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| | ***MMA, UFC, WEC, and REAL FIGHTING***Page 10 of 13 (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13) | Boxer, I'm not sure if you're being willfully ignorant or if you simply don't understand the difference here. You answered your own question - the same pressure delivered though a smaller area will concentrate the force. You say "both sets of gloves were tested MMA gloves and Boxing gloves", but have you ever *felt* that difference? Anyone that has will tell you that statemachine is correct in his assessment. 14oz boxing gloves do feel like pillows in comparison to 6oz MMA gloves. But the thing is, for the 100th time, MMA IS NOT BOXING. Of course boxers will be better at boxing; they are specialists at that. MMA folk are much more well rounded, and that broader skill set means they don't *have* to be as good as a boxer at striking. Boxers will have a hard time defending the takedown and subsequent RNC, yes? I'll repeat in case you missed it:
MMA IS NOT BOXING. Boxers do not have to worry about getting kneed or elbowed, kicked, backfisted, slammed or submitted. All of these things mean that all that lovely boxing technique will not guarantee that they won't be KO'd or submitted by the MMA guy.
That said, I highly respect boxers as the experts in their field. But money isn't the *only* reason you don't see many boxers talk about coming over to MMA thinking they will whip as$ all over the place. They know better. | |
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Posted: 7/27/2012 6:15:07 PM | | Ya I know what PSI is. Do you know what KINETIC ENERGY is?? Those sloppy punches that are thrown from the shoulders instead of the heels is why the punching in MMA blows. All im saying is that its silly to compare both sports when they are so different. The best MMA numbers are Silva's with a million thats pathetic compared Marquez vs Pacquiao or Mayweather vs Cotto.... The numbers globally are completely lopsided so please. Those pillows "Einstein" are made not to protect the opposing fighter from being concussed but rather to be able to throw a punch with full force and not break hands or fingers... All those lil gloves do is prove MMA has biasty towards the ground game... Why did Silva duck Jones?? If he could KICK ASS AS YOU SAY... why not fight a completely shot Jones?? You do realize Anderson Silva got tooled by a complete bum in boxing right??? | |
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Posted: 7/27/2012 6:28:07 PM | | Yes a smaller surface area... use common sence what that does is CUT SOMEONE EASIER NOT DELIVER MORE FORCE... Especially when they throw from their shoulders instead of their heels... Also where do you get 14oz from??? Professional boxers use 8oz to 12oz in a bout. You are just talking out of your butt now. 16oz are used for sparring nothing else??!! Well rounded to me is a multiple decree black belt in several arts. In order to obtain full mastery and benefeits from an art is to obtain multiple decrees. MMA is a bunch of JACKS OF ALL TRADES. They know a lil bit in each art or are GREAT IN ONE FORM OF COMBAT AND COMPLETE GARBAGE IN EVERYTHING ELSE. Id like you to tell me how a submission or takedown is gonna help an MMA fighter in a boxing bout??? The only people crossing over are boxers. I have yet to see an MMA fighter crossover?? | |
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Posted: 7/27/2012 9:36:54 PM | Just exactly how is an MMA fighter going to approach a good boxer who 's dancing back and forth lets say someone like Sugar Ray Leonard . If the MMA guy approaches Leonard standing up Leonard would knock him silly. The only chance an MMA fighter would have would be to dive at Leonards legs and Leonard knows it's coming. There isnt one MMA fighter that even close to Leonards or any good boxers speed
At the community center where I live a 2nd degree black belt in Karate sparred with an equally sized boxer and got his A$$ kicked. He could not believe how fast and accurate the boxers hands were.
In return the black belts kicks were far too slow for him to connect with any amount of power.
It wasnt even close!!!
I'll take a good boxer hands down against any MMA or UFC fighter of equal weight , theres no way they can handle the speed and power of a boxer . If the guy comes too close standing up he will get tagged good. In fact most MMA anf UFC dont really know how to protect there heads or bodies from even the sluggest of punchers.
