| Reincarnation in the Bible
Posted: 7/23/2005 7:55:02 AM | | just curious - if "ye must be born again" means reincarnation what exactly was Jesus telling nicodemus? you must be reincarnated? is reincarnation a choice? how does one go about becoming reincarnated? does it take effort, faith, choice? can i hasten the process in order to enter the kingdom (which was the reason nicodemus came to Jesus). and if He did mean reincarnation, do all of you new-agers out there therefore follow the teachings of Jesus? | |
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| Reincarnation in the Bible
Posted: 7/23/2005 9:30:50 AM |
mrchrisg: "just curious - if "ye must be born again" means reincarnation what exactly"
the problem with what is being done here is a single line is being taken out of the context of the bible and being reinterpreted without understanding the surrounding passages... sure you could swiftly usher in your spiritual damnation by reinterpreting the bible to say what ever you want to... but then why are you using the bible?? - What I am trying to say here is, if you wish to see something that plainly isn't there, why attempt to twist the words of the Judeo-Christain bible to serve your purpose??... Assuridly as I am typing this here - There are spirits that what you to do this, and God has allowed YOU the choce to choose what you believe, or act upon...
I kind of though that randyrescues made the point plainly clear... and it was only the post right before yours!?
randyrescues: The Bible says that if you deny me (Christ) before men, then I will deny you before my Father.
Revelation 22:13- I an the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Reincarnation holds no place in the Bible, just a spiritual rebirth. I dont care if you have a Catholic bible or a King James bible, there are no passages in there that suggest reincarnation.
To have an understanding of the word, you need to have wisdom. To have wisdom you need to have Faith.
Think about this for a second;
It takes no more faith to believe that the bible speaks the truth than the ammount of faith it takes to beleive in any other "religion" - you've made your choice.
Considering this thread, randy posted a great passage:
Matthew 7:23: "I will profess unto them, I never knew you, depart from me, you workers of iniquity." | |
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| Reincarnation in the Bible
Posted: 7/23/2005 9:40:29 AM | Born again Pagan...and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again, so on and so fourth...you get the idea....  | |
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| Reincarnation in the Bible
Posted: 7/23/2005 9:43:14 AM | | Other religionists are not happy until they get the bible or Jesus to confirm their own beliefs, they can't rest till they have accomplished that..Rather than confirming what the bible says about them...Scripture "takes a licking and keeps on pricking" (their consciences).. | |
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| Reincarnation in the Bible
Posted: 7/23/2005 11:29:41 AM |
what is your intention here? - to preach new age... why twist scripture, or use lies to get a point accross?
If you actually read the bible... pick any translation other than the JW one (it's more fabrication than not - which is why no Christian scolars would accredit it.) ... I'd suggest an easier reading one like the NLT, but pick one that makes sense to you - and read it.
I have no interest in preaching New Age, since I'm an Atheist, not a New Ager. However, I find the evidence in the Bible to be quite compelling that the Bible teaches reincarnation. I personally don't believe in reincarnation. As it happens I have read the Bible (KJV) and also studied it quite a bit (which is how I became an Atheist in the first place).
Verse #8 - Malachi 4:5
You wrote: "Promises that Elijah will return. Not someone like Elijah, but Elijah himself."
Hmm... ok, I'll re-quote it...
Look I am sending you a prophet Elijah before the great and dreadful day the Lord arrives.
I'm not getting anyting of the "return" of Elija that you stated... back to misinformation 'eh?
So how do you not see a return of Elijah when Malachi says it and Jesus confirms it and Jesus says that it was John the Baptist? What do you think the word "send" means? | |
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| Reincarnation in the Bible
Posted: 7/23/2005 11:35:48 AM |
Nope, no implication here; rather this is a verse that refers to HIS pre-existance to Abraham - this refers to the Holy Trinity, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit... since the three are one, and God pre-existed his creation... I'm sure I don't need to explain this one further... ;)
Actually you need to explain this one further because the Trinity concept makes no sense and is contradicted by Scripture. However, such a discussion deserves it's own thread. | |
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| Reincarnation in the Bible
Posted: 7/23/2005 8:56:06 PM | John 9:1-3 Is the man's blindness part of his Karmic debt? Jesus says no, but doesn't rebuke the Apostles for their apparent reincarnation presupposition.
The Apostles seemed to hit the Nail pretty well dead on the head.
what is your intention here? - to preach new age... why twist scripture, or use lies to get a point accross?
Twisted which Time/Instance? | |
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| Reincarnation in the Bible
Posted: 7/23/2005 8:59:50 PM |
John 9:1-3 Is the man's blindness part of his Karmic debt? Jesus says no, but doesn't rebuke the Apostles for their apparent reincarnation presupposition.
this was probably taken from the gospel of Tommy, not usually accepted as part of ya "regular' bible...Proves nowt.. | |
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| Reincarnation in the Bible
Posted: 7/23/2005 9:10:37 PM | John 9
1And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.
2And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?
3Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.
