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| | Evolution vs Creationism/Intelligent DesignPage 37 of 54 (14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54) | The problem with ID is that it is a contradictory concept. At its heart, the argument is: How can something come from nothing?
Well, if that were true, where did the designer come from? An even greater designer? And where did he come from?
Oh no, God is eternal. We can handle that concept, but not that time had a beginning. Or that our common ancestor had kids who had kids (to the nth power) who started to look different from their "cousins".
I once had a lady tell me that the Earth was flat.
"And not only that," she told me, but "it sits on the back of a turtle."
"What's the turtle standing on?" I ask.
"You can't fool me," she says, "It's turtles ALL the way down!" | |
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| Evolution vs Creationism/Intelligent Design
Posted: 7/14/2012 12:54:05 AM | 889:
That's an example of a wierd dumb way of thinking on the most basic level. Adapting is evolution. Duh. Why is micro the cause of macro? Because if you take one step, and then another, that's what it takes to take a big long walk a few miles long. And you putting on a jacket when it's cold is a ridiculous parallel to what we're talking about. Yet you're so wrong that we can even use that nonetheless - you only put on your jacket because your ancestors evolved such that you have a brain to invent then make then put on your jacket when it's cold. | |
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| Evolution vs Creationism/Intelligent Design
Posted: 7/15/2012 12:37:53 AM | Here's an appropriate quote from G. Vincent Runyon - a well educated Methodist minister who renounced Christianity in 1935.
The trouble with most people is that they do not orient themselves to new knowledge. Their fault is that they do not assimilate all that they have read or have been taught.
They pigeon hole their findings when these findings conflict with their Bible even though that antiquated reference book is too ancient to be factually authoritative. Most books on library shelves are out of date after ten years.
A comprehension of evolution should make an atheist or agnostic out of anyone. It is over a century since Darwin published his "Origin of Species." Even though biological research, geological research and astronomical research has advanced considerably since then, with further confirmation of evolution, yet many stupid preachers mostly the unschooled ones are poisoning the minds of their hearers by prejudicing them against the acceptance of the evolutionary theory. Using the language of piety their narrow mindedness is a sin. This is an example of one of the many ways religion has long been a stumbling block to progress.
The book from which this quote comes is available here -
Why I Left the Ministry and Became an Atheist - G. Vincent Runyon
http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/vincent_runyon/left_ministry.html
On related matters, he goes on to say -
Incidentally why is a creator necessary? Is it not more difficult to account for a creator than it is to account for the earth's existence? The necessity of a creator or god is a delusion.
True the world is marvelous and interesting. Yet nature though sometimes beautiful is also ugly and violent. Man has had to learn to conquer it for it so often has destroyed him. In primitive times man scared stiff personalized nature and tried to appease it with gifts and sacrifices. That's how the god idea got started and also how priest-craft got started. What an opportunity for a profitable racket!
So many people refuse to let go of the idea instilled in them during childhood that the earth and everything in it is fabricated by the hand of god. Many today hang on to this childish notion for appearance sake. They lack the courage to let go. This indicates what a superstitious hold the god idea has on them. The very word itself should be shelved with such words as witches, ghosts, fortune tellers, astrologers, etc. Rid your mind of supernatural beliefs and your brain will function more clearly.
The mind that is cluttered with the cobwebs of religious superstition is incapable of logical thinking.
Someone is going to ask me what makes the universe tick? What keeps it alive? I may not know much but I would be a fool after having been to elementary school, high school and college to not go along with the scientists who recognize the evolution of the stars as well as the evolution of biological life. I am quite aware that there has to be a fundamental basic material (perhaps chemical) in nature to account for the genesis of things. Energy or chemical whatever it is, it is potent and it sustains us. Scientists reportedly are on the track of it. When discovered this knowledge like all scientific knowledge will be significantly useful. As soon as it is announced by the researchers I predict that like vultures the clergy will pounce upon this materialistic secret of nature and will call it god.
In desperation they will reach for a straw. The preachers will take this information, twist it around, tie it into knots and befuddle peoples' minds so that everyone will be thinking crazy just as they have a lot of credulous superstitious people doing now.