I'd take a good boxer hands down!! | |
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Posted: 7/27/2012 10:00:34 PM | | That is very true AKATD. The difference in handspeed is ridiculous. All these people use an ancient and brain damaged James Toney as an example. A boxer as fast as Ray Leonard or Meldrick Taylor would overwhelm the ground fighter with their flurries. A body puncher like Julio Cesar Chavez could end it with a liver punch whats funny is Chavez got hit with power punches all the time but could actually take a punch a lot better than the whole UFC. A defensive fighter Like Pernell Whitaker would give a wrestler nightmares by moving all the time and giving angles all the time, and counterpunching the hell outta them. All styles of boxing would hold an advantage in some way or another to an MMA fighter. | |
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Posted: 7/28/2012 1:37:50 PM | | I'm guessing that neither one of you has ever actually seen an MMA match. An elite boxer would have a very difficult time stopping an elite grappler from taking him down, where it would be all over for the boxer. A prime Brock Lesnar would put a prime Mike Tyson on his ass in seconds in an MMA match. Tyson (a huge MMA fan, btw) would probably agree. And to call MMA guys "jacks of all trades" is not really an insult - they do train to be at least effective in every combat range - striking, clinch and ground. This makes the average UFC fighter far more dangerous overall than the average boxer, sorry. | |
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Posted: 7/28/2012 6:55:57 PM | | LOL a prime Brock Lesnar??? That bum out of all the possible fighters MMA has had?? Fedor would have killed that fool. Mike wins via murder. Mike lifted 300lbs men off the cavnvas completely with right hand upper cuts, you do realize that?? Brock like most MMA fighters couldn't take a punch. The ground game is all he had if Mike lands an upper cut he's done A GLASS JAW ON TOP OF BEING SLOW AND AN INCREDIBLY SLOPPY STAND UP. Of all the people you could have picked you picked Lesnar LOL.... | |
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Posted: 7/28/2012 7:03:12 PM | | Yeah jack of all trades in MMA isn't an insult. However, if any of them went into a pure striking art they would get tooled and TKO in 2 rounds like Silva that lost to a complete nobody in boxing. If they went into a Judo competition with multiple decree belt holders they would get there asses kicked too. They train 7 different arts at the same time and execute 4 of those arts wrong LOL | |
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Posted: 7/28/2012 11:28:12 PM | I'm guessing that neither one of you has ever actually seen an MMA match
I have watched a few bouts on TV and their boxing skills are pathetic . They are so slow, have no idea about angles, have glass jaws and have no idea how to proctect themselves
They maybe jack of all trades ......but master of none ..........specially boxing !!!!
It almost hurts to watch these guys try to box so I gave up watching it.
This argument is pointless!!!!! | |
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Posted: 7/29/2012 10:41:14 AM | You guys just don't get it. It doesn't matter (to an extent) how bad Lesnar's stand up is - his takedowns are fast enough to put almost anyone, who is not an elite grappler, on their ass - in SECONDS. No pure boxer would be able to stop him from doing that. And once on the ground, they ain't getting up.
As far as Fedor, I agree that Fedor would have probably wrecked Lesnar as well, although Fedor was an elite grappler in his own right. Fedor, however, would have taken down and submitted Mike Tyson, too. No disrespect to Mike, as he was an excellent boxer, but one dimensional fighters will lose to multi-dimensional fighters pretty much every time.
To call MMA guys glass jawed, when they are getting hit by 6 oz gloves (best case scenario when elbows and knees and slams are legal) is flat ridiculous - I guarantee most of your elite boxers would get KO'd the same way. If they are so sure they can knock out an MMA guy, why hasn't anyone tried? Floyd Mayweather ran his mouth and punked out when he had the chance to prove it. Why? Because he knew that he would get his ass KO'd or submitted, and so do you two. ;)
At least James Toney had balls enough to get in there. | |
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Posted: 7/29/2012 4:42:03 PM | Small MMA guys would dominate large boxers.
Seriously, someone like Paul Harris could easily beat a top boxing HW.
All he would have to do is grab a leg and they would be in the hospital for a week afterwards.
