| Death Penalty
Posted: 12/14/2004 8:07:47 PM | Yeah, you are probably right, still though...
~~Dragon Rider~~ | |
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| Death Penalty
Posted: 12/14/2004 8:08:37 PM | whosyourbadkitty: i wish we could limit the appealate process to like 5 years for those sentenced to death.
With some streamlined Reforms, Expedition, without cramping Justice, can in most cases, be carried out in under 2 years. | |
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| Death Penalty
Posted: 12/14/2004 8:19:01 PM | well ticket... this is the best i can do in the way of actual facts regarding the cost of administering the death penalty from the time the criminal is sentenced to death. i'll post the link too in case anyone is interested in the history.
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EXECUTION COSTS
The cost of carrying out an execution in California is difficult to assess. The average cost to house an inmate is about $26,894 per year. Staff assigned to the execution team receive their regular, budgeted salaries. The cost of the execution procedure, including the chemicals utilized, is minimal.
The real cost involved in the capital punishment procedure is related to the court reviews, both those mandated by the Legislature as well as the appeal procedures initiated by the convicted inmates’ legal staff. These costs vary depending upon the resources of the convicted inmate and the length of the court procedures involved.
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here's the link: www.corr.ca.gov
that link is from the official california correctional facility site.
keep in mind ticket... people sentenced to death are not only being housed and cared for but add to that the cost of each salaried person involved in the appeals process, the court fees - which are hurendous mostly due to the 9th circuit court - also known as the graveyard. ;) and the average of just housing a prisoner being $26,894.00 per comes out to $537,880.00 over 20 years. remember, that's just for housing. again... you have to add every penny it will cost to get that person strapped down after waiting over 20 years. it's not the actual lethal injection or death sentence being administered in the end that costs so much... it's the whole process leading up to the end. $2.2 million is the stat i heard a while back and i think that's outrageous.
so... unless you can actually provide some facts, i guess we'll be at a stalemate on this one.
and as far as o.j. goes... i think he's the running joke of our legal system... that's why i mentioned him and don't forget... he lost the civil suit brought against him by the victim's families. so there are plenty of people out there that believe he's guilty. sad thing is... i don't think they've seen a dime of the settlement agreement to date either. so, yes, he was found not guilty of murder by a jury of his peers but that doesn't mean they were right ;) i don't believe one way or another on his freedom... i just keep an open mind based on the facts i have obtained.
all of this is just food for thought. | |
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| Death Penalty
Posted: 12/14/2004 8:21:14 PM | | ticket... there's a reason for the long process and most is due in part to the number of different courts an inmate has to go through in order to complete the appeals process so i think it's highly doubtful it will ever take less time than it does now to administer a death sentence. the number of death row inmates throughout the U.S. is astonishing and they all have to wait their turn for each court hearing. | |
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| Death Penalty
Posted: 12/14/2004 11:12:21 PM | $2.2 million = 12 - 17 Years incarceration + Appeal costs + Execution.
Same for a 20 Year Life Sentence = + also Appeal costs.
I doubt there is much of a discrepancy between either.
Its all the same Kitty. There is a cost Factor of Time + Legal Hocus-Pocus.
But After 20 years of incarceration, the bills will exceed the Death Penalty.
A Convict doing 50 years + contant Legal Appeals = higher than costs to Execute. | |
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yna6
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Joined: 5/2/2004
Msg: 231 | |
| Death Penalty
Posted: 12/14/2004 11:36:38 PM | | Send them overseas to disarm land mines for 20 years...if they survive that, they will have a new appreciation of life. Not quite a death sentance, and they are doing something that needs doing that is REAL dangerous...soooo... | |
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| Death Penalty
Posted: 12/14/2004 11:59:51 PM | Ok here is my idea.
I am not really for the death penalty. But they should be punished so I say do this. Put 30 pounds of chain around the guilty person and take them out to the middle of the Pacific or Atlantic ocean. If they make it to shore they have to do it three more times. If they make it all four times they can live.
It's that Simple! | |
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| Death Penalty
Posted: 12/15/2004 12:00:46 AM | Can we maim them a bit first?
