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| | Evolution vs Creationism/Intelligent DesignPage 3 of 54 (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41) | | Evolution is not the reason Atheists don't believe in god. There are a whole lot of reasons I don't believe in god. | |
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| Evolution vs Creationism/Intelligent Design
Posted: 8/5/2011 8:07:20 PM | How would historians know what he said on his deathbed,
His children had his life works and followers to consider, could this be why, only Ive read children have done this with famous parents in the past.
Denied anything said later on that would seem out of character to their works/beliefs
Some people are not afraid of death, when they see angels and it gives them a sense of peace.
They may have thought he was dilusional or something.  | |
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| Evolution vs Creationism/Intelligent Design
Posted: 8/5/2011 8:21:50 PM | | Doesnt your soul ache for spiritual nurture, you could pop down to Waterstones and buy some Angel books and things, what would it hurt, if you dont like them, you can simply throw them away | |
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| Evolution vs Creationism/Intelligent Design
Posted: 8/6/2011 2:45:20 AM | Evolution only contradicts with a literal interpretation of Genesis.
Things that can be taken by faith from Genesis while still being able accept evolution.
1.God created the universe.
2.God created man.
what matters to faith in Genesis and not to science
1. man desired to be God
2. man fell. thus introducing original sin and the sinfulness of mankind
3. thus creating a need for a redeemer.
those are just my thoughts. | |
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| Evolution vs Creationism/Intelligent Design
Posted: 8/6/2011 4:05:56 AM |
Hoyo, I won't enter the debate of evolution versus creationism but I do have a question for you. Could you please explain to me how unlife became alive?
That is more inportant than rather or not things can evlove. Nothing can evolve with out first existing.
Can you explain to me the difference between life and unlife? If you're thinking that living things are animate and respond to stimuli, I'd remind you that atoms have been moving around since nearly the dawn of time and they respond to the stimuli of other particles too.
The universe itself has been evolving since it first popped into existence (if that's what it did). | |
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| Evolution vs Creationism/Intelligent Design
Posted: 8/6/2011 9:13:50 PM | "think science has enjoyed an extraordinary success because it has such a limited and narrow realm in which to focus its efforts. Namely, the physical universe." ~Ken Jenkins
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| Evolution vs Creationism/Intelligent Design
Posted: 8/7/2011 8:38:02 AM | | If you thought you heard god talking to you, and lets just say God asked you to kill your children. If you would say no, well then you are probably an atheist, and if you would answer yes, well, then get help - Penn Jillette. | |
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| Evolution vs Creationism/Intelligent Design
Posted: 8/7/2011 10:53:37 AM | For shizzle my lil nizzles, Im a theist , and i beleive we evolved, but who or what put that lil effin thing we evolved from here?
U can say aliens, but what or who made those guys? and so on and so on........ | |
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| Evolution vs Creationism/Intelligent Design
Posted: 8/7/2011 11:10:25 AM | "think science has enjoyed an extraordinary success because it has such a limited and narrow realm in which to focus its efforts. Namely, the physical universe." ~Ken Jenkins
ignoratio elenchi
"An argument which purports to prove one thing instead proves a different conclusion"
This Jenkins fellow makes a good point (inadvertently), …theology (Creationism/ID) does not in any way, shape or form, …belong in science, science classes or any other purview "limited" by the physical universe/natural world/[all] secular pursuits (governance, law, civil matters, human rights, etc.).
Especially considering theology's utter lack of success in these "realms". | |
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| Evolution vs Creationism/Intelligent Design
Posted: 8/7/2011 4:43:46 PM | There is two types of Evolution. MACRO and MICRO. The former, if I give an example is that "Humans evolved from Monkeys" and the latter is "Animals and Humans and Life basically adapted to the surrondings"
Now the Former can not be compatible with Creationism but the Latter you can still keep a link with the Intelligent Design process.
"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." -EINSTIEN
Question is. How does a Watermelon know how to be hard from the outside yet contain so much water inside. Was it taught this or did it just know that I have to be like this. How does a Mango know that I have to be sweet and be yellowish and have a soft outside, again did it make itself like that or was it made to be like that? A strawberry did it know that it had to be in a particular shape or it decided on itself long time ago - 'I guess I'll take the shape like this and taste like that' or was it made to be in that way? So on and so forth.
Another example. If you take one crow from Canada and another crow from Japan or take a crow from England and another crow from Pakistan. What do the crows have in common? That they are able to communicate and have the same "voice" regardless of where they are from. It will crow, it will understand, it will have the same instincts! Even though they are from other ends of the world. And like most animals.
