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 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 301
When to tell your date that you have a FWB?Page 13 of 34    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34)
Surely you can't be serious. Do you honestly think using a date to fulfill your sexual needs, then relegating them to your past after the act is somehow demonstrating more integrity than having a FWB?

Of course! If I'm dating someone who has an fwb, then she's sleeping with someone else while she's dating me, she's being deceptive, which I find unacceptable. That fwb is not a sexual partner in her past. That fwb is a sexual partner she is sleeping with while dating me, so he's right there in the present and she's being deceptive about it to keep me from walking away if I knew about it. That is a lack of integrity. If she had been having sex with guys she won't ever see again once she met me, those guys are in her past and I am not going to care about the guys in her past.

highly doubt your dates would see it that way.

Then what you're saying is that I'd care about a woman's sexual past, which is not true and I think you know that. On the other hand, if you didn't see it that way, then you are admitting you would care about a guy's sexual history. I find it strange that you would not care if a guy you were dating was sleeping with another woman, but you would care about a woman he was no longer sleeping with.

Having one-night-stands with people you date and barely know does NOT make you morally superior to someone with a FWB.

I never said it did. What is morally superior is that those one night stands were sexual partners that are in a person's past while the fwb is not. Dating me while sleeping with an fwb and not telling me because I'd walk away is morally reprehensible and fundamentally no different than cheating.

You and several others seem to think this is just about who it is the person is having sex with. (Either that, or you're deliberately misrepresenting what I've said because you'd have no argument withount inventing one.) The problem with having an fwb while dating is that the fwb is not a sexual partner in someone's past. The fwb is still there and a woman would be sleeping with him while dating me. I would not date a woman who is sleeping with someone else after she met and yes, I do think that my position on that is morally superior. It doesn't involve deception.

If it doesn't bother you to date a guy while he's sleeping with another woman, all I can say is your expectations are quite low.

You know what's odd about the strong reaction to someone saying they are engaged in an FWB between relationships?

The strong negative reactions have mostly not been about an fwb, per se. The negative reactions have been about dating a person while that person is having sex with an fwb. It would be just as objectionable if it was sex with anyone else, but the objection to the fwb in particular is because the reason she has the fwb is to have sex with someone regularly while dating guys she expects to be relationship material. If she was having sex with dates and then moving on, that sort of overlap could never arise.

But you risk this whether they have ever had a FWB relationship or have never, ever had one. This is meaningless.

It's only meaningless if you completely lack any ability to understand that more people would react badly toward you for doing something like robbing a bank than would if you got a speeding ticket. So, you might find that meaningless, but since I am aware of how what I do affected the number of woman who would find what I was doing acceptable, it wasn't meaningless for me and it had a lot of practical value.

It is AGAIN just approaching this situation from a position of fear and insecurity.

Well yes, in the same way that I'd rather get a speeding ticket than get caught robbing a bank. The penalty for a speeding ticket is a slap on the writst. The penaly for robbing a bank is pretty severe, so I'm a lot more afraid of robbing a bank than speeding.

 forums1
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 302
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When to tell your date that you have a FWB?
Posted: 12/1/2011 5:43:33 PM
If it doesn't bother you to date a guy while he's sleeping with another woman, all I can say is your expectations are quite low.


And the OP herself said that if a guy admitted he had a FWB (or presumably also if she found out somehow w/o him telling her), she would "run for the hills".

As someone brought up in another thread, its often a good idea to put yourself 'in the other person's shoes' and think how you would react if you were them. She'd "run for the hills" if the situation were reversed - so I wonder, if he told her after weeks of dating, when she was ready to hop into bed with him and do the wild thing, and "oh yeah, I'll stop with my FWB now that we're getting 'serious'", what she would do? And, well, if she'd still "run for the hills" and perhaps feel lied to - well, why would she think it'd be any different in reverse? Don't expect others to accept from you that which you wouldn't accept yourself.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 303
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When to tell your date that you have a FWB?
Posted: 12/1/2011 6:10:42 PM

If it doesn't bother you to date a guy while he's sleeping with another woman, all I can say is your expectations are quite low.

I guess it never dawned on me that a guy would not be having sex up until he met me, or that I should know or he should fess this up to me. I don't have expectations of someone I've yet to learn about. Granted once we're been out a few times and want to see where it goes I think we should both focus on each other, but it's odd to me that anyone wouldn't be dealing with a regular whatever into early on in dating someone they end up with.
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 304
When to tell your date that you have a FWB?
Posted: 12/1/2011 6:18:51 PM
I guess it never dawned on me that a guy would not be having sex up until he met me,

You know that is not what I said. I've repeatedly said that what a woman does up until she met me was in her past. My objection isto what she's doing after she met me. The objection to the fwb, per se, lies in the difficulty of cleanly cutting ties with an fwb to be completely free of entanglements when meeting someone, so that the relationship with the fwb overlaps with dating someone. If the ties with the fwb were cut even 1 hour before meeting me, that would put the fwb in the past and I wouldn't care any more than if it was someone else.

Granted once we're been out a few times and want to see where it goes I think we should both focus on each other, but it's odd to me that anyone wouldn't be dealing with a regular whatever into early on in dating someone they end up with.

I think it's more odd to most people to think that someone they're dating is also still sleeping with another person unless the only reason they're dating is for sex. I certainly wouldn't care if a woman was sleeping with an fwb or even several if all I wanted from her was to get laid occassionaly. If I'm interested in a relationship with someone, I DO expect her to not be sleeping with anyone else after we first meet.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 305
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When to tell your date that you have a FWB?
Posted: 12/1/2011 6:42:33 PM

You know that is not what I said. I've repeatedly said that what a woman does up until she met me was in her past. My objection isto what she's doing after she met me. The objection to the fwb, per se, lies in the difficulty of cleanly cutting ties with an fwb to be completely free of entanglements when meeting someone, so that the relationship with the fwb overlaps with dating someone. If the ties with the fwb were cut even 1 hour before meeting me, that would put the fwb in the past and I wouldn't care any more than if it was someone else.

