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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > So how did that Iraq thing work out for us?      Home login  
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 Stray__Cat
Joined: 7/12/2006
Msg: 26
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So how did that Iraq thing work out for us?Page 2 of 4    (1, 2, 3, 4)
I would say no.
In fact I would say HELL NO it wasn't worth it.

And to think....
we are being told bombing Iran
will be an even easier cakewalk than Iraq was.
:-(
 want to travel
Joined: 7/29/2006
Msg: 27
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So how did that Iraq thing work out for us?
Posted: 3/21/2012 5:12:15 PM
Iran is the next big thing
Iran does not have any serious WOMD, capabilities
just like Iraq never had any

but the corporate wars will go on, and the tax payer will keep getting flossed, the really sad thing is, the tax payer, is going to be our children, and there children's children

all to keep 1%, powerful

oh, and keep Israel safe
 OyVay...
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 28
So how did that Iraq thing work out for us?
Posted: 3/21/2012 5:24:53 PM
"because they don't see the country like the list you have above"

OK aries, show me one thing on that list that isn't true?

"do not want to bankrupt the country"

ARE YOU SHITTIN ME? The cost of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars all came from the republicans. The real estate crisis came from their non-regulation stance.

THEY ALREADY BANKRUPTED THE COUNTRY!!! All that's left is for them to drive the last nails in the coffin. Who are they gonna elect? Etch-a-sketch Rommney? I'm a catholic after 3 divorces Gingrich? Or the equal of the ayatollah Santorum?

Oh c'mon, do you guys really believe all that sh1t they have been shovelin the past 4 months?
 Balsamica
Joined: 2/24/2012
Msg: 29
So how did that Iraq thing work out for us?
Posted: 3/21/2012 6:30:29 PM
Aries, huh?

Medicare Part D is hugely expensive, not paid for, enacted under Bush
Iraq was also a huge expense, not paid for, enacted under Bush

Bush got a surplus, turned it into a huge deficit with a snowball effect that Obama is being blamed for........

Republicans SAY they are fiscally conservative, but the track record is that they are not.
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 30
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So how did that Iraq thing work out for us?
Posted: 3/21/2012 7:12:41 PM
http://blog.heritage.org/2009/03/24/bush-deficit-vs-obama-deficit-in-pictures/

So you want me to agree that increasing spending on entitlements and social programs at incredibly high rates is a seriously idiotic move economically.

Ok. I agree.




•President Bush expanded the federal budget by a historic $700 billion through 2008. President Obama would add another $1 trillion.
•President Bush began a string of expensive finan­cial bailouts. President Obama is accelerating that course.
•President Bush created a Medicare drug entitle­ment that will cost an estimated $800 billion in its first decade. President Obama has proposed a $634 billion down payment on a new govern­ment health care fund.
•President Bush increased federal education spending 58 percent faster than inflation. Presi­dent Obama would double it.
•President Bush became the first President to spend 3 percent of GDP on federal antipoverty programs. President Obama has already in­creased this spending by 20 percent.
•President Bush tilted the income tax burden more toward upper-income taxpayers. President Obama would continue that trend.


•President Bush presided over a $2.5 trillion increase in the public debt through 2008. Setting aside 2009 (for which Presidents Bush and Obama share responsibility for an additional $2.6 trillion in public debt), President Obama’s budget would add $4.9 trillion in public debt from the beginning of 2010 through 2016.


This link may make it a bit more clear it is the combination and and back and forth over majority parties that has the impact more than just who the president is
http://home.adelphi.edu/sbloch/deficits.html

 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 31
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So how did that Iraq thing work out for us?
Posted: 3/21/2012 7:36:01 PM

Medicare Part D is hugely expensive, not paid for, enacted under Bush
Well, at least the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act should be able to help us out with that. With PPACA we will eventually be rid of Medicare Part D ... Medicare will not be necessary anymore.

I'm hoping we'll get credit for paying into it ... now if they just leave us our Social Security ... or should I say PLEASE PAY IT BACK BEFORE WE ALL NEED IT!

Iraq was something a "high functioning moron" would do ... does that say enough?
 jimmiex
Joined: 2/13/2008
Msg: 32
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So how did that Iraq thing work out for us?
Posted: 3/21/2012 8:39:31 PM
in 1987 i visited yugoslavia and the soviet union. there wasn't the slightest clue that within four years yugoslavia would fall into fraticidal warfare and dissolve. and
i saw nothing in the soviet union indicating the berlin wall would come down in two years and two years later the union would be no more.

having those experiences i can confidentially say the united states will not exist as a single geopolitical unit by the end of this decade. because unlike yugoslavia and the soviet union the signs here are everywhere if you are willing to look and then admit to yourself what you see.
 Balsamica
Joined: 2/24/2012
Msg: 33
So how did that Iraq thing work out for us?
Posted: 3/21/2012 8:40:58 PM
Aries, I don't know which antipoverty, entitlement or social service programs you refer to. My understanding is that the Prez only has direct authority over discretionary spending, not mandatory spending and the latter, incuding entitlements, is beyond his control.

SNAP eligibility hasn't changed, just more people qualifying but nothing Obama can do about it. The eligibility rules would have to change through an act of Congress.

The entitlements I am familiar with haven't changed, either, though more people may qualify under existing rules, again. TANF ...welfare...is block granted and has remained the same funding level since 1996. Social Security disability has gone up, something of a back door for welfare, but genuine ADD and other type cases and again, the rules haven't changed, just the numbers applying and qualifying.
 FrancoisVillon
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 34
So how did that Iraq thing work out for us?
Posted: 3/21/2012 9:46:50 PM
No it was not.
What puzzle me is that many Americans din't agree.
Yet when Bush,talked about" Anty patriotic", every one shut up.
I know half of us din't agree, but not too many tried to shut him down. I din't like the sucker to start with, and was happy thinking he was going to be impeached like Nixon.
It din't happen.

