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| | New ID voter law?Page 7 of 29 (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29) | "Gawd! Don´t you guys EVER get tired of blaming illegals for all the woes of this country?"
Gawd, then... who we are going to blaim? | |
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| New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/24/2012 8:48:40 AM |
"Gawd! Don´t you guys EVER get tired of blaming illegals for all the woes of this country?"
Gawd, then... who we are going to blaim?
When and if the illegal immigration problem is corrected the next problem should be addressed.
This problem is effecting not only elections but the tax base and draining monies from state and federal coffers that should go to Americans or not be spent at all thereby lowering the national debt.
As far as whom is to blame when someone commits a crime whether it is a mugging or coming to this country illegally or voting illegally, they are to blame.......I mean you don't blame the victim do you? | |
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| New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/24/2012 10:59:41 AM | "Our entire country was based on legal immigration."
"NO our country was based on legal immigration!"
I beg to differ, for most of the life of our country, there were no complicated immigration rules, people who had the money, basically boarded a boat bound for our shores, and we admitted them.
Then they went through the process of becoming citizens, in most cases. Again though, there were no laws, that took care of the poor for the most part. Work was plentiful, mostly agricultural, some were in industrialized endeavors as well.
All that has changed, different groups brought with them different issues. Our own laws have been made more complex, with Quota's, and the like.
I will not stand here and pose as an expert on the issue. Neither should most of you.(unless it's your particular field of work or expertise) Now we have the boat people of Haiti and other nations, the Mexicans and those people of central america, making their way here. Some by legal means(student visa's) then never returning to their countries.
Many work off the books(is it their fault so many employers, ignore the law?), some use forged or stolen documents. Now I have to ask something of you guys. If your family was starving, living at or below the poverty line, wouldn't you do all you could to improve their lives? Even if it meant crossing a border illegally to get a job and send money back home?
All that aside, it has little to nothing to do with voting here. There is no line of illegals standing at poling places to sway policy. Heck the people IN power, can't seem to sway policy! | |
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| New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/24/2012 11:32:24 AM |
I beg to differ, for most of the life of our country, there were no complicated immigration rules, people who had the money, basically boarded a boat bound for our shores, and we admitted them. Then they went through the process of becoming citizens, in most cases.
That's not accurate. The Constitution makes it one of Congress' enumerated powers to "establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization." The Supreme Court has recognized that Congress has no more complete control in any field than it does in alienage. Immigration from China and other countries has been discouraged or even prevented at various times in our history.
There is no line of illegals standing at poling places to sway policy.
Do you have any evidence for that? Illegal aliens have an obvious incentive to favor more social welfare spending. There are probably fifteen million or more of these people in the U.S. Not to require voters to show they're eligible is to invite voting by illegal aliens. I see no reason to trust people who have violated our immigration laws to respect our voting laws. | |
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| New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/24/2012 12:17:42 PM | Hey Oy
You wrote:
"I beg to differ, for most of the life of our country, there were no complicated immigration rules, people who had the money, basically boarded a boat bound for our shores, and we admitted them.'
I cannot even begin to tell you how much that statement PISSES ME OFF. YOU , obviously have NO FU@KING CLUE when it comes to how imigration to this country worked in the '50's, '60's '70's and now.
Here is your first lesson: MONEY had nothing to do with it, unless you were coming here for a JOB. Then how it worked was that the employer had to show hardship in finding a person who lived here already to fill that particular skilled position, and that the new potenital emigree could do that particualr type of work.... AND, a SPONSOR had to GAURANTEE that the new emigree would have a place to live, and would NOT be a burden on the "social programs; welfare, etc" AND, the new emigree had to go to SCHOOL for english language proficiency...........
After series of lawsuits by the ACLU, most of those requirements were scrapped.
How do I know the previous? Because I was there when my parents helped many come to this country LEGALLY, by the book.
Then you asked:
"Now I have to ask something of you guys. If your family was starving, living at or below the poverty line, wouldn't you do all you could to improve their lives? Even if it meant crossing a border illegally to get a job and send money back home?"
We DID live in a communist country, well below the poverty level even for that country, and my parents had the minimum aptitude to know that coming here illegally would acomplish NOTHING, and that the ONLY way to be able to access the prosperity that this country still offers, we would have to enter the country legally. For your information, there have ALWAYS been quotas as to how many could come from what country, and there were also exceptions.
GET IT?
However, you are 100% correct when you say that you are no expert on the subject.
Paul K | |
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| New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/24/2012 12:43:26 PM | WOW!!! Reading comprehension has gone out the window here!! That usually happens when folks see what they want to see, and not what was written!