I know you didn't say that. I guess since any fwb's are friends first (hence the "f"), while the sex may stop, technically the friendships wouldn't. In your scenario I also don't think until I met someone and had some interest in dating them I'd cut one off. In my case my FWB's are usually exes, which means they have even less of an impact on anyone as opposed to a friend being that the dating has already happened and failed.

I suppose the ultimatum to me seems a bit controlling, as you'd think a woman who was into you and wanted to know more would naturally lose interest in an FWB in the face of a new attraction and genuine interest. It comes off as needing proof of something in a setting where you know almost nothing about the person you're meeting (if you haven't been talking to them a good amount of time).

How does the FWB topic even come up - would you just assume there is one and demand she be rid of him before you buy the coffee? This is of course all out of curiosity.
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 306
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When to tell your date that you have a FWB?
Posted: 12/1/2011 7:49:51 PM
don't hide stuff from people you wanna date.


If one decides that they want to date someone recently met, then they should not be giving or getting"benefits" from some other person. So there is nothing TO hide.

For those who want to have their cake and eat it too, by dating someone AND having one or more FwBs ongoing as well, I agree, the presence of that FwB is a material fact and should be revealed. I suspect that many times this will result in the person that was in the DATING category, walking away. But if one just conceals the FwB, and the dating interest finds out about the FwB, the dating interest is gonna walk away,anyway.

IMO, if you have a FwB, and you meet someone that you want to date, then the benefits part of the FwB is ended,and probably the friendship should be dialed way back as well. No fair trying to keep a FwB backburnered.

Its' my position that if one has terminated a FwB upon beginning to date some other person, then one does not need to be revealing the FwB. Or is "not hiding things" actually an expectation of a complete run-down of one's dating and sexual history for the past 2 years?

I am opposed to the idea of dating someone with intention towards a serious relationship, AND maintaining an ongoing FwB. If one is simply social dating, "playing the field" or has no interest in dating towards committed longterm,then it probably doesn't matter what one does or doesn't disclose.

Again, F(riend) w(ith) B(enefits) is not the same as a F(uck) B(uddy).

With a FwB, there certainly can be affection, shared activities, even sleepovers. What it is with a FwB, is that both parties are agreed that this is not a prelude to a committed,ongoing, longterm relationship.
There is no requirement that someone in a FwB MUST be on the lookout for "dating for a real relationship" opportunities.

It is entirely possible for 2 mature adults to be friends, have sex, share some companionship and affection,WITHOUT it having to be a path to a committed longterm relationship. This disinterest in finding a "real relationship" may be a short-term or transitional-period thing. Or it might be a situation of truly enjoying one anothers' company,all the while knowing that this would not be a match-up that could sustain a longtem committment.

Yes, sometimes there may be hurt feelings, disagreements,etc-don't these things also happen in your other friendships or attachments( family, business or activity associates, neighbors)?

ou don't tell your date about your FwB, because you make a decision to stop having the FwB BEFORE you begin dating someone. I'm not going to call a first meeting a "date". I think it is possible if you meet someone IRL and there is an interest in dating, to be able to make the decision to stop the benefits of the FwB before the dating actually starts.
If it is someone you've been in contact with via internet dating sites, its' pretty much one's own judgement call whether to end the benefits before actually meeting the person,or not. But I see no reason to reveal a FwB on that first meeting, any more than one would bring along their credit report, medical records,etc to the first meeting.

But I don't "date" with serious intentions, AND keep a FwB going as well.
If others want to date seriously AND have a FwB, thats' their business-but if their object of serious intentions finds out and walks away, that's on the person who tried to date AND have a FwB concurrently.
eta

you'd think a woman who was into you and wanted to know more would naturally lose interest in an FWB in the face of a new attraction and genuine interest.

From all I've experienced and observed, that is generally exactly what happens!

Now, I realize that there are people of both genders who will date AND keep an FwB, but I do not think that this is as common/ongoing with women as some men see to think it is-a bit of a projection thing, maybe?
Personally, if someone meets a new person, starts dating them with intentions of seriousness, AND chooses to keep a FwB going on the side at the same time...something and/or somebody is out of whack.
My position is that if you begin dating someone with a mutual intent to become exclusive/serious, then the FwB ends immediately-at least the benefits do, and you DON'T try to keep the FwB "on the back burner"-friends don't do shit like that to friends.
Cindy O
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 307
When to tell your date that you have a FWB?
Posted: 12/1/2011 8:50:46 PM

I suppose the ultimatum to me seems a bit controlling,

Well, trying to date women who had no entanglements while not actually having to issue such an ultimatum was the difficult part, since having to talk about that before meeting would indeed come across badly. I imagine women would easily get the wrong idea of what that all about.

as you'd think a woman who was into you and wanted to know more would naturally lose interest in an FWB in the face of a new attraction and genuine interest.

Well, if she was that into me, she wouldn't want to see the fwb once she met me, so I'm not sure where the control thing comes in. I didn't want to be in relationship with a woman who was sleeping with other guys at any point we were dating, from the first meeting onward. Rather than try to sort out the gray areas that people in this thread seem to want to include for reasons of self interest, I decided it was better to just create a bright line and leave it up to each individual to decide if she was ok with where I drew that line.


It comes off as needing proof of something in a setting where you know almost nothing about the person you're meeting (if you haven't been talking to them a good amount of time).

