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 passionteman
Joined: 3/7/2005
Msg: 52
is Islam an Page 3 of 21    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21)
13theportal


hehehee. Very funny post. This individual has got no knowledge of any religions at all. lol.
 passionteman
Joined: 3/7/2005
Msg: 53
is Islam an
Posted: 7/24/2005 11:56:23 AM
Millan

Well. The fact is that I gave you one example. There are alot of women who have their own parties and work in embassies around the world as well as represent countries. Ofcourse, there are power struggles everywhere, so don't give me the "was" thing. The same way that now there is "Bush" the president and later on it will be someone else. But there hasn't been a woman that I have seen so far governing US.


1. Benazir Bhutto, prime minister of Pakistan
2. Tansu Ciller, prime minister of Turkey 93-96
3. Sheikh Hasina Wajed. prime minister of Bangladesh
4. D. Khaleda Zia , Former Bangladesh prime minister


Give some names of Prime ministers and presidents in the West.
 SaritaTallahassee
Joined: 12/3/2004
Msg: 54
is Islam an
Posted: 7/24/2005 12:21:20 PM
what happened was the Pagans wanted to KILL HIM,


Do you deny that the much-revered Ali threatened to kill anyone who refused to accept Mohammed as their prophet? Islamics rever Ali! If that's not a violent religion, I don't know what you call it.


Muhammad didnt even wage a war yet


Finally you admitted that Mohammed waged war on non-Islamics.


HE ONLY FOUGHT MECCAN SOLDIERS WHO WERE ARMED AND WHO CAME TO FIGHT THE MUSLIMS!!!!!


Really. Some soldiers just showed up out of nowhere and decided to attack him. Well, history says otherwise.


i have heard about the incident about killing 600 jews...that was because in Medina there were many jews living there. Muhammad made a peace treaty with them as soon as he got there.


So you admit he actually TRAVELED THERE with his soldiers either to kill them or make a treaty? What kind of a prophet is it that goes around cutting off heads? A violent one. Get Mohammed far away from me. That’s no prophet. Mohammed was a violent, authoritarian, dictator-whacko no better than George W. Bush. Do I go around calling Bush a prophet? No.


It lasted for a while, but one of the jewish tribes, along with 2other tribes, conspired to kill Muhammad


Awwww. Mohammed was just a victim of life. Poor thing. Please spare me.

Look, you may have a new version of history, but I am not buying it.
 passionteman
Joined: 3/7/2005
Msg: 55
is Islam an
Posted: 7/24/2005 1:15:19 PM
Saritamiami


1. Give me some prove of Ali threatening to kill for religion. You seem to have read something from Dalai Lama. lol.

2. Show me that history that shows otherwise.

3. There weren't lots of Jews there. They were mostly pagans. When you say something back it up like I do. You got no evidence at all. Just boasting around with no proof.

So no more answers to your post until you have some proven facts. I only discuss different religions with someone who has some background in different religions at least.





 hilariousdogs
Joined: 7/14/2005
Msg: 56
is Islam an
Posted: 7/24/2005 1:38:55 PM
Well honestly speaking as i mentioned in one of my posts before Islam more much more acceptable and i think the reason being i am studying it from sites which are showing articles of people with complete understanding of religion and the Prophet.

Sarita unfortunately couldnt accept that she just hates muslims and islam. from women to throwing baseless allegation on mohd its just making it so very obvious.

as far as waging a war is concern as i am not very knowledgeable but am sure that when muslims were fighting soviet in afghanistan they were fighting against evil and even osama was a very brave soldier fighting the evil of communist and their threat. so not every war is unjust. but surely if you hate someone too much then there is no point in arguing its better that you and drive the number one cause of road accidents and deaths (more casualities than terrorists can ever inflict on us) and if we are muslims there is no alcohol neither any worries about drunkndrive

i am telling you if only we can open our eyes and see without prejudice we will know what a beautiful religion it is

i think on page 2 i have a rather long message and also the message of this other muslim person are very helpful to demistify this seemingly nice way of life if only we can see or listen or say the truth but it seems as if our hearts are closed to it
 Millan
Joined: 5/27/2005
Msg: 57
is Islam an
Posted: 7/24/2005 1:59:53 PM
passionteman..,


Give some names of Prime ministers and presidents in the West


Hm..some names..
..well if by the west you mean Europe..I think about ten countries (Spain, Luxemburgh, Denmark, Liechtenstein, Monaco, The Netherlands, Belgium, Sweden, Great Britain, Norway..) have a King and a Queen.. and then Ireland, Latvia and Finland have a female president..if I remember correctly..and about six other republics have had female presidents in the last two decades.. so that's not too bad hu.. so thats 13 against...2 that are actually prime minister..
..so there u have it..

take care
 passionteman
Joined: 3/7/2005
Msg: 58
is Islam an
Posted: 7/24/2005 2:07:50 PM
millan

You don't even know their names. Give me names. It is easy to say that just like I would keep putting some more names on here with some countries.
 Millan
Joined: 5/27/2005
Msg: 59
is Islam an
Posted: 7/24/2005 2:32:18 PM
??passion..