Now MAN - Is the only CREATION born ignorant. When it is born it doesn't know what to do. It is taught for years and years. Do you think if a baby is born in a library and no one is able to teach the child what a library is - will that child be knowlegable if it doesn't know where they are?
Mankind is taught to recite. It is given the free will to do anything and everything. Do you not think there would have been another type of sentient life form living with us if we were evolved? They too would have had billions of ears to adapt and shape themselves and become "intellectual" like us humans are now.
Were we EVOVLED to be conscious beings and guardians of this planet or were we DESIGNED to have dominion on this planet and be guardians and conscious beings. | |
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| Evolution vs Creationism/Intelligent Design
Posted: 8/7/2011 5:26:58 PM | There is two types of Evolution. MACRO and MICRO. The former, if I give an example is that "Humans evolved from Monkeys" and the latter is "Animals and Humans and Life basically adapted to the surrondings"
Now the former can not be compatible with Creationism but the Latter you can still keep a link with the Intelligent Design process.
The "Humans evolved from Monkeys" argument isn't compatible with evolution either, it's just an oft repeated straw man argument used by Creationist/ID proponents, …who haven't a clue about evolution in the first place.
Another C/ID ploy - Quoting Einstein
Einstein also said:
"I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it. "
As well as:
"From the viewpoint of a Jesuit priest I am, of course, and have always been an atheist"
As for his references to "God" he repeatedly clarifies his belief as being in "Spinoza's God". A god which, …is not a creator of the universe, …but of it, basically modern pantheism, …which is an atheist view.
Question is. How does a Watermelon know how to be hard from the outside yet contain so much water inside.
Another myth busted, there ARE stupid questions. They are self-evident …and often pre-loaded with stupid.
Look at a thermos, you put cold water in it, it will stay cold longer, if you pot hot water in it, it will stay hot longer, ….here comes the stupid question: :How does it know?
The rest is further proof that C/ID has no business in education, and too puerile to even consider responding to. | |
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| Evolution vs Creationism/Intelligent Design
Posted: 8/7/2011 6:36:07 PM |
The "Humans evolved from Monkeys" argument isn't compatible with evolution either, it's just an oft repeated straw man argument used by Creationist/ID proponents, …who haven't a clue about evolution in the first place.
I was just stating that macroevolutions revovles around big changes compared to microevolutions. I can hardly care less if you think we come from squids or reptiles or mammals. Stop being so rhetoric about fallacies.
Another C/ID ploy - Quoting Einstein
Einstein also said:
"I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it. "
He also said:
"My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind."
As for his references to "God" he repeatedly clarifies his belief as being in "Spinoza's God". A god which, …is not a creator of the universe, …but of it, basically modern pantheism, …which is an atheist view.
Heck even Richard Dawkin said he is only 99% sure about atheism.
Another myth busted, there ARE stupid questions. They are self-evident …and often pre-loaded with stupid.
Look at a thermos, you put cold water in it, it will stay cold longer, if you pot hot water in it, it will stay hot longer, ….here comes the stupid question: :How does it know?
The rest is further proof that C/ID has no business in education, and too puerile to even consider responding to.
Ha! Why don't you answer the question? Like I said you just know how to dismiss with rhetoric and just calling it stupid.
Are you dumb - did thermos just happen to be. Obviously humans made that. Just like creations there is a creator. Just like a watch there is a watchmaker. You think we just figured out the process of a thermos because that idea was in us right after we were born. Obviously not. WE MADE IT. That's how a thermos knows. But obviously MAN is IGNORANT and only learns what it is taught while everything in nature has the knowledge BUILT in it. | |
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| Evolution vs Creationism/Intelligent Design
Posted: 8/7/2011 7:08:33 PM | Just like creations there is a creator. Just like a watch there is a watchmaker.
You watch a lot of Ray Comfort/Kirk Cameron videos, doncha'?
What next, a picture of the "Crocaduck"?
Try these on for size, all your arguments debunked and exposed as frauds, one stop shopping:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYsnVMjG4lk&feature=channel_video_title
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XHbRGiQccM&feature=relmfu
Why don't you answer the question?
I did, the question is stupid. Actually I'll even quote you to explain why:
That's stupid of you to ask that question then answer with your own thought. If you have a pre-concieved notion about it than just shut up and let it be.