The crux of what I am trying to say is that scientific knowledge too often is not treated with respect by the religious element. The theologians warp it and twist it out of shape and put words in the scientists' mouths. There are a lot of ignorant folks who have more respect for what their pastors dig out of their half baked craniums than what the scientists have dug up with hard work and years of research. Pastors dilute, adulterate and prostitute scientific knowledge by the way they interpret it. Nowadays many of them will tell you that they believe in evolution but with a large BUT. They say BUT god stepped into the evolutionary process when the humans came along and gave man a soul. Just like that. But there is no evidence. Scientists know of no soul. The word soul is a religious invention. These glib talking pastors who pretend to know it all, hand out a lot of other pseudo scientific balderdash, with the result that many people are misinformed.
So much so, that when they find themselves in the company of educated people, they are incompetent to discuss things that every school child should know. Folks who stubbornly hang on to an impersonal god, are only wasting their time and injuring their intellects. They are punch drunk from listening to theological claptrap. Life would be a lot simpler and a lot more understandable for these hesitant people if they would intellectually go all the way instead of half way and have the courage to reject once and for all their long held superstitious beliefs in a supernatural power.
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| Evolution vs Creationism/Intelligent Design
Posted: 7/17/2012 7:15:45 AM | | Evolution is impossible. The theory of evolution would have to break all the laws of science. Scientifically , you cannot get life from dead matter. Also , the idea of evolution goes against the laws of thermodynamics which are true scientific laws and have never been broken. There is no fossil nor molecular level evidence for evolution. On the other hand , creation is also unscientific. God created all things by His power. No science needed. Science is the study of His creation because He created the laws for His creation to obey.. | |
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| Evolution vs Creationism/Intelligent Design
Posted: 7/17/2012 7:30:16 AM |
Evolution is impossible. Wrong.
The theory of evolution would have to break all the laws of science. Wrong.
Scientifically , you cannot get life from dead matter. Irrelevant.
Also , the idea of evolution goes against the laws of thermodynamics which are true scientific laws and have never been broken. Wrong.
There is no fossil nor molecular level evidence for evolution. Wrong.
On the other hand , creation is also unscientific. You are right.
God created all things by His power. No science needed. Wrong.
Science is the study of His creation because He created the laws for His creation to obey.. Wrong.
Six untrue statements out of eight?
You would have scored better just by tossing a coin. | |
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| Evolution vs Creationism/Intelligent Design
Posted: 7/17/2012 7:36:41 AM |
Evolution is impossible. The theory of evolution would have to break all the laws of science.
Its not, and it doesn't.
Scientifically , you cannot get life from dead matter.
You can, but that has nothing to do with evolution.
www.chem.duke.edu/~jds/cruise_chem/Exobiology/miller.html
the idea of evolution goes against the laws of thermodynamics which are true scientific laws and have never been broken.
It has nothing to do with thermodynamics.
There is no fossil nor molecular level evidence for evolution.
Yes there is.
txtwriter.com/backgrounders/evolution/evpage13.html
creation is also unscientific.
Agreed.
God created all things by His power.
Doesn't the existence of god violate the first law of thermodynamics?
What are you, Amish or something Go back and read this thread. When you've learned something, then feel free to participate. | |
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| Evolution vs Creationism/Intelligent Design
Posted: 7/17/2012 7:46:12 AM | Evolution cannot be anything but an idea .There is nothing factual or true beyond the slightest of doubt about evolution .It is nothing but an elaborate myth .It is sometimes based on science ,but it is still science fiction .
Do you ever notice how the purveyors of the myth that is evolution defends it with a religious fervour ? | |
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| Evolution vs Creationism/Intelligent Design
Posted: 7/17/2012 8:13:06 AM | myth
[mith] Show IPA
noun
1.
a traditional or legendary story, usually concerning some being or hero or event, with or without a determinable basis of fact or a natural explanation, especially one that is concerned with deities or demigods and explains some practice, rite, or phenomenon of nature.
2.
stories or matter of this kind: realm of myth.
3.
any invented story, idea, or concept: His account of the event is pure myth.
4.
an imaginary or fictitious thing or person.
5.
an unproved or false collective belief that is used to justify a social institution.
Sounds like creationism to me. | |
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| Evolution vs Creationism/Intelligent Design
Posted: 7/17/2012 8:17:09 AM |
Evolution cannot be anything but an idea .There is nothing factual or true beyond the slightest of doubt about evolution .It is nothing but an elaborate myth .It is sometimes based on science ,but it is still science fiction .
Do you ever notice how the purveyors of the myth that is evolution defends it with a religious fervour ?
I grew up next to, played on and camped near a huge fossil bed. You read a book... and you call what I believe a myth? And I grew up in the Catholic school system, where the biggest proponent of evolution in our school was an elderly nun.