Frankly Paul, I don't give a sh1t whether what I wrote does anything for you at ALL! Nor do I care for what your experience was or is!
I wrote "for most of the life of this country", you just wrote "there have ALWAYS been quotas" OK then show the law that had that in it from 1776 until 1876? Show where the quota was when the Irish came here after the famine. Then I can agree with your stance. According to what I know quota's began in 1924. Now color me crazy, but that's 150 years give or take of this nations history, out of 236 years.
That would also apply to my other friend with his "that's not accurate" statement, show me the quota law back then!
As for "Do you have any evidence for that?", well I vote, I've stood in those lines, and not seen a plethora of people who looked illegal, no overwhelming large group of hispanics standing there waiting to unseat the republicants! What about you? Do you have any evidence of the other side of the argument? | |
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| New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/24/2012 1:15:11 PM | Hey Oy...
You wrote:
"As for "Do you have any evidence for that?", well I vote, I've stood in those lines, and not seen a plethora of people who looked illegal,"
Anecdotal, at best. I see evidence of what illegal imigration has done to where I live, since we are now at an anectodotal level, every day...............................
Writing how things were in the late 1700, when we are discussing voter ID law that is being bandied about NOW, is a little irrelevant. Even you admitted that things have changed................
Paul K | |
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| New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/24/2012 3:37:45 PM |
According to what I know quota's began in 1924. Now color me crazy, but that's 150 years give or take of this nations history, out of 236 years.
That isn't accurate. The Chinese Exclusion Act became law in 1882. Restricting immigration is nothing new or exceptional in this country. | |
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| New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/24/2012 3:43:04 PM |
As for "Do you have any evidence for that?", well I vote, I've stood in those lines, and not seen a plethora of people who looked illegal
Just cause I can't resist... I'm a legal Permanent Resident of the United States but I'm not an official US Citizen yet. Which means I don't get to vote yet. But if I tried my luck just for fun, would *I* stand out as an illegal in line, or someone who shouldn't be voting? At first glance? Especially if they don't check ID and someone else gave me their voter registration card?
Just saying. | |
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| New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/24/2012 3:57:25 PM | Hey sweetness
You want to vote?
Easy peasy....... just do like the illegal aliens do...... First come to California, get a California Drivers License, then use that to register to vote. IF they ask you for ID, ALL you would have to show is the CDL that you used to register in the first place.
In California, the illegals don't stand out in line, because there are so many hispanics who are citizens and vote legally.
What voter registration card????? I haven't had one for years, and that is not necessary in order to vote, if you are asked for ID. The ID that you would have to produce is either a state or fed ID that shows that "YOU" are really "YOU".
Done deal.
Paul K | |
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| New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/24/2012 4:11:39 PM | ^^^ That's fantastic news, Paul! So if I don't need a voter registration card, don't stand out in the crowd that I shouldn't be there in the first place, and they probably won't ask for any ID anyway, then hell, I'll take two! Heck, I might as well just take the entire day off and make the rounds, voting at each station in my immediate area, since it's evidently so abhorrent to some that ID should be required in the first place. Heck, why even bother registering, if they aren't going to cross-reference at the polling booth anyway, right?
Cool! What a fantastic system this is! Thanks to all who are championing the "no ID necessary" philosophy!  | |
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| New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/24/2012 4:19:54 PM | I apologize, I had to go and research that legislation, and a sterling piece of work it was! Another in a long line of republican "who can we screw this time" laws!
All of you must be so proud to align yourselves with one of the groups who supported it, the "Supreme Order of Caucasians"...isn't that like the KKK?
Gawd, I bet the white guys were happy that wasn't passed BEFORE the chinese built the transcontinental railroad, or they would have had to do that back breaking work themselves, given the civil war had freed the slaves! Hahahahaha!!
Even reading the background of the political situation at the time, has great parallels to what is going on here. They felt the chinese were holding down wages. Of course most of them did jobs the white guys didn't want anyway, like laundry and such.
Kinda like today where many hispanics take the jobs of dishwasher, or busboy, or lawn worker. That so many white guys are fighting for! Yeah right!!!
Though I must admit it, you were right. I had no idea that the republicans of 130 years ago were equally as big a pricks as they are today!
Ok onto voter ID, so where is this proof of major fraud at the polls?
As for my other buddy, I don't have to see what they are doing to your neghborhood archie, they are no better than those OWS guys right?
Like I said earlier, I doubt many of them would go to the polls, to chance someone would pick them up and deport them. Yes I'm sure you guys are right, they like to work the system, just like a lot of other people do. Is it wrong, absolutely. Should they be expelled from the country, absolutely if the are here illiegally.