I'm sure it could come off that way if one just brought it up out of the blue as if it was particular to that one person who might see it as some sort of unusual premature attachment rather than a general expectation of anyone I'd date. That's why I stated my general expectations in my profile in wording that I think is crystal clear. I wasn't asking someone for proof of anything. I was telling any woman who wanted to date me and possibly end up in a relationship with me, that a relationship was only possible if we dated exclusively from the outset. That covered everything from fwb, dating other guys or even NSA sex with others as being ruled out. If that wasn't acceptable to someone, she didn't have to date me.

How does the FWB topic even come up - would you just assume there is one and demand she be rid of him before you buy the coffee? This is of course all out of curiosity.

The topic never needed to come up and there was no need to demand anything nor issue any ultimatums: If you want the possibilty of ending up in a relationship with me, we date exclusively from the outset. Otherwise, we can date for casual sex until someone who wants a relationship wants to meet me. I assumed everything was understood. If they ``creatively misread'' something or didn't ask about something specific, that was their problem. They had plenty of time to ask before meeting me in person.

Having to do that was somewhat inconvenient, but it was the best I could come up with to avoid the kinds of deliberate vagueness being promoted by several people in this thread.
 m_church
Joined: 11/8/2007
Msg: 308
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When to tell your date that you have a FWB?
Posted: 12/1/2011 8:57:28 PM

Agreed if you start dating a new person and you have interest that an FWB would naturally go by the wayside...a couple dates in there may be an overlap (but until your relationship is sexual, it's not really a bad thing)

So then you'd be ok, with spending the evening, dinner, dancing etc knowing the guy was with his FWB the night before, then have a few kisses... He says , " See you tomorrow...." kisses you goodnight, then he goes over and fcuks his FWB, and so forth...


but there are some here who seem to have a problem with someone having an arrangement (FB, FWB, NSA, whatever) while dating in general, even before they meet someone they might have some interest in.

If I am taking a woman out, perhaps try and kindle some romantic feelings etc, then I think I'd have a little trouble if at the end of the evening, she goes to her FWB and gets rid of any sexual or romantic tension that we might have been building....
And if I found out after the fact that's what she had been doing... then I'd dump her...
 The_Standard_Model
Joined: 7/14/2007
Msg: 309
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When to tell your date that you have a FWB?
Posted: 12/1/2011 9:00:56 PM

Bull-fluff.

It's not "approaching this situation from a position of fear and insecurity"; it's "not being a stupid-head by doing something the other person may not like, then thinking that I can argue them into liking it, because I have dictionary definitions on my side, and therefore their feelings are WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!!!"

Yes, every relationship runs the risk of failing for one reason or another. So, why DELIBERATELY INCREASE the risk by knowingly partaking in an action that one is aware that "most men won't understand..."?


Of course it is approaching from a position of fear and insecurity. To not do something that you WANT to do for fear of offending a person that you are not in a commited relationship or sleeping with yet, muchless have not even met is ridiculous. If that person would not date you because you did something legal and 'ethical' that you wanted to do BEFORE they are with you then they are NOT MEANT TO BE WITH YOU. YOU ARE NOT COMPATABLE. It would be a relationship that is doomed to failure anyways. I can't talk for anyone else but I believe that you should live your life being HONEST to whom YOU are and find someone that thinks that the way that you live your life is wonderful. Not deny yourself things that you want to do, or do things that you do not want to do in hopes of impressing a potential mate.


Yes, every relationship runs the risk of failing for one reason or another. So, why DELIBERATELY INCREASE the risk by knowingly partaking in an action that one is aware that "most men won't understand..."?

Another poster expressed the answer very eloquently (as he ALWAYS does).
He said that while he may go out on a first or even second date with a woman even though he is currently talking to other women on POF, he would not tell them that he was talking to other women as they may not understand. Too often people become irrationally jealous. Thet FACT is that it is not reasonable to believe that the SINGLE person that you are going on a date with may be dating/talking to other people here on POF. They have lives outside of you and are suppossed to! To get worked up about the fact that you may not be the only option is silly. Actually it is operating from a place of fear and insecurity. It is the same idea as asking your partner who many partners he/she has had and then getting uset at the answer. What they did before you became exclusive with them is not your business as long as you are physically safe (and they did not bang your dad or something). To like a person until you find out that they have involved themselves with other people before you is not reasonable. Of course if she held the World's Record for largest one woman gangbang on four different occasions that is one thing. But really you liked her before you knew. It is a fools errand to even want to know a person's past history (beyond knowing whether they are disease free) if the answer will upset you. Far better to not know and go on.
 m_church
Joined: 11/8/2007
Msg: 310
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When to tell your date that you have a FWB?
Posted: 12/1/2011 10:28:48 PM

What they did before you became exclusive with them is not your business as long as you are physically safe (and they did not bang your dad or something).

What they did is one thing... having to agree with it is another....
As far as starting a relationship, we get to choose whatever bothere s us or doesn't bother us....
Having someone else decide for you what you should be concerned about it definately not good....
As for the "bang your dad" parameter, it shoots down your argument totally.... Either her past history matters or it doesn't.... You can't have it both ways... Otherwise you're equally entitled to get upset about ANY part of her past....
For that matter, anything I choose to get upset about is also my business... no matter what it is... And the same rights apply to her...

It is a fools errand to even want to know a person's past history (beyond knowing whether they are disease free) if the answer will upset you. Far better to not know and go on

It's only a fool's errand if you think it is...
Some others may choose to make an informed decision based on the information... Not due to insecurity or judgement... they just may have their own preferences...


