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Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?      Home login  
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 bipolarintense
Joined: 4/2/2011
Msg: 26
What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?Page 2 of 4    (1, 2, 3, 4)
In the year 6565 . . if man is still alive????

Damn that would make a catchy tune.


Very good. Thanks for fleshing that out for me. But... I don't see an argument that relates to the question.

This is an open forum and your question can pretty much be interpreted in any manner the posters wish unfortunately.
 _TALL_IQ2_
Joined: 2/10/2010
Msg: 27
What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?
Posted: 5/1/2011 8:03:18 AM

What are you going to accomplish by satisfying your own arbitrary and silly desires?


Certainly much more than you contemplating your navel with your bud..

If you are going to search for the meaning of life, stop clouding your consciousness with cannabis and start finding your purpose by helping people around you..
 FrankNStein902
Joined: 12/26/2009
Msg: 28
What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?
Posted: 5/1/2011 9:32:16 AM
What have we achieved as human beings that's worth all the pain and suffering we create in the world?...

Language which begot the evolution of communication. (IMO the continued evolution of which will start to solve many of the worlds problems as we become more globally aware)




...Specifically all the pain and suffering we direct towards other sentient creatures, including other human beings.

Name one living things that does not cause pain and or suffering to any other living things.
 tatjana25
Joined: 2/15/2010
Msg: 29
What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?
Posted: 5/1/2011 12:48:24 PM
pof.com


Possibly?
 Paddy_o_Lantern
Joined: 12/9/2009
Msg: 30
What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?
Posted: 5/1/2011 8:35:01 PM
Well the US has the dead body of Osama Bin Ladin - how much pain and suffering was involved in accomplishing that and how much retaliation from extremist followers will we see in the next few weeks and months. I can't believe how the US media is joyfully rubbing their hands at this news - have they never heard the expression "Don't poke the Bear"
 NothingLeftToBurn
Joined: 6/11/2007
Msg: 31
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What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?
Posted: 5/1/2011 9:16:30 PM
motown cowgirl - Maybe I'm just too sensitive. Wish I could out of sight out of mind everything. But considering the human race and their basic nature, which is basically "all about me" I don't expect anyone to lay down and die. But hey, great idea nonetheless. That would certainly equate to less suffering. And even if you write off the past several billion years of carnage. Moving forward, we're not really doing $hit here anyway. Save for imposed desires and addictions.


Name one living things that does not cause pain and or suffering to any other living things.


The reality is that all life is cruel and the strongest feed on the weakest. That's DNA. It would be nice to hold conscious human beings to a different standard, but what can you do? We're biological reckless motherf(_)ckers who act on our desires, become addicted, consume and reproduce.
 scorpiomover
Joined: 4/19/2007
Msg: 32
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What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?
Posted: 5/2/2011 1:30:27 AM

What have we achieved as human beings that's worth all the pain and suffering we create in the world? Specifically all the pain and suffering we direct towards other sentient creatures, including other human beings.
Sorry to disillusion you, but there really isn't anything.

What can we do? We could wipe ourselves out. But we are here now. We have a built-in desire to live, and to succeed, and to have kids, and to leave a permanent reminder of our existence. So humans are not going to turn over and die willingly, even if it is in the interest of every species in the universe to do so.

Blame that old survival instinct.
 motown cowgirl
Joined: 6/30/2010
Msg: 33
What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?
Posted: 5/2/2011 4:03:51 AM
motown cowgirl - Maybe I'm just too sensitive.

then i can only offer the same advice m. gandhi would give.... "be the change you want to see in the world."


Wish I could out of sight out of mind everything. But considering the human race and their basic nature, which is basically "all about me" I don't expect anyone to lay down and die. But hey, great idea nonetheless.

congratulations, you've managed to be negative and self-important at the same time. usually the only people who can pull that off with a straight face are poets. what you are basically saying is, i am SO far above this world and all it contains... and it pains me to constantly notice just how superior i am. guess what... you are all about you too, you just manage to congratulate yourself while berating the entire course of human history in the process. get over yourself! are you in moral pain because others are suffering? i doubt it, otherwise you would have posted the photos of your stigmata. i think you are secretly in love with the idea of comparing the thin air on your pedestal with the unsatisfactory behavior of a million nameless and faceless others called "humanity".


