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| Death Penalty
Posted: 11/21/2004 4:59:45 PM | Ok Lets say we have the crime on video tape, we have 2000 witnesses, the person confesses, and the victim identifies his/her killer before he/she dies!
Then can we dump him/her 2000 miles out in the ocean? | |
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shanny
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Joined: 6/13/2004
Msg: 152 | |
| Death Penalty
Posted: 11/21/2004 5:06:37 PM | I am FOR the death penalty ....WHY? Well my 15 year old daughter was mentally abused and raped repeatedly by someone i trusted, This went on for 6 years, she felt she couldnt tell me for he had told her he would kill her and everyone in my family, and also no one would beleive her, this guy is 44 years old. She finaly broke down and told another close family member ONLY when the guy that was doing this to her for 6 years off and on, when he sodomized her. The person she told, came to me. and it was all i could do to not blow his head off myself. But i couldnt think that way because i have to be strong for her and my family now. I have to be the steel that hold us up!
He was arrested, he had 3 counts of 1st degree rape , 2 counts of 2nd degree rape, 2 counts of third degree rape, mischeif with a minor, and pornography of him actually penatrating her. He told her to write letters to him and tell him what he wanted to hear about sexual crap.
So when he was arrested 2 weeks later, they got the letters, and the pictures, and he confessed right there on the spot.
NOW, he is looking at 15 years to life, on 3 counts each one 15 to life, and he may face charges not only in the state of washington in the county it all started in but 2 other counties, AND in the state of Idaho.
This is a man that is black and raped a child at the age of nine all the way up to 15, gave her herpies, and that was another thing that can be used against him in court.
Thank God my daughter never had to go thru a trial , and he did pead guilty. But in the Plea hearing he showed no remorse, and even had the balls to tell the judge thank you, and shook the bailiffs hand.
The Attorney we have informed me that this guy can get out on "SOSA" which in the state of washington is the sex offenders list, and the department of corrections called me and asked me what i thought about him being eligable for "SOSA" i told him he doesnt deserve to be let out at anytime for the fact that he preyed on an innocent child, and that he should pay for everything he has done to her.
The Attorney also informed me that he will go to a maximum security prison. Well in the state of washington there are only 2 and well. One of them happens to be 45 min from where i live. GUESS where they are putting him?!?!?!? YUP you got it! they are putting him in the prison 45 min from my house. I told my attorney that is NOT a good idea, because i have friends that are guards out there, and know what has happened. The attorney told me " what comes to him , will come" and turned and walked out.
I pray they expodite him to Idaho state. and charge him for taking a minor over state Line and hang that **stard for everything he has done to an innocent child because he is sick and demented. Idaho the northern part is where he would be tride, and can you say ARYON NATION??????
The scentencing is Dec 10th and we have a chance to confront him on what he has done to effect our lives among other things. For ***holes like this i wish they would stick him in the gas chamber and then there isnt a fear of someday he can get out and possably do this to another child, and prey upon other innocent souls.
But as it will be, he will never walk on grass again !!!!!!
I will have my victory , and there is a place for people like him in hell
so BRING ON the death penalty | |
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| Death Penalty
Posted: 11/21/2004 5:26:30 PM | Shanny;
((((( you and your daughter ))))) | |
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shanny
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Joined: 6/13/2004
Msg: 154 | |
| Death Penalty
Posted: 11/21/2004 6:31:55 PM | Dragonn, Yes you are very correnct he will get his in the end. People have to REALLY open their eyes on the death penalty fact that if someone "GOD FORBID" hurt anyone in their family, what their emotions and fear and anger all combined into one , what would their actions become?
There is no healing all the way from this at all. there is only in fact getting thru day by day and dealing with it!