~~Dragon Rider~~ | |
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| Death Penalty
Posted: 12/15/2004 6:39:19 AM | | where are you getting your figures ticket? i know for a fact it's not all the same... the appeals process is so much different for a lifer than it is for a death row inmate. and i know for a fact it costs far more for the inmates on death row to fight for life than it does for lifers to fight for a lesser sentence or the opportunity of a new trial or whatever it is they seek. if you can find the web site that shows the average cost of the death penalty proces... definitely post it, i'd love to take a look at it. i couldn't find it. | |
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yna6
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Joined: 5/2/2004
Msg: 235 | |
| Death Penalty
Posted: 12/15/2004 9:15:18 AM | | so get law students to do appeals...cheaper, and they still have their illusions and ideals, so they will be passionate about it. Have an appeals court set up to listen to these things with new judges just starting out who want to make a name for themselves....it helps keep the "law" a living fresh reality. Hopefully it would work both ways...keeping the guilty behind bars and setting those who have "reasonable doubt", or are innocent out. Allowing new evidence in and that which earlier courts refused to hear is paramount. This could work easily, and be far cheaper. | |
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| Death Penalty
Posted: 12/15/2004 9:25:26 AM | The idea has merit, though I wonder how much it would affect the overall cost. Not knowing exactly how the costs are being figured I have no way to judge, I do know from having done many costings and proposals and such, change of personnel rarely affects the overall cost in any significant percentage depending on who is doing the figuring and how. For example, when I worked for a particular corporation, my "cost" on a given project was calculated in such a way that my personal hourly wage could have varied by as much as 50% before it would truly affect my costing figure, the fixed costs involved in my mere existence were such that my wage was nearly insignificant...
Again though, I submit that the COST in dollars is immaterial, it is the COST to our soul, our hearts that is far more important. I still say, 10 million, or 10, it matters not, the cost of having this disease, even in quarantine is more than I want to pay.
~~Dragon Rider~~ | |
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| Death Penalty
Posted: 12/15/2004 10:39:27 AM | | Excellent Research Work, Dragonn! | |
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| Death Penalty
Posted: 12/15/2004 6:55:49 PM | ^^^ Good Work!!!
so get law students to do appeals...cheaper
Only Drawback, their Ineptitude could delay the Death Penalty even longer by way of more Appeals. And then there are even more Rights Issues already enshrined into Laws. That's why its so hard to make changes - another Stack of Laws obstructing Change to an existing One.
yna6: Send them overseas to disarm land mines for 20 years
Mr_Simple: Put 30 pounds of chain around the guilty person and take them out to the middle of the Pacific or Atlantic ocean.
DragonRider: Can we maim them a bit first?
And I thought the very brightest Minds could only be found involved with Law & Justice.
In that case, I would like to add "Mandatory Unprotected Asbestos Removal" or "Installation of Fiberglas Batt Insulation in the Raw" to the Slate ... lol | |
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| Death Penalty
Posted: 12/15/2004 7:16:20 PM | Ticket... you most certainly may... please do..
Chelle... you are quite right, they have overseers, though one would hope if they were going to screw up, it would be in the states favor ;-)
(forgive me for not getting you on that list? I am really sorry :-( )
~~Dragon Rider~~ | |
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Tayven
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Joined: 11/11/2004
Msg: 240 | |
| Death Penalty
Posted: 12/15/2004 7:17:40 PM | | I believe in capital punishment... I feel it;s the only way to warn off the youth from heading down the wrong road. And yes, If I had done wrong and was caught, I would face the conseuences. | |
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| Death Penalty
Posted: 12/15/2004 9:33:10 PM | dragonn... i hate to correct you because you did a great job finding the facts but you happend to list them backwards. the following info. is copied and pasted here so you can see what i'm referring to:
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THE COST OF THE
DEATH PENALTY IN CALIFORNIA Death Penalty Focus of California
74 New Montgomery Street, Suite 250
San Francisco, California 94105-3411
Voice: 415.243.0143
Fax: 415.243.0994
Email: dpfocus@aol.com
Capital punishment in California, as in every other state, is more expensive than a life imprisonment sentence without the opportunity of parole. These costs are not the result of frivolous appeals but rather the result of Constitutionally mandated safeguards that can be summarized as follows:
Juries must be given clear guidelines on sentencing, which result in explicit provisions for what constitutes aggravating and mitigating circumstances.
