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Show ALL Forums  > Relationships  > Kids Paternity (DNA) test - Do it secretly or inform the wife?      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 --Zen--
Joined: 6/29/2011
Msg: 824
Kids Paternity (DNA) test - Do it secretly or inform the wife?Page 34 of 34    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34)
You cannot legislate for a procedure that carries the risk of abortion.

Risk is minimal with cvs and there are no risks with fetal cell dna tests. With more research and technological development it should be possible to preform tests earlier into pregnancy. This is essential for fathers and mothers rights.


You cannot force a woman to reveal potential paternity candidates.

Unless current child support laws are modified, it should be mandatory.


You cannot force men to provide samples every time a woman names them as a potential candidate.

If potential father is unwilling, he needs to know. If potential father is willing, he needs to know.
 mak_68
Joined: 2/17/2012
Msg: 825
Kids Paternity (DNA) test - Do it secretly or inform the wife?
Posted: 3/3/2012 10:08:08 AM
Why did you take my post out of the context of in vitro testing?

In vitro testing is unnecessary to establish parental dna, as I have shown. Besides, your last few posts didn't mention anything about in vitro, simply paternity testing. Please show where you specifically mentioned in vitro...

Every man should have the right to know whether a child is his or not, just like a woman knows the child is hers. Don't you think he should have the choice of raising some other man's child, if it came to that?


 Jac_the_Gripper
Joined: 1/17/2012
Msg: 826
Kids Paternity (DNA) test - Do it secretly or inform the wife?
Posted: 3/3/2012 10:46:14 AM

Risk is minimal with cvs and there are no risks with fetal cell dna tests. With more research and technological development it should be possible to preform tests earlier into pregnancy. This is essential for fathers and mothers rights.

According to the bit of googling I did, CVS has twice the risk of amniocentesis. Neither are a procedure is pleasant and many women would not agree to the procedure. It kinda freaks us out jeopardising our babies lives, even for medical reasons.

I hadn't heard of the non-invasive foetal cell test, so I can't see a problem with that as a matter of choice.

Unless current child support laws are modified, it should be mandatory.

No, you can't force a woman to reveal paternity. Some women don't know, as in the case of rohypnol. Rohypnol is metabolised very quickly, so its tricky to prove in the first place. Any woman who doesn't wish to reveal paternity can say she was drunk, rohypnoled, hit over the head, blah, blah, blah. You can't demand that a woman who has been raped by her father, brother, friend, stranger, reveal that information.

The enforcement is open to abuse from the woman's side. If a woman has no funding for testing, you're opening the door for her naming every Tom,****and Harry and using up public resources, possibly in order to avoid revealing the true father, or possibly just to put a spanner in the works of a few marriages. How would you force a woman to pick at least one positive test when she may not know? Multiple partners, gang rape, multiple anonymous customers,a quick knee trembler up against the bus shelter with a stranger.

You cannot threaten with removing benefits for children, or removing the children. Those Draconian methods would make the children suffer primarily.

What would you like to see changed about current child support laws?

If potential father is unwilling, he needs to know. If potential father is willing, he needs to know.

If a woman names a hundred potentials, or a village full of women all name one man out of spite, how are you going to deal with this practically and financially?

An unwilling father, who is likely to be a poor parent, a poor source of financial support and use the information for harm maybe falls into the category of "let sleeping dogs lie". First and foremost, we have to protect children and act in their best interests.
 Jac_the_Gripper
Joined: 1/17/2012
Msg: 827
Kids Paternity (DNA) test - Do it secretly or inform the wife?
Posted: 3/3/2012 10:49:13 AM

Please show where you specifically mentioned in vitro...

You quoted me from msg 822, where I quoted Zen's post regarding in vitro paternity testing, if you'd like to check.
 mak_68
Joined: 2/17/2012
Msg: 828
Kids Paternity (DNA) test - Do it secretly or inform the wife?
Posted: 3/3/2012 11:06:16 AM
You quoted me from msg 822, where I quoted Zen's post regarding in vitro paternity testing, if you'd like to check.

