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 flossiescratchwood
Joined: 2/23/2012
Msg: 151
Wearing the burka in the UK.Page 7 of 9    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9)
drouk, dwight, theflea, huggable harry, rem, indigo velvet and anyone else who supports the wearing of the burkha or niqab in the UK. I wish you would wear it for a week then come back and support anyone's supposed "right" to wear it...


Doesn't work Charity.I wouldn't want to wear one .It's not part of my faith or cultural background so it doesn't hold any significance for me. I'd no more wear it than I'd wear a nun's wimple .

People fast, go on pilgrimages, have dietary restrictions, hide away in a cave ,refuse to use everyday technology, stick nails in themselves and walk over hot coals - make themselves uncomfortable or deprive themselves in all manner of ways in the name of their faith. I may consider it fruit de loop but that's up to them.

 Wafta
Joined: 9/9/2008
Msg: 152
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Wearing the burka in the UK.
Posted: 3/11/2012 10:35:06 AM

Do Muslim men have to wear a burka?

No.

Do Muslim women have to be circumcised?

I know which I'd rather have.
 HuggableHarry
Joined: 4/4/2011
Msg: 153
Wearing the burka in the UK.
Posted: 3/11/2012 12:15:17 PM

drouk, dwight, theflea, huggable harry, rem, indigo velvet and anyone else who supports the wearing of the burkha or niqab in the UK. I wish you would wear it for a week then come back and support anyone's supposed "right" to wear it...

Msg: 152

I fully support everyones right/freedom to wear what they choose so long as it is lawfull for them to do so.

The burkha is just an easy target if if it to fight against Women being under OPPRESION perhaps some of the folk should watch this 2.5 min Street Theater - From the Burkha to the Thong.wmv
http://youtu.be/p8IEVxWtdOw
MUST WATCH :D:D:D:D

Personally if our local night club had more of these dancing ladies , it wouldnt be such a percieved problem.
http://youtu.be/7MpDlGAHsZk

MUST WATCH :D:D:D:D
 drouk
Joined: 5/31/2010
Msg: 154
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Wearing the burka in the UK.
Posted: 3/11/2012 12:17:28 PM
Msg 152


drouk, dwight, theflea, huggable harry, rem, indigo velvet and anyone else who supports the wearing of the burkha or niqab in the UK. I wish you would wear it for a week then come back and support anyone's supposed "right" to wear it...


I think you're being confused. I haven't read any post here saying that wearing a burqa is a wonderful thing and that more people should embrace it. Let me put it in another way: I don't smoke, when I see people smoking, I feel sorry for them (even though they probably don't care about my "sorriness") when I have kids, I'll do my best to make sure they don't start smoking... but I would be against banning cigarettes. It's the same thing for the burqa: I'm not a fan but people should have the choice to wear it or not.


they have a right to be seen, acknowledged as human beings
I completely agree with that. I just don't think that they should have the obligation to be seen.
 ControlledFolly
Joined: 2/17/2011
Msg: 155
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Wearing the burka in the UK.
Posted: 3/11/2012 1:00:38 PM
Anything involving attaching a label repulses me. That includes gender, race, nationality and so much more.

Its all about choice, i would quite like to go naked all the time in an ideal world, but that isnt practical as i will most likely cause offence to others, get arrested and catch pneumonia. Idealism is all well and good until it gets in the way of common sense.

People should be free to look anyway they deem fit, not be dictated to. If they choose to conform then that is their choice, but there is no reason on earth why a woman would wear a burkha in the UK if she didnt want to. She has the CHOICE to walk away whenever she chooses. To say she cant because of FEAR is an excuse.

There is a choice.... its those that have no choices that get my sympathy but then again revolution is always an option.
 Marquis_de_Michaelmas
Joined: 10/23/2008
Msg: 156
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Wearing the burka in the UK.
Posted: 3/11/2012 1:17:35 PM
In some cases
women are coerced or forced to wear the full faced veils by their fathers, husbands, brothers, uncles etc. It isn't their wish!

The QUESTION is how do we deal with that in this country? How do we support those women?


VVVVVV Hostels for women socially forced to wear high heals? Now there is an idea?
 helen1981
Joined: 9/17/2007
Msg: 157
Wearing the burka in the UK.
Posted: 3/11/2012 1:27:43 PM
If you really believe that someone is being coerced and forced then you set up more domestic violence hostels. Even for someone who is being hit they still have to make the choice to come to you for help. Put help lines in ladies toilets etc.