They wouldn't have a clue on how to defend it. | |
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Posted: 8/2/2012 3:02:06 AM | | Especially when you're only taking into account one small aspects of the sport, two fists. If you only have to worry about what the other guy is doing with his fists you don't have to worry about his elbows, knees, shins and take downs, this affects the way you fight, it's MMA not boxing. And when it comes to the level of the striking in MMA you need to take into account mixed martial artists are learning training boxing, kick boxing, muay thai, wrestling and BJJ each of these is an intricate sport that you can spend decades mastering and they have to learn them all as well as doing the strength and conditioning training!! Hardest sport in the world. | |
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Posted: 8/2/2012 7:02:23 PM |
If you only have to worry about what the other guy is doing with his fists you don't have to worry about his elbows, knees, shins and take downs, this affects the way you fight, it's MMA not boxing
I don't believe these boxers have even considered that your stance has to be different..... | |
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Posted: 8/2/2012 10:22:53 PM | You have to get close enough to a boxer to hit with elbows, knees , shins and take downs good luck getting that close without getting bombed with a left hook or a straight right to the chin.
The fastest strike of any contact in MMA, UFC or boxing is the PUNCH. And boxers just happen to deliver the best punches of all three type of fights. A good boxer can slip or block a punch better than any other type of fighter , boxers are also much harder to hit because of this . Then finally theres the speed in the boxers reflexes and hands there isnt an MMA fighter that comes close to the likes of Sugar Ray Leonard , Thomas Hearns , and many many more.
Someone mentioned above that the gloves used in boxing are pillows If you want to think of it that way imagine the damage a boxer would do with six ounce gloves.
I take nothing away from either sport but they are seperate entities and entertainment wise I still prefer boxing.
I may be biased in my thoughts but I dont think an MMA fighter would last one round with a top ten boxer of equal weight .
JMO | |
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Posted: 8/2/2012 10:31:16 PM | | You guys are sure quick to talk about ducking. Considering Dana White refused to let Silva Fight a completely shot Roy Jones Jr.. hahaha if boxers are one dimensional and lose every time to an MMA fighter why did Tim Silvia get owned by Grandpa Mercer? A boxer knowing one art boxing layed Silvia out completely. Silvia Knew more arts according to your theory. Silvia lost, so please explain to me why he lost??? lol | |
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Posted: 8/2/2012 10:39:00 PM | | Proof that training 10 arts and executing half of those arts wrong is what MMA is all about Mr Howl.... It is very sad but its true.... Like I said if any of those precious MMA fighters went into any pure striking sport they would get tooled. | |
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Posted: 8/2/2012 10:49:38 PM | | Well, Kenpoboy im sure they have weak jaws since a complete bum TKO Anderson Silva with THE SO CALLED PILLOW GLOVES YOU MENTION. If their pillows as you say then Anderson's jaw is incredibly weak since a low level boxer knocked him out with PILLOW GLOVES.... by the way if Tyson or Foreman landed on lesnar it would be lights out lol no tolerance to punching is what describes Lesnar the best.... also to the guy that said little MMA fighters could take on boxing heavyweights. That has to be the stupidist statement I've ever heard. I think I lost brain cells when I read that comment. | |
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Posted: 8/3/2012 6:42:16 PM |
Silvia Knew more arts according to your theory. Silvia lost, so please explain to me why he lost??? lol
Silva was and is an idiot.He tried to box with a boxer.He should have played by MMA rules.Anyhoo,boxers are free to come in and take the belts anytime they want eh?lol. | |
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Posted: 8/4/2012 8:47:58 AM | AKATD - It's actually not that hard to get close enough to do a takedown on a boxer at all - other boxers do it all the time, for pete's sake. You're assuming that each and every shot that a boxer throws will KO a MMA fighter? Come on now. All a MMA guy has to do is get close enough to lay hands on the boxer, and down they go. All over from there. As far as punches being fastest, I would say yes - at punching range. But when you add kicks to the equation, then what? Someone like Jose Also can administer vicious leg kicks at lightning speed. Are boxers used to defending those (hint: don't put your hands down to block)? But oddly enough, I do agree with you that most MMA guys would be beaten by decent boxers - AT BOXING. Turn it around, and......well, you get the idea.
