| Death Penalty
Posted: 12/13/2004 2:41:04 PM | I will grant you your point on the voting thing, however in our society legal and lawful are semantically equivelant. There are checks and balances in place to disallow for selfish reasons, they are not perfect, but they are there.
Life in prison is just that, life, at my, your and our expense, I object. Please note that I never said that there should not be time allowed for review and appeal, but limits on the type of appeals that will be entertained and limits on the length of such appeals.
Rape is a touchy subject, as I stated before, I feel that most of these issues should have been resolved without the need to bother the courts. And please note here that I am talking RAPE, real rape, not statutory or other things that are just silly.
SOrry, I have no desire to pay for someone to be on permanent holiday after being convicted of a crime, it is a sad truth that many on death row and in prison live better, are better fed and have better medical care than others in the US that are merely poor....
~~Dragon Rider~~ | |
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| Death Penalty
Posted: 12/13/2004 2:52:06 PM | Sorry to step off the topic but I can not ignore this comment.
And please note here that I am talking RAPE, real rape, not statutory or other things that are just silly.
How is statutory rape not real rape? What type of rape is silly? | |
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| Death Penalty
Posted: 12/13/2004 2:58:10 PM | I just knew that I should have clarified... I had a recent thing in mind that happened here... and should have expounded... Rape is silly when it is Rape only in the eyes of the law.. IE: 18 year old boy, 17 year old girl... parents hate the boy, parents send boy to jail for Rape, when it was not in any fashion save "legally"...
My apologies and hopefully no one will flame me too badly...
~~Dragon Rider~~ | |
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Posted: 12/13/2004 3:00:36 PM | And for the record... Rape is only Rape when it is non consentual... I mistrust this whole statutory thing, where one can be "tehcnically" guilty of rape because one of the partners are not of age... THere is even a state where you can be guilty of statutory rape if a cop pulls you over and she has her shoes off... nothing else... just her shoes...
~~Dragon Rider~~ | |
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| Death Penalty
Posted: 12/13/2004 3:02:49 PM | | I agree completly. I was 18 my girlfriend was 17, her mom walked in and she almost pressed charges. Although I hear most judges give a two year leway on this issue(ie 18-16, 19-17). | |
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| Death Penalty
Posted: 12/13/2004 3:03:29 PM | Yeah Chelle - however, some of those are even harder to prove... it happens far too often and far too often parents will use it as a bludgeon...
~~Dragon Rider~~ | |
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| Death Penalty
Posted: 12/13/2004 3:04:08 PM | | Is that shoe thing real? That is crazy. Is it Texas? | |
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| Death Penalty
Posted: 12/13/2004 3:04:28 PM | Depends on the Judge King... and the money and family involved...
~~Dragon Rider~~ | |
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Posted: 12/13/2004 3:09:30 PM | Yes the shoe thing is real, and yes that would be Texas (or was, they may have amended it by now...) Rather silly... but there it is...
~~Dragon Rider~~ | |
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| Death Penalty
Posted: 12/13/2004 9:05:21 PM | hey ticket... ya, that could be a typo or my really bad memory. i guess i should have made my point clearer... it definitely costs society more financially to administer the death penalty because of the appealate(sp?) process than it does to hand down a life sentence without perole. and i think the only reason i mentioned that is because a discussion had started about the amount of money lost in keeping a severe criminal alive. i'd have to do some digging on that number but i remember being absolutely floored when i heard it and that's why the billion stands out to me.
oh... just a general comment... society knows O.J. did it & got off... what's that say about people with money to afford a good defense? | |
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| Death Penalty
Posted: 12/13/2004 9:22:00 PM | exavier... i think people use religion in the case of administering the death penalty because it's written throughout the bible that it's the acceptable form of punishment. and please don't ask me to quote the bible... i'm just answering the question you posed. if i have to i can but i'd rather not because i'm not a bible thumper... i was just forced into the catholic religion as a young child and certain things are still stuck in my head. :)
i think in most cases when people use religion to validate their reasons for believing things in the way they do because they can take comfort in saying... "the bible says it, therefore it must be" know what i mean?
found a web site that might help answer some questions... just thought i'd share
www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/
the following information comes from this link if anyone is interested in the religious side of this issue...
www.religioustolerance.org/exe
The first mention of capital punishment as a penalty for murder is in Genesis 9:6:
"Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man." (KJV)
This passage regards the killing of a human as an offense against God because humans were made in the image of God, both male and female. Unlike the previous passage which required that the murderer be merely exiled, this verse required the murderer to be killed.
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there are tons of web sites out there with alot of great information about this topic. doesn't make me support the death penalty but there's definitely enough information to make a person take a serious look at this issue.
thanks for letting me share :) | |
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| Death Penalty
Posted: 12/13/2004 10:03:46 PM | the hell with the criminal. maybe if the penalty is severe enough they might think twice.
castrate em' or kill em'....... | |
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| Death Penalty
Posted: 12/13/2004 10:13:59 PM | Kitty - My objection is not about the total dollars spent per se, to my lights, by my belief, a single dollar is too much to pay to keep these scum alive. My problem with it is that WE have to pay it, regardless and that we translates to the VICTIMS of the crime... they too must pay for the rest of their lives to keep this scum that victimized them alive. Whether it be 10 dollars or 10 cents it is too much. Do YOU want to pay to keep the scum that raped and sodomized you at 6 alive? Or the man that killed your brother for a buck?