# 61
http://forums.plentyoffish.com/12249634datingPostpage3.aspx
Like I said you just know how to dismiss with rhetoric and just calling it stupid.
It wasn't rhetoric that made your question stupid. It was a loaded question, what it was loaded with was a very stupid premise that a watermelon could "know" anything.
Heck even Richard Dawkin said he is only 99% sure about atheism.
Actually, you're misrepresenting both Dawkins and what "atheism" means.
See: "Burden of Proof"
If you don't wish to be accountable for your fallacious reasoning and intellectual dishonesty, the solution is simple. Stop making these things the basis of your arguments.
That's how a thermos knows.
See, that's the point you missed, …the thermos didn't "know". | |
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| Evolution vs Creationism/Intelligent Design
Posted: 8/7/2011 7:17:16 PM | The "Humans evolved from Monkeys" argument isn't compatible with evolution either, it's just an oft repeated straw man argument used by Creationist/ID proponents, …who haven't a clue about evolution in the first place.
http://www.pinkmonkey.com/studyguides/subjects/biology-edited/chap12/fig12_3.jpg
FYI, that image is posted on my elementary blackboard in a Catholic school. That same image can be found on my elementary science book. Science did essentially said we evolved from apes. Now they're mantra is we did not directly evolved from apes but rather they are our relative. okay. But they did taught us in school that we evolved from apes. mmm kay? Though | |
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| Evolution vs Creationism/Intelligent Design
Posted: 8/7/2011 7:27:27 PM | Science did essentially said we evolved from apes.
We are primates, just like apes.
See and comprehend: "Common Ancestor"
We did not evolve from any existing "monkey", nor does evolution make this claim.
FYI, that image is posted on my elementary blackboard in a Catholic school.
I bet it is. No wonder so many who don't read about science on a post elementary school level, are so darned ig'nant of it. | |
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| Evolution vs Creationism/Intelligent Design
Posted: 8/7/2011 7:27:45 PM | Evolution is distinct from Darwinism.
Darwinism theorizes random mutation and natural selection are sufficient to account for origin of species, but the only selection we can observe in operation is artificial, guided by intelligence for preselected characteristics, mostly in domesticated animals. There, even "random" mutation is going out the figurative window with the introduction of genetic engineering. | |
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| Evolution vs Creationism/Intelligent Design
Posted: 8/7/2011 7:33:38 PM | | I believe in God and evolution and see no reason for a contradiction. I don't pretend to know what God's roll is or if their is just one God, or if God is part of another species alltogether that doesn't even use physical lawys. I do believe that a system designed to evolve goes beyond genius. | |
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| Evolution vs Creationism/Intelligent Design
Posted: 8/8/2011 6:12:44 AM | | I have always thought that science is a religion. I am of course willing to hear what your definition of religion is. Also, those religionist who are threatened by evolution have not really examined their belief....it is a personal experience, it's rational is augmented by the interpretation of those thinkers who have preceded us. | |
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| Evolution vs Creationism/Intelligent Design
Posted: 8/8/2011 1:33:40 PM |
You watch a lot of Ray Comfort/Kirk Cameron videos, doncha'?
What next, a picture of the "Crocaduck"?
UH. No.
LOL. Wow you're quoting me from another thread. Nice. I didn't make that thread - I was answering the person that posted the thread. If you want to quote me chap, than quote within the context of what we're talking about.
It wasn't rhetoric that made your question stupid. It was a loaded question, what it was loaded with was a very stupid premise that a watermelon could "know" anything
It was a simple question. Does a watermelon KNOW to be hard from the outside and hold water in the inside or was it MADE to be as such and like that?
Was that "knowledge" of having that particular shape instilled within the seeds or did all the fruits and veggies learn to be how they are on there own.
See, that's the point you missed, …the thermos didn't "know".
That's the point it DOES NOT know. It was MADE to be like that it was DESIGNED to be like that. | |
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| Evolution vs Creationism/Intelligent Design
Posted: 8/8/2011 1:41:19 PM | I have always thought that science is a religion.
If you want to stretch the definition of "religion", …baseball is a religion, or NASCAR, or "Days of our Lives".
Of course, there's a word for this kind of definition stretching if the main entry definition is already implied via context, it's called: Equivocation.
I am of course willing to hear what your definition of religion is.