Oh, and " (beyond knowing whether they are disease free) " is subjective too...
A woman may have had, and since been treated for an STD, that no longer shows up on a STD test, but may have impacted her otherwise...
Particularly for younger couples, several STD's may impact fertility... doing damage between the time off infection, through diagnosis, through treatment... particularly if she only gets tested yearly....
HPV, can go undetected, and her body may get rid of it on it's own without treatment, but leave her vulnerable to death from Cervical cancer... or throat or anal cancers... the same can be said for for the man getting penile cancer...
Hepatitis if it becomes chronic, can lead to liver failure down the road...
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 311
When to tell your date that you have a FWB?
Posted: 12/1/2011 10:42:10 PM

Of course it is approaching from a position of fear and insecurity. To not do something that you WANT to do for fear of offending a person that you are not in a commited relationship or sleeping with yet, muchless have not even met is ridiculous.

That's pure unadulterated crap. Everyday people do things they don't want to do or don't do things they want to do in order to pursue a long term goal that could be compromised by pursuing some short term gratification. That's not insecurity or fear. It's mearly what intelligent people do to enhance their odds of suceess at what they are trying to achieve by evaluating all of those things and making the most intelligent tradeoffs. It doesn't suddenly become insecurity and fear when applied to dating.

He said that while he may go out on a first or even second date with a woman even though he is currently talking to other women on POF, he would not tell them that he was talking to other women as they may not understand.

If there is one thing that pisses me off it's someone assumes he/she knows better than I do what I will or won't understand and what I should or shouldn't know. I'm perfectly capable of being given all of the facts and deciding for myself what to make of that information. The name for that is manipulation.

To get worked up about the fact that you may not be the only option is silly.

I agree, so just tell me that information and let me make my own decision without getting worked up.

Actually it is operating from a place of fear and insecurity.

Fear and insecurity on the part of the person who withholds information. If the person withholding was secure and unafraid of what difficulties that information wold cause, he/she would not withhold it.

What they did before you became exclusive with them is not your business as long as you are physically safe (and they did not bang your dad or something).

The fact that even you have to throw in some exceptions is a good indication that what is or isn't some else's business is rather arbitrary. To that extent, I just don't delude myself into believing that there is some consensus on this and as far as I'm concerned, my business is whatever I want it to be. Period. If someone doesn't like that, tough. She can date someone else.

To like a person until you find out that they have involved themselves with other people before you is not reasonable. Of course if she held the World's Record for largest one woman gangbang on four different occasions that is one thing.

Yet another example of telling us what is not reasonable and then carving out an exception for a case where you think it is reasonable. Cut the pretentious crap and admit that what is and isn't reasonable is rather arbitrary. I define what I consider reasonable.

if the answer will upset you. Far better to not know and go on.

If there is one thing that is stupid it's the bliss through ignorance attitude. The facts are what they are. Remaining ignorant of a fact doesn't make the fact go away.
 The_Standard_Model
Joined: 7/14/2007
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When to tell your date that you have a FWB?
Posted: 12/1/2011 11:39:19 PM

What they did is one thing... having to agree with it is another....
As far as starting a relationship, we get to choose whatever bothere s us or doesn't bother us....
Having someone else decide for you what you should be concerned about it definately not good....

You are going a bit out into the range that EVERY single sexual act that she has EVER experienced is now your concern. If she says that she does not feel that whomshe slept with is your business... then she is not the right womanfor you, which I clearly state in the post that you are quoting.


As for the "bang your dad" parameter, it shoots down your argument totally.... Either her past history matters or it doesn't.... You can't have it both ways... Otherwise you're equally entitled to get upset about ANY part of her past....

Nonsense. You are not ever entitled to know a list of the names of her previous sexual partners. but I included the 'dad' part to cover extremists that will say what if she slept with your dad. If she knows that she slept with your dad yesterday she should morally mention it to you as most folks would reasonably have an issue with that. But the key word that you use over and over again is 'entitled'. you are entitled to no information other than that which is pretaining to your health and safety. It is fair that you demand that of your partner. The rest is not an entitlement. It's a would like to know and will you share that information with me. In real world application. In scenario A. you ask your partner that you are planning on sleping with for the first time 'have you been tested for STDs, how long ago and what were the results?'She is required to answer those questions and refusal to answer those questions is reasonable grounds to NOT sleep with her for anyone. You are ENTITLED to these answers as it impacts the your health and safety.
In scenario B. you ask your partner that you are planning on sleeping with for the first time for the names of the last three people that she slept with and how long ago it was. Your partner is NOT obligated to answer these questions. You are not ENTITLED to these answers as they do not impact your health nor safety. They are simply your curiosity at her past relationships that you are now going to hold up for judgment.


Oh, and " (beyond knowing whether they are disease free) " is subjective too...

Uhhh that is knowing whether you are safe. You can only test so much. There are no guaruntees my friend. If you are going to engage in sexual activity there is ALWAYS a risk. A risk of STD, a risk of pregnancy, a risk of her being married or playing with your emotions. Your desire to not deal with any reasonable risks that are simply part of dating and sex do not entitle you to her sexual past beyond safety matters. Frankly none of the things that you brought up pretain to a FWB relationship in any way shape or form.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
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When to tell your date that you have a FWB?
Posted: 12/2/2011 3:53:28 AM

So then you'd be ok, with spending the evening, dinner, dancing etc knowing the guy was with his FWB the night before, then have a few kisses... He says , " See you tomorrow...." kisses you goodnight, then he goes over and fcuks his FWB, and so forth...

