| | Time Travel-Is it possible?Page 3 of 8 (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8) | i like reading you thought's on this issue MikeWM very interesting .
in criticism of your writing if i may , IMO a flaw in your thinking ! (it could be my flaw) is that your theorising about the use of time travel technology, but then still encapsulating the resulting reality the TTT goes to, in a thinking related to linear time , what i'm saying is the moment the first TTT actually works!! everything that can possibly every happen , happen's instantly , because there is no linearity left to the concept of time at that point .
Does that make sense ? i can't see how you can theorise/discuss about a TTT actually working and still think linear time as we experience now , will still apply to that age of TT being reality , to me it's like a TTT would trigger the entire future to happen in an instant. | |
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| Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 10/17/2011 11:08:02 AM | I cant quite see why that would happen though
A TT would have the "potential" to go and view any point in time, like someone with a bus pass they could use for any form of transport anywhere on the globe has the "potential" to go and see anywhere (rather than "anywhen")
But having that bus pass doesnt make every point of the globe materialise in their living room the moment they open the envelope the bus pass came in anymore than I think linear time would begin to function differently just because an apparatus to travel through time was invented
For anyone not actually travelling through time (via the apparatus) time would continue (IMO) just like it always has, the only difference being the knowledge that more was infact possible.
As with the bus pass analogy each individual would still have to "travel" to any point in time to witness it, and on arrival linear time would once again be observed during their stay
Infact even the theories about travelling through time more slowly as you approach light speed dont intimate that linear time would collapse because of that, not that once a more normal velocity was reached that "linear" time would or should be any different to that person than for anyone else as the time dilation is only theories to be in effect when the high speed (or for some the accelleration) is still in effect. After which the passing of time would "resume" as normal
if the passage through time was via some form of wave function rather than due to speed, some currently unknown way to manipulate the fabric of the universe then in effect it would be no different to a plane journey whilst sleeping, and on emerging the person would experience normal time again, with only the journey itself "seeming" to contradict the "law" of linear time
I wouldnt ponder over it too much though, Its sooooo far from any area of expertise. And is literally no more than my feelings or belief of how it would work and I wouldnt claim it was anything more than that
I just think that we dont know enough to categorically claim any "theory" or even just a "belief" is actually right nor wrong, as we can only base assumptions on our current level of knowledge that doesnt even allow for the possibility of time travel anyway which kind of limits the examination of possibilities right out of the gate
Although some do theorise that a black hole "could" potentially have this effect although most black holes I am aware of are an immense mass rather than an actual "hole" something approaching a baby singularity. So surely the "eye" wouldnt be a gateway to another part of the galaxy or time, but simply a lump of incredibly dense matter you splat onto like a bug on a huge windscreen anyway lol
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| Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 10/17/2011 11:37:30 AM |
we can only base assumptions on our current level of knowledge that doesnt even allow for the possibility of time travel anyway which kind of limits the examination of possibilities right out of the gate
LOL.. on a funny note i read somewhere that there was schemes for Time Travel that would work lol.. They just require god like technology , for example if you could create a cylinder with the diameter of Saturn and make it 10au in lenght and spin it at 95% the speed of light , it would wrap spacetime around it , like toilet paper on the role .
Then as you travelled up the transverse dimension you would be travelling in time lol and i dunno find yourself talking to Yvette Mimieux in the year 1,000,000,000,000 ad | |
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| Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 10/17/2011 11:42:54 AM | That would be a nightmare though
As soon as you create something like that with any similarity to a toilet roll holder you would have astronomic arguements break out over whos job it was to replace the time roll and which way round it should be hung
Those alone could cause the collapse of society as we know it lol
So obviously female scientists would have to be banned from having any involvement on such a project :) | |
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| Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 10/17/2011 11:54:18 AM |
So obviously female scientists would have to be banned from having any involvement on such a project :)
Very true lol .. nice to see us Midland lads can laugh and joke about such a serious thread . | |
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| Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 10/20/2011 6:45:56 PM | I don't know how to travel backwards & forwards in time
Here's how to see what occured in the past without actually time travelling:
Travel away from the Earth exceeding the speed of light in the proper direction. At a specific point you will catch up with the light reflecting off the earth at the given time you desire. Now turn around and look back at the earth with a telescope with high enough resolution and voila. You can see that it was Col Mustard in the study with the lead pipe | |
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| Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 10/22/2011 6:48:22 AM | | Going forward in time is infact very easy from a pure physics stand point, maybe not based on our technology but the physics for it is actually very simple. Going backwards in time is what causes problems with the idea. | |
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| Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 10/22/2011 7:22:12 PM |
Going forward in time is infact very easy from a pure physics stand point
Yeah. We're doing it now. And now. And now. | |
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| Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 10/23/2011 7:16:28 PM | Einstein's theory of special relativity does permit travelling forward in time faster than we perceive in our daily lives. For an object travelling close to the speed of light, time travels slower for that object relative to an observer.