But on another note i sometimes feel that women are socially coerced into wearing high healed shoes. They hurt, even if you find a pair that doesn't it can lead to back problems in later life but show me a women on a night to a club that isn't wearing them. I feel not as attractive without them. We need to deal with sexism as a whole. I haven't got any easy answers.
 Wafta
Joined: 9/9/2008
Msg: 158
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Wearing the burka in the UK.
Posted: 3/11/2012 1:40:23 PM

But on another note i sometimes feel that women are socially coerced into wearing high healed shoes. They hurt, even if you find a pair that doesn't it can lead to back problems in later life but show me a women on a night to a club that isn't wearing them. I feel not as attractive without them. We need to deal with sexism as a whole. I haven't got any easy answers.



I have seriously heard it all now!! Women wearing high heels due to peer/media pressure is not, nor is anywhere near, sexism....its women being weak and being led by the pack and not having the guts to keep their own personal identity.
 theconcept
Joined: 1/20/2012
Msg: 159
Wearing the burka in the UK.
Posted: 3/11/2012 1:47:07 PM
I know somebody who always wears a hijab and asked them if their parents would approve if they didn't wear it, she said no. So whether or not the wearer chooses to wear it doesn't matter, because there is a culture in their community that frowns upon those who don't subscribe to 'tradition.' Those who don't conform are judged negatively.

So yes, they could go burqa free if they wish, but at the expense of their acceptance in their family and in their wider community etc so they would obviously feel obliged to wear it.

I have also heard a story from within a secondary school, where british muslims didn't wear the head dress... But when foreign muslims arrived in the school, who did wear the head dress, they bullied those who didn't wear the head dress. They looked down on those who didn't cover their hair etc So eventually, the british muslims started to wear the hijabs just to escape that judgement.

So it just goes to show, just because somebody wears it, doesn't mean they actually want to. Muslim women especially are subjected to these harsh judgements and criticisms by their community. If wearing a certain item of clothing will mean a hassle free life, of course many will just 'go with the flow.'

British society is built on the freedom to wear what you please, within reason, yes. But it is not British in any way to have this oppressive (and yes, as i just illustrated it is oppressive) obligation to wear certain items of clothing.
 Pandora0237
Joined: 11/21/2010
Msg: 160
Wearing the burka in the UK.
Posted: 3/11/2012 2:09:12 PM
It is a much bigger issue than a women s right to choose what she wears, something which ultimately I would always have to advocate, which is why I do not think you can ban it, but we can hopefully challenge it, and keep it on the table of discussion.

We outside the cultures, are able to listen to all sides of the argument, we can weigh up the religious arguments, and nothing in the Quran demands such an outfit should be worn, we can understand that women are told they will be seen as whores, have no friends in their communities and be unlikely to not get a husband (http://pol-check.blogspot.com/2011/04/do-muslim-women-want-to-wear-burka.html), and we can also use our 'outside the culture' common sense to question whether countries where the burkha is enforced, who will then take the view that a raped woman has actually committed adultery, ( http://pol-check.blogspot.com/2011/04/do-muslim-women-want-to-wear-burka.html) may not have a somewhat distorted vision of the role of a woman and a man in terms of sexual desire?? The burkha may be seen by some to protect modesty, but behind that argument, is the other belief that women are temptresses, or whores who have the potential to corrupt men (http://pol-check.blogspot.com/2011/04/do-muslim-women-want-to-wear-burka.html) who need to feel shame about their bodies, and being made to wear the burkha is about ownership and control, fuel that with religious rhetoric, and cultural isolation in Britain, and of course women will be unlikely to question wearing it.

Message 162 asked 'how do we support these women?', by arguing against it, and seeing the patriarchal frameworks that underpin these cultures, and also to see that by voicing our opposition here, we also give voice to women in countries like Afghanistan, and Saudi Arabia, where it is enforced by law, and women do not have the voice to speak for themselves.

I have a real interest, and most of the time respect for religious beliefs, but what I do know is the line between where any revelatory truth from a possible God, and the agendas of man in influencing that message, is one that we should always take into account when dealing with supposed religious teachings. This one for me is kinda obvious.....
 ControlledFolly
Joined: 2/17/2011
Msg: 161
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Wearing the burka in the UK.
Posted: 3/11/2012 3:28:07 PM
@Pandora:

I agree with your sentiments overall, but i also feel culture should be taken into account. For example the women in these cultures and especially relevent in ones covered by Sharia law would find that choosing to put career before family equally repulsive.