That would certainly equate to less suffering. And even if you write off the past several billion years of carnage. Moving forward, we're not really doing $hit here anyway. Save for imposed desires and addictions.

wow you're a real glass half empty kinda guy, huh? i hate to break the news to you, but as long as living entities are free to think their own thoughts and pursue their own desires, there will be supreme joy and there will be absurd suffering, and every imaginable and unimaginable state in between.


The reality is that all life is cruel and the strongest feed on the weakest. That's DNA. It would be nice to hold conscious human beings to a different standard, but what can you do? We're biological reckless motherf(_)ckers who act on our desires, become addicted, consume and reproduce.

who does not act on their desires? you do it, bears do it, worms do it, plants do it. i think if we could find a way to just eliminate the entire universe, that would somehow make you happy.
 agapos
Joined: 4/24/2011
Msg: 34
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What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?
Posted: 5/2/2011 2:45:28 PM
Question: What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?


Answer: The establishment of the Holy Roman Catholic Church
 agapos
Joined: 4/24/2011
Msg: 35
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What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?
Posted: 5/2/2011 2:46:44 PM
Got another one:

scum.cum
 Paddy_o_Lantern
Joined: 12/9/2009
Msg: 36
What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?
Posted: 5/2/2011 2:59:46 PM
The establishment of the Holy Roman Catholic Church


How many innocent people have died including indigenous people in the name of spreading the good word? Add in the number of people killed in all the holy wars to date - was it worth it? What have we accomplished by trying to convert others to our belief system, are we better off living in a society with freedom of religion?
 _xxxxxxxxx_
Joined: 4/5/2011
Msg: 37
What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?
Posted: 5/2/2011 3:12:16 PM

Question: What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?
Answer: The establishment of the Holy Roman Catholic Church



^ dark humour?

i would have to say 'music': .. Mozart's Jupiter, Beethoven's 9th, Dvorak's 9th
. .and the Beatles
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 38
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What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?
Posted: 5/2/2011 5:07:24 PM
I have a shorter version of my original post to answer this.

Q: What human achievement is worth all the misery we create?

A: The question assumes facts not in evidence, your honor. Therefore it is not a valid question to ask.

Get away from the idea that we HAVE to do these nasty things. Most of them, we don't. They are COINCIDENTAL to our existence.
It isn't a matter of trying to solve an equation of worth. If you look out on the world and see that bad things are being done, the logical response isn't to kill yourself, or destroy all human kind, nor is it to demand justification for horrible things that can HAVE no justification.


The logical response is to JOIN THE REPAIR SQUAD.
 agapos
Joined: 4/24/2011
Msg: 39
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What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?
Posted: 5/3/2011 4:37:04 AM
Q: What human achievement is worth all the misery we create?

A: The question assumes facts not in evidence, your honor. Therefore it is not a valid question to ask.

Agreed. Misery is not created by humans. Misery, like all other types of "s", just happens.

Very few people set out to create "misery". By-and-large, the creation of misery is not an intentional act if it is generated by a human. Therefore there is no ipse quo premeditation. There is on apsy que attachment to blame. There is no upsu qua perpetrator in the person of one or more specific individual, and in courts of blame we can only try one human at a time, or else specific humans. That is, in courts humans can't be tried as a group of unspecified individuals. (That is actually lucky for us.)

There exist instances, where individuals are to blame to have caused misery. Some of these people are losers (Hitler), some have been condemned (Judas) and some are still awaiting trial (George W. Bush).
 NothingLeftToBurn
Joined: 6/11/2007
Msg: 40
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What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?
Posted: 5/3/2011 11:56:22 AM
Sorry to disillusion you, but there really isn't anything.

I know this. And yes guys, I agree that all life experiences misery. Not trying to single out humans.


congratulations, you've managed to be negative and self-important at the same time. usually the only people who can pull that off with a straight face are poets. what you are basically saying is, i am SO far above this world and all it contains... and it pains me to constantly notice just how superior i am. guess what... you are all about you too, you just manage to congratulate yourself while berating the entire course of human history in the process. get over yourself! are you in moral pain because others are suffering? i doubt it, otherwise you would have posted the photos of your stigmata. i think you are secretly in love with the idea of comparing the thin air on your pedestal with the unsatisfactory behavior of a million nameless and faceless others called "humanity".