..names..what the..
..does it matter what their names are..? about 10 queens and 3 female presidents you all you can say is give me their names...to proof it hu..
Ok..Mary McAleese..Vaira Vike-Freiberga ..Tarja Kaarina Halonen ..Queen Paola Ruffo di Calabria, Queen Margrethe Alexandrine Þorhildur Ingrid, Queen Beatrix Wilhelmina Armgard , Queen Sonja Haraldsen , Queen Sofia -spain-, Queen Elizabeth Alexandra Mary, Queen Silvia Sommerlath, ...hm
..well
should proof it anyway..

taa
 passionteman
Joined: 3/7/2005
Msg: 60
is Islam an
Posted: 7/24/2005 2:49:45 PM
They are queens. If I give you the list of queens and princess it would be alot. What I was asking was president or prime minister.
 Millan
Joined: 5/27/2005
Msg: 61
is Islam an
Posted: 7/24/2005 3:02:49 PM
..for christsake man..can't you read then..??

again..
..Mary McAleese..Vaira Vike-Freiberga ..Tarja Kaarina Halonen .. PRESIDENTS...

..well okthen..give me a list of queens in the middle east then..no princesses..and queens that actually have somehting to say.
 passionteman
Joined: 3/7/2005
Msg: 62
is Islam an
Posted: 7/24/2005 3:03:38 PM
Hehehe. The 14 turned into 3 now.
 Millan
Joined: 5/27/2005
Msg: 63
is Islam an
Posted: 7/24/2005 3:15:01 PM

1. Benazir Bhutto, prime minister of Pakistan
2. Tansu Ciller, prime minister of Turkey 93-96
3. Sheikh Hasina Wajed. prime minister of Bangladesh
4. D. Khaleda Zia , Former Bangladesh prime minister



passion ,

Some slight correction... Benazir Bhutto is not prime minister of Pakistan , Shaukat Aziz is.
And Begum Khaleda Zia (not D.) is the current NOT former prime minister of bangladesh....
So that brings you down to just ONE.

I thank you
 Millan
Joined: 5/27/2005
Msg: 64
is Islam an
Posted: 7/24/2005 3:17:04 PM

Hehehe. The 14 turned into 3 now

...
3 presidents , 10 queens...
3+10 = 14..?
..it's 13.. and all is better than just 1 is it..?
 passionteman
Joined: 3/7/2005
Msg: 65
is Islam an
Posted: 7/24/2005 3:17:27 PM
I wasn't necessarily talking about current ones.
 Suther
Joined: 5/20/2005
Msg: 66
is Islam an
Posted: 7/24/2005 3:26:16 PM
@13thportal

I believe that ISLAM IS Evil. It preaches the slaughter of christians (kill the infidels), it reveres women as lowly creatures not worthy of anything, and its entire theological book is based on kill by the sword. Islam is dangerous and needs to be snuffed out along with those who follow it. We're already seeing the results..terrorism.

Sounds like you’re an advocate for the Spanish Inquisition, bride of Joseph Mengele or at the very least a former Hilter Youth. If you define the whole of Islam by terrorism then by your logic same must be said about Christianity as well. (Bombing of abortion clinics and the IRA come to mind)



To base a faith on the 70 virgins in heaven idea after death, is just plain stupidity and ignorance to me.

Didn’t realize the whole faith is based upon this. 70 virgins sounds like a hell not heaven to me.
 Sparx1_1
Joined: 6/18/2005
Msg: 67
is Islam an
Posted: 7/24/2005 3:32:07 PM

I am not fond of Islam for two rather large reasons:

1) After Mohammed established the religion, he advanced it by declaring war upon, and killing, anyone who refused to convert to his religion. Islam became a religion through violence, otherwise it would not have become a religion at all.

2) As part of the religion, Mohammed decided to keep polygamy, and, in fact, was polygamous himself. Polygamy denigrates females, just as polyandry would denigrate males.


The BIBLE is full of the same thing.