I have no choice to crumble and give up, i will NOT let him win..........My family is alot stronger than one man alone, this is one piece of crap that will NEVER be in my prayers, there is a place in hell for him , i'm holding it!!!!! | |
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| Death Penalty
Posted: 12/11/2004 6:55:22 PM | | there are people out there that have committed the most awful crimes any of us can think of but who does it really punish if you put them to death? i may get shot here for saying this but i feel it's the person's family that suffers, not the offender if he/she is put to death. wiping someone off the face of this earth who would have otherwise rotted in a 6x5' cell seems pointless to me because they will not suffer when given the lethal injection, they simply get to go to sleep. how fair is that? i feel that offenders that are up for the death penalty ought to be kept in their cells 24 hours a day, 7 days a week for the rest of their god for saken lives without any communication from the outside world other than the 3 meals tossed to them each day. and legally that's considered cruel and unusual punishment. i would offer no tv, no reading material, no nothing to a prisoner who would otherwise be put to death. i say let them suffer as their victims did until the day they die a natural death. | |
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yna6
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Joined: 5/2/2004
Msg: 156 | |
| Death Penalty
Posted: 12/11/2004 8:27:03 PM | | Kitty...as it is now these guys get better treatment than the homeless folks on the street....free dental, medical, a gym, 3 meals PLUS snacks, all healthy balanced meals too, TV, cbale, pool tables, laundry facilities, no worries about how to pay the bills, conjugal visits, free education, the list goes on and on....it PAYS to be a criminal....staying poor and honest doesn't work in our society anymore. I knew guys in highschool that were B&E car theft, drugs, whatever....so the system steps in...many of these guys have jobs that PAY 20+ bucks an hour...one guy I knew had a job 22 bucks an hour, full time, lots of benefits simply because "society was bad to him so HE turned out bad". I mean, crap, I work like a dog and NEVER got that kind of money, even if it WAS the same job (different employer). Totally sucks. | |
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| Death Penalty
Posted: 12/11/2004 10:46:43 PM | yna6... it does suck that some criminals are afforded these luxuries but i don't think they receive the same treatment on death row. in any event, my issue is with criminals that are sentenced to death. and if i had it my way, i'd leave them in their cells to rot but i don't get my way here. ;) i've also worked my hiney off to get where i am in life and all... but if a criminal has done his/her time, gets out and finds an awesome job then maybe prison taught them to be a productive member of society. once they've paid for their crimes they are free to go and we should all hope they'd get out and become a productive member of society. we all have the opportunity to succeed or fail in this lifetime so there's no sense in even comparing yourself to a criminals life. they aren't handed any favors any more than i have been throughout life. and if their money is ill gotten, let them worry about paying the price because that lifestyle can only get you so far.
those on death row on the other hand should never see the light of day if you ask me. problem is... the punishment i would enforce is considered inhumane. i just think victims get ripped off when the convicted are sentenced to death. they have to go through all of the appelate hearings which last for years. life without the possiblity of perole brings an end to all that... in most cases. i just don't think a prisoner suffers enough when put to death and especially when they are put to death by lethal injection. i've obviously never been given the lethal injection but i've been put to sleep for surgery a number of times and i'd never know the difference if i didn't wake up. i have seen the lethal injection administered and it appeared to be no different than being put under for surgery. i think that's a kind of a peaceful way to go and i don't think criminals are deserving of such mercy by us... let god have mercy on that persons soul once they've served a life in a prison cell with no amenities what so ever. food, clothing, medical treatment are all humane and acceptable but tv, cable, games, books, family visits, conjucal visits, phone privilages, mail, etc... all should be eliminated for prisoners who qualify for the death penalty.
but that's just my opinion because i don't feel anyone has the right to take another human beings life no matter what the circumstances are. and even if, god forbid, my son was taken from me by some criminal act... i'd much rather watch that person suffer in prison the rest of their life because if i couldn't (which i couldn't, no matter how angry i was) take that persons life myself... i'd definitely get no joy out of someone else doing it for me.
it also doesn't bring the victim back, if that's the case, when you administer the death penalty. it just makes two less people in this world. and oh boy... what if a person is wrongly convicted... you can't bring them back. there's just too much room for error and i just can't see the rewards in utilizing the death penatly. | |
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| Death Penalty
Posted: 12/12/2004 4:43:51 PM | Injustice:
A family lost a 12 year old girl that was raped, beaten, shot three times in the face and left for dead.The grandmother watching her was shot 11 times. The killer gets life in prison and the family who suffered this tragedy gets to pay for that killer's room and board for the rest of his natural life.
Most death row cells are single cells and not shared like general population. They actually have things a little bit better as far as prison life goes. Add to that the fact of the average stay on Death Row being 17 years. The average cost to tax payers of a death row inmate including appeals is 1.2 million dollars.
That doesn't sound like swift or fair justice to me.They commit a capital crime, give them the death penalty and then execute them. | |
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| Death Penalty
Posted: 12/12/2004 4:47:22 PM | | We dont have it here in the UK----------last woman to hang in the UK was ruth ellis----she killed a guy | |
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| Death Penalty
Posted: 12/12/2004 5:10:58 PM | Shanny - my sympathies for you and your daughter...
My views on Rape are expressed in another thread, and the apt punishment for same, those interested can find them... Child molesters are even worse scum...