There are several, it is wise however, to observe which one is "meant" contextually in order to avoid appearing either dull-wtted, or deceitful.
religion
noun
Main Entry; the belief in and worship of a supernatural controlling power, esp. a personal God or gods
• details of belief as taught or discussed
• a particular system of faith and worship
• a pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance
~ New Oxford American Dictionary 2nd edition © 2005 by Oxford University Press, Inc.
"Science" does not fit the main entry definition, while it can be argued that it fits the last sub-definition, it should be obvious as to the differences in meaning.
More importantly, science is not a competing ideology with religion (theist/deist religion, …for context) as one is rooted in the supernatural, the other in the natural world. Science is also not synonymous with atheism (though it can be shown to be aptheist). Science is however, wholly secular (no pun intended).
It was a simple question. Does a watermelon KNOW to be hard from the outside and hold water in the inside or was it MADE to be as such and like that?
Neither, false dichotomy = stupid Ray Comfort-style loaded question.
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| Evolution vs Creationism/Intelligent Design
Posted: 8/8/2011 2:26:00 PM |
Neither, false dichotomy = stupid Ray Comfort-style loaded question.
I gave you the opposites. Just like evolution and intelligent design. There is no dillema. And if it's neither, is there another alternative? Or in your world a watermelon doesn't exist. | |
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| Evolution vs Creationism/Intelligent Design
Posted: 8/8/2011 3:12:23 PM | It was a simple question. Does a watermelon KNOW to be hard from the outside and hold water in the inside or was it MADE to be as such and like that?
Was that "knowledge" of having that particular shape instilled within the seeds or did all the fruits and veggies learn to be how they are on there own.
Answer is simply neither. Its easy to try and get the answer you want when you limit the possible results based on your own preconceived notion.
The answer is once upon a time there were several watermelons, of these watermelons the ones with the hardest exterior survived far easier, procreated, and then it went on to the next generation. Of that generation there were watermelons still that had even harder exteriors, they survived far easier and then passed their genes to the next generation. They had no knowledge of this, and no one created them in a specific way. The whole, did they know, or were they created is the dumbest argument I've heard thus far.
You can trace this going forward, and backwards as far as you wish. Back to microbial beings, and the beginning of life.
Further more Evolution, and Creationism(Screw the sciency term Intelligent Design) are not opposites. Back and Forward are opposites. Evolution and Creationism are merely ways to try and explain the origin of life. One of them has supporting evidence. There are other ways to explain it as well. Like some people think Mars used to have intelligent life. And people think they screwed up Mars with Fossil Fuels or Nuclear war or whatever. So they sent People to earth to populate it. Yep, they are absolutely crazy nuts. But it is no less crazy than believing some being, created everything we see and know out of spare parts he had lying around(or she, no need why it couldn't have been female, its not like super she-god actually exists anyway.) Took a very proactive, and violent interest in our day to day lives to begin with. Kills everything except 2 of each animal. Tells the 10 things we are never aloud to do to 1 guy. Sends his son down to earth to be killed to show you he will always forgive us, and then say screw it for the next 2000 years for no apparent reason.
They have found strong evidence that Mars would have been able to support life at some point in the past. That means that the Martian origin nuts, now have more evidence than the creationists. Creationists don't have evidence. They have a book. Written by ancient politicians, trying to scare people to obey their way of thinking and telling you what you need to do with your life because it benefits them.
/rant | |
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| Evolution vs Creationism/Intelligent Design
Posted: 8/8/2011 3:55:09 PM | 1 more thing, if the bible is the written word of god, then why is it centralized in a very small part of the planet? Where's the story where God was a buffalo, and told Tonto the Native American Chief to grow corn. Where are the aztecs? Any western civilization. Where they edited out? Did god just not care? Was there truly 1 master race only worthy enough to receive gods word, and then assimilate the rest of the world?
You know, while we are asking loaded questions. | |
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| Evolution vs Creationism/Intelligent Design
Posted: 8/8/2011 3:59:37 PM |
Answer is simply neither. Its easy to try and get the answer you want when you limit the possible results based on your own preconceived notion.
Answer is simply neither because you don't have an answer. All the veggies, fruits and animals have knowledge instilled within them from birth. But mankind is the only creation born ignorant and has to learn for years.
Well you are talking from a Christianity point of view when you talk about:
Sends his son down to earth to be killed to show you he will always forgive us, and then say screw it for the next 2000 years for no apparent reason.
As a Muslim I don't follow.
Who knows if there were Martians - if they were I'd say they were also created. A creationist says everything has been designed by an Ultimate Prime Mover. | |
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