If we've just met and only gone out once or twice, it wouldn't occur to me that he wouldn't have some sort of sex on speed dial. Men just do. They may not discuss it a whole lot - but as single men, they just do. I totally expect that a guy I've just met would. I might be surprised to find out a guy wasn't having any sex at all since his last relationship. It's just a given to me that most people have something on standby (if they want it). If a guy's doing this two months in? OK - that's a different story. Early on though the sexual tension you feel for the new person usually overshadows the old standby thing you have in place, whether you cut the sex off or not, so it becomes a moot point. Meaning, if a person's keeping an FWB around while dating you for a long time - they aren't that into you. If they are into you, the FWB will get boring, fast.

If I am taking a woman out, perhaps try and kindle some romantic feelings etc, then I think I'd have a little trouble if at the end of the evening, she goes to her FWB and gets rid of any sexual or romantic tension that we might have been building....
And if I found out after the fact that's what she had been doing... then I'd dump her...

Your response here was to my mentioning you barely know this person. If you've known her a week, how would you know this or why would it concern you? What if compared to any attraction to you the FWB is just no good and she naturally discontinues it? This happens with dating more than people know - bottom line is you want someone to want you and no one else - and while that's OK to want, stuff doesn't happen in such a black and white fashion.

And again, a true FWB WAS a friend prior to any sexual activity - and therefore remains a friend after the sex is taken from the equation - so no longer having sex doesn't wipe this person from the picture (unless they were never really a friend in the first place). In this thread what people are describing is more of a FB, NSA situation.
 carptopus
Joined: 11/9/2011
Msg: 314
When to tell your date that you have a FWB?
Posted: 12/2/2011 5:24:34 AM
You don't see the inherent problems with

Early on though the sexual tension you feel for the new person usually overshadows the old standby thing you have in place,

In order for it to "overshadow" the ol' standby it has to be greater than with the ol' standby.
You (or they) have to be more attractive than the ol' standby. So you are in competition there. You may not even realize it.

And how confusing do you think it's going to be if the sexual tension is there on monday, relieved monday night, and then on tuesday "hey, where did it go? I knew this spontaneous date thing was a bad idea. I must have done something wrong. So this date sucks, that sexual tension isn't there." Then on Friday "WTF?! Sexual tension is back. This person's giving me mixed messages. Meh. I think they are playing games. I'm outta here."


If they are into you, the FWB will get boring

IMO it just forces the standard for attraction higher for potential new dates, what needs to be there to motivate change has to be greater than if the old standby wasn't in the picture.

Kind of like a new car. If you have a 2007 and a 2009 comes along, but it looks pretty much the same as a 2007 except for maybe 2 MPG better and a new radio do you buy the 2009, or do you wait a while to get the redesigned better model better engine 2010.
If you did not have a car at all, and you could afford the 2009, would you buy it or wait until you could afford the 2012?


a true FWB WAS a friend prior to any sexual activity - and therefore remains a friend after the sex is taken from the equation - so no longer having sex doesn't wipe this person from the picture

IMO this is least common or most impractical.
IME the FWB was not a "real" friend prior to any sexual activity, they were a pseudo friend hanging around trying to get into the FWB. Basically, they're "friends" in the sense they pay you with the social facade in order to get the benefits of a more serious relationship without the commitment or responsibility.

People get into the relationships they want with the people they want.
Unless they see relationships or people as simply extensions of themselves and are simply using people. If people are simply objects for selfish solipsistic fulfillment then there is absolutely no problem arbitrarily changing the boundaries of the relationship at any time.
Otherwise people want to start out with one clear focus (in the very least in their own head) and remain consistent with that.


In this thread what people are describing is more of a FB, NSA situation.

IMO and IME they are usually the same. People simply delude themselves or rationalize the relationship into a FWB because of the more prevalent negative associations with the relationship labels.
"Friends" makes it feel more special and less dirty therefore more acceptable than FB. "NSA situation" sounds like a CSI show.

IMO and IME more often than not as soon as the sex is cut off, so is the "friend" social payment.
Unless the FWB knows the other one (and their continuing failed relationships) and knows it's "really" just a matter of time before they come back because it's happened more than once.
Or if one of them considers themselves the "nice" person, they stick around for a while...and then slooooowly fade away. They mostly stuck around not to be a friend, but to maintain their self image. i.e. "I don't really want to be your friend anymore, but I don't want you to stop seeing me as a nice guy/girl."
 top_hill
Joined: 10/12/2011
Msg: 315
When to tell your date that you have a FWB?
Posted: 12/2/2011 6:27:50 AM
I wouldn't tell the other person. If we went out on a few dates and there was mutual interest, then I would end the FWB before things got really serious between myself and the other person.
 Halcyon_Skies
Joined: 2/1/2009
Msg: 316
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When to tell your date that you have a FWB?
Posted: 12/2/2011 7:04:29 AM
It's only a fool's errand if you think it is...
Some others may choose to make an informed decision based on the information...

Not due to insecurity or judgement... they just may have their own preferences...

Oh, and " (beyond knowing whether they are disease free) " is subjective too...
A woman may have had, and since been treated for an STD, that no longer shows up on a STD test, but may have impacted her otherwise...
Particularly for younger couples, several STD's may impact fertility... doing damage between the time off infection, through diagnosis, through treatment... particularly if she only gets tested yearly....
HPV, can go undetected, and her body may get rid of it on it's own without treatment, but leave her vulnerable to death from Cervical cancer... or throat or anal cancers... the same can be said for for the man getting penile cancer...
Hepatitis if it becomes chronic, can lead to liver failure down the road...


I agree with the above----which is one of the reasons why I've always been concerned about dating men who make a habit of engaging in one-night-stands and other forms of casual sex outside of committed relationships. For that reason, I don't make a distinction between these men and men who have a FWB (who also could be sleeping around). They're both dealbreakers as far as I'm concerned.