Correctional facillities - I don't know about this, there are certain things that one can and should be rehab'd from, and released to society as useful citizens again... However, Rape, Murder, and other CAPITAL offenses are not one of them.
Nor do I think that we should pay for their room and board for the rest of their life... 17 years is too long... End it, and let us be done with it... I pay for enough.... the victims have paid enough... | |
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LadyO
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Joined: 8/26/2004
Msg: 161 | |
| Death Penalty
Posted: 12/12/2004 5:25:09 PM | I sit on the fence on this one.
There are certain people that should be killed. However, with that said, I do not believe they should be killed by the "conventional" and "humane" way. Ex: Lethal Injection, Electrocution, Gas Chamber. Nor do I believe in sending them to live on death row for 17 years while the tax payers pay for their food, their magazines, their entertainment, and everything else.
Here in Canada there isn't a death penalty, and yes there are less crimes in Canada than in the US. But look at how many people are in the US compared to Canada. The united states has 294,961,373 people as of 8:09pm (EST). A birth occurs in the states ever 7 seconds. A death - every 12 seconds.
What's Canada's population? 32,075,092 as of 8:11pm (EST) There's one birth in Canada every one minute and 36 seconds. A death every two minutes and seventeen seconds.
We have less crime because we have less people to commit the crimes and partly because of our gun laws being as strict as they are. Apparently, we have the tightest gun laws in the world. (hrmph)
Anyways, carrying on. Take the case of two men in Germany last year. They abducted a brother and sister (5 and 4 years old). They decapitated the brother and threw him in a river but took the four year old girl back to their place where they tied her up, raped her, sodomized her, and then sliced her throat. One guy got off, the other sat through his hearings with a smile on his face. When the prosecuter showed pictures of the little girls body, he blew kisses.
Does he deserve to sit on death row for whatever number of years while the tax payers of Germany wait for his appeal? In my oppinion. No, he does not. He deserves to be given to the parents and the cops to turn a blind eye. Oh, I'm sorry, that's not humane? Well, argue with me how humane it was to slaughter a four year old child? Can't? Oh, what a pity..guess what. I win.
Take the recent case of Lacy Peterson. Did you know they determined that Connor (the baby) had taken his first breath of air? You do know what that means right? It means that the killer removed the baby from Lacy's body, BEFORE killing him. What kind of person does that? And, if Scott Peterson did it (circumstantial evidence aside) do you think he deserves to sit behind bars in a generally secluded area for 17 years waiting to die while eating three meals a day, watching tv and reading?
No. Not for me he doesnt deserve that. He deserves to be thrown into a damp, dark, grundgy cell. He deserves to get bread and water, no clothes, no heat, no showers. He deserves to be put in the general populace. He deserves to be beaten, to have the guards turn a blind eye. Oh, that's not humane? (Remember, I said -IF- he did it) Oh, well please...tell me how it was humane for him to pull Connor out of his mothers womb and then kill him? To kill his wife, someone beautiful and full of life? Hrm...can't? Pity. I win.
If someone is falsely accused and is sentanced to death, which happens RARELY, then, he still has 17 years to wait for an appeal. The defense of people getting sentanced to death who are innocent hasn't happened a lot, at least I don't think so. I'd like to see some statistics.
But for those that you KNOW did the crime, did something so horrible, why should they be allowed to have more comforts than say someone homeless who hasnt done anything in his life? Or a mother with no where to go with her children but another shelter. Why should they be allowed to be warm and secure in their secluded areas if they've murdered and raped children? Does this seem fair to you? To me it doesn't.
But then, I don't believe in being humane with people like that. What they did wasn't humane, why should they get treated better? Sure, government threatens the death penalty, but they'll still sit there for up to 17 years getting good food, entertainment and tax benefits (which happened to my grandmother here in Canada. She didn't get a rebate or whatever on her taxes for heating, but the inmates at the local prison did.)
I know I sound crass. I know I sound cruel. And I am sorry if I offended anyone.
Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah.
Cheers
~LadyO | |
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| Death Penalty
Posted: 12/12/2004 5:31:02 PM | | You go LadyO.... (Cool Eyes by the by)... I am all for humane and fair treatment... for those that deserve such... the rest... How a bout a a deep pit, filled with vipers, scorpions, ants and other such things... | |
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| Death Penalty
Posted: 12/12/2004 7:09:36 PM | just some facts... there's also a list of all the people put to death in each state since 1977. funny thing is... texas has the highest number of executions @ 256 compared to the 9 we've put to death in CA. there was even a guy listed that was put to death by firing squad in UT.