So for example, say you got on a space ship that could travel close to the speed of light and it flew around the Earth for a week (in the space ship) the time that would have passed on Earth might have been 100 years.
Also, if the faster than light neutrinos, detected at OPERA from CERN, get confirmed that means it may also be possible to travel backwards in time too. | |
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| Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 10/28/2011 2:16:23 PM | I was thinking about this for a week.
Going forward in time should not be possible. Not because of the laws of physics, not beacuse god said no, and not for a lack of evidence.
It should not be possible because we have not made our choices yet. Each decision we make will create a new and different future. This leaves 2 possibilities.
1) our future is pre-determined.; I hate this thought. It means we have no free will.
2) the is an infinite number of possible futures - so how can you travel?
The past is similar. While Mike suggests we may have already changed the past to avoid a worse futuren, he did say we would be unaware this occured. With reference to Hitler, as Mike stated, he may have been sent back to be a lesser evil, to prevent something worse from happening. (I'm not a fan of Hitler, don't take this the wrong way) As this might be true, we would not know it and the future folk who did that would no longer know they had done it and it's reasonable to believe they might now do the same thing to prevent Hitler's existance.
Further to that, the idea that future folk might have the discipline and good sense not to use time travel...or restrict it to future time travel... really? Maybe if Hitler had succeeded in wiping out everyone but his beloved Arian race - maybe man would be that disciplined. Or if the Dark Ages Catholic Church successfully destroyed science... (course, then there's no time travel, eh!) But common man can't even resist McDonalds. And thats nowhere near as tempting as time travel. Or donuts.
As stated above, I like my free will and I can see no way that time travel and free will can co-exist.
However, if a supercomputer was built and it contained all data, not just known to man, but all... we could theoretically produce a modelling program that could process the billions of factors and decisions that might be the outcome of one decision thereby predicting the future with a certain degree of accuracy a certain % of the time. This would not wipe out free will, just give a reasonable guess as to what would occur.
But no real time travel | |
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| Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 10/28/2011 2:50:30 PM | On the subject of free will I honestly believe thats an illusion/delusion to be perfectly honest
Short of some kind of "spiritual" belief, everything, even "supernatural" things would infact be "natural" and therfore governed by various scientific laws most of which we arent even aware of yet
So each thought we have, each decision we make however "complex" or "abstract" they might seem are in effect the only thoughts we could have and are the only decisions we could make as decided by the chemical and electrical processses in our brains
My feelings are that if you could quantify every single influencing factor on an ocean down to a sub atomic level and below and then created a model of every water molecule, fish and other constituent in that ocean to exactly match the position of "everything" at an instant in time that the model and the real ocean would match each other perfectly over any time frame
Because for anything else to happen, something outside of science would have to influence it
The same IMO also applies to each individual human, and therefore every interaction they have, every decision they make, every feeling they have
So as much as we "feel" we make our own choices I really dont think we do, but actually think that everything we have ever experienced and everything we have done till now has already decieded what we will do next, and that will then in an equally scientifically based way contribute to what we do after than etc etc ad infinitum
So in effect if it was possible to make a sub atomic snapshot model of the entire planet and every external force acting on it with unerring acuracy we would have a machine that could then show us ANY point in both the future or the past
As a kind of example of that, as we gain more knowledge of the cosmos we become far more able to predict even quite complex things like the paths of asteroids and comets even accounting for the gravitational effects of them passing by other stellar bodies, because theyre governed by the laws of physics/nature whatever you want to call it
When they do something new, we look for why until we find out
Although we can accept "those" types of things have a predetermined future based on physical laws, and even though we know our entire being is made up of molecules that are also individually governed by sets of physical laws our self image still leads us to the assumption that we have the ability to make a "free" choice, rather than one dictated by which neurons happened to be firing and which neural pathways our life experience has caused to form
If the ONLY influencing factors in existence are infact natural laws then by virtue of that no matter how complex or seemingly chaotic they might be there is no chaos at all, and everything that will happen no matter how abstract it might seem is the ONLY thing that could ever have possibly happened
Although admittedly it would never feel like that, as we are rather attached to the notion of free will | |
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| Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 10/28/2011 2:58:35 PM |
Going forward in time is infact very easy from a pure physics stand point, maybe not based on our technology but the physics for it is actually very simple. Going backwards in time is what causes problems with the idea
Isnt it just the idea of going back in linear time thats the problematic concept though?
