| | Can Canadians ever be trusted again???Page 2 of 3 (1, 2, 3) | Oh and socailaists are controllers, they want to introduce policy after policy so that we all have to live under their way of life as dictated by law.
The left need to learn to mind their own business. They are almost worse than the right these days. | |
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| Can Canadians ever be trusted again???
Posted: 1/3/2012 3:44:40 AM | Thinking in terms of 'left' and 'right' is misrepresentative here. More appropriate to this discussion would be 'being true to your word' vs not. I'm really just interested in the impact this decision has had for people oustide Canada on their perception of the 'trustworthiness' of Canadians. Did it go up, down, sideways, what?
And of course Canadians are welcome to give their point of view on what they think it will mean for how they will be trusted from now on. | |
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| Can Canadians ever be trusted again???
Posted: 1/3/2012 3:52:46 AM | I don't give a rats A##e about the Kyoto protocol.
I think the carbon tax should be raised to 20% in Australia. Clearly our shrinking industry and extremely large population of +22million can fix it if we pay more tax every F'n where!
I'm ashamed to be born here! its country full of children and kindergarten mentality ersatz intellects of marshmallow minds.
Say we change to a lib gov. next election and the gov says jump off a cliff,,,,,
....... | |
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| Can Canadians ever be trusted again???
Posted: 1/3/2012 4:59:54 AM |
I don't give a rats A##e about the Kyoto protocol.
Please elaborate. Is it the protocol itself you don't care about, the environment, or this discussion about the trustworthiness of Canadians? Then perhaps you could explain why it is that you don't care about it.
I'm ashamed to be born here! its country full of children and kindergarten mentality ersatz intellects of marshmallow minds
While I can see where you're coming from, I would entreat respect for others regardless of intellectual capacity or risk falling into the trap of hubris. Is that what we want to become of us? Surely the luckier you are in the mushy grey department, the greater your responsibility to lead with the tolerance, respect and understanding that you so desire in others. | |
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| Can Canadians ever be trusted again???
Posted: 1/3/2012 7:57:16 AM | The kyoto meeting is nonsense! Its a bunch of scientists and govt. bureaucrats wasting money.
1. reduce sales tax /duties etc on low carbon footprint cars - Hybrids elect solar gas.
2. did any one measure up the toxic by products of manufacturing neon lights power LEDs (containg gallium, arsenic other toxic rare earth metals.) Oh thats right they're all "made in China so it doesn't affact us???
3. ban parasitic power waste your LCD tv is on standby allday and half the night when not in use.
4 traffic congestion in Sydney and Melbourne - a 45 minute journey >20 minutes idling your car.
5. we still don't take solar power generation seriously even after 2o years since the successful Whitecliffs experiment.
6. selling off infrastructure to inefficient private sector, when the system crumbles they just charge more money.
7. a transport system that is 30 years behind in service and technology.
8. coal fired power stations built in the seventies
9. 30 years on, no leaded fuel, cars with smaller and more efficient engines and Sydney is still covered by photochemicals.
10. we are still logging vast amounts of non recoverable forest. - tasmania is a good example and that debate has been going on before the average Australian heard the word "Kyoto".
11. A green party that is less potent than it was 30 years ago during the battle to try and preserve the Daintree forest from mindless logging.
12 Australia major export ?? Coal ??? burn it you get ?????
Oh I've got a solution ....... we need a carbon tax!
do you really respect and believe this whole thing?
really? if yes then you are a better man than me.... as an Australian I feel cheated ....heck! half the natural forests I used to visit have gone!
yeah the bad Canadians........
people in glasshouses shouldn't throw stones ......hmmmm quite! quite! | |
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| Can Canadians ever be trusted again???
Posted: 1/3/2012 10:10:42 PM | Meh Do I trust Australians for signing on with bush in Iraq. My consensus with people is no. You are just lap dogs of the Americans.
Canada followed international law on how they pulled out. We also pulled out after it was shown that it was not going to work.
Canada has not polluted anyone elses air or water except maybe the US due to the wind going North to south.
Australia pollutes and causes more issues than Canada does and what has your country done? Wait nothing. | |
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| Can Canadians ever be trusted again???
Posted: 1/5/2012 1:26:14 AM | Heh heh .... I have to chuckle ... This guy (The OP) STILL thinks the Kyoto Proticol was about doing something about climate change!