Alas, that doesn't change or solve the issues needed to be corrected by a major bill on the immigration issue. | |
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| New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/24/2012 6:40:47 PM | Why New Photo ID Laws Mean Some Won't Vote
by COREY DADE
EnlargeMax Whittaker/Getty Images
Stickers at a Nevada polling place on Election Day 2010.
text size A A A January 28, 2012
The argument over whether voters should have to present photo identification at the polls usually splits along party lines. Republicans who favor the requirement say it prevents ballot fraud. Democrats and election rights groups who oppose it say it is meant to suppress turnout.
And people of all political stripes wonder what all the fuss is about.
Most Americans are accustomed to whipping out photo IDs at work, the bank or even their own apartment buildings. And their driver's license — perhaps the most common form of government-issued photo ID — has become just as indispensable.
"I get that all the time: 'What's the big deal? I just got my driver's license renewed, it took like five seconds,' " says Larry Norden, acting director of the Democracy Program at the Brennan Center for Justice at New York University, which opposes these laws. "Frankly, that's why these laws have been so successful, because 89 percent of the population does have photo IDs."
That leaves another 3.2 million Americans who don't possess a government-issued picture ID, according to a recent study co-authored by Norden.
In 2008, the Supreme Court upheld a voter-identification law in Indiana, saying that requiring voters to produce photo identification is not unconstitutional and affirming that states have a "valid interest" in improving election procedures and deterring fraud.
Four years later, 31 states require voters to show some form of identification at the polls. Fifteen of them require photo IDs. At least five of those states just recently passed tough new photo ID voting laws that could affect voters for the first time in 2012.
The Justice Department is now involved (so far, rejecting a South Carolina law), and the courts are soon to follow due to the growing number of lawsuits challenging these laws.
As the battle intensifies, some basic questions are being raised: How many Americans don't have government-issued picture identification? And how, in this era of post-9/11 security and digital commerce, could anyone function without it?
Who Are They?
By all estimates, those least likely to have a government-issued photo ID fall into one of four categories: the elderly, minorities, the poor and young adults aged 18 to 24. The Brennan Center estimates that 18 percent of all seniors and 25 percent of African-Americans don't have picture IDs.
Seniors traditionally have been the most consistent voting group, particularly in absentee balloting. Turnout among minorities has steadily risen over the years and reached a record in 2008 (when the rate of black turnout virtually equaled that of whites for the first time). Also in 2008, turnout of under-24-year-olds reached its highest rate since 1992.
Why Don't They Have Photo IDs?
Many people have multiple forms of identification, including those that display their pictures — like employee badges or credit and debit cards. But states with strict voter ID laws require people to have certain photo IDs issued by governments.
That typically means driver's licenses. But many seniors and many poor people don't drive. In big cities, many minorities rely on public transit. And many young adults, especially those in college, don't yet have licenses.
Voter ID Laws Across The Nation
Source: National Conference of State Legislatures
A good number of these people, particularly seniors, function well with the IDs they have long had — such as Medicaid cards, Social Security cards or bank cards. Among the elderly, many of them have banked at the same branch for so long that tellers recognize them without needing to see their IDs. They also may rarely need to cash or deposit checks, relying instead on the direct depositing of Social Security and pension payments.
"The people we're finding are very poor people, people who never drove — and it's surprising how many people are like that," says Larry Dupuis of the American Civil Liberties Union of Wisconsin, which has filed suit to overturn that state's voter ID law. "They tend to be older people, often women. They also never had a need for a state ID card. There are many things you don't need an ID card for that people think you actually need one for."
Among minorities in poor and rural communities, it's common to bypass banks with their paychecks and rely on cash-checking stores, which will accept most forms of photo ID.
Many states offer non-driver IDs that can be displayed when voting, often provided by motor vehicle agencies.
But that can create a host of problems for some. Rural residents can live great distances from state motor vehicle offices. And some state motor vehicle agencies have chronically long wait times for customers. In Tennessee, which has a new voter ID law, the governor has raised concerns about whether offices are prepared to handle an increased volume of ID seekers.
To Get An ID, You Need An ID
In most states with voter ID laws, citizens must present birth certificates to obtain new photo IDs. Seniors and those born in rural areas, in particular, face a difficult time meeting the requirement because birth certificates weren't regularly generated in the 1930s and earlier. And many of these people were delivered by midwives, who often improperly spelled babies' and parents' names on birth documents.
People are caught in a Catch-22: You need a birth certificate to get this ID, but to get a birth certificate you have to have an ID.
- Elisabeth MacNamara, League of Women Voters.