And even then partly because light speed is considered to be a constant and to some extent a maximum
Apologies for kind of stepping into the realms of "sci fi" here, but even if light speed was a constant in normal space suppose we found a way to travel outside of normal space as is often claimed to be a possibility for black holes or worm holes to instantaneously connect two points that in linear space would be maybe millions of light years apart
So if that distance was travelled in a fraction of a second even though the relative distance would be nill through the aperture theres nothing ruling out that compared to relative space the effect couldnt mean you have travelled so fast you actually emerge proportionately to the difference in distance vs light distance before you even entered it
Or if time is infact a "wave function" is that the correct term? That rather than travelling back in a linear fashion it could be found that we could create direct links to a point in space time, although rather than the norm where you would appear in the same place I would suspect you would actually emerge in the same place in "space" but that it would be a LONG way from where our solar system now sits if that did ever become possible | |
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| Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 10/28/2011 6:14:00 PM | MikeWM, I've read all your posts on here. Clearly you've spent a lot of time thinking about this. As for me, I've been huffing various chemicals in my dirty factory for the past week.
So I think I'm going to head out and kill a few more brain cells (in a positive way this time) and consider what you have said.
In the mean time, please to elaborate on how your ideas of "free will" or lack there of effect your thought patterns during the decision making process. Do you ever find yourself in indecision? | |
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| Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 10/28/2011 6:17:22 PM | I'm blond, so my thought patterns tend to be heavily influenced by anything shiny
Indecision only really occurs if both brain cells fire up at the same time, but thats a very rare occurence  | |
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| Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 10/28/2011 6:44:49 PM |
All I know is I want my time machine to look like a big blue British police telephone box that's bigger on the inside than the outside! Oh, and a really hot travelling companion, preferably one that looks like Nicola Bryant did back when...well, you get the idea!
I'll take one with Louise Jameson.
I don't see what the big deal is about time travel. I'm constantly travelling into the future. Literally every moment of my life I'm traveling into the future. I like to think of energy as momentum in the time direction. The day I stop traveling in time is the day I have zero energy.
And let's suppose someone did travel back in time. Would he even know it? As he moves back in time all the chemical reactions in his brain that created his memories would be undone so he wouldn't be able to remember the future. | |
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| Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 10/30/2011 6:57:30 PM | It seems time travel has already been invented.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDq62_-ncgc
I believe this discussion is over | |
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| Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 10/30/2011 7:52:56 PM | | I think that while we are incarnate time travel is a highly unlikely possibility. However, once freed from the body, I believe our consciousness is without limit. Space and time are no longer constraints. And since all knowledge will once again be accessible for us, positioning our awareness at a certain point in the past would be a small matter. We might decide to observe the building of the Great Pyramid on one occasion and view dinosaurs during the time they were on earth on another. However, travelling any great distance into the future might prove difficult, even as pure consciousness. Too many variables are subject to caprice. | |
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| Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 10/31/2011 3:43:09 AM | If you could travel faster than the speed of light, you couldn't travel through time personally but you could see what the Earth looked like in the past.
Consider, you have a space ship which can travel four times the speed of light.
So, you get in your space ship and travel 2 light days away from the Earth. It would only take you 1/2 day to get there. When you turned back and looked at the Earth you would see Earth as it was 36 hours before you left. It took the light from Earth 2 days to travel what only took you 1/2 day.
Now get out your Tachyon Laser ( naturally you have one of those too ) which beems Tachyons at four times the speed of light and start beeming pictures of the 2 day old Earth back.
Since it only takes the Tachyons 1/2 day to travel 2 light days, the people back on Earth will see the Earth as it was 2 & 1/2 days ago.
Not 48 hours ago because 1/2 day would pass for the Earth to recieve the images. | |
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| Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 10/31/2011 8:53:30 AM | Tachyons are purely a theoretical particle though still arent they?