Ah, I see it, thanks.
I really don't see the necessity of establishing paternity before birth occurs. Therefore a cheek swab, or heel prick should suffice.

But I think paternity should be established before birth certificates are signed/registered.
I wonder how much of a problem it would be to allow for a window of time, for dna testing, before signing.. or not, as the case may be.


No, you can't force a woman to reveal paternity.

I believe that the husband can be excluded as the father with only his and the child's dna. It would seem the discovery of who is the father is a somewhat different kettle of fish.

 Jac_the_Gripper
Joined: 1/17/2012
Msg: 829
Kids Paternity (DNA) test - Do it secretly or inform the wife?
Posted: 3/3/2012 11:48:53 AM
I believe that the husband can be excluded as the father with only his and the child's dna. It would seem the discovery of who is the father is a somewhat different kettle of fish.

In Britain the father can only go on the birth certificate if he is present and agrees, or possibly if there is DNA proof in his absence, I'm not sure on that bit.

If paternity is established, or disproved, the birth certificate can be legally changed, just as birth certificates can be changed for other reasons, like a change of name, or gender.

If you want to force the issue of child maintenance with an unwilling father, he has to either admit paternity, or one party has to request a test.

In the case of my daughter's father, he readily admits paternity, but due to a loophole (he's self-employed and so money can't be taken directly out of a wage packet in the face of his non-compliance), she's just short of her 18th birthday and I'm still trying to get some of the folding stuff out of him. God only knows I could do with the money, but its just one of those things. Intrinsic to the Child Support Agency system are certain rules, or non-requirements that protect me and my child, so I don't feel able to be bitter that I've fallen foul to it as well. I'd rather have no money, but have protection for myself, my child and other women and children, than have the money, but no protection.

In the case of my granddaughter, only my daughter is on the birth certificate and without going into detail, that is absolutely in the best interests of both of them, without a shadow of a doubt.

Edit to add: Here I think you have at least one month, possible as much as three before you have to register a birth. I can't remember, but either way, enough time to get a post natal paternity test done.
 cap_n_mORGAN
Joined: 7/3/2009
Msg: 830
Kids Paternity (DNA) test - Do it secretly or inform the wife?
Posted: 3/3/2012 11:53:50 AM

What would you like to see changed about current child support laws?


I believe most men would like to see the laws be equal.

That child support actually be for the child and not to supplement the mothers income.

I raised two of my children w/o any child support mandated by the courts from the mothers.

Not that it mattered as I took the money I was paying before I got custody and saved it for one year.

I was able to provide considerably more for my children than their mothers had with the same money and at the end of one year had enough money left over to take a extended vacation in any country in the world I wanted to choose.

As far as the OP's question there is no doubt that he and any man has the right to perform a paternity test on a child that is supposedly his. W/o telling anyone.

As shown earlier in this thread there are around 1500 children born in the US every day that are not the child of the father.

Which shows this is a very serious problem that receives no press or efforts to brings these facts to light.

I had a vasectomy in 04 in 08 after my divorce a lady I had dated for a couple of months told me she was pregnant. When I asked her who the father was she got all indignant and said I was.

After I informed her of my vasectomy the look on her face went from indignant to shame.

I have read about this same event from many other men here in the forums.

Through out this thread the man that just wants to know if the child his wife bore was actually his, has been vilified just because he wants a test the law says he has a right to have.

Should the welfare of the children be first and foremost?
Of course it should however it should never be at the cost of a person that had nothing to do with bringing the child into this world.

If a woman is so depraved as to get pregnant by a man other than her husband she should be the responsible party..... whether she wishes to expose the true father or not.

If she does then a test should be done to confirm he is the father, then he should be held accountable along with her.
 --Zen--
Joined: 6/29/2011
Msg: 831
Kids Paternity (DNA) test - Do it secretly or inform the wife?
Posted: 3/3/2012 12:35:32 PM
You can't demand that a woman who has been raped by her father, brother, friend, stranger, reveal that information.