Are you for real? I'll be the first to admit that I have addictions, I consume, I take the flesh from other animals for calories. I'm honest enough to admit that I'm above no one. I mean, did you honestly think I was talking about everyone else but me? Way to misjudge my character.
 motown cowgirl
Joined: 6/30/2010
Msg: 41
What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?
Posted: 5/3/2011 1:02:42 PM
Are you for real? I'll be the first to admit that I have addictions, I consume, I take the flesh from other animals for calories. I'm honest enough to admit that I'm above no one. I mean, did you honestly think I was talking about everyone else but me? Way to misjudge my character.

i wasn't calling your character into question at all!.... i'm sorry that you thought i was... what i meant to do is restate your original remarks in exaggerated terms from a different perspective to emphasize a specific point of my own about the POV you seem to have adopted about "all the misery we create".

let me see if i can elaborate. people are always free to create something miserable or something non-miserable, or they can go on damage control as igor said. either way, the universe just doesn't care.... every state of mind and every kind of experience is available to human beings for the taking. so the misery that other people create for themselves or other people is mostly beyond your personal sphere of direct control. but, you are as free to choose your own direction as they are theirs. therefore, there is no logical reason for you to concern yourself to the point of existential pain with the collective misery of mankind, and it's not even useful. it certainly isn't fun!! complaining about "all the misery we create" will never mitigate the level of misery that people experience in this world. misery is just one price we might pay for our freedom to act and then experience the consequences, but it certainly isn't the only option. so from that perspective, why would you choose anything less than the absolute best and most useful for yourself? that way, you are not only happier and less ill at ease about stuff you can't control, but you are also in a better position to help others. it would be a strategy that's congruent with your own personal sphere of control and influence. everything else you said about "all the misery we create" is just commiserating and shoveling shit against the tide.
 x_file
Joined: 6/25/2006
Msg: 42
What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?
Posted: 5/3/2011 3:55:28 PM

What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?


Misery is rarely the bi-product of human achievements alone. There are different categories of human achievements. Most non-material achievements, like those of the mind, the intellect, the true human achievements, rarely cause misery to anyone, expect perhaps the subject who embarked on attaining them, but not because the achievements are the cause for the misery, but rather the misery is necessary for the achievement(s)... much like visiting the dentist, and putting oneself through more pain in order to become pain free.

Among the many causes for misery, lack of self knowledge, I'd argue, tops the list.

Often we do what we do not to achieve anything, but rather simply to survive, or to amuse ourselves or simply because we're ignorant and stupid.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 43
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What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?
Posted: 5/3/2011 9:17:03 PM
I want to confess a minor thing. This thread from the first, reminded me, took me back the the horrible 1970's, when it became fashionable to decry the "bad" aspects of human kind, not as a way to try to steer us to a better way, but only as a way for the people DOING the "decrying" to pretend they were insightful. I was initially taken in by it back then (I was only 17), but finally struggled out of my depression and realized that, making a declaration that humanity was irretrievably evil, was just a fancy way to avoid accepting the responsibility to work in the other direction.
I think it was an expression of frustration at how huge and challenging it was to deal with all that we could see was wrong in the world, and I thought this thread was started for the same basic reason. I REALLY hated the 70's.
 Island home
Joined: 7/5/2009
Msg: 44
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What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?
Posted: 5/3/2011 9:37:08 PM

Among the many causes for misery, lack of self knowledge, I'd argue, tops the list.

Often we do what we do not to achieve anything, but rather simply to survive, or to amuse ourselves or simply because we're ignorant and stupid.

I'd agree with that

Therefore
the answer to the OP's question

What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?