Smuck ... It was about lining up the producing classes of the West to pay more [u]TAX[/u].
If you need any proof, just look at what Australia's Prime Minister is doing with the Carbon Tax. She is paying off the non-working classes whom she sees as her Labor Party voter base (She's a Lawyer, not one of the working class that formed the Labor movement) with a small amount of the Carbon Tax take and financing her ever growing public service and their salaries, superannuation, and leave entitlements with the rest.
How much is going into renewable energy research or developement? Zilch, Nada, NOTHING. | |
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| Can Canadians ever be trusted again???
Posted: 1/5/2012 1:44:13 AM |
How much is going into renewable energy research or developement? Zilch, Nada, NOTHING.
I really don't wanna believe you, but my inner cynic tells me I should, and he's usually right.
Where did you get this information from though? | |
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| Can Canadians ever be trusted again???
Posted: 1/5/2012 2:25:25 AM | The OP STILL thinks the Kyoto Proticol was about doing something about climate change!
This is a thread about global public perceptions of trustworthiness. The question is: has this Canadian action changed your perception of them. Allegations about slush funds from a carbon tax in Australia are irrelevant.
How much is going into renewable energy research or developement? Zilch, Nada, NOTHING.
Yes, a souce for that claim might go some way towards allowing us to believe it.
And I think you mean 'schmuck'. 
Meh Do I trust Australians for signing on with bush in Iraq
A majority of Australians opposed going to war in Iraq. And yes, we had mass protests, people thrown in jail for painting 'No War' on the Sydney opera house... so where are your protests?
Canada has not polluted anyone elses air or water except maybe the US due to the wind going North to south.
Er... you do know there is only one atmosphere around the earth, don't you? And only one ocean for that matter. There is no separate Canadian atmosphere in geostationary orbit above you! lol
yeah the bad Canadians........
people in glasshouses shouldn't throw stones
As citizens of the world it is everyone's concern. If you want to have a perfect world before you take action... you'll never take action. Australia is the worst polluter in the world per capita. Does that mean we should not participate in efforts to combat global warming? No, it means we have the most responsibility to lead the change. The 'perceptions of trustworthiness' that is the topic of this thread is just one example of non-economic consequences of our actions. Business people call it 'goodwill', and it does have significant but unaccounted value. I'm asking everyone, how much do you value goodwill? | |
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Tah,
| | Joined: 11/18/2008
Msg: 35 | |
| Can Canadians ever be trusted again???
Posted: 1/5/2012 3:29:08 AM |
Canada has the tenth largest economy in the world (measured in US dollars at market exchange rates), is one of the world's wealthiest nations, and is a member of the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) and Group of Eight (G8). Canada is unusual among developed countries in the importance of the primary sector, with the logging and oil industries being two of Canada's most important. Canada also has a sizable manufacturing sector, centered in Central Canada, with the automobile industry especially important.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Canada
Anyone familar with with global warming would know that trees play an important part in combating pollution...those in th eknow would als be aware of strip mining..it strips everything, kills everyhting..it very bad..the canadians are very into strip mining.
but aposter says,
Canada has not polluted anyone elses air or water except maybe the US due to the wind going North to south.
Australia pollutes and causes more issues than Canada does and what has your country done? Wait nothing.
but australia has done something...thats whta the threads about canada doing nothing and australia something
but the opinion that canad does no harm would also be wrong...
Canada is one of the few developed nations that is a net exporter of energy
anyone privy with global warming would be aware of our extravagance with our use of energy, canada's an exporter of energy...mmm
but apparantly canada doesnt pollute anyone...mmmm
Canada has not polluted anyone elses air or water
canada has also done big damage to the cod and pacific salmon , big big damage....
The exploitation of renewable resources have raised concerns in recent years. After decades of escalating overexploitation the cod fishery all but collapsed in the 1990s, and the Pacific salmon industry also suffered greatly.
lot of misinformation from posters defending one of worst rapists of mother earth. | |
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| Can Canadians ever be trusted again???
Posted: 1/6/2012 12:52:03 AM |
This is a thread about global public perceptions of trustworthiness.