A patriarchal society, underpinning a theocratic leadership is always going to appear to be extreme to those that live outside of it, the bottom line is its what they know and they are comfortable in that space.
It is unfortunate we have to deal in generalisations on this matter as there will always be exceptions, but my personal opinion based on experience in the region over many years is that they are happy with things as they are and resist any type of cultural change.

I liked your comment about Patriarchal control hidden behind a religion and used as the words of god, Islam if not the only religion thats been used as a social tool to control the masses through fear, but thats a massive digression :)
The word of god like anything written by a person always, is, has been and will be the authors own opinion/interpretation. To think anymore than that is moronic.

If you can do anything to give these women a voice to air their true concerns would be a massive step in the right direction. And that goes for any group living under opression.
 CharityTrue
Joined: 11/15/2011
Msg: 162
Wearing the burka in the UK.
Posted: 3/11/2012 3:38:35 PM

Sikh men have to wear a turban.
Orthodox Jewish boys and men have to wear those daft hats and ringlets.
Jewish and Muslim boys have to be circumcised.


Really? do you not see the difference? Really?


.People fast, go on pilgrimages, have dietary restrictions, hide away in a cave ,refuse to use everyday technology, stick nails in themselves and walk over hot coals - make themselves uncomfortable or deprive themselves in all manner of ways in the name of their faith. I may consider it fruit de loop but that's up to them.

Is it?
As i said, it's NOT a faith issue, it's not commanded by islam like many have said here.


I think you're being confused. I haven't read any post here saying that wearing a burqa is a wonderful thing and that more people should embrace it. Let me put it in another way: I don't smoke, when I see people smoking, I feel sorry for them (even though they probably don't care about my "sorriness") when I have kids, I'll do my best to make sure they don't start smoking... but I would be against banning cigarettes. It's the same thing for the burqa: I'm not a fan but people should have the choice to wear it or not.
they have a right to be seen, acknowledged as human beings
I completely agree with that. I just don't think that they should have the obligation to be seen.


I'm not confused at all... I think a lot of people here (you included) are confusing a liberal/libertarian POV, with:
1. not having the bottle to call a spade a spade, (cowardice)
2. they are not smart enough to see the cause and effect (stupidity)
3. they just don't care about women from different cultures (lack of compassion)
Smoking cigarettes; not the same as wearing a burkha. (Sigh...)
One is solely based on gender....it asserts control/subjugates women in a public way and I do not wish to be part of a society that says that condones/encourages this...
This garment represents the desire to obliterate/obfuscate women; from public view/thought...
If these women are considered unfit to be seen in public, what msg is that sending to the community-at-large. To men, "Well, you lot are in charge, these quasi-invisble people are just blobs of black, blue whatever" To regurgitate the weak argument of it being about women's modesty is just lame, a woman's face is not immodest... It's her identity, she has a right to own it. Perhaps not over there, but here in the UK, she should... It's a basic human right that women here take for granted. I am surprised that so many women here support the so-called "right" to wear it.... I hope britain has the courage to stand up for its belief in secularism & personal freedom and not kow-tow to fear of what might happen.

I do not think you realise the chilling implications of this statement...

I just don't think that they should have the obligation to be seen.


If they are not obligated to be seen, they are effectively invisible; (think what abuses are perpetuated in plain sight of society...) conversely, it gives permission/makes it very easy to HIDE them.. Human nature is a nasty thing, try to imagine for a moment if our women/girls were allowed to be treated like this... think about it for a moment. Why do women from other cultures not deserve the same protection when they are here?



In some cases women are coerced or forced to wear the full faced veils by their fathers, husbands, brothers, uncles etc. It isn't their wish!
The QUESTION is how do we deal with that in this country? How do we support those women?

thank you for addressing this.. Most people here are pretending this issue does not exist....
peace out...
 HuggableHarry
Joined: 4/4/2011
Msg: 163
Wearing the burka in the UK.
Posted: 3/11/2012 3:49:55 PM


In some cases women are coerced or forced to wear the full faced veils by their fathers, husbands, brothers, uncles etc. It isn't their wish!
The QUESTION is how do we deal with that in this country? How do we support those women?

thank you for addressing this.. Most people here are pretending this issue does not exist....
peace out...