From a moral standpoint, I also don't view a guy who pumps and dumps his dates after spending one night together as possessing any more integrity than the guy who keeps a FWB, if neither guy discloses his sexual history.

Not all men engage in casual sex between relationships. My current partner dated and slept with only one woman after his divorce before he met me.
 m_church
Joined: 11/8/2007
Msg: 317
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When to tell your date that you have a FWB?
Posted: 12/2/2011 9:22:47 AM

If we've just met and only gone out once or twice, it wouldn't occur to me that he wouldn't have some sort of sex on speed dial. Men just do. They may not discuss it a whole lot - but as single men, they just do. I totally expect that a guy I've just met would.

I might...
I have several male friends who don't though... They even more so than me would be less likely to accept a relationship with a woman who's in a FWB.... So your expectation is possibly flawed....


I might be surprised to find out a guy wasn't having any sex at all since his last relationship.
Why? Men are just as capable of wanting a relationship before sex. They are as equally capable of not wanting a FWB.


Early on though the sexual tension you feel for the new person usually overshadows the old standby thing you have in place, whether you cut the sex off or not, so it becomes a moot point. Meaning, if a person's keeping an FWB around while dating you for a long time - they aren't that into you.

Early on in the relationship, you are not that important... I can equally see the person deciding that the 'effort' isn't worth it and at the first sign of the relationship being in any way difficuly, they'd just dump the person and rever back to the FWB....


And again, a true FWB WAS a friend prior to any sexual activity - and therefore remains a friend after the sex is taken from the equation - so no longer having sex doesn't wipe this person from the picture (unless they were never really a friend in the first place).

There again is a problem. If a girl I am seeing had a FWB then at some point, she would either have to discontinue contact with the FWB or end the relationship with me.



Your response here was to my mentioning you barely know this person. If you've known her a week, how would you know this or why would it concern you?

I may not know at the time... but if I was to find out later I would still break up with her as I'd look at it as a character flaw on her part. The fact is, I may not find out.... then again, I might...
Hell, maybe even her FWB might tell me..... in the hopes I'd break up with her and let him rekindle the FWB....
If I found out in the opening phase of the relationship, I wouldn't have any problem dumping a woman I barely know...

In that regard, a FWB is more of a problem that if she had been in a relationship. At the end of a relationship, the usual process is to discontinue all or most contact with the Ex....
 m_church
Joined: 11/8/2007
Msg: 318
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When to tell your date that you have a FWB?
Posted: 12/2/2011 9:24:50 AM

Early on though the sexual tension you feel for the new person usually overshadows the old standby thing you have in place, whether you cut the sex off or not, so it becomes a moot point

What sexual tension??????
Where would the sexual tension be if every time it builds up, the person goes and gets her tension released with her FWB????????
 SirLaughsAl0t
Joined: 10/26/2011
Msg: 319
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When to tell your date that you have a FWB?
Posted: 12/2/2011 9:38:21 AM
@womaninprogress:
And again, a true FWB WAS a friend prior to any sexual activity - and therefore remains a friend after the sex is taken from the equation - so no longer having sex doesn't wipe this person from the picture (unless they were never really a friend in the first place). In this thread what people are describing is more of a FB, NSA situation.

Can you be sure that FWBs can go back to being just friends? It seems to me that one of them involved wanted more than to be just friends in the first place and settled for just benefits in the hopes that something else would develop over time.

Which brings up another point, how could you be sure that if they don't start up with the benefits somewhere down the road? A few drinks... maybe an arguement...


It would be a red flag for me and I would be gone. When I meet someone here, I know that they will be talking and/or meeting others, but I don't automatically assume they are sleeping with them. Yep, red flag.
 Arlo_Troutman
Joined: 9/26/2009
Msg: 320
When to tell your date that you have a FWB?
Posted: 12/2/2011 9:51:14 AM
(canam miles) If that person would not date you because you did something legal and 'ethical' that you wanted to do BEFORE they are with you then they are NOT MEANT TO BE WITH YOU. YOU ARE NOT COMPATABLE. It would be a relationship that is doomed to failure anyways.


Very true. So, I have to ask why a "certain user" is giving himself an anyeurism trying to tell me that a FwB is not a relationship?

Look, I don't care if a FwB is, or is not, a relationship. Hell, you can call it a "hootenany yum-yum" for all I care. It's the act of a person engaging in a FwB while I'm dating her that I find objectionable, not the label that one pins on it. I also strongly object to the notion that, since it's not a "relationship" (assuming that the "certain user" is right), a person in a FwB wouldn't be lying by omission if she failed to tell me about it when I asked her if she was in a relationship. I'm not going to throw my arms up in the air, grin sheepishly and say, "Boy, you got me! Since it's not a 'relationship', guess you're free and clear, and I have to keep on dating you!" I was born at night; I wasn't born last night...


Nonsense. You are not ever entitled to know a list of the names of her previous sexual partners.


Right. But, a current FwB is not a previous sexual partner.

Arlo...

(have they spiked the water with silly pills?)

ETA:

(ladyc4) Its' my position that if one has terminated a FwB upon beginning to date some other person, then one does not need to be revealing the FwB. Or is "not hiding things" actually an expectation of a complete run-down of one's dating and sexual history for the past 2 years?


Right. Her history, whether from 2 years ago, or 2 hours ago, is not my concern. But when her "history" is "current events", then it very much is my concern.
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 321
When to tell your date that you have a FWB?
Posted: 12/2/2011 9:55:31 AM
From a moral standpoint, I also don't view a guy who pumps and dumps his dates after spending one night together as possessing any more integrity

I'd agree that anyone who engages in ``pump and dump'' sex lacks integrity. However, if both parties are on the same page about there being nothing more than that one night together, it's not a ``pump and dump.'' I didn't realize anyone had suggested that as a way of having sex, so I'm not sure why it's relevant.

than the guy who keeps a FWB, if neither guy discloses his sexual history.