-Steve Birdlebough
Polls and Death
[FCL N/L 6/99]
Lengthy imprisonment is the most favored penalty for murder, according to numerous surveys of voters throughout the United States over an extended period. While many polls merely ask whether people support or oppose capital punishment in the abstract, some ask whether the respondents favor the death penalty over a sentence of life imprisonment without parole. Here is a review of some recent polling results: State/year (survey source) Prison Execution
Michigan/ 1999 (EPIC/MRA - Lansing) 56% 33%
New York/ 1998(Quinnipiac College Polling Institute) 53% 38%
Virginia - 1998 (Quality of Life in Virginia Poll) 56% 37%
Ohio - 1997 (Buckeye State Poll) 59% 31%
National - 1993 (Greenberg/Lake &Tarrance Group) 44% 41%
California - 1989 (Haney/Field Research Corp.) 67% 26%
These survey results are quite consistent with the behavior of citizens who are required to serve as jurors in capital cases. Although jurors who oppose capital punishment are uniformly excluded from panels, juries frequently decide against imposition of the death penalty
In order to discern public attitudes about complex issues, it is critical that we ask good questions. The fact that few politicians or pundits are attuned to the public's real preferences on an issue as important as capital punishment shows how much work informed citizens need to do.
i agree with a lot of what you say lady o and you make some really awesome points... but i just can't find it within myself to agree with the death penalty. now if it were legal to dump them in a cell the way you describe... i'd go for that. i'd just rather see the guilty person suffer and death is just too easy a way out. it just seems to me that the only people you're hurting by administering the death penalty are the people that guilty person leaves behind. is it going to hurt someone like scott peterson to be put out of his misery years before his time or would it be more of a punishment to throw him in with the general population and let them handle it? i'd kinda rather see him thrown to the wolves than laid on a table all nice and snug & given a sleepy shot before he took his last breath.
i suppose though, some/maybe most people find closure in the death of the criminal when they are victimized. i suppose there are tons of reasons i should support the death penalty but for now i can't quite make it to that point. i'll have to do some thinkin' on that... your posting envoked some thoughts... so thank you. ;) i must say though... i may be against the death penalty but i'd never stand in the way of justice. so, with that said... i may not agree with it but it doesn't make it "wrong" in my eyes... it is legal in CA to put someone to death... so be it. | |
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| Death Penalty
Posted: 12/12/2004 7:58:43 PM | I would really prefer to see the criminal suffer, however, loosing their freedom does not to my mind seem to be enough, but our laws do not allow the type of punishment that I think a lot of them deserve. It is labled cruel and unusual... though for the life of me I still fail to see how it can be cruel and unusual for a perpetrator to suffer the same fact the vile b*astard served unto others.
I have several reasons for standing behind the death penalty, monetary issues are but one of them, though I fail to see how it can be cheaper to keep them for 40, 50, 60 years than put them to death... but our prisons are over crowded, we have too few persons to work in them, they are far too dangerous for those there convicted of non violent crimes.
But when all is said and done... putting them in a box, absolving them of all responsibility for the rest of their lives, feeding and clothing them, housing them, giving them medical treatment for the rest of their lives... this is punishment?
If they cannot give them the pushment they deserve, then simply put them away as you would a mad dog or any other rampaging animal.
~~Dragon Rider~~ | |
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| Death Penalty
Posted: 12/12/2004 8:04:41 PM | my memory really sucks dragon rider but if i remember right... the cost to put someone to death a few years ago was up to 2.2 billion dollars. not nearly what it costs to keep them alive.
i suppose it would be nice if we could administer the "eye for an eye" concept but maybe that decision should be left with the victim and not a jury? just a thought. i say that because i know there are some people that will suffer at the hands of a criminal and forgive them and are fine with seeing them spend the rest of their lives in jail. but there are others that would just as quickly do to the criminal what was done to them or worse and feel ok with that and i'd think that would be fair. too bad life's not that easy, huh? ;) | |
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| Death Penalty
Posted: 12/12/2004 8:16:57 PM | I cannot imagine how they arrive at that figure, I truly cannot, it must include the 17 years of judicial appeals and lawyers fees and what not... I know for a fact that a good 9 mm costs less than $1000 and box of shells less than $50, and that is assuming that one is a poor shot and needs the whole box of rounds to get the job done (personally, I would prefer someone that is a poor shot... but that is me)
Letting the victim decide might not be a bad idea... but alas, some souls are very timid... and may not be able to do what is needful...