You're trying so hard to get people to answer that, as the debate rages about what will and won't stave off global destruction.  I think on a personal level people are far less likely to forgive an individual for untrustworthiness, and possibly even take it to the grave, than they are a collective entity like a corporation, a government, or a country. Maybe it's just harder to sustain anger at a collective? I figure that if various countries have been able to move past blowing the legs off each other's young men, and go back to buying and selling each other stuff, tourism, etc...well, for Canada, getting past this will be a doddle.
Hilly's earlier comments about it being like the school yard reminded me of a kids book...'Who Sank the Boat'. You get 3 levels of response from kids...the ones who are simplistic enough to think it was the little mouse cos he got on last just before the boat sank...the ones who want to blame the big fat hippo (or was it an elephant..) for adding the most weight...and the ones who realise that they all sank the boat by being too gormless to not consider the limitations of the boat. The moral of the story is meant to be that apportioning blame is a bit of a moot point once you're all thrashing about in the sh1t. Possibly not relevant for Canada who apparently have their own atmosphere and environment sealed in a slo-time bubble. | |
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| Can Canadians ever be trusted again???
Posted: 1/6/2012 1:04:24 AM | Whatever .... Trusting 3 or 4 year term governments to use "their" taxes (current or new) to do something about a decades or centuries long problem of climate change is niaive.
If anything gets done, in Canada, Japan, the US, China or Australia it will be done by Jack and Jill Average changing their habits. All governments will do is levy taxes and soak them up in "administration." Governments are untrustworthy by nature. They maintain power by spin. Therefore spin is all important to them ... climate change is the next governments problem.
I trust Canadians. I don't trust their government, but I don't trust my own either. | |
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| Can Canadians ever be trusted again???
Posted: 1/6/2012 1:20:49 AM |
MrsNaamah on 1/6/2012 8  03 AM - The moral of the story is meant to be that apportioning blame is a bit of a moot point once you're all thrashing about in the sh1t. Possibly not relevant for Canada who apparently have their own atmosphere and environment sealed in a slo-time bubble.
Perhaps Homo Sapiens time is drawing to an end. Life on Earth will go on as it has more than a billion years before H Sapiens first walked on her. In any case in another 5 billion years the Sun will cool and expand to a Red sequence star which will engulf Earth's orbit.
The dolphins will have already performed their series of "So long and thanks for all the fish." back flips by then. Humans ...  | |
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| Can Canadians ever be trusted again???
Posted: 1/6/2012 2:15:33 AM |
MrsNaamah on 1/6/2012 8 03 AM - The moral...
That was pretty lucky that MrsNaamah posted at 8:52. Happened to hit a nice smilie - could have been worse!
Perhaps Homo Sapiens time is drawing to an end
Perhaps. The safest you could ever get as a species would be colonising multiple galaxies, but even then there are no guarantees of survival. The real question is: does it matter? Is the species homo sapiens so great that improvement is impossible and it is vital that our genes are preserved for eternity?
MrsNaamah, you're very kind to address the topic  . I've given up trying to keep it on track now though | |
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| Can Canadians ever be trusted again???
Posted: 1/7/2012 6:40:07 PM | Try apportioning most of the blame where it belongs for the fish industry. You know like european countries fishing in our waters using illegal methods under our laws.
We also have laws on the books now that forest companies have to replant the damage they do.
Strip mining lol. Yes it is damaged while it is going on and then when the mine is closed they fix it due to our own laws again. | |
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| Can Canadians ever be trusted again???
Posted: 1/7/2012 7:05:48 PM | Try apportioning most of the blame where it belongs for the fish industry
What, like people who eat fish species that are being over-fished? Cut demand and the stocks will recover.
We also have laws on the books now that forest companies have to replant the damage they do.
I've got nothing against sustainable forestry. The problem is that an acre of seedlings doesn't consume nearly as much CO2 as an acre of hundred-year-old trees. There is an accounting imbalance, because converting CO2 to O2 is valuable for the health of our atmosphere but is not counted by laws that merely require replanting. Things like Kyoto try to take that value into account. The costs of wood products go up and the consumer reduces demand until a new equilibrium is reached, one that takes CO2 into account. Without CO2 accounting there is an artificially low cost to us now. We don't reduce CO2 emissions. CO2 accumulates. The risks of global warming increase (sea level rising, weather patterns destabilsing, oceans acidifying...). It may well fall to future generations to pay for our current excessive consumption unless we take out CO2 insurance now. $13.4bn sounds like a lot of money now, but how much could all that damage cost us later? Is it worth the risk?
when the mine is closed they fix it due to our own laws again
Stip mining looks pretty bad, but in terms of land-area damage it is tiny compared to deforestation. Whether you're talking fishing, mining, logging, whatever - if everyone had the attitude that any damage we do is ok as long as you repair it in 100 years time... what happens to the planet (especially atmosphere and ocean) in that 100 years? How much greater is the cost to future generations than the profit we are grabbing now? | |
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Tah,
| | Joined: 11/18/2008
Msg: 42 | |
| Can Canadians ever be trusted again???