We wouldn't have to defend ourselves at all, if most people were more than barely literate and didn't think easily dismiss-able logical fallacies were evidence. | |
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| Evolution vs Creationism/Intelligent Design
Posted: 7/17/2012 8:28:00 AM | What does growing up next to a fossil bed have to do with this ? Was there a hard disk full of the details of the evolution myth in the fossil bed ?
Animals and plants live,they die ,they sometimes become fossils and people sometimes set up home next to those fossil beds.What is so strange about that?
Look at the definition of myth and say without doubt the evolution theory is not a myth..? | |
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| Evolution vs Creationism/Intelligent Design
Posted: 7/17/2012 8:36:09 AM | Let me get this straight, a man who believes in an all-knowing, all-seeing, all-powerful sky daddy who could reveal himself and end all this but just won't calling a theory that has never been proven wrong and has mounting evidence to confirm it is calling what other people believe a myth?
This is just a thinly veiled attempt at false equivalency, because you believe that if you call it a myth you can dismiss it as easily as we dismiss what you believe. It's not going to work Dwight, we can see through it. | |
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| Evolution vs Creationism/Intelligent Design
Posted: 7/17/2012 8:42:49 AM | Creationists don't worship a god. They worship a book. They think that if some people living in the dirt thousands of years ago wrote something full of lies and contradictions, that's God's work. It doesn't seem to occur to them that maybe the earth and the universe is God's work and should be studied too.
They don't respect themselves enough to be honest about their beliefs.
They don't respect their god enough to be honest about His creation.
They only respect a book that can't go more than a page or two without lying or contradicting itself.
Creationists spend their lives lying about what they believe is their god's creation. And laughably, they think that when they die their god will be all 'hey gee thanks for lying about my work all your life, I hate honest people, I guess I will reward you now.'
There is really no greater insult to a god than to be a creationist and say things were designed this way on purpose. That God wanted species that give birth to thousands of babies at a time and only a few survive - because God likes needless death. That God created structures in people and animals so stupidly that even a child could do better. That God made so much abundant evidence of evolution to trick us into believing it, because He's a deceiver.
Being a creationist means spending your life believing that the god you believe in is a stupid, deceitful, monster - and that's not an opinion, that's just what the world shows.
I think its fine to worship a creator, but why can't you respect Him too? Wouldn't He want you to be honest? | |
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| Evolution vs Creationism/Intelligent Design
Posted: 7/17/2012 8:53:07 AM |
What does growing up next to a fossil bed have to do with this ? Was there a hard disk full of the details of the evolution myth in the fossil bed ? Animals and plants live,they die ,they sometimes become fossils and people sometimes set up home next to those fossil beds.What is so strange about that?
That's a good question. Do you genuinely want an answer or are you just being glib?
Here it is:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanofossil
Honestly bro, you HAVE the internet. Go see for yourself, don't just be a sheep toeing the party line. | |
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| Evolution vs Creationism/Intelligent Design
Posted: 7/17/2012 9:35:05 AM | | Guys. Dwight is a troll. Stop feeding the troll. He'll go away if you ignore him. He's been saying the same thing in any thread that has to do with religion, evolution, etc. | |
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| Evolution vs Creationism/Intelligent Design
Posted: 7/17/2012 9:53:38 AM | @ the person talking about troll,not because someone disagree with you means they are a troll.Welcome to the internet I hope you have a good time.If you would like this forum to be exclusively for atheists,ask the owners of the site to make it so.
@the guy from Wikipedia university,living next to a nuclear plant does not make one a nuclear physicist or even a security guard at the plant. | |
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| Evolution vs Creationism/Intelligent Design
Posted: 7/17/2012 10:16:20 AM | | Look, it was the most layman-friendly explanation I could find in a 2 second google search. There's more, just see for yourself because I don't think you know what you're denying. It sounds like you don't know exactly what the theory of evolution is. | |
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| Evolution vs Creationism/Intelligent Design
Posted: 7/18/2012 4:49:45 AM |
@the guy from Wikipedia university,living next to a nuclear plant does not make one a nuclear physicist or even a security guard at the plant.