Defendants must have a dual trial--one to establish guilt or innocence and if guilty a second trial to determine whether or not they would get the death penalty.
Defendants sentenced to death are granted oversight protection in an automatic appeal to the state supreme court.
These constitutional safeguards translate into:
a more extensive jury selection procedure
a four fold increase in the number of motions filed
a longer, dual trial process
more investigators and expert testimony
more lawyers specializing in death penalty litigation
and automatic, mandatory appeals
Since there are few defendants who will plead guilty to a capital charge, virtually every death penalty trial becomes a jury trial with all of the above necessary requirements and expenses.
David Erickson’s study of Los Angeles County breaks down the cost of a capital trial and compares it with the costs of a murder trial where the death penalty is not sought. The following schedule is a summary of Erickson’s cost study of a death penalty trial in Los Angeles County only.
TRIAL Defense Attorney Defense Investigation Prosecution Attorney Prosecution Investigation Court LA Jail Total Cost to LA County
Capital $385,998 $48,523 $771,996 $48,523 $506,408 $136,875 $1,898,323
Regular $160,058 $5,105 $320,116 $5,105 $82,188 $54,750 $627,322
This table does not take into consideration the cost of incarceration which, for a death row defendant, would average $189,603. The incarceration of an inmate sentenced to life imprisonment generally costs about $821,613.
In Los Angeles County, the total cost of capital punishment is $2,087,926.
In Los Angeles County, the total cost of life imprisonment without possibility of parole is $1,448,935.
General Studies
A study done by the Sacramento Bee argued that California would save $90 million per year if it were to abolish the death penalty.
The average cost of a capital trial in Texas is $2.3 million--three times the cost to incarcerate an individual for 40 years.
The average cost of a capital trial in Florida is $3.2 million.
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| Death Penalty
Posted: 12/15/2004 9:40:05 PM | | oh... dragonn... that copy & paste job was from the 1st page that popped up from that link you listed. it does clearly state that capitol punishment does cost considerably more than life in prison without the possibility of perole. and the table they provided shows, in some areas, the hundreds of thousands of dollars difference between the two sentences. so, yes... i'd say you're very right in saying the truth does eventually come out. ;) | |
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| Death Penalty
Posted: 12/16/2004 5:50:41 AM | Deterants Work!
And so does the Death Penalty or Incarceration. The question is, how well does each work, and on what Basis?
In many Middle Eastern countries, if you steal something, they cut off fingers or hands and is a far better Deterant than 500 Hours of Community Work & Probation.
Likewise, Public flogging for crimes such as Fraud & Assault works far better as a Deterant than 30 Days in Jail & a $ 1,000 fine.
In yet other Quarters such as Indonesia, the Death Penalty applies for any trafficking, cultivating, importing, selling, or trading of controlled Drugs or their Chemical Precursors. The Philipines has just recently enacted a similar set of Penalties for hard Drugs because approx. 10% of the Youth Population is addicted to them. Research had shown that these Deterants DO work in Indonesia & other Countries to enforce their Laws.
As such, I also believe Lives are saved because Capital Punishment deters heinous Crimes. What the Dollar in Savings are, is obviously not known, but if the above references serve as an Example, it would have to be quite substantial in the long run.
There may also be another Drawback to permanent Incarceration; its completely pointless & useless - it does nothing except keep someone physically alive for a long time - solves nothing, resolves nothing, and doesn't put an end to something and has no constructive Purpose whatsoever.
What's the Point of locking someone up until the Day they Die?