~~Dragon Rider~~ | |
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| Death Penalty
Posted: 12/13/2004 3:35:01 AM | For those of you who are forcapital punishment, do you think you could sit on a jury and send someone to their death?
I did jury service a couple of years ago and it was a horrible case, but even then its very hard to send someone to prison for however many years, you have to be so sure fo everything you've heard. Do you honestly think that you could be sure enough to send someone to their death?
As i said before personally i don't agree with the death penalty, I don't agree with an eye for an eye, its too destructive and doesnt actually help anyone in the long run. | |
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| Death Penalty
Posted: 12/13/2004 4:01:08 AM | | I do not believe in the death penalty, I think putting them in a cell for the rest of their life is a worse punishment anyway. Think about the rest of your life behind bars, nothing but time to refect on what you have done. Also think about how horrible a life having to constitly fight for respect, and not ever being able to just walk down the street or interact in public at all. My moms cousin is a prison gaurd, and she says that the real sick crimmanals(i.e. rapists, any crime involving a child, torturors, people who kill pregnant women, etc.) have it the worst anyway, they are the ones that get raped and beat the most. She told me once that one of her co-workers saw this child molster getting gang raped and waited a couple of minutes before breaking it up. While I do not condon that I know it happens, and it is one of the reasons I think life in prison is worse. | |
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| Death Penalty
Posted: 12/13/2004 6:48:03 AM | Hmmm, an old fashioned chain gang, this might work for some.
But dear ladies and others here, you misunderstand me, I have no desire to punish these types of criminals (save for my choice of thier departure from this world). Would you punish a rabid dog? It is my opinion that these creatures have forfeited their claim to humanity by committing their particular heinious crime and therefore should be put down like any mad dog or feral animal.
Punishment implies that there is some hope for re-education and re-integration into society, for these types, there should be no hope and no desire. I don't even want the chance that they might accidentally get back into the general populace...
~~Dragon Rider~~ | |
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| Death Penalty
Posted: 12/13/2004 6:51:53 AM | | I do not think that anyone who has commited a crime that would get the death penalty should ever be released, but I don't think that they should be killed. | |
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| Death Penalty
Posted: 12/13/2004 7:06:13 AM | King - I do not perceive this as killing nor murder - in general I view it as would a Doctor removing a dangerous tumor or cancer, and excising if you will. That these aberrations walking around pretending to be man have committed such an act that 12 persons of good conscience have deemed them vile enough to warrant the death sentance, speaks for itself. I for one have no desire to punish these things, I do not want to support them, do not want to provide for them, do not want them around.
That they SHOULD not be released goes without question, however, such things do happen either through appeals based on legal loopholes or potential for their escape from the penal institution. Prisons exist, in theory, for punishment and rehabilitation... how does one rehabilitate a cancer, how does one rehabilitate a rabid dog, how and why would one want to rehabilitate a sick animal that preys on our young in such a horrible fashion.
Someone asked if I could sit on such a jury, condemn a man to death. Yes, I could and would, for the thing on trial ceases to be a man once he has been found guilty.
I refuse to apologize for my stance. To my mind, these things are an affront to our society and their continued existence and insult to the victims.
~~Dragon Rider~~ | |
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| Death Penalty
Posted: 12/13/2004 7:20:50 AM | | I support the death penalty. An Eye for an Eye.. If you commit murder you should be killed yourself. But if it's an accident than no. In a since of a war commiting murder than your only protecting your well being and fellow comrades and shouldn't be punished for it. | |
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| Death Penalty
Posted: 12/13/2004 7:24:59 AM | Rheanna - Good job, though you have to be careful regarding war time. Under fire is one thing, but we have to be careful, executions are not allowed.
Please do allow for killing during self defense and please define MURDER with the cold blooded, crimes of passion are quite a bit different and may fall under the category of self defense...
~~Dragon Rider~~ | |
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| Death Penalty
Posted: 12/13/2004 7:39:49 AM | | I asked if you could sit on a jury and condemn someone and whilst i appreciate your point of view that they are no longer human when found guilty,(and there is no need to apologise for a personal opinion) it is very hard to be completley sure that they are guilty. There has been some research intot he fact that people may be less likely to convict somone if they are going to receive the death penalty than if they were to be subjected to life imprisonment. | |
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| Death Penalty
Posted: 12/13/2004 7:42:43 AM | | Where did you get that information from bells? Just curious... | |
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