The idea though that anything can move faster than light if its assumed that time slows as you approach light speed is actually endlessly interesting
Would time in effect cease to move in either direction at lightspeed? If light speed was exceeded what then? Would you relatively speaking be travelling backwards through time?
If that is the case, and then if tachyons rather than theoretical particles did infact exist could they be in effect like a photon, but one generated by the future of the universe moving backwards in time
So in the same way we say if you were x light years from earth you can see the past, if you were x tachyon years from earth and could view tachyons would you then be able to see the future? | |
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| Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 10/31/2011 10:38:20 AM | Tachyons are still theoretical as far as I know. I don't think anyone knows how much faster Tachyons would travel than light, considering they exist.
If you had a telescope with perfect resolution which would allow you to see details on a planets surface from any distance, then the further away from the Earth you got the further back in time you could see.
From 1000 light years away, you could see 1000 years into the past.
Maybe, there are alien civilizations who are right now observing the Roman Empire on Earth.
It would be easy to send a message to yourself in the future but not the other way around.
You could also simply write yourself a note, leave it in a deposit box, and wait for it. | |
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| Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 10/31/2011 12:33:05 PM | Yeah I get that
But as most of this is purely hypothetical anyway its claimed and infact to varying extents proven that the closer to light speed you go the slower your relative passage of time would be
So, that would give you a decreasing linear relationship of some gradient, which, if movement faster than light was infact possible could also theoretically continue decreasing and actually become a negative quantity
So is you took light speed to be a point where time was null, niether going forwards or backwards then progressing past light speed would/could mean the slope continues into negative time, and relative to the rest of space youre actually travelling backwards in time
More simply though, that would mean tachyons if they exist could potentially be doing that, so in the same way photons viewed one year from earth would show you what earth was like in the past, if you could view tachyons in a pictorial representation they "could" show you how something will look in the future, and fhe further from the object you are the further into its future you would be looking
I guess that would require that when a photon collides with something it would in effect create a new photon that is reflected/emitted from the surface plus a tachyon also
One heading forward in linear time at the speed of light, and the other going backwards in time but at more than the speed of light
Not in anyway claiming thats a "scientific" idea, just an interesting one you understand
And I guess rather than possibly clouding the statement by using the term "tachyon" something like antiphoton might be better | |
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| Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 11/1/2011 10:45:21 AM | Well frankly I doubt it.
Going twice the speed of light simply means you can go between 2 points in 1/2 the time a photon does. No matter how fast you go, you still can't get between point A and point B before you left.
Now, for traveling at very fast speeds some unusual things happen.
If you were in a space ship, traveling very fast, you don't notice any difference in the passage of time. But, if you look out the window, you will notice the rate of time for the rest of the universe is speeding up.
People outside will notice no difference in their time. But, looking in the window of your spaceship, they will notice your time is slowing down. You are moving in slow motion.
This has been confirmed by hard experiments.
Time and space are the same thing. Time and space are mutual.
Once your spaceship hits exactly the speed of light, people outside will see that you have completely stopped.
You, going at exactly the speed of light notice nothing unusual for yourself. However, when you look out your window you will see the universe has disappeared !
Without time there is no space, without space there is no time.
How does the universe exist for a photon ?
Going faster than light doesn't mean you will reverse time and go back into the past.
Once you reach the speed of light, the universe disappears and there is no past to go to. | |
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| Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 11/1/2011 11:10:32 AM | Actually nobody knows what will happen if you travel faster than the speed of light, its still classed as a theoretical speed limit
And we only assume you cant travel backwards in time, its another thing we dont actually know. other things we used to think we knew were than if you drove in a car the speed would kill you, that flight was impossible and that travelling faster than the speed of sound would turn your internal organs to mush
Infact if I remember correctly space wouldn t dissapear at the speed of light, I'm fairly sure you would see things that were behind you whilst looking forwards actually
The idea that theres no time without space doesnt really seem relevant and just looks like a random statement thrown in to up the word count though,
But what youre actually referring to with the universe "dissapearing" isnt that it somehow magically ceases to exist or gets sucked through a wardrobe star into the galaxy of narnia, its to do with you travelling at the same speed as the photons themselves and not actually being able to visually see them rather than them ceasing to exist, So yes there would be a universe to "go back" to, it hadnt actually gone anywhere in the first place.
That was a bit like saying "If I close my eyes the universe doesnt exist anymore" which obviously it does otherwise blinking would be apocalyptic | |
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