This is exactly why it should be mandatory and state funded. Rape is a serious crime and serious accusation. No one likes their home turned into crime scene after a robbery but we submit because withholding evidence is a crime. This type of law will bring justice to victims and reduce false rape accusations.


using up public resources

Who said anything about public resources? It's her body. She can't pay, she can't play with legal system. Obviously at 13 weeks she already made a decision to keep the child. Naturally this apply only to legally bound couples.


Those Draconian methods would make the children suffer primarily.

Existing laws make the children suffer more.


An unwilling father, who is likely to be a poor parent, a poor source of financial support

An unwilling father or mother of the unborn baby should not be a parent. Simple as that. They should not have any rights or responsibilities toward the child.
 Jac_the_Gripper
Joined: 1/17/2012
Msg: 832
Kids Paternity (DNA) test - Do it secretly or inform the wife?
Posted: 3/3/2012 12:40:20 PM

Should the welfare of the children be first and foremost?

To my mind there are many factors that contribute to the welfare of the child, one of them being that they either live with parents who have a happy, healthy relationship, or parents who live separately. In the OP's scenario he's basically saying there is no trust in the relationship based on his possibly ill-informed concept of probability. That's not a healthy environment for a child to grow up in.

Its very common for men to resent paying child support and make assumptions that their money is spent by the mother on herself. On the few occasions I did get a crust thrown my way, I did eat it - it wasn't my daughter that was going hungry. It's always me who went without, which of course he was totally confident would be the case.

Paying child maintenance is something that a lot of blokes need to come to terms with.
 cap_n_mORGAN
Joined: 7/3/2009
Msg: 833
Kids Paternity (DNA) test - Do it secretly or inform the wife?
Posted: 3/3/2012 12:51:20 PM

Its very common for men to resent paying child support and make assumptions that their money is spent by the mother on herself. On the few occasions I did get a crust thrown my way, I did eat it - it wasn't my daughter that was going hungry. It's always me who went without, which of course he was totally confident would be the case.


I doubt they would resent it if it was actually spent on the child. I know I didn't mind providing for mine and as I said I was able to provide more for them with way less money than the child support I was ordered to pay.

That can only mean the mothers were not spending the money on our children.

If they had there is no way I would have had so much left over after that first year I had custody.


Paying child maintenance is something that a lot of blokes need to come to terms with.


If a bloke as you say has a problem with paying a realistic amount of support for his child then yes he needs some counselling for that.

However when a bloke is paying so much "child support" that he is not able to live a decent life then maybe the system needs to looked at.

Especially if he is paying so much that he is in the poor house while his ex is living far above her means even though the child sees very little of "support".
 ixtlan09
Joined: 12/12/2010
Msg: 834
Kids Paternity (DNA) test - Do it secretly or inform the wife?
Posted: 3/3/2012 6:09:28 PM
According to the last studies I read, if every guy were to secretly have his kids tested, about 25% of the children would turn out to have a different dad. Sad, eh?

But, as Chris Rock says, women have always told the biggest lie: "The baby is yours.".
 ixtlan09
Joined: 12/12/2010
Msg: 835
Kids Paternity (DNA) test - Do it secretly or inform the wife?
Posted: 3/3/2012 6:11:21 PM
One other thing. You say partner. Is this his wife? I ask, because in quite a few states, if you are married to a woman and she has a baby, you are financially responsible for the child, whether or not you are the biological father.

Pretty screwed up, isn't it?
 cooldog65
Joined: 6/27/2011
Msg: 836
view profile
History
Kids Paternity (DNA) test - Do it secretly or inform the wife?
Posted: 3/3/2012 8:11:58 PM
@mjyawn67: Long time no see my friend. Message 831 & 834 on the money. The current laws seem to make only one side accountable on this issue. As you said accountability goes both ways. Great post.

@Maffers: Your story also proves the system needs an overhaul.
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