Posted: 1/7/2012 9:26:57 PM | The safest you could ever get as a species would be colonising multiple galaxies,
That dawkins dude speaks alot of common sense, sometimes he can't quite relate the spiritualness to us and the planet and all living things with his common sense, but he speaks it none the less.
That guy who got his bit part in a nobel prize for believing the galaxy is ever expanding in some sort of erotic big bang theory
then there's other who rekon we all just a big mathamatical equasion...or something...
You realise just how small and insignificant we are and this planet has seen 4 billion years, equate the last 100 to that?
equate what happens each year when we go round the sun, equate what happens each time the sun goes around whatever it does and so on...keep visioning the next level up.
Like family politics,to street politics to suburb to council to state to federal to geo....behaviors and tacticts are the same just on a different level, deeper level and more complicated each step up.
dad gives mum money to get abit , like the pm pork barrels....
we might just be a colony within a colony.....
lots of movies have touched on it. | |
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| Can Canadians ever be trusted again???
Posted: 1/8/2012 5:03:06 PM | First off, hello fellow commonwealthians (I don't know the correct word but I'll use this)
Oh yes, we Canucks can be trusted, just not a majority Conservative government run by a bully of a PM. That's right, I'm talking about you Mr. Harper!
By the way, I'm not sure if it was mentioned here, as the title grabbed my attention moreso, but when I first read about Canada backing out of Kyoto there was ONE country that defended us. Google this...
"Australia defends Canada's Kyoto exit"
My two cents. | |
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| Can Canadians ever be trusted again???
Posted: 1/8/2012 5:17:52 PM |
Australia is the worst polluter in the world per capita. Does that mean we should not participate in efforts to combat global warming? No, it means we have the most responsibility to lead the change.
And the answer is
1. Carbon tax
2.Waste money on paper tigers on the Kyoto protocol rubbish.
No I don't think so.
before we criticise Canada we should actually clean up our own mess - taxes and visits to Japan will not have any effect!
Australia is a big mess following in the footsteps of China (just minus the manufacturing industry)
Before Australians start criticising Canada and other first world nations, Australia needs to clean up its own act and stop being sissied around by govts (labour or lib or greens or whatever idiots blackmailing hardworking people with extra taxes and ridiculous interest rates on housing!
want to lower australian carbon footprint?
1. improve infrastructure -roads and transport non profit govt. run.
2. lower sales and duty for low carbon footprint goods. purchase benefits on electric/hybrid vehicles.
3.Improve rail system-
4. start focussing on large projects concerning alternative power generation.
5. save our forests and wetlands and other aspects of our ecology
After that we can start throwing stones inside this global glasshouse (greenhouse)
FYI - In Sydney the "big debate" is wether or not to dismantle the monorail! - pathetic! | |
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| Can Canadians ever be trusted again???
Posted: 1/11/2012 4:40:22 AM | Bilby, you are very passionate about what can be done in Australia, and that is great to see. I wholeheartedly agree that "you must be the change you wish to see in the world."
The one area we are disagreeing on is:
before we criticise Canada we should actually clean up our own mess
If we all waited until our backyards were perfect before encouraging the whole neighbourhood to get busy, then we wouldn't get anywhere. To make a real difference we need education, encouragement and momentum across all nations simultaneously.
I understand you are concerned about upsetting our friends, the Canadians. Perhaps I can help put you at ease with another quote: "friendship that insists upon agreement on all matters is not worth the name. Friendship to be real must ever sustain the weight of honest differences, however sharp they be."
Not only are they our friends, but as a couple have pointed out it is their government rather than the people that made the decision. Some friendly criticism and encouragement may be just what they need to help galvanise them in their struggle for truly democratic representation. | |
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| Can Canadians ever be trusted again???
