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| | Why is it so hard to have a good conversation? Page 2 of 3 (1, 2, 3) | ^^^^^^
I have to agree that usually the subject of money comes up pretty soon in the dating process. The women I meet are somewhat more mature (usually) than in Steve's group, but rest assured that many women DO want to know :
- where I live
- how big my house is
- what I drive
- what kind of job I have
- can I afford to take them to nice places and am I willing to take them out
- can I afford to travel with them
It's not that they come out and ask how much I earn, it's a bit more roundabout than that. In addition, lots of women my age are in the situation of owning a house that is becoming expensive to live in, and they will be my girlfriend "if" I move in with them, and help out with expenses., say 2 or 3K per month. I find this fascinating, they want to keep the lifestyle that they had when the husband was there/alive (lots of widows), so it's up to the new man to make things whole.
This could be due in part because of where I live and who I am dealing with, too. Non-white women don't seem as concerned with these things, they probably assume that a white man with any house is a good catch, but you may be amazed, if not shocked, at the women who end the conversations abruptly because I don't live in an area that suits them.
Then again, in my age group, women are very definitely looking for security, and that means physical assets, not charm and personality.
And for Ms. CA - " There are also possible risks, however, such as heartbreak, sexually transmitted diseases and unintended pregnancies" - I have never had any disease and have been checked out recently, and I'm fixed too. The only thing I CAN do is break your heart:)
R
below - So you admit that you DO ask those questions,,,
OF COURSE we do,,,,!!!! If for no other reason than to find a good match. I don't want to be with a fabulous woman who is embarrassed by my shabby clothes, and I wouldn't feel good about her buying me a new wardrobe, but maybe I could get used to it....You are gonna want to do things with your new guy, and you don't wanna feel like a fool if you always have to pay for everything, so of course,,, money is an issue. Or, more correctly,
LACK of money is the issue.
I would assume that since the beginning, men and women have used what they have to get what they want, and I don't think any power on Earth will change that. | |
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| Why is it so hard to have a good conversation?
Posted: 3/25/2012 11:15:28 AM | ^^^I'm a non-white woman, and I generally don't care...mostly because I am self-sufficient. But I would care for one reason only...that I do not have to support a potential love interest financially.....so I don't ask questions until it gets a little more serious, and then it's just a matter of a little detectve work.
But, men use finances to their advantage also, and that should be recognized. Your worst enemy is not just the women, but equally other men who help condition the women to think in this manner. | |
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| Why is it so hard to have a good conversation?
Posted: 3/25/2012 11:50:42 AM | Msg#17 I don't but It's hard, and I understand why most women make the next guy pay for the last. I just and don't want to do that.
Msg#19 I don't have a problem with women, I've turned down way more than I've been with. I'm sure my OP of a good women is different than yours. And good women "tend" to go off with good men statement is like leap year...
I don't want a bar slut or someone that has to lie all the time, just so they can keep the covo interesting.
But I guess It's my fault for going to bars, where else can single people meet? I don't like church, internet seems like a losing battle field. | |
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| Why is it so hard to have a good conversation?
Posted: 3/25/2012 3:53:36 PM | | You might try showing your brains and not your pecs! If a person finds you intelligent perhaps the conversation would be more stimulating. Try being more introspective to see if you would like a conversation with yourself, by trying that you could find that it is you who are boring not them or not! | |
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| Why is it so hard to have a good conversation?
Posted: 3/25/2012 7:00:53 PM | listen to ladygemini5 because she's spot on. to elaborate, as another gemini, i can say that it is still not easy to find a dude my age (late 20s to early 30s) who's into good conversation. i've had intellectual conversations with people of all ages across the board, male/female/in-between from 15 yrs old (i know, a shock) to 85 yrs old. i like talking about all kinds of things, and i'm usually pretty open about everything. that is a personality trait that i have, and although i don't want to compromise that trait, it can end up being off-putting for most people because we're not socialized to be as open now as people were 40 or 50 years ago. the truth is, i like someone far more when they can be open and gregarious towards me off the bat because i offer that to others.
don't worry. when i was 16 i was freaking out that i'll never find a guy who'll "get me" and likes to talk and have a connection beyond the physical plane. well, ex was 18, nearly 19 when saw me at a party and asked around for my number and quickly snatched me up. you'll never know when and where but i know you'll find some smart chick that you'll be gaga over who'll be the bee's knees and you guys can talk til the cows come home. it's not an age thing, it's a personality trait. don't give up, be open so you can attract someone open. | |
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| Why is it so hard to have a good conversation?