Most of the old testament patriarchs had several wives and many kings were noted to have kept entire harems. Polygamy was the order of the day back then. Infidelity and adultery concerned having sex with a woman who was not your wife.. but there was never a restriction on the number of wives a man could have.

As for War.. the Bible has been called the *bloodiest book ever written* for a reason. Look at the OT and you will find reference after reference of God commanding the jews to destroy or drive out their enemies. There are even references in some passages of God telling them to take over an place and to kill everything male and female young and old..

The spanish inquisition was a religious campaign... up to a million people were killed and tortured in the name of God.. convert or die was the order of the day.
From simple monks to the infamous conquistadors, millions of naitves were killed or convered in the drive to bring religion to the heathen.
The Crusades.... was a fanatics dream of *liberating* the holy land from the turks that had nothing to do with liberation and evrything to do with the belief that their actions wer directed by the hand of God.
The slavery of blacks was propogated by the belief that it was ordained by God .. the penalty for a slave to run away varied depending on where you were.. but all the colonies and countries that practiced slavery had provisions that allowed for slave to be put to death.
The americas were by no means the only place to practice slavery.. but they were the first to create a formal institution of it.
 SaritaTallahassee
Joined: 12/3/2004
Msg: 68
is Islam an
Posted: 7/24/2005 5:37:37 PM
@passionateman:

I'll gladly get you info. on Ali threatening to kill to promote religion.

For the time being, I'm providing you here with proof that Mohammed believed in KILLING to promote religion. I'm also providing you with proof that Mohammed was a pedophile, and a very sexually promiscuous man:



Al Hadis, Vol. 4, p. 420, Abu Ayyub reported: The prophet came out while the sun was setting. He heard a voice and said, "the Jews are punished in their graves."

Al Hadis, Vol. 1, p. 575, Abu Hurairah reported that the Messenger of Allah said, "Don't be first to salute Jews or Christians. When you meet one of them in the way, drive him to the narrowest part of it." Attested by Muslim.

Al Hadis, Vol. 2, P. 350, Abdullah-b-Amr reported that the Holy Prophet said, "Fighting in the way of Allah atones for everything except debt."

Al Hadis, Vol. 2, P. 354, Abu Hurairah reported that the Messenger of Allah said, "Spread peace, give food, and strike hoofs (kill in war) of polytheists (Christians), and you will inherit heaven."

Al Hadis, Vol. 2, p. 345Abu Hurairah reported that the Messenger of Allah said, "An infidel and his killer will never unite in Hell."

Al Hadis, Vol 2, p. 347, Jaber-b-Samorah reported that the Messenger of Allah said, "This religion will never cease to exist. A party of the Muslims shall always fight for it until the Hour (entering heaven) comes."

The Qu'ran 2:217 "They ask you concerning the sacred month about fighting in it. Say: Fighting in it is a grave matter, and hindering men from Allahs way and denying Him, and hindering men from the Sacred Mosque and turning its people out of it, are still graver with Allah, and persecution is graver than slaughter; and they will not cease fighting with you until they turn you back from your religion, if they can; and whoever of you turns back from his religion, then he dies while an unbeliever." Killing people in the sacred month is wrong, but these were unbelievers.



Muhammad's wide , Khadija, died in AD 619. A few weeks later Muhammad married one of the faithful, called Sawda. A little later he married a six year old girl called Aisha, although the marriage was not consummated until she was nine. This is record in Bukhari's Hadith eg Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death). Volume 7, Book 62, Number 65: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: I have been informed that 'Aisha remained with the Prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death)." Volume 7, Book 62, Number 88: The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with 'Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death). The marriage of Muhammad to a six year old girl is also recorded in Abu Dawud's hadith and in Muslim' hadith.

Here is number 280 in volume 4 of Bukhari's hadith. When the tribe of Banu Quraiza was ready to accept Sad's judgement, Allah's Apostle sent for Sad who was near to him. Sad came, riding a donkey and when he came near, Allah's Apostle said (to the Ansar), "Stand up for your leader." Then Sad came and sat beside Allah's Apostle who said to him. "These people are ready to accept your judgement." Sad said, "I give the judgement that their warriors should be killed and their children and women should be taken as prisoners." The Prophet then remarked, "O Sad! You have judged amongst them with (or similar to) the judgement of the King Allah." At the Battle of the Trench in 627 AD, the last Jewish tribe in Medina, the Banu Qurayza had been neutral. (Banu means 'sons of'). On the day the Battle finished, Muhammad turned against them. After a siege they surrendered. Muhammad appointed Sa'd ibn Mu'adh, who had been wounded in the battle, as their judge. He gave the judgement recorded as above in the Islamic sources - a judgement which Muhammad said Allah approved of. The next day, at least 600 Jewish men were beheaded in public on the edge of trenches and their bodies thrown in. The women and children were sold. Muhammad took one of the women - Rayhana, newly widowed, as a concubine.