If a state does have a person's birth certificate, they often must present a photo ID to obtain a copy. That can put an individual back at square one.
"People are caught in a Catch-22: You need a birth certificate to get this ID, but to get a birth certificate you have to have an ID," says Elisabeth MacNamara, who heads the League of Women Voters.
MacNamara also notes that a birth certificate may not be sufficient documentation for women who changed their names after marrying. States require them to present their marriage licenses or divorce decrees.
Here are three longtime voters and their stories in trying to comply with new voter ID laws.
http://www.npr.org/2012/01/28/146006217/why-new-photo-id-laws-mean-some-wont-vote
I personally hope all those on this thread that are having trouble comprehending why some folks don't have a photo ID read the three stories at the end of the article. These stories represent a large population of the United States.
And OyVay...I send you a great big kiss for your words, thank you!!  | |
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| New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/24/2012 7:39:24 PM | I personally hope all those on this thread that are having trouble comprehending why some folks don't have a photo ID read the three stories at the end of the article. These stories represent a large population of the United States.
This is probably going to sound harsh... But, WHO CARES!
Voting is not a universal right. We are NOT a democracy. It is a responsibility and those that are responsible are those who vote. No one is locked out of voting. Show some attempt at being a member of society even at the most minimum level and go vote.
The pandering and helplessness has just got to stop. Put your stupid capes away. You are not saviors. | |
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| New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/24/2012 9:21:36 PM | @ Msg #166. Thanks for posting what those of us who are against these bullsh*t laws already know.
MJ,
Yeah right. Face it. Those laws will more than likely never be enforced, and I don't think it has much to do with illegals not being able to vote if they were enforced. | |
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| New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/25/2012 8:27:11 AM | This is probably going to sound harsh.
It's important to say what you need to say, harsh or otherwise?!
But, WHO CARES!
I CARE!
Voting is not a universal right. We are NOT a democracy. It is a responsibility and those that are responsible are those who vote.
The folks mentioned in the article have been voting longer than I've been alive. Seems to me, and according to your words they've been being "responsible"?!
No one is locked out of voting.
"To Get An ID, You Need An ID
In most states with voter ID laws, citizens must present birth certificates to obtain new photo IDs. Seniors and those born in rural areas, in particular, face a difficult time meeting the requirement because birth certificates weren't regularly generated in the 1930s and earlier. And many of these people were delivered by midwives, who often improperly spelled babies' and parents' names on birth documents.
People are caught in a Catch-22: You need a birth certificate to get this ID, but to get a birth certificate you have to have an ID."
I'd say the people who find themselves in the above scenario are "locked out of voting"?!
Show some attempt at being a member of society even at the most minimum level and go vote.
The seniors in the article (and other seniors) have been voting for a very long time, now they're stuck in bureaucratic bullshit, and you're telling them to make "an attempt" at being a member of society? I don't get your reasoning?!
The pandering and helplessness has just got to stop. Put your stupid capes away. You are not saviors.
I was taught to respect my elders! I think the position they (seniors) have been put into is unfair, and we should find a way for them to continue voting if they have no means of acquiring a photo ID?!
And I'll put my cape away when I'm damn good and ready!  | |
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| New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/25/2012 9:00:52 AM |
"To Get An ID, You Need An ID
In most states with voter ID laws, citizens must present birth certificates to obtain new photo IDs. Seniors and those born in rural areas, in particular, face a difficult time meeting the requirement because birth certificates weren't regularly generated in the 1930s and earlier. And many of these people were delivered by midwives, who often improperly spelled babies' and parents' names on birth documents.
People are caught in a Catch-22: You need a birth certificate to get this ID, but to get a birth certificate you have to have an ID."
I'd say the people who find themselves in the above scenario are "locked out of voting"?!
Ok... So your argument is that people 90 and older might possibly not have a photo ID in rural areas...
http://www.census.gov/prod/2011pubs/acs-17.pdf
That is a Census report for people over 90. It seems it is near universal health insurance coverage for them. How do they pick up their medication?
http://www.census.gov/prod/cen2010/briefs/c2010br-09.pdf
Sorry, for the population in their 90's is near 2 million but over 100 is just about 50 thousand and the majority are women.
The amount that fall into this strange loophole of hard to get an id is quite small and will continue to shrink. There are even ways to address this (voterID #) as well.
the cape is really just for show. | |
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| New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/25/2012 9:20:34 AM |
I'd say the people who find themselves in the above scenario are "locked out of voting"?!
I'd say it's odd this alleged problem is only coming to light now, when it must have existed for decades.