This is what John 9.1-3 states in the Bible, it is of a blind man and he is made blind for God's purpose oly then did he realize that it's pupose was for Jesus to cure him. The apostles asked," why is he born blind and was it because he or his parents sinned?"
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| Reincarnation in the Bible
Posted: 7/23/2005 9:51:39 PM | | use wiccapedia and check out the difference between a letter and a gospel.. | |
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| Reincarnation in the Bible
Posted: 7/24/2005 12:39:59 AM | John 9: 1. And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.
2. And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?
3. Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.
Jesus assesses that a Man is blind from his Birth.
Man born blind because he had sinned? Sinned before Birth?
Jesus does not dismiss the Question posed by his Disciplines as a non-possibility:
"Master, who did sin, this man ... that he was born blind?"
... anymore than he dismissed the question of the Apostles:
"Is the man's blindness part of his Karmic debt?" Jesus says no, but doesn't rebuke the Apostles for their apparent reincarnation presupposition.
... just food for thought ...
But then "The Works of God" is not opposite to, nor invalidating "Re-incarnation". | |
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| Reincarnation in the Bible
Posted: 7/24/2005 12:49:47 AM | Ticket . thats correct he did not outright deny re-inc.. however, there is a scripture that may hold a key to the disciples question :-
1 Numbers 14:18 I, the LORD, am not easily angered, and I show great love and faithfulness and forgive sin and rebellion. Yet I will not fail to punish children and grandchildren to the third and fourth generation for the sins of their parents.
This is more likely the thinking here.. | |
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| Reincarnation in the Bible
Posted: 7/24/2005 12:59:18 AM | Meaning the parents Ticket not the life before. God said if you sin against me I will see that your childrens children will suffer for generations to come. | |
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| Reincarnation in the Bible
Posted: 7/24/2005 1:03:28 AM | The KJV version has it as :-
(John 9:2 KJV) And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?
so in my thinking they were assuming that it was the the parents had sinned and this was punishment to the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd generation.. | |
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| Reincarnation in the Bible
Posted: 7/24/2005 1:06:17 AM | Greetz 'lottabottle' & 'Dei Gratia'
Yet I will not fail to punish children and grandchildren to the third and fourth generation for the sins of their parents.
Part of the Question involved Query of "Sin of the Man prior to being born", a Question which Jesus answered, but did not dissmiss as a non-possibility.
Edit: so in my thinking they were assuming that it was the the parents had sinned and this was punishment to the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd generation..
Sin is not the same as Punishment.
The Question concerned the Sinning of the Man prior to Birth.
... next question is, can we be sure those were the words said? If not, it would also throw into Question anything else in the Bible that was said. Considering the Disciples did not have the same Level of Language Education we have today, how accurate/reliable could the Verbal-to-Written Translation expected to have been?
(post moved) | |
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| Reincarnation in the Bible
Posted: 7/24/2005 1:39:34 AM | Well in the context, the parents sin would result in the punishment of the offspring..So a sinning parent may result in blindness in the child (whether the child has sinned or not) or it could have resulted from the blind person sins...Ya got to remember the disciples were brought up on a diet of the old testament, most probably from the reading of the Torah in the synagogue..their retention of what was taught may not have been that comprehensive..Maybe i'm not following you to well its late and I'm getting tired.
" how accurate/reliable could the Verbal-to-Written Translation expected to have been?"
Good question..a lot of that is in the faith that God would keep the transmission resonably in tact..but that is a whole subject in it self..no original NT scripts have survived earlier than 150-200 AD if I remember correctly...but one as only to look to the dead sea scolls to see that transmission of information was quite good..
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| Reincarnation in the Bible
Posted: 7/24/2005 2:02:21 AM | or it could have resulted from the blind person sins...
Jesus had already established the Man was blind at Birth.
If the Blind Man had committed Sins, he could only have done so prior to having been born, opening the door to the possibility of "Re-Inc"
a lot of that is in the faith that God would keep the transmission resonably in tact..but
I have never found a Relation between Faith and Understanding of Words/Language.
And supposing it is correct on the basis of Faith, then the Question involving Query of "Sin of the Man prior to being born" would also be correct, a Question which Jesus answered, but did not dissmiss as a non-possibility.
Where do we draw the Line between People who claim God talked to them vs. Reference to the Bible. Which takes priority, which is deemed to be correct in the event of a Conflict?
Telling People to send $$$ for some Ethiopian Relief Project because God supposedly told them to do so, does that amount to being a 'Divine Reference' on Par with the Bible?
The 'Make-Belief' is getting thicker and thicker ...
We started with a Reference in the Bible and we arrive at "Faith Communication Transmission Systems'.
Then I'd say, stay in bed on Sunday Morning, tune in to "Faith God Broadcast' save yourself a couple of Bucks in Gas driving to Church.
But then, for those that don't "Faith-Tune" in too well, but like to stay in Bed anyways, there are always fine TV-Folks like Jim Baker, whom God speaks to directly ... or at least used to.
... but 'Re-Incarnation' as a possibility is definitely ruled out ... or is it really nothing other than what we do and do not want to believe? | |
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