It exists so does female inequality at work . However , I think you will find the vast majority of these ladies that wear this garment choose too do so, its easy to do ones buisness without being recognised :D:D:D:D:D:D:D. by these oppresive men folk some elude too.
teh question of culture, the vast majority of these ladies come from south asia (india/ pakistan) and I think you will find that in these countries this is not common practice. So before going on a mission to save these repressed women from themselves take a chill pill and worry about getting the lovely ladies of the land true eqaulity .

 flossiescratchwood
Joined: 2/23/2012
Msg: 164
Wearing the burka in the UK.
Posted: 3/11/2012 4:21:51 PM
Charity......

faith/culture..... we can argue the toss ,as it has to be said do Muslims of different sorts. Indications are , certainly from other European countries that a high percentage of women wearing niqab( NOT burqa that's quite specific and on the whole not what most people are wearing) are women of European origin who have chosen to convert to Islam.In these cases women are making a definite statement about the way they choose to view and inhabit their world.It's an alien concept that some might be 'happy' in ways that you or I or many other women don't understand.Though the 'surrendered wives' and 'in hand' women in our society might think they're onto something.

Noone is ignoring the fact that some women will be coerced.What I would like to know is how you think forcing women to disrobe is going to help them? If they are repressed/abused in their families and homes you think that is going to miraculuosly stop because someone says they can't wear their clobber? Really? Instead of ripping away the one thing that protects them how about talking to them?How about getting 'moderate' Muslim men on side? How about attempting to deal with the men and the family/community structures that support it instead of going for the soft target and adding to these women's difficulties.

And what about the abuse women in France are now experiencing if they DO go out in their veils? Is that not important in your scheme of things? We can all be nice as pie here saying we want veils off women because we have their best interests at heart.That certainly isn't the case for large swathes of the population who are considerably less well mannered and considerate of the hardships Muslim women might face.

No our women/girls do not often wear any outward signs of repressive homes.But the fact is large numbers of them ARE treated terribly behind closed doors and none of us are any the wiser most of the time.What is it? 26 occasions of abuse on average till many women actually do something about it.

Frankly I think getting your knickers in a twist about a small number of women covering their faces IS missing the bigger picture, both for Muslim women and women of all and no faith.I love it.I really do.People who actually think through the possible ramifications of an action rather than make emotive assumptions and cris de coeurs are cowards in your book.Strangely enough wanting the best for people, whatever shape that may take, and caring how it's achieved doesn't mean you have to wave a big heart shaped flag around saying 'I'm the only one that cares '

 ControlledFolly
Joined: 2/17/2011
Msg: 165
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Wearing the burka in the UK.
Posted: 3/11/2012 4:24:41 PM
India and Pakistan? Incorrect. Afghanistan, Iran, Saudi, yemen, Somalia, Jordan, UAE, Kuwait, Oman, and many others.... its to do with one particular sect..... what is noticeable is that it has started to creep into Libya, Tunisia and Egypt post Arab spring.

An interesting social experiment would be to give western feminists a gun and tell them to go and 'sort' it. And see what reception they get from the newly liberated. I have yet to see any other solution that has a prayer of working.

When this happens i would advise buying shares in Agent Provocatuer, Anne Summers and any cosmetic firm you can find. ( dont forget the pharmaceuticals and all they animal lab subsideries business will be booming!)
 HuggableHarry
Joined: 4/4/2011
Msg: 166
Wearing the burka in the UK.
Posted: 3/11/2012 4:41:51 PM
UKPlymouthBloke - You Definatley need to watch this 2.5 min Street Theater - From the Burkha to the Thong.wmv
http://youtu.be/p8IEVxWtdOw which I had posted further above.
 drouk
Joined: 5/31/2010
Msg: 167
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Wearing the burka in the UK.
Posted: 3/11/2012 4:51:33 PM

I'm not confused at all... I think a lot of people here (you included) are confusing a liberal/libertarian POV, with:
1. not having the bottle to call a spade a spade, (cowardice)
2. they are not smart enough to see the cause and effect (stupidity)


Well, I guess we stupid ones should thank Your Smartness for deigning enlightening us.