@sparx:

You're right. However, I live today, in 2005. Today, in 2005, Islam is a religion that believes in polygamy STILL, and treats women like donkeys, STILL. I may not be the absolute best judge of past times, but I can be a pretty darn good judge of today.
 jonnyb36
Joined: 7/21/2005
Msg: 70
view profile
History
is Islam an
Posted: 7/24/2005 6:45:13 PM
nice point sparx, and indeed let us not forget the manifest destiny. The belief of christians that the continent of North America was theirs for the taking resulting in exterminating almost every native of those shores. Just evil.
 daviemckie
Joined: 6/6/2005
Msg: 71
is Islam an
Posted: 7/24/2005 7:38:10 PM
What I need is the verse from the Bible where Jesus has 1. Claimed divinity


In John 10:36, Jesus said, "Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?"
Obviously, Jesus was being accused of blasphemy for claiming to be God's Son. Where did He say it? In the previous chapter, John 9:35-38, where Jesus had just healed the man born blind, and the Pharisees cast the healed man out of the synagogue.
"Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God? He answered and said, Who is he, Lord, that I might believe on him? And Jesus said unto him, Thou hast both seen him, and it is he that talketh with thee. And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshiped him."
"Only God can receive worship, right?" When he says yes, "Then Jesus clearly claimed to be God. Only as God could Jesus, who cannot lie, receive worship."
 longte
Joined: 10/18/2004
Msg: 72
is Islam an
Posted: 7/24/2005 7:41:06 PM
So it seems we have reached a point where we have to agree on two things

Practitioners from Both Christianity and Islam have been responsible for many deaths
among many people throughout the world

But are either of the Religions themselves Evil

My personal view is that NO they are not
It is just that Man has used Religion as an excuse
......
 SaritaTallahassee
Joined: 12/3/2004
Msg: 73
is Islam an
Posted: 7/24/2005 7:46:18 PM
Longte, I agree with you. With respect to the way in which both of these religions treat women, I have to say that Islam treats women badly, and Christianity is trying to reach the same point.
 sum1reel
Joined: 6/5/2005
Msg: 75
is Islam an
Posted: 7/24/2005 8:09:16 PM
and Christianity is trying to reach the same point.
@sarita


itz not the religious tenets (at least in christianity) that advocate treating women "badly" but rather the faulty practitioners themselves:

ie.........was mary mother of jesus treated badly in the scriptures?.......was mary m. & martha treated badly.......the woman whom jesus met "at the well", was she chided or treated badly by jesus?..............what about when the pharasees (by ordinance of the law)were about to stone a woman who got caught committing adultery, jesus intervened and stopped the stoning by saying 'he who is without sin can throw the first stone'.

there wasn't one woman who jesus didn't try to help or uplift.......all you gotta do is take the time to read his teachings without bias!
 SaritaTallahassee
Joined: 12/3/2004
Msg: 76
is Islam an
Posted: 7/24/2005 8:20:47 PM

there wasn't one woman who jesus didn't try to help or uplift.......all you gotta do is take the time to read his teachings without bias!


I always found it interesting that out of the entire Bible, evangelicals and fundamentalists seldom quote Jesus, and usually quote Paul. There's nothing in Jesus' words against women, against gays, etc. Just help for the poor, help for the ill, abhorrance of the rich, and that goes against what evangelicals and fundamentalists like nowadays. I suspect that's why they don't like quoting Jesus. None of Jesus' words go well with the evangelical/fundamentalist ideology/movement.
 hilariousdogs
Joined: 7/14/2005
Msg: 77
is Islam an
Posted: 7/26/2005 3:48:18 AM
http://answering-islam.org/Responses/Deedat/
 SaritaTallahassee
Joined: 12/3/2004
Msg: 78
is Islam an
Posted: 7/27/2005 5:40:24 PM

So much hate for islam...why? Is anyone forcing you to convert? How many muslim women do you know? How many have you spoken to? Just wondering.


There are feminist Islamic women trying to stop Islam from being such a sexist religion. I've listened to them. They're awesome! Islamic males hate them, of course. Perhaps it's time Islam took a good look at itself in the mirror.

Personally, I believe God is neither male nor female. I also think perhaps God hates those who treat women as if they are brainless children that need to be guided by males, and made to cover up like ghouls on Halloween.
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