What is really funny about that is I've always found women to be the ones who are reluctant to disclose any sexual history. I've always been willing to disclose mine in whatever detail someone wishes to know it.

This happens with dating more than people know - bottom line is you want someone to want you and no one else - and while that's OK to want, stuff doesn't happen in such a black and white fashion.

Nothing happens in a black and white fashion unless someone puts a little thought into what is and isn't acceptable and makes sure that there's a clear line seperating the black from the white. That is not so difficult to do unless someone is deliberately creating gray areas to cover his/her ass later.

And again, a true FWB WAS a friend prior to any sexual activity - and therefore remains a friend after the sex is taken from the equation - so no longer having sex doesn't wipe this person from the picture (unless they were never really a friend in the first place).

That's true, so a true fwb in that sense would rule someone out for a relationship with me. I don't date women who remain friends with exes and previous partners.

In this thread what people are describing is more of a FB, NSA situation.

Which would be fine with me as long as those people were in the her past when I met her. I'm willing to leave the past in the past, where it belongs. I only have an issue with the past when it overlaps the present and I draw the line between the past and present at the point in time I meet someone. I make that known up front, so there's never any confusion about what that means and no excuse for misunderstanding it.
 Arlo_Troutman
Joined: 9/26/2009
Msg: 322
When to tell your date that you have a FWB?
Posted: 12/2/2011 10:17:06 AM

(womaninprogress) None of those things matter unless they affect you or hurt you in some way.


I wonder why some people have such a problem with the individual being the arbiter of what "hurts" or "affects" him/her?


If it's not going to affect you in the here and now and it's past history - why go there? I agree someone telling you something isn't your business is rude (though true, as something someone did before they dated me isn't mine either), but you aren't required to dredge up your past either.


Because *I* (that's ME, MYSELF) will decide what I want and do not want to know. *I* will decide if I'm going to put up with a "None of your business, Nosy-Rosy!" answer. Why is the *INDIVIDUAL* having the right to decide for him/herself what to accept, and what not to accept, such a bone of contention with so many people? Do you have an authoritarian streak we should know about?

Arlo...
 snoochie-boochies
Joined: 11/13/2011
Msg: 323
When to tell your date that you have a FWB?
Posted: 12/2/2011 11:10:46 AM
I don't see anything wrong with FWB's (for male or female) if it's filling a gap inbetween relationships but i think if you seriously want to date for a relationship then it's not giving the other person a fair shot at things if you're nipping off for a bit of fun inbetween dates.

Whenever i've had FWB's it's the one rule that i stick to - no fooling around whilst dating for a potential reltionship. The dating may go pear shaped, and the FWB may move on in the meantime but rules are rules and if i was dating someone i would expet them to be doing the same.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 324
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When to tell your date that you have a FWB?
Posted: 12/2/2011 12:48:54 PM

I might...
I have several male friends who don't though... They even more so than me would be less likely to accept a relationship with a woman who's in a FWB.... So your expectation is possibly flawed....

I doubt it. I think more men do this than don't

Why? Men are just as capable of wanting a relationship before sex. They are as equally capable of not wanting a FWB.

Because I have heard more from men than women that while they'll get involved if someone comes along they want to get serious with, they'll take the sex in the meantime. A few in these forums have said as much as well.

Early on in the relationship, you are not that important... I can equally see the person deciding that the 'effort' isn't worth it and at the first sign of the relationship being in any way difficuly, they'd just dump the person and rever back to the FWB....

I guess if everyone I met was pretty much the same type of guy, it wouldn't make much difference. But myself and a lot of women I know get excited over a new guy and would totally want to see where it goes as opposed to an FWB that has no promise of being anything but sex.

There again is a problem. If a girl I am seeing had a FWB then at some point, she would either have to discontinue contact with the FWB or end the relationship with me.

If she knows a guy 20 years, he becomes an FWB for a couple months, she meets you and wants to see where it goes, tells him hey I met someone and I'm not doing this anymore, she's supposed to never associate with him again from a short term arrangement - or is this about all male friends or people in her life?

I may not know at the time... but if I was to find out later I would still break up with her as I'd look at it as a character flaw on her part.

Even though you've already said you've done the same? Hm.

The fact is, I may not find out.... then again, I might...

Many don't. And since it doesn't involve you - who cares?

Hell, maybe even her FWB might tell me..... in the hopes I'd break up with her and let him rekindle the FWB....

Any FWB who's going after their arranged partner's prospects isn't a true FWB - he's some other form of sex partner. A true FWB wants what you do, which is to avoid serious attachment.

If I found out in the opening phase of the relationship, I wouldn't have any problem dumping a woman I barely know...

Cause it's not all about you - who she barely knows. LOL, OK.

In that regard, a FWB is more of a problem that if she had been in a relationship. At the end of a relationship, the usual process is to discontinue all or most contact with the Ex....

The usual process for people who don't want their new prospect to talk to anyone they've ever dated, or wanted to, or married, or had a crush on. The usual process for you, maybe - it's not universal.

What sexual tension??????
Where would the sexual tension be if every time it builds up, the person goes and gets her tension released with her FWB????????

You can be attracted to a new person to the point where a standby (and that's what an FWB is) doesn't seem all that interesting anymore. And yes you can have sexual tension for someone you've yet to sleep with even though you're having sex.

Can you be sure that FWBs can go back to being just friends? It seems to me that one of them involved wanted more than to be just friends in the first place and settled for just benefits in the hopes that something else would develop over time.

If I can do it, and have friends who have done it, then others can do it. I'm not saying everyone will, I'm saying it's possible.