Boxer - yeah, you have a point with Mercer and Sylvia, although Grandpa Mercer wasn't exactly fighting a prime Tim Sylvia, either. He was WAY out of shape (310lb fat). That result was disappointing, but not completely unexpected. Anyone can get KO'd in either boxing or MMA. But here's the thing - let's have a rematch and see if that happens again. Maybe it does......maybe not. And I forgot about Dana stopping Anderson Silva from fight Roy Jones jr. But I don't think that has ever been the question. Most MMA fans are aware that specialists will beat MMA guys in that specialty ie; boxers will beat MMA guys *at boxing*, judo guys will beat MMA guys *at judo*, etc. The question always seems to be from the specialists to the MMA guys that the specialists are so good that they will beat the MMA guys *at MMA*, and that is just as unlikely, hence my statements earlier. Sure, Roy Jones would whup Anderson Silva at boxing - just as Silva would DESTROY Jones in a MMA fight. Do you really disagree with that?
And while Duane and I don't always see eye-to-eye on things MMA, he is spot on with his comment. A leg-lock specialist like Palhares would own just about any boxer, at any weight - because boxers, in particular, would have no clue how to stop him. Hell, most fighters in the UFC can't stop him, LOL.
Hope this clears things up. | |
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Posted: 8/4/2012 8:33:33 PM | | How about Machida! He was just toying with Bader until he found an opportunity to throw that counter. Boom, out go the lights! I also really enjoyed the Lauzon/Varner fight, some great action. | |
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Posted: 8/5/2012 7:46:49 AM | | All Im saying is the weight difference would be overwhelming if a punch from a guy that is 50lbs heavier than you lands you're not getting up. The MMA fighter has to be succesful right away otherwise its lights out. So a boxer in his 50s is prime to you??? even if Tim was out of shape Ray is a senior citizen and has had an entire career of getting hit in the head in boxing??? The age difference between them is abismal. Kicks only work if distance is allowed ever Heard of Jake Lamotta??? or Julio Cesar Chavez??? They were both expert body punchers. Legs will completely shut down if enoughbody punches land. It does not take a lot of liver punches to completely take the air out of a persons body. If Chavez, Hagler, Lamotta, or any avid body puncher hits aldo enough times and they will since MMA fighters have poor defence against body work. It will be over quick. Aldo's legs would lose all of their strength and he would stay in one spot until the eventual KO.... Bass Rutten was also a great body puncher and was very succesful with his liver punching. If Bass could do it, and he doesn't punch as accurately as the boxers I mentioned do. What stops Chavez, Lamotta, or hagler from ending a fight like that???? | |
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Posted: 8/5/2012 9:49:09 AM | Boxer, I'm speechless. You are clearly not even reading what I write. I didn't say that I thought Mercer was prime - I was agreeing with *you*, for pete's sake. I was saying that Sylvia wasn't prime, either - the guy was WAY fat and out of shape. And you'd have to see Palhares or Aldo (or Bas Rutten, for a bigger guy with leg kicks) fight to know what I'm talking about. But kicks and distance is *my* point - how is Chavez going to close that gap when he gets leg kicked into oblivion, before he can unload a liver punch or whatever? All one of those guys would have to do is *fake* a low kick, and either shoot it high and hit them in the head, or shoot for a takedown.
Bas did indeed have good body strikes, and hey......have you checked out his leg kicks yet? ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1ePXA5lbqk
How about Marco Ruas destroying Paul Vaarlens with leg kicks?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xD-sYP_95z4
Jose Aldo destroying Urijah Faber with leg kicks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPvNpBepyAs
And here is Palhares. Skip to the 2:00 mark to see why no boxer could stop him:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWqwVhrwriI | |
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Posted: 8/6/2012 4:54:07 AM | | I appologyze for not reading well enough up there. On the other hand Chavez would use his jab or a right hand lead back em up then unload those extremely painful body punches. Just look up Meldrick Taylor vs Chavez and you will see the kind of power those liver punches had. They destroyed Taylor as a fighter. Taylor was urinating pure blood after the bout. Those leg kicks hurt a guy that stays on the outside not an inside fighter like Hagler, Tyson, Or Mexico's greatest JC Chavez. He would right hand lead his way in. Chavez would then bang up the body and the whole air in your body says "excuse me im outta here." Legs, punches, and everything else shuts down. Aldo's kicks after savage body shots would be laughable. I'm standing my ground on Palhares. If Iron Mike or Big Geroge hit him square in the chin im sorry he's not getting up... The only way to take a punch from these guys is to roll with the the way Evander Holyfield did. Evander moved away from them MMA dudes don't move there heads at all. | |
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