Posted: 3/25/2012 7:09:49 PM |
You might try showing your brains and not your pecs! If a person finds you intelligent perhaps the conversation would be more stimulating. Try being more introspective to see if you would like a conversation with yourself, by trying that you could find that it is you who are boring not them or not!
don't listen to that person. people get so easily jealous when they see someone with a good body. i hate how society is into promoting and protecting fat people but is ANTI those who are into having a good body because somehow having a sexy, nice, healthy body is incongruent with having smarts and interesting personality.
ppppffffftttttttttttt!!!!! completely irrational and bunk!! i think i have a good body and i've got plenty of smarts. you have a great body, don't be ashamed of it. having a defined physique requires discipline and hard work, same goes for developing the mind. a hot person is really someone who's sexy physically and mentally. | |
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| Why is it so hard to have a good conversation?
Posted: 3/29/2012 4:27:54 PM | We live in a world that is increasingly narcissistic. People who do talk typically already have a myopic viewpoint of things, so most anything that runs contrary to what they think leads to conflict. Plus as an earlier poster stated, texting and chatting/IMing has pretty much become the standard means of communication for most teens/young adults.
But beyond that, a lot of these younger kids/teens are shallow because they live in a world that lends credence to their thoughts, feelings, emotions carrying weight, more so than others. Sites like Facebook, while enjoyable, have enabled these attitudes. When you combine that with the ever increasing celebrity adulation, you have a pool of people who value style over substance and myopically believe that their points of view are more valid than someone else. It's hard to find someone with a wealth of interests in your age range because sadly, it doesn't seem to be as valued anymore. | |
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| Why is it so hard to have a good conversation?
Posted: 3/29/2012 4:30:36 PM |
^^^^^^
I have to agree that usually the subject of money comes up pretty soon in the dating process. The women I meet are somewhat more mature (usually) than in Steve's group, but rest assured that many women DO want to know :
- where I live
- how big my house is
- what I drive
- what kind of job I have
- can I afford to take them to nice places and am I willing to take them out
- can I afford to travel with them
It's not that they come out and ask how much I earn, it's a bit more roundabout than that. In addition, lots of women my age are in the situation of owning a house that is becoming expensive to live in, and they will be my girlfriend "if" I move in with them, and help out with expenses., say 2 or 3K per month. I find this fascinating, they want to keep the lifestyle that they had when the husband was there/alive (lots of widows), so it's up to the new man to make things whole.
This could be due in part because of where I live and who I am dealing with, too. Non-white women don't seem as concerned with these things, they probably assume that a white man with any house is a good catch, but you may be amazed, if not shocked, at the women who end the conversations abruptly because I don't live in an area that suits them.
Then again, in my age group, women are very definitely looking for security, and that means physical assets, not charm and personality.
And for Ms. CA - " There are also possible risks, however, such as heartbreak, sexually transmitted diseases and unintended pregnancies" - I have never had any disease and have been checked out recently, and I'm fixed too. The only thing I CAN do is break your heart:)
R
below - So you admit that you DO ask those questions,,,
OF COURSE we do,,,,!!!! If for no other reason than to find a good match. I don't want to be with a fabulous woman who is embarrassed by my shabby clothes, and I wouldn't feel good about her buying me a new wardrobe, but maybe I could get used to it....You are gonna want to do things with your new guy, and you don't wanna feel like a fool if you always have to pay for everything, so of course,,, money is an issue. Or, more correctly,
LACK of money is the issue.