An FWB is supposed to be someone you're already friends with and don't want romantic hassle with. There are many types of relationships where someone's being dishonest about why they're there. There's no way to avoid that in every situation. Stuff happens.

Which brings up another point, how could you be sure that if they don't start up with the benefits somewhere down the road? A few drinks... maybe an arguement...

That's no different than someone hitting a bar and finding a random stranger during an argument. A person is either faithful to you or not. If they want to cheat on you, having no FWB in the picture to contact won't stop them from finding someone.

It would be a red flag for me and I would be gone. When I meet someone here, I know that they will be talking and/or meeting others, but I don't automatically assume they are sleeping with them. Yep, red flag.

Egos are also at times looked at as a red flag. People other than you will have had the attention of the person you're interested in at some point in their lives. You have to be able to accept it. This "all eyes on me" thing isn't far from someone not liking you spending "too much" time with friends, or family or work, or doing anything where you're not the main focus in their lives.

It's the act of a person engaging in a FwB while I'm dating her that I find objectionable, not the label that one pins on it.

Agreed that while seriously dating or dating with serious intent, that it's not right to have sex with an FWB - although the new guy better be putting out - that's for another thread.

What is really funny about that is I've always found women to be the ones who are reluctant to disclose any sexual history. I've always been willing to disclose mine in whatever detail someone wishes to know it.

Yes, but it's none of someone else's business to ask it, nor does it concern them. It's tacky to ask about it. I won't do it - it's none of my business unless (as a few have said) someone's around months into dating them. That should be disclosed. Otherwise so long as you've been tested and aren't giving me anything, I don't need to know.

That's true, so a true fwb in that sense would rule someone out for a relationship with me. I don't date women who remain friends with exes and previous partners.

For friends where the sex is no longer occurring, why is the friendship that was possibly around years before you came along a couple weeks ago an issue?

Which would be fine with me as long as those people were in the her past when I met her. I'm willing to leave the past in the past, where it belongs. I only have an issue with the past when it overlaps the present and I draw the line between the past and present at the point in time I meet someone. I make that known up front, so there's never any confusion about what that means and no excuse for misunderstanding it.

Fair enough. Remember though there are a lot of males she never slept with who may have wanted it, just as there are males she slept with that really don't. There may also be females in some cases she's slept with or thought about sleeping with depending on who you're dealing with - so that's not limited to males.

I wonder why some people have such a problem with the individual being the arbiter of what "hurts" or "affects" him/her?

Listen, if I just met you and things that I did before I met you that don't concern you "hurt" you - I'd have to question your sensibility and sanity. Someone who you barely know can't do much to hurt you unless you take things way too personally - and in that case, it'd be your mindset, not their actions that cause the supposed "hurt".

Because *I* (that's ME, MYSELF) will decide what I want and do not want to know. *I* will decide if I'm going to put up with a "None of your business, Nosy-Rosy!" answer. Why is the *INDIVIDUAL* having the right to decide for him/herself what to accept, and what not to accept, such a bone of contention with so many people? Do you have an authoritarian streak we should know about?

I don't pry into the past personal life of guys I date for things that don't affect me (and if I wasn't dating them when they did it unless it was someone I'm related to or something, it doesn't affect me). Therefore I extend the same courtesy - if it doesn't affect them, I don't get into it. If I was arrested, or have some sort of STD (not sure why I'd be dating in that case), or something that DIRECTLY affected their life - I tell them so they can then make a decision. What color socks I wear, for instance has nothing to do with anyone but me - just because someone else has a sock fetish or hates a certain color sock or thinks something about socks is dealbreaker enough to back out of getting to know someone, it doesn't give them reason to demand that information from prospective dates - it truly doesn't affect them.
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 325
When to tell your date that you have a FWB?
Posted: 12/2/2011 2:01:06 PM

It's tacky to ask about it. I won't do it - it's none of my business unless (as a few have said) someone's around months into dating them. That should be disclosed.

That sounds good in principle, but in practice, women have always worked that into a conversation. I really don't cae, because I keep things very black and white as far as who I sleep with so that there are no grey areas to rationalize.

For friends where the sex is no longer occurring, why is the friendship that was possibly around years before you came along a couple weeks ago an issue?

I dunno, but it does bother me. I'm not worried about someone going back to an ex, but to me, it just doesn't seem proper to remain friends with previous sex partners. It may be irrational, but that's the way I feel about it and that's how it is. I don't sleep with friends because I want to remain friends with them without blurring any lines. I have a best friend who escorts and I would never have considered even posing a question about having sex with her. She would never do it for te same reason.

Fair enough. Remember though there are a lot of males she never slept with who may have wanted it, just as there are males she slept with that really don't. There may also be females in some cases she's slept with or thought about sleeping with depending on who you're dealing with - so that's not limited to males.

That doesn't bother me in the least. I could sit and listen to my fiancee describe what she's done in the past in graphic detail and I wouldn't be fazed in the least. If she spotted a hot guy and made some sexual remark about him, I wouldn't care. I'd just tease her about it. I'd actually probably prefer she be more sexually driven to think that way. I know she's not going to cheat on me, but if she wants to fantasize about some hot guy she spots (or two or three or whatever), great. Fantasize away. I'd like that sort of attitude about sex in a woman.

In fact, the new physician she just saw happens to be one of those drop dead good looking guys that actually had her flustered talking to him. My only comment was to ask her if she got a thrill from having to take her top off and have a breast exam. Really, that stuff doesn't bother me. I just think previous sexual partners ought to be gone. As far as having slept with females, that wouldn't bother me. I'm not sure why, but I dated a woman who was bi and the thought of her going out with another woman didn't faze me.
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