I would hope that any future partner, would still "allow you" to post.

You have a brain, you really don't need anyone's 'permission', to use it.
Boudica was nobody's b1tch.

I didn't answer it because it was a ludicrous question...
I mean are you seriously asking would I wear a burkha if my partner asked me to?
Ok, I'll play along... "No, I would not.."
It wouldn't be necessary, I've never met an Alpha male who suffered from jealousy...


No true Scotsman is an informal logical fallacy, an ad hoc attempt to retain an unreasoned assertion.[1] When faced with a counterexample to a universal claim, rather than denying the counterexample or rejecting the original universal claim, this fallacy modifies the subject of the assertion to exclude the specific case or others like it by rhetoric, without reference to any specific objective rule.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_scotsman

There's no such thing as a human "alpha male", (we're not gorillas) but if there were, he wouldn't need to 'prove it', by bullying his wife, or anyone else.

Now shut up, and make my dinner!
*Slap* "Yes dear", <----That's you, that is...
 flossiescratchwood
Joined: 2/23/2012
Msg: 122
Taken In Hand Relationship
Posted: 3/14/2012 12:23:44 PM
also, nobody told you to identify with omega males.
You chose to identify with and choose omega males.
You call it gubbins, living under an illusion, I call it life...


Man, I don't identify with those loser omegas .What do you take me for?!

...........Nah I choose not to choose anyone based on a spurious label. I also choose not to brag about the high status of my partner because it means jackshit to me.And that sort of bragging tends to makes a woman look a bit silly in the eyes of most( of course prob not in the eyes of the other alphas- now there's a surprise!)

I don't call it living under an illusion( though there's just the possibility) .I called your belief in yours and the Alpha blokies superiority over every other relationship in the book an illusion.' lower order' males do all the good stuff for their partners and children, without the 'I'm the boss of you' stuff, without the need to demand or expect obedience and without the need to tell the world.

Out of curiosity what makes you an Alpha female Charity?
 CharityTrue
Joined: 11/15/2011
Msg: 123
Taken In Hand Relationship
Posted: 3/14/2012 1:59:21 PM
Okay, so you are one of those offended at not being viewed as Alpha...
helen1981, you were right...


Ah. I see. So anyone who disagrees with this arrangement is a "beta male.".? If I believed in such drivel, that would be an ad hominem attack, and against the forum rules, so it's lucky for you, I don't subscribe to this nonsense.


Yes, lucky for me...and thank you for not reporting me!
(BTW Running for help or validation= typical beta behaviour)

If you are so certain Alphas, betas etc. do NOT exist, why have you spent any time or energy at all denying their existence? And then contradicting yourself by saying they are horrible bullies and the women who like them are weak, cringing, doormats?
You've even posted references!=Typical beta behaviour



The "alpha male" in human societies, is nothing more than an urban myth, perpetuated by bullies, as some justification for their unacceptable behaviour.
Cite a single, scientific peer-reviewed study, proving the existence of the "alpha male" in any advanced human society.?


So I am a bully now? Um, no, lol I don't need a scientific peer-reviewed study. That is exactly how a beta might justify a thing's existence, external references. I take a more practical approach. See the reliance on outside references, first the moderators, then demanding I cite a scientific reference...= Typical beta behaviour


Only desperately insecure people 'need' to 'prove' themselves, IMO., oh, wait... does that make me an "alpha"..>?

I'm sorry hon, but no...


Some men just don't feel the need to declare themselves "alphas", just as some men don't feel the need to declare themselves more "intelligent", or more "attractive".

Agreed, and most don't... I do declare them as such, and the other women do as well... Obviously you live in another universe where social groups behave differently than anywhere I've been... Okay...
You haven't really read my posts, and that's okay...
For whatever reason, this Alpha thing has rattled you... and for that I am truly sorry...
have it your way, Jo...

I have an Alpha friend who looked at this, he laughed and said who cares...
Typical Alpha, gotta love 'em....




Man, I don't identify with those loser omegas .What do you take me for?!

msg 112, and I quote;
"I think I'll stick with the omegas meself."

I don't take you for anything... I just read what you said...

If i have offended you in some way here, let me offer my apologies... That has not been my intention...
(BTW I don't, nor would I ever refer to people as losers...)