The Electric Chair Works! Get it done & over with ASAP! | |
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| Death Penalty
Posted: 12/18/2004 12:35:46 AM | hey ticket... you said "There may also be another Drawback to permanent Incarceration; its completely pointless & useless - it does nothing except keep someone physically alive for a long time - solves nothing, resolves nothing, and doesn't put an end to something and has no constructive Purpose whatsoever."
i have to be honest with you... i never thought of life imprisionment like that and i have to say... that's definitely a thought to ponder. unless of course they are doing life in, i think it's louisiana that has that huge farm that they make the prisioners tend to in order to generate revenue for the town it's in. but then of course, that means that the prisioner would be able to get out and still see the world... so dangit... i'm back at square one.
but i'm really glad that i have an open mind because i've always been staunchly against the death penalty and reading some of the opinion in this forum has helped me to see things from a totally different perspective... i could see myself changing my mind on this issue if i dig a little deaper. i guess that's my way of sayin' thanks for saying the right things ;) | |
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| Death Penalty
Posted: 12/18/2004 3:34:15 PM | Phil's 2cents
When we become perfect of any error possible, then and only then, should we put
others to death. Now is that oxymoronic or what. If we were perfect,. killing of any type would not exist. What if, just what if, if Scott Peterson were in truth actually only a victum
of circumstantial evidence. And what if this came to light after we killed him. Extremely unlikely....but......what if.....
Scott, in my opinion deserves to be killed a minimum of 2 times. Advances in medicine in
some future utopia (?? some utopia eh??) may very well make it so we could resusitate him
and bring him back for a second killing. Now for appropiate effect we need to delay the second killing so he has ample thinking time about his impending death.
He may go out of his mind if we keep doing this. Then we'll have to provide services to bring him back to sanity so we could kill him again. ( Aint civilization great bye,bye,Scott.)
If you want Scott to suffer most give him a irreversible, no hope whatsoever, life sentence.
When it is without any hope, his life becomes barren except for any self redemption he may give himself. In death row he is too caught up in his own lies to himself as a survival instinct
as he pursues the HOPE that lies in appeals. His suffering in death row is much less.
The other prisioners in a life sentence will get him anyway. He'll always be watching his back.
But in death row he is too well protected.
Remember, you heard it here first. The judge will NOT sentence him to death.
Phil's done | |
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Roaul
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Joined: 4/14/2004
Msg: 246 | |
| Death Penalty
Posted: 12/18/2004 3:51:08 PM | thewoman who just murdered that woman for the unborn child is a prime example why the death penalty is justifyed she deserves to die by the most painful way she can.i wish we had the death penalty here in england reports are it cost 1000.($1500-$1750 per week to keep a criminal in jail,what a waste of tax payers money.
murderers should die.
pheads.should die.
someone who attacks an old person should be flogged
burgulars should have thei hand cut off.
yes i do agree with the middle est ways of preventing crime.the fact is if you dont want to pay for it dont commit it. | |
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| Death Penalty
Posted: 12/18/2004 4:20:30 PM | Thanks, Kitty.
Where there is irrefutable Proof of a Crime of such a Nature where the Offender would see nothing but Incarceration for the Remainder of his Natural Life, also taking into Consideration all legal Avenues for Appeals are closed, then we might as well say, that where such Circumstances exist, let's proceed with the Death Penalty.
And I believe that has pretty well been the Basis for Executions in the U.S. since Time immemorial. | |
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| Death Penalty
Posted: 12/18/2004 4:26:01 PM | Sometimes you have to shoot your own horse, put down your dog... it is the way of life...
The death penalty should be upheld, I do not want an offender worthy of such to suffer more than what it takes to put him out of our misery (say, 7 or 8 days for the worst offenders... Ant hill with honey?)
~~Dragon Rider~~
Tease not the Dragon, for you are tender and tasty, and better with strawberries | |
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| Death Penalty
Posted: 12/18/2004 6:10:28 PM | Personally I prefer penal colonies over the death penalty. Make them work hard for a living with steel weights around their ankles..
The ones in Kingston, Ontario make license plates. | |
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| Death Penalty
Posted: 12/18/2004 6:23:39 PM | | The one's in Kingston, or anywhere else for that matter, do not produce enough to pay the Expenses of their Room & Board. Justice is such a Joke in Canada. | |
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