More than mere money is the cost to us as a society, where we keep people like caged animals, and then, keep the rabid ones in the same pen too... very sad.
AFter all of that... million or billion, that exorbitant cost is why I say there should be a limit to the length of and type of appeal that is allowed. Appeals that use legal loopholes to exclude evidence... no more, no appeal longer than say 5 years or some such... but cap it, then be done with it...
Money will out, everytime.... OJ.. IF he did it(I honestly don't know enough to say one way or the other, I tend to believe him guilty, but... do not know), he had enough money to buy his way out... Sad, but that is the way things sometimes work.
~~Dragon Rider~~ | |
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| Death Penalty
Posted: 12/14/2004 8:45:29 AM | Dragonn, once again we see eye to eye, save there are some crimes that I choose not to rehabilitate... Rape, Molesters, a few others...
~~Dragon Rider~~ | |
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| Death Penalty
Posted: 12/14/2004 9:04:07 AM | | I personaly will never back anyone being murder by anyone. I do not eat meat, I do not want to kill the animal. I know that I am the minority, and I do not wish to change anyone's mind, this is just my personal belief. As for molester, and rapist castration is always a good punishment, to go along with life in fedral "pound you in the @ss" prison. | |
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| Death Penalty
Posted: 12/14/2004 9:10:05 AM | THere is only two issues with your castration... that only removes the ability for offspring (and is supposed to reduce the drive... would for me but...) And in reality the ability to perform the act is not (from what I have heard) the motive behind it... so all you have done is remove a tool...
Second issue is that currently neither mandate a life sentence, there is still some belief in being able to rehab these animals...
THe issue of killing to eat... I leave that as an exercise for others, but will point out, that you are removing the life of anything that you eat.
~~Dragon Rider~~ | |
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Posted: 12/14/2004 9:38:11 AM | | Ahhh you are mostly right, fruits fall from the tree, milking is good for the cows. I do thank the plants, and I know this is a wierd but I feel bad for them, but just as I am sure you do not eat human, I do not eat animal. I will gladly pay my share of taxes for lifers. We need stronger violent and sexxual crime laws, and punishments. Also to we should legalize drugs and get potheads out of prison that is a waste of money. | |
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Posted: 12/14/2004 9:58:23 AM | Potheads yes, dealers no... especially dealers that pander to children...
~~Dragon Rider~~ | |
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Posted: 12/14/2004 10:03:21 AM | | legalize drugs but make it illegal to sell on the street, have strict age limits. Keep all dealers that sold to kids locked up. I have a friend who grows and sells, but only to his friends I see nothing wrong with that. | |
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Posted: 12/14/2004 10:13:06 AM | | WOW!!! Nothing wrong with drugs? | |
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Posted: 12/14/2004 10:20:21 AM | Nothing wrong with my friend growing weed and selling it to his friends.
But legalize all drugs, look at amstadam, and then look at LA which place has more crime? | |
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| Death Penalty
Posted: 12/14/2004 10:42:36 AM | Friends of legal age.. sure... on a small scale.. no problems...
~~Dragon Rider~~ | |
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| Death Penalty
Posted: 12/14/2004 7:03:55 PM | whosyourbadkitty: it definitely costs society more financially to administer the death penalty because of the appealate(sp?) process than it does to hand down a life sentence without perole.
In the absense of any hard comparative Facts, I tend to disagree with your assessment that Execution is far more costly. As I mentioned in a previous post, Decades of Appeals by 'Life-Timers' will set off any exorbitant Expenses accrued by way of the Death Penalty.
whosyourbadkitty: society knows O.J. did it & got off...
I'm not sure if Society does, but very likely an overwhelming majority would concur with you. But that's neither here nor there. The Courts have ruled, based on Council's Presentation, that he is not criminally Guilty, consequently not Guilty in the Eyes of the Law.
In the end, that's all that matters. Believe what you like.
dragonn: Imprisonment in Bureau of Prisons Facility
Daily $63.51
Monthly $1,931.97
Annually $23,183.69
I wonder if those costs are inclusive of Loss of Property Investment Return Values, Maintenance & Repairs of Premises, Pension Plans and other Miscellaneous Items.
DragonRider: Appeals based on legal loopholes as opposed to innocence or mitigating circumstance should be dismissed out of hand.
Determining what is and what isn't a 'Loophole' and/or 'Mitigating Circumstance' is another Ball of Wax altogether. From a Legal Perspective, such Determination may not even be possible. | |
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| Death Penalty
Posted: 12/14/2004 7:41:16 PM | hey dragon... i totally get what you're saying about the costs and all. i wish we could limit the appealate process to like 5 years for those sentenced to death. but money isn't the real issue for me... i brought it up because it was tossed out there a ways back in this thread. and to be honest with you... if i were the victim of a crime or someone i knew, a family member or whatever... i would pay to see the person sit behind bars the rest of their godforsaken life because i know people get beat up and raped and all sorts of stuff in prison but in death... they just get out. either way, with our laws... nobody really gets any satisfaction.
scott peterson's family will be able to enjoy him for another 20 years or more before the death penalty is actually administered against him & what's that do to laci's family? in the end, nobody really wins because by the time they do get around to killing him... he wants out of prison anyway. ;) i call death his free ticket out. | |
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