Would be knowledge

Meaning real knowledge
Not assumptions
Nor beliefs
Along with knowledge Empathy is a worthwhile achievement

Long way to go and hopefully along time to get there.
 NothingLeftToBurn
Joined: 6/11/2007
Msg: 45
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What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?
Posted: 5/4/2011 8:57:22 PM


let me see if i can elaborate. people are always free to create something miserable or something non-miserable, or they can go on damage control as igor said. either way, the universe just doesn't care.... every state of mind and every kind of experience is available to human beings for the taking. so the misery that other people create for themselves or other people is mostly beyond your personal sphere of direct control. but, you are as free to choose your own direction as they are theirs. therefore, there is no logical reason for you to concern yourself to the point of existential pain with the collective misery of mankind, and it's not even useful. it certainly isn't fun!! complaining about "all the misery we create" will never mitigate the level of misery that people experience in this world. misery is just one price we might pay for our freedom to act and then experience the consequences, but it certainly isn't the only option. so from that perspective, why would you choose anything less than the absolute best and most useful for yourself? that way, you are not only happier and less ill at ease about stuff you can't control, but you are also in a better position to help others. it would be a strategy that's congruent with your own personal sphere of control and influence. everything else you said about "all the misery we create" is just commiserating and shoveling shit against the tide.


Fair enough.
 Cathysaint
Joined: 6/21/2011
Msg: 46
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What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?
Posted: 8/6/2011 6:51:35 PM
"What have we achieved as human beings that's worth all the pain and suffering we create in the world? Specifically all the pain and suffering we direct towards other sentient creatures, including other human beings"

Well my belief is that almighty hopes that if only a few of us develop in the way were were Orignally designed and intended for
It will be achieved.
Too much suffering has been allowed to go on ,thoughout history we have probably had less than 295 day free from some type of war going on.

He has more faith in us than we in ourselves.

Its a great shame we have repeated patterns in history, because most of history only show us, how not to be.

The soul evolves for eternity, and I believe that reincarnation is simply our spirits way of keep trying at it, cos it is not succeding down here, due to all the murky energy and bloodshed and hostility.
So to me reincarnation is not a positive concept as if we evolved here (all the odds are against us) we would evolve in a way that would take us on a higher level not the same level over and over.
Depressing really
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 47
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What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?
Posted: 8/7/2011 2:34:01 AM

What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?


PLASTIC!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBRquiS1pis
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 48
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What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?
Posted: 8/7/2011 9:07:37 AM
One last post on this, and then I promise to leave it alone.

This was originally posted as an equation. On one side is all the misery humans generate, and on the other, all the stuff the OP thinks of as GOOD stuff. He sees an imbalance to the negative side.

I think there's a much more realistic way to look at it all. It is NOT an equation, it is a process. To get to where we want to be, we do lots of things, some that turn out well, others that turn out VERY badly, and lots in between. Everything we go through, good bad or indifferent, COULD be looked at as a "cost" to be held up later against what we gain from it, but that only makes sense if you look at life as a matter of simplistic possibilities.

Life is much more complicated than that. some lessons require a LOT more mistakes than others for us to learn. Obviously, humans as a species have not yet learned to train ALL of us NOT to select out members of our own species to denigrate and blame for all that's bad in the world. We've been indulging in THAT bit of stupidity for all of our time here.

But if we ever DO finally overcome that, it wont make any sense at all to even ask the question "was it worth it?" Some accomplishments, no matter how expensive, are will transcend our existence in ways that make "cost" entirely unimportant.

A better way to think of it is, that BEFORE you accomplished what you did, you thought it would be easy-squeazy. You found out otherwise as you went through what you had to, to get where you wanted to be. Will you now go back, because the price was too high? No, because it wasn't LOW COST that you were after, it was the accomplishment itself.
 lara5780
Joined: 8/8/2011
Msg: 49
What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?
Posted: 8/17/2011 6:17:54 PM
bit of a downer mate, thinnk of the whales and dolphnins and beagals - they will still woof
 swamp_dude
Joined: 7/23/2007
Msg: 50
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What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?
Posted: 8/17/2011 7:05:35 PM
I see another .... half empty attitude ... when I prefer the half full one .... sorry bud but you are a downer and might as well kill yourself .... lol ... just joshing ya.

Pain and suffering ... we cause ... well yea .... life is pain and suffering .... all of life ... every form of life .... its nature ... you learn to live with the pains and stop bytchin about them unless they are really serious ... then you do something about them ... the suffering ... well ... you try to ease that with song and dance and the weed someone else was so down on ... but obviously has been brain washed about it and you lie to people and say they look good when they don't ... etc. etc. .... Not everything we do causes pain and suffering .... that is a really really shallow assessment of life. Try reading some philosophy of art and beauty and see the other side of life for a change.

good luck
you'll need it if you don't change that half empty attitude.
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