As i said, it's NOT a faith issue (...) I hope britain has the courage to stand up for its belief in secularism & personal freedom

What does secularism have to do here if this is not a faith issue? If I weren't such a coward, I would call that contradiction quite dumb.


If they are not obligated to be seen, they are effectively invisible;

Are you obligated to be seen in society? No you are not. Are you effectively invisible? No you are not. That sentence I quoted doesn't make any sense. I stand by what I said, if a woman decided to voluntarily cut herself from the society, I think she should have that right. If she decided to walk around in a mini-skirt, she should have that right too.


Most people here are pretending this issue does not exist


I do believe that there is an issue with the way some women are forced to wear a burqa and more generally with the way some women are kept in a slavery-like status. I just don't agree with banning the burqa. Quite simple, really.

I have a question for you: do you think that wearing a burqa should be made illegal for men too?
 Geordie_Colin
Joined: 6/20/2011
Msg: 168
Wearing the burka in the UK.
Posted: 3/11/2012 5:01:07 PM
I object strongly to the burka. How am I supposed to know if I want to shag them when I have perved their profile pictures ?
 monobloke
Joined: 3/5/2012
Msg: 169
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Wearing the burka in the UK.
Posted: 3/11/2012 5:05:41 PM
In China and Japan,etc there was Foot binding and restrictive attire.
In Europe the Corset was the cause of many femail internal medical ailments and fainting fits.

Both were male dominated society control methods over women.


Many years ago i boarded a flight from Tripoli to London. About 10 minutes after take off a young libyan woman wearing the full cover up gear went to the loo with a bag and emerged wearing jeans, a T- shirt and a big smile. What a transformation. Looking around the plane i noticed smiles from the western passengers and looks of disgust by many of the Libyans. Best thing was that it was a 'British Caledonian' flight so there was sod all the Libyans could do about it.
 Geordie_Colin
Joined: 6/20/2011
Msg: 170
Wearing the burka in the UK.
Posted: 3/11/2012 5:56:42 PM

Many years ago i boarded a flight from Tripoli to London. About 10 minutes after take off a young libyan woman wearing the full cover up gear went to the loo with a bag and emerged wearing jeans, a T- shirt and a big smile. What a transformation. Looking around the plane i noticed smiles from the western passengers and looks of disgust by many of the Libyans. Best thing was that it was a 'British Caledonian' flight so there was sod all the Libyans could do about it.

Did she then take insperation from sex and the city and take one of the male cabin crew into the toilet and shag the arse off him, or where they all gay?
 monobloke
Joined: 3/5/2012
Msg: 171
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Wearing the burka in the UK.
Posted: 3/11/2012 7:09:46 PM
lol. This happened in 1980 and wayyyy before 'Sex in the city'
 indigovelvet
Joined: 5/9/2010
Msg: 172
Wearing the burka in the UK.
Posted: 3/12/2012 7:59:07 AM
It's quite simple really, like I said if anyone was wearing that outfit it would make me uncomfortable,


….as well as... “surprised”, “jumpy”, “strange”, “weird”,” intimidating”, “shocked,” which seems to be at odds with someone who considers herself “quite cosmopolitan” that these “black robed figures” could incite so many reactions in you.


I am neither lying, scared nor prejudiced


Of course you’re not…… !


My concern with this culturally-specific garment as opposed to faith-specific garment is it's denial of human individuality to its wearers... It's women being denied the right to her own individual identity.


It’s nice to see those “black robed figures” you referred to earlier in this thread being acknowledged as women. Since individual identity is subjective, you’re not in any position to tell me whether a woman’s rights are being denied or not. According to the DCRI report in France, the majority of women who wore the burka before the ban was imposed did so VOLUNTARILY, largely as an expression of IDENTITY.


I think by following the french model we, as a society, make an important stand for our values; personal freedom being chief among them. People desperate to wear such garments , have the choice to live where they are the norm.


All that you're really saying is that you want other people to conform to how you live. We live in a democratic society where we are afforded the luxury of freedom of expression and choice in what we wear. Article 9 of the human rights convention allows freedom of thought, conscience and religion. Look it up some time as I can’t be bothered to recite it all here. As for saying “When in Rome do what the Romans do”…. Didn’t the Romans make gladiators fight to the death and crucify those who didn’t share their beliefs? Hmmmmm….food for thought.