The plain, shameful truth is that millions of people who live in America despise their country. They want to use it for whatever they can get, and if they ruin it, no great loss. These citizens of the world think the U.S., at least as we've always known it, has got it coming for all its wicked deeds. And making it easy for illegal aliens to vote is part of this destructive process. It adds more voices for "fundamental transformation," as the illustrious Mr. Obama calls it. | |
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| New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/25/2012 11:19:38 AM | "But, WHO CARES!"
then "The pandering and helplessness has got to stop."
OK, then why don't you stop? You have been on this thread, and the "war on women" thread, as much as anyone. Why are you bothering if you don't care?
Ohhhh, wait I get it, our opinions don't count, it's only yours and you're tired of seeing people disagree with you and the other conservatives. I won't even address your demeaning concept of capes.
If no one cares, just stop posting and lead your life, forget the arguments and discussions, start posting in the "dating" section or the "dating over 30" section, you'll be so much happier and since you don't care, this will relieve you of having to post here!
Someone asked how they get their meds. Ever here of online or meds by mail? Just a thought for ya.
"it's odd this alleged problem is only coming to light now"
Well, WOW!! I'm kinda surprised you would say that given the discussion, you guys have only over the last few years(2) tried to change the laws and disenfranchise these people.
"that millions of people who live in America despise their country"
Now that statement should be on your profile, so people will realize how you view others. That is some sick sh1t! People want to "ruin it", why becuase they don't agree with you? The 'people' you are talking about, are the ones who volunteer to help others, fight most of the wars, and may see things differently than you do, and want to work to change it.
How can you be so duplicitous? You post this on here, but sing a totally different song on the Trayvon Martin thread. You guys are the ones pandering. You guys are the ones who don't care about other Americans, UNLESS they see it your way. | |
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| New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/25/2012 12:30:09 PM |
Now that statement should be on your profile, so people will realize how you view others.
Thanks for the helpful tip--I'll take it under consideration. Isn't it normal not to think the same of everyone? I like most people, but I would love to have three minutes in a boxing ring with a cur like Mr. Obama's pal William Ayers. I think he and millions of similar specimens who want to ruin this country are beneath contempt. But I don't know why my low opinion of them should offend anyone else.
That is some sick sh1t! . . . How can you be so duplicitous?
You seem to make a habit of that kind of personal insult, and not just to me. I'm sure it has something to do with the misstatements of fact that are also a regular feature of your posts. I've noticed that people who are short on facts and reason often try to hide their weakness behind angry bluster.
You guys are the ones pandering
"You guys?" Who is that? I don't speak for anyone but myself, nor do I pander to anyone. | |
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| New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/25/2012 12:50:29 PM | OK, then why don't you stop? You have been on this thread, and the "war on women" thread, as much as anyone. Why are you bothering if you don't care?
Oh you know quite well that I meant "Who Cares" about trying to equalize the entire country to the most incapacitated of all in order to avoid even the most basic attempts at showing a vote was cast legitimately.
The arguments against having a legal and accountable voting process are false. There is nothing but basic reasonable expectations involved and unreasonable cases against it.
Making up millions of legal disenfranchised is making it up no matter how much you want to believe it. For those few that are outside of that edge... Uhhh If they are that motivated there are many paths available. Just try.
I would rather prevent you traveling to another state to vote against a state election that you have no legal right at the risk of making it too difficult for an infirm person that may or may not have the capacity to participate.
You are a much bigger threat to the voting process than they are and that is just a reasonable expectation and not an accusation. I have the same capacity. | |
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| New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/25/2012 2:22:17 PM | From what I've seen "most" of the issues with voting have been associated with same day voting (as registering)...maybe???a rework on that would be
/might a better revamp of the process then saying the system is completly broken and risk disenfranchising some voters...it does seem as though the "baby with the bathwater" approach is a little dramatic. | |
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| New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/25/2012 4:45:48 PM |
might a better revamp of the process then saying the system is completly broken and risk disenfranchising some voters...it does seem as though the "baby with the bathwater" approach is a little dramatic.
Wow so being sure only legal voters are casting votes and making sure people can't vote multiple times. Is throwing the baby out with the bath water!
Seems to me it is just assuring the laws of this country are enforced. | |
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| New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/25/2012 5:05:58 PM |
Cool! What a fantastic system this is! Thanks to all who are championing the "no ID necessary" philosophy! The lady is brilliant... with enough support and the less than secure laws for voting, we could make the US the 11th province... | |
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| New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/25/2012 5:19:32 PM |
Wow so being sure only legal voters are casting votes and making sure people can't vote multiple times. Is throwing the baby out with the bath water!
Seems to me it is just assuring the laws of this country are enforced.
Go find someone else's posts to troll off of. | |
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