I posted on this thread because of the overwhelming negative responses to the TIH model. Being a proponent of it, defending it, is NOT the same as "belief in its superiority over all others". In fact, I have repeatedly stated that it's NOT for everyone. Only for those it appeals to on some deep, perhaps untapped level. Many other people have had and posted very prejudicial views against it, without grounds, based on lies and misconceptions... I have tried to offer another view, feel free to take it or leave it...
And no, I'm not going to tell you why I am an Alpha female so you can make this even more personal and nasty than it's beginning to get. It is what it is...
 flossiescratchwood
Joined: 2/23/2012
Msg: 124
Taken In Hand Relationship
Posted: 3/14/2012 2:43:09 PM
Charity it was a joke. The omegas were identified all over that site as the losers.I was making a joke- I'll stick with the losers. "What do you take me for?" even had a laughing smilie.

ne'er mind

I've been in one or two social groups where all the women were declaring the supreme and almighty alpharishness of their blokes. I scarpered.What did I have to offer about my then fella? He walks around sainsburys with bare feet and nearly chopped his leg off with a chainsaw.But he's very nice to the old lady next door. Which probably proves your point.I'm doomed I tell ya, forever loving beta( even those poor old omega) blokes.

p.s love that alpha men don't need to prove they're not talking rot.
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 125
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History
Taken In Hand Relationship
Posted: 3/14/2012 4:35:52 PM

If you are so certain Alphas, betas etc. do NOT exist, why have you spent any time or energy at all denying their existence?

Well, d'uh... because some people insist that they do exist, and then erroneously base their philosophy around that mythology. It's the same with religion.
People are free to believe anything they like, but they can't expect validation, from those of us who live with reality, and facts.

And then contradicting yourself by saying they are horrible bullies

Acknowledging that bullies exist, doesn't "contradict" my dismissal of the alpha male myth, bullies exist, "alpha males" don't.

and the women who like them are weak, cringing, doormats?

That is what such servitude implies.
But from what I've read, and what you've said, perhaps it's really little more than a 'lifestyle' extension of some existing 'bedroom arrangement', dressed up as something slightly "better".
It's really little more than a game. It's slightly worrying that a common thread seems to be financial reliance on the master of the household. (And all of the 'implications' of that arrangement) That makes me wonder just how capable such women would be, if left to their own devices.
It's nobodies business but theirs, I suppose.
But we are discussing it, so we're all entitled to our opinions....

So I am a bully now? Um, no, lol I don't need a scientific peer-reviewed study. That is exactly how a beta might justify a thing's existence, external references. I take a more practical approach. See the reliance on outside references, first the moderators, then demanding I cite a scientific reference...= Typical beta behaviour

No, not "Typical beta behaviour", but typical of a person who seeks corroborating evidence, before they simply accept someone else's say-so, on the existence of something.

I would say "Typical beta behaviour" was someone who is prepared to become unquestioningly subservient to another person, based simply on some archaic, superstitious "gender roles", decided at a time in history, when humanity knew no better. Surely such subservience would hardly be considered indicative of any alleged "alpha" status..?


Agreed, and most don't... I do declare them as such, and the other women do as well... Obviously you live in another universe where social groups behave differently than anywhere I've been... Okay...

I live in a universe where I, and most others people, laugh at those who declare themselves and their partners to be "alpha", but require police protection, and security measures, to maintain their positions, because they really wouldn't last 5 minutes, on merit, ability, or strength alone. "All show, and no go".

I dare say there are many women, who like to delude themselves, that the 'catch' they've 'landed', is the greatest ever, and the men too, probably.
The reality is probably more likely to be simply the person who fancied you...
Though we all profess to have 'high standards'..

The kinds of 'yuppies', who declare themselves to be "alpha", based on some "success in the city", or elsewhere, are most likely the same kind kind of dimwits, who select as their mates, the most vacuous, and compliant of partners, as long as they "look good"..
It doesn't matter what they think, or even IF they think.

The role of the woman in such an arrangement, is simply public decoration. They are nothing more than an expensive 'accessory', to the men concerned.. When their looks fade, and surgery is no longer financially viable, they will be discarded, for a more attractive, and newer looking model.

The wishes of the so-called, self-appointed, "alpha-females", don't come into the choices of the self-declared "Alpha males" before such a relationships begins, any more than they will after.
A truly "Alpha-female" smacks of "high maintenance" to me, he's much more likely to save himself the grief, and choose a 'footballer's wife' type, who's as dumb as a brush.

There's some irony in a self-proclaimed "alpha-anything" stating that they're willing to submit, so completely, regardless of gender.
A truly "alpha" person wouldn't, by their own ridiculous definitions.
But as you've pretty much conceded that we men "know best", are the "strongest", and are generally your (women's) "superior", I guess you'll just have to take my word, for that.....
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