So let me get this straight... Wikipedia has no credibility, but the Bible does? Are you sure you're applying the same standards? | |
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| Evolution vs Creationism/Intelligent Design
Posted: 7/18/2012 6:35:37 AM | | Evolutionists falsely proclaim that random mutations and natural selection supposedly have been responsible for evolution , allegedly a creative and progressive process. Natural selection is not creative since it cannot create anything new. ( First Law of Thermodynamics) Therefore , natural selection is a conservative force eliminating the unfit. Random mutational changes in an ordered system is a disorganizing or a randomizing process and is degenerative , not progressive. ( Second Law of Thermodynamics ) The evidence of the so called Cambrian explosion of geological life shows the sudden appearance of all living things ( creation ) while immediately in the so called pre Cambrian ( actually creation rock ) there is found not one single fossil ! This is verifiable scientific evidence of God's creation week as stated in Genesis... | |
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| Evolution vs Creationism/Intelligent Design
Posted: 7/18/2012 8:34:24 AM |
Evolutionists falsely proclaim that random mutations and natural selection supposedly have been responsible for evolution , allegedly a creative and progressive process.
Random mutation and natural selection have been responsible for evolution, so it isn't a 'false' claim at all. The physical evidence of evolution, and predictive power of the idea, is such that it isn't even controversial anymore.
Natural selection is not creative since it cannot create anything new. ( First Law of Thermodynamics) Therefore , natural selection is a conservative force eliminating the unfit. Random mutational changes in an ordered system is a disorganizing or a randomizing process and is degenerative , not progressive. ( Second Law of Thermodynamics )
Evolution, and natural selection, are not operating in a closed system. The two laws of thermodynamics don't even apply.
The evidence of the so called Cambrian explosion of geological life shows the sudden appearance of all living things ( creation ) while immediately in the so called pre Cambrian ( actually creation rock ) there is found not one single fossil !
Untrue. Fossils appear in strata in the exact order one would expect. Primitive life forms in the oldest strata, leading to more advanced forms as the strata becomes progressively younger. Old forms disappear and no 'recent' forms are found in the strata that precedes their first appearance.
This is verifiable scientific evidence of God's creation week as stated in Genesis...
No it isn't. There is no evidence of any 'creation event' - there is only evidence of slow evolution from primitive, or simple, life forms to more advanced, or complex, life forms.
What's more, there is confirmation from various branches of science that life appeared on earth a couple of billion years before the 'genesis' fairytale has it appearing - so it's not only unsupported by any 'evidence' - it contradicts commonly and easily verifiable matters of basic fact. | |
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| Evolution vs Creationism/Intelligent Design
Posted: 7/18/2012 8:57:07 AM |
The physical evidence of evolution, and predictive power of the idea, is such that it isn't even controversial anymore.
Thats what I do not get: On The Origin Of The Species was published in 1856, and was highly controversial at the time (unlike those who studied ghosts and phrenology which were accepted areas of inquiry). 150 years later, these have been debunked and evolution only got more and more evidence in its favour. especially now with genome sequencing. So why is it an issue now- you would think there would be similar issues concerning germ theory or atomic theory.
Nope, just evolution. I wonder what the agenda is... | |
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| Evolution vs Creationism/Intelligent Design
Posted: 7/18/2012 9:21:30 AM | Are the "evolutionists" trying to claim I wasn't intelligent? I was intelligent enough to use evolution in an ongoing Creation wasn't I?
Are the "Creationists" claiming to know how I created everything?...C'mon guys; just how stupid do you think I AM?
WARNING: I'm getting tired of people who pretend to know the Mind of God, SO SMARTEN UP OR ELSE! You have NO IDEA of what I had in mind and I'm getting pissed that you think you do and are trying to pass it off as some kind of "divine truth." | |
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| Evolution vs Creationism/Intelligent Design
Posted: 7/18/2012 10:01:34 AM | Are the "evolutionists" trying to claim I wasn't intelligent?
C'mon, man... you made us too front-heavy, we use the same hole to both breathe AND eat, you put the home entertainment system next to the sewer, and we can only live on 25% of the Earth's surface (less if you don't have a jacket).
Intelligent indeed! | |
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| Evolution vs Creationism/Intelligent Design
Posted: 7/18/2012 2:57:29 PM | fossils are not very accurate in their knowledge spreadding .... and the conclusions from them are constantly changing .... they are more fun than factual at this point ... since we have so few of each of the so called "important" ones.
what is the best evidence for evolution is in genetics ... and as we develop ways to extract genetic material from fossils .... then we will have hard evidence of the scope of evolution on the development of the living animals and plants of today.
At this point most of our knowledge is only speculative knowledge and only set in stone ... because they are fossils. | |
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