I would assume that since the beginning, men and women have used what they have to get what they want, and I don't think any power on Earth will change that.
rich, that makes me think of that Chris Rock bit where he said women can't drop in status financially and men can't drop sexually. As superficial as what he was saying was, there's a lot of truth in that. Women are driven by security, which is largely financially based, and men are much more sensory driven...i.e. they still chase the tail long past being put out to stud lol | |
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| Why is it so hard to have a good conversation?
Posted: 4/1/2012 8:54:20 AM | I know women won't believe anything unless it's written by a doctor or someone famous. So here you go, written by a doctor. Pay close attention to #2.
http://yahoo.match.com/y/article.aspx?articleid=12468&TrackingID=526103&BannerID=1184536 | |
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| Why is it so hard to have a good conversation?
Posted: 4/1/2012 4:22:06 PM | Steve,
Seems this theme comes up for you time after time, and I frankly think that you maybe bringing this problem onto yourself.....too much obsession can do that.
That article was written by a woman, doctor or not, but it seems to be targeted to specific type of people, and no, I don't relate.
But if this is such an important issue with you, why don't you just come out and tell the woman after a few dates that it would be nice if they would contribute, or maybe even drop hints that you can't take her out until the next paycheck? | |
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| Why is it so hard to have a good conversation?
Posted: 4/1/2012 4:56:23 PM | If women would just acknowledge this happens a lot then I would drop it, but every time it's brought up, women act like a man just saw a Leprochan. "A woman would never do such a thing" they say. -I'm just bringing along my proof. I just saw this article this morning, so I thought Id share.
And again, I'm not saying all women are like that. I'm still dating the same woman I meet on here a few weeks ago who insists on paying her share, which I love -- I'm taking her to Las Vegas next weekend in appreciation for NOT being a self centered, gold digging whore like most women I encounter. I have a nice Spa suite booked and have a nice romantic weekend planned for her. I don't mind being generous to someone who deserves it. | |
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| Why is it so hard to have a good conversation?
Posted: 4/1/2012 6:27:27 PM | ^^Well, there were at least two that responded to your directly that they are happy to dutch....and myself, I let guys buy but I also make my own plans and let them accompany me if they like, and don't expect anyone to pay back for that concert ticket, or a bay cruise, or special dinner, etc. I'm not sure what you are expecting here....for somone to reaffirm what you have found happens to you? If you already have a date, why continue to bemoan this?
I've been on several dates with a guy that loves my company...dinner is always very nice and quirky, surroundings are romatinc, and often involves a art show or play, etc. We have a great time, and I go way out of my way to make sure we have more than fun in return....and not once have I felt that he was put out by the cost...but I cant imagine it being that enjoyable if I was gettin the "wonder what this is going to cost me" vibe. For me, that would be a deal breaker....I hate relationships that get hung up on money, and this would sure be a red flag for me.
If finding someone that wants to share expenses financially is one of your major goals, then audition for it. Don't paint us all with your broad brush, we shouldn't all be made to look bad because you made some bad choices. | |
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| Why is it so hard to have a good conversation?
Posted: 4/1/2012 9:09:54 PM | ^^^^^^
Hey you two - It's time to kiss and make up !! You're wasting valuable bandwidth with all this back-and-forth, and as California's resident curmudgeon, I will be forced to perform a "citizen's banning" from the forums.
R | |
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| Why is it so hard to have a good conversation?
Posted: 4/2/2012 7:51:06 AM |
Hey you two - It's time to kiss and make up !! You're wasting valuable bandwidth with all this back-and-forth, and as California's resident curmudgeon, I will be forced to perform a "citizen's banning" from the forums.
R
No hard feeling on my part....I was just trying to save Steve from himself. ;) I think he's got much going for him, don't want to see it all being wiped out. He's welcome to point out the things he thinks I can use to improve myself. :) | |
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| Why is it so hard to have a good conversation?
Posted: 4/5/2012 2:52:10 AM | Why, you say? Well, there's something around us, called western culture. It's basically non-distinct, it doesn't have much of a philosophical tradition any more, and it's consumer based. It used to be based upon certain religious ideals, and certain thinkers (e.g. Aristotle), but now it's a consumer based society whose sole function is to include everyone, please everyone, and sell to everyone. In our little world, we can entertain ourselves endlessly with imaginary scenarios played out on a glass tube, we can entertain the idea that we have opinions (possibly valid ones), by listening/watching political pundits and demagogues ramble all day long, all the while that we have publicly available and easily accessible sources to inform us as voters, without having to listen to these bums in suits. We have the vocabulary of children, compared to our forefathers, because of our culture.