Posted: 1/11/2012 11:57:57 PM | I think everyone is spinning their wheels here. Everyone needs to revisit what the Kyoto Protocol stands for before calling your government bodies 'traitors.' Before we even go into the particulars, the Kyoto Protocol was out-dated, as it does not take into consideration 'normal climate change' that happens regardless if humans existed or not on this planet. (I think I just opened up another can of worms for debate on this, but let's just keep that aside for now.)
I think you guys are too optimistic in believing that the 'Kyoto Protocol' will make a dramatic change in everyone's lives. To put it bluntly, the protocol created a commodity item that is traded, as if it was a piece of gold or silver. I am totally simplifying this, but in essence businesses that produces carbon emissions are all given a limit on how much greenhouse gasses they can release. If you go over the alloted limit, you pay $$$ to the KP organization. If you did not use the full allowance, then you have option to sell your 'cap' to other businesses that have gone exceeded their emissions cap. Big businesses then bid for these 'allowances' so they wont get penalized.
We, as consumers suffer from paying higher prices for goods to offset the carbon trading costs as a consequence of the protocol. The money that is collected by KP, well they haven't really done much (I would love to be proven wrong on this by the way.. ) | |
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| Can Canadians ever be trusted again???
Posted: 1/12/2012 2:57:43 AM |
I think everyone is spinning their wheels here.
And the answer is - Waste money on paper tigers
blame the big fat hippo
(The OP) STILL thinks the Kyoto Proticol was about doing something about climate change!
I should not be able to take random quotes and bend them any which way i feel if the canadian govt did what they said, and said what they did.
its real simple, do what you say.. or dont f*&k'n say it ! | |
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| Can Canadians ever be trusted again???
Posted: 1/12/2012 4:36:33 AM |
Everyone needs to revisit what the Kyoto Protocol stands for before calling your government bodies 'traitors.' Not really, given that if indeed Canada didn't see the value in Kyoto, or thought it was sh1t, then why did they sign up in the first place? Did someone have a gun to their head? They signed up to it and then pulled out. Saying after the fact that they pulled out because the theory behind it wouldn't work, err... didn't they read it before they signed it? The OP's question is actually about the nature of pulling out of a deal, not about the effectiveness or otherwise of Kyoto. Although he did later say that he'd given up on the idea cos it didn't seem to be working. I guess you could say he did a Canada on the thread topic. 
To put it bluntly, the protocol created a commodity item that is traded, as if it was a piece of gold or silver. I am totally simplifying this, but in essence businesses that produces carbon emissions are all given a limit on how much greenhouse gasses they can release. If you go over the alloted limit, you pay $$$ to the KP organization. If you did not use the full allowance, then you have option to sell your 'cap' to other businesses that have gone exceeded their emissions cap. Big businesses then bid for these 'allowances' so they wont get penalized.
People keep presenting Kyoto as if they were just intending polluters to keep polluting and just pay for the privilege, but my understanding is that that's a bit of a twist on the real premise of it. The ideal being aimed for was to commit to reducing harm to the planet; with payment as the negative consequence if you didn't live up to your commitment. The payment aspect was meant to be something the participants would aim to avoid as part of an honourable undertaking. Much like when a kid says "cross my heart and hope to die" and they are generally understood to be intending to avoid the negative consequence (yanno, the whole dying bit) by keeping their word...not the other way around.
I'm not saying Kyoto was the answer, but I do like the fact that polluters can gain credits for paying someone else to absorb their emissions...so paying the owners of land to not clear the land. It means land that would have been cleared so the land-owner could make money out of it via farming or development, will now now not be cleared. The land-owner derives an income, the trees stay, helps absorb the pollution, helps the occupants of the planet. I like it as a concept. But I can sure understand why this sort of greenie nonsense might cause outrage, particularly amongst those who hate the thought of anyone impeding on their right to live in smog and choke on fumes if they want to. | |
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Tah,
| | Joined: 11/18/2008
Msg: 49 | |
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| Can Canadians ever be trusted again???
Posted: 1/16/2012 7:38:35 PM | | The liberals were in power and signed the kyoto accord and then promptly did absolutely nothing. The conservatives had been opposed to it since the beginning. They finally got the majority needed to pull us out of this scam to just give money to poor countries and not actually accomplish **** all. | |
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