Can we try to understand the difference between "intimidation", phobia etc... I don't like to see 2 men kissing either, sorry I just don't, that's me... i don't especially like watch a man and woman passionately kissing or having sex on screen either. I am not a homophobe or heterophobe because of it. it's my personal (dis)taste.


Personal taste boils down to aesthetic differences which are purely subjective. Personally speaking, I find the fact that you have a problem with women wishing to identify themselves differently from you as highly prejudicial.


Using an item of women's clothing as an excuse to launch an attack against Islamic beliefs is just cowardly and we may as well hide under a burka ourselves if we are not prepared to address the real problem.

Your last sentence is a lazy misjudgement... I couldn't give a monkey's what people believe... islam, jew, wiccan, I don't care... To say that everyone who disagrees with the burkha in public is an Islamaphobe is, put simply, pure bullsh!t...



Which is why I didn’t say “EVERYONE”. I suggested that people do use the burka as an excuse because they see Islamic beliefs as a threat to society, especially the more extremist ones. Indeed, this post backs that up.

If Islam was not dominated by the militant and radicals then I would not object to the Burka, or the Niquab (I get the terms mixed up) etc. If it were not used as a flimsey excuse to sue people over poorly written/interpreted discrimination laws I would not have an issue. It is ambiguous as a symbol of oppression as frequently it is the woman who chooses to dress like that. We do need to decide now how we are going to deal with the Islamic problem, we can't keep on putting it off.

If you want to call bullshit on something without making yourself look foolish, you should get your facts straight. The burka is a symbol which stands for many things, depending on who is wearing it and how it's perceived by others. Symbols only take on significance by people attributing power towards them.


(how strange, BTW, you sound like a right snob)
You are projecting your contempt on others and accuse us of islamaphobia... It's rather stupid...


I think you’ve just demonstrated your own contempt and prejudice rather well……congratulations.


drouk, dwight, theflea, huggable harry, rem, indigo velvet and anyone else who supports the wearing of the burkha or niqab in the UK. I wish you would wear it for a week then come back and support anyone's supposed "right" to wear it...


I don’t need to wear to wear it and I certainly don’t intend to stick my nose in and tell those that do they can’t or get hysterical over an issue that doesn’t affect my life in any way…especially when the reasons why women wear them are so complex and varied. An outright ban would simply force the few women who are coerced into wearing them into a different sort of prison, under lock and key in their own homes.


I think there is more to this issue than the token knee-jerk responses


The only knee jerk responses I've seen so far are from you.
 Wafta
Joined: 9/9/2008
Msg: 173
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Wearing the burka in the UK.
Posted: 3/12/2012 8:03:49 AM

Really? do you not see the difference? Really?

Absolutely! They are all "requirements" of following a particular culture/religion...the only difference is that the burkha is worn by women and the others are all things men are required to do.

Which was precisely my point
 pauline2012
Joined: 11/28/2011
Msg: 174
Wearing the burka in the UK.
Posted: 3/12/2012 8:08:13 AM

But on another note i sometimes feel that women are socially coerced into wearing high healed shoes. They hurt, even if you find a pair that doesn't it can lead to back problems in later life but show me a women on a night to a club that isn't wearing them. I feel not as attractive without them. We need to deal with sexism as a whole. I haven't got any easy answers.


I don't wear high heels. I can't remember the last time I did, 4-5 years ago maybe. If Im going out I'll wear flats. I do have heels but I'm rubbish at walking in them and I'd rather a safe night out than a flat on my face night out.

I understand the point you are making to an extent. But we have choices. Teetering about in 6 inch heels isn't my idea of a fun night out.
 theconcept
Joined: 1/20/2012
Msg: 175
Wearing the burka in the UK.
Posted: 3/12/2012 9:30:43 AM
I changed my mind, let them wear the burqa. Let them have sharia law here too. And public stoning. Lets all eat halal meat. Lets not pick and chose which parts of their culture are acceptable in our society and which are not, just embrace it all. Lets just forget our own culture and traditions and all convert to Islam.

'' Unless women find their voice and strength to do so, there is not much society can do about it other than offer them support if and when they choose to accept it.''

Islam says you can 'strike' your wife if she gets out of hand. So maybe in their minds it isn't 'domestic abuse,' merely the man following 'gods' instruction. We shouldn't judge other cultures by our standards. If god says its ok to hit your wife, who are we to argue?

We shouldn't expect people to change their behaviour just because it isn't in line with what is taught in our culture. Right?
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