Culture is a constricting, slow to move, self defining, maddening, sometimes enlightening, ugly and bulbous, and pervasive monster that exerts it's indifferent choke hold on people. You find what refuge you can from it, but you still know that it pervades you to some degree. Whatever identity you have, is up for questioning, because maybe some or most of what makes you yourself, isn't up to you at all, is it?
And other people are caught in the grasp of culture. Maybe we need to look hard enough, and in the right places, if we want to find good conversation. Otherwise, all I can say is tough luck, you were born in the wrong time and place to find a bunch of women that can hold a conversation. Be glad you weren't born in feudal Europe, or the stone age. They had some more pressing concerns, more dire and tragic situations, than we might deal with, eh? | |
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| Why is it so hard to have a good conversation?
Posted: 4/5/2012 3:22:30 AM | | You just have to try and find someone of the same interest. I notice that gamer girls can chat up a storm! I've found that it is a lot easier to converse with random people face to face rather than online. Most girls on here say they are unique and then list the same exact stuff other girls have already listed. May as well copy and paste. | |
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| Why is it so hard to have a good conversation?
Posted: 4/9/2012 12:59:44 PM | At the risk of putting my $0.02 in, I am quite proud to be a cynic. While it does no good to be overtly cynical in speech, it serves as a good counterwight in thought. Let's define cynicism: The propensity to distrust or find false the sincerity or goodness of human motives or intentions.
While I tend to approach relationships with overt humor and kindness, I find that thoughtful cynicism serves to keep your emotional equanimity in good balance. Thus, it serves as a valuable counterforce to raging emotion. | |
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| Why is it so hard to have a good conversation?
Posted: 4/9/2012 1:17:39 PM | Not sure about you, but if I run into a situation where someone gives me a single reason for me to be cynical about, I would likely want to move on. It's a negative emotion, and one you should not have to employ. Now, that may open me up to be lied to, but hey, I think learning from that mistake is a valuable lesson and I hope to experience that without suspicion.
Of course, what we strive for and what happens at times may not be in sync...we can only try. :) | |
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| Why is it so hard to have a good conversation?
Posted: 4/9/2012 3:05:51 PM |
^^^I know, and I enjoy reading it. Just that money thing is starting to get a little grating...IMHO. ;)
I agree Thinking ... Steve your so handsome, funny and smart but its almost like your sabatoging yourself with those remarks like a self fullfilling prophecy kind of thing... Im so glad for this woman to come into your life at this specific time! I was realy beginning to worry about you. | |
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| Why is it so hard to have a good conversation?
Posted: 4/10/2012 5:53:59 PM | Well, I think no one is perfect, even those who imagine they are.Therefore, a single reason that sets my cynicism meter started is not a deal breaker. It's the cumulation of perceptions and realizations that finally tips the bucket
But aren't we getting away from the initial question which is why it is so hard to have a good conversation? Good conversations happen to me all the time, just not initally when meeting someone whom I may be interested as a partner.
And one person's intelligent conversation is an utter bore to somenone else. So we go on talking to perfect strangers, hoping for that note of friendship. It's a difficult world. | |
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| Why is it so hard to have a good conversation?
Posted: 4/11/2012 12:06:51 AM | ^^I rarely have problems filtering out the guys that do offer good conversation. Of course, that doesn't necessarily mean I will end up liking the person, or that person will also have the type of temperment that I hope from a prospective date. But at least they can communicate, and that's always a good start. :)
Just going back to the previous point, I hope I did't come across as arrogant on the subject. I know what you mean, it's easy to get suspicious and cynicism is inevitable when one is presented with discrepancies. Maybe I get spooked easily on this point, but its simpler to avoid it if you can early on and move on. Other times, I wonder why I didn't listen to the voice sooner. ;) | |
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