So may question is why ?

What happen here ?

Most intelligent cityzens remembered Viet-Nam .
Well, when the majority is mad of freaking red neck, I guess it is hard to stand up ?
Brazil don't need oil like we do, but again we can fight the oils barons apparently.
Do what most people do all over the world.
Go to the streets and voice your opinion. Most people in the worl don't have guns, we do .
If we have to died , like our kid did, at least let it be for an good cause.
Have guts , WTF ?
The one pulling the strings, and making us suffer are having a good time looking at our azz right now.
 Yule_liquor
Joined: 12/7/2011
Msg: 35
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So how did that Iraq thing work out for us?
Posted: 3/21/2012 9:51:54 PM

Was it worth it?


When this question was posed to Bill Clinton some years ago; his answer was unequivocally YES, citing that SH was very dangerous, and had he given the order to re-invade Iraq (and he almost had to); he would have strived to depose him.

His wife (for lack of a better term); instead gave a nebulous response.

The real question is whether the war was conducted correctly and the answer seems to be NO!
 FrancoisVillon
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 36
So how did that Iraq thing work out for us?
Posted: 3/21/2012 11:03:58 PM
Say what ?
If the war was conducted correctly?
Do you mind explaing ?
 Balsamica
Joined: 2/24/2012
Msg: 37
So how did that Iraq thing work out for us?
Posted: 3/22/2012 7:25:09 AM
The fact remains that we made a preemptive strike based on the assumption we were in imminent danger from Iraq due to alleged WMDS and none of that was true.

We invaded and wreaked havoc on a country because we were sore at Arabs, but that country did us no harm and it is none of our business how they conduct themselves in the Middle East.

This kind of stuff is sucking up our tax money and giving us less stability, not more, and it has to stop.
 judydentures
Joined: 2/27/2012
Msg: 38
So how did that Iraq thing work out for us?
Posted: 3/22/2012 7:48:46 PM
Obviously it was a major disaster for all involved. But they have to keep the MIC working. The will of the people means nothing, and the media spews nonsense. I'm not sure how the thing can be fixed.
 slybandit
Joined: 7/10/2006
Msg: 39
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So how did that Iraq thing work out for us?
Posted: 3/24/2012 2:09:26 PM
Well, it really depends on what you mean, and what you think was being attempted. Success or failure all depends on how you opt to define or re-define the goals.

Think bigger for a second.

What are the larger geopolitical and geo-strategic goals of the U.S. which have been pursued consistently for centuries, REGARDLESS of which party or President was in power?

1. Complete domination of the North American continent by the U.S. Army and concomitant economic control of North America. Accomplished by the defeat of the Mexican military in the early 1800's.
2. Systematic elimination of any real threat of a competing power in the Western Hemisphere. Already accomplished in part by Latin America's geography, which leaves Mexico and Canada the only other nations in the hemisphere with access to both oceans. Completed by the Monroe Doctrine, blocking European powers.
3. Complete control of seaborne approaches to the U.S. to prevent any invasion by sea. Acquisition of Alaska during the Civil War, annexation of Hawaii 1898, eliminating staging points in the Pacific. Control of the Atlantic route attained in WWII by forcing the UK to surrender it's network of bases in a near-extortionate trade for support in Lend-Lease.
4. Complete control of the oceans, planet-wide, by building a naval force several times more powerful than any possible coalition of competitors. Mostly accomplished by mid-way through the Cold War, but still ongoing. Currently being further pursued by extension of the satellite surveillance networks and weaponization of orbital space, thus permitting control of the terms of all global trade.
5. Preventing any other nation from possibly challenging US power. The Iraq 'debacle', if you want to call it that, is all about this. It does not even matter whether the WMD stuff is true or pretext. A nation could not be permitted to potentially threaten to have a meaningful impact upon global oil supply unless it was beholden to the U.S. for it's security.

Iraq was a blip on the radar. For all the wailing, and even if you assume a fair amount of lying by the US DoD, you have less than 5000 KIA, 32 000 wounded.

What it did do is succinctly inform every government in the region that any attempt on their part to challenge the structure of the global system will lead to (a) their leadership dead, (b) their country reduced to a violent, ungovernable anarchy, probably at the mercy of its neighbors.

That's what the Iraq War accomplished. All of this talk of "democracy building" or "removing an evil dictator" or "combating terrorism" is just empty rhetoric, it's the capers on the salad. Whether the U.S. government should have spent the money on the health care system, education, or simply transferred it directly to Halliburton/KBR without all the theater is beside the point. It's a system imperative. If Iraq had been permitted to seize Saudi oilfields or even give anyone the idea that such a thing could even be conceivable, eventually there would be no surplus to spend on health care and so forth, and some people in Mexico would get it into their heads to try and get California and Texas back.
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 40
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So how did that Iraq thing work out for us?
Posted: 3/24/2012 3:15:44 PM

What it did do is succinctly inform every government in the region that any attempt on their part to challenge the structure of the global system will lead to (a) their leadership dead, (b) their country reduced to a violent, ungovernable anarchy, probably at the mercy of its neighbors.


This is very much along the lines of what I think as well. Want to bet that Arab Spring would have had a different message if it had occurred under a republican leadership. Possibly with different outcomes and a much different support approach.. or maybe not... will never know.
 judydentures
Joined: 2/27/2012
Msg: 41
So how did that Iraq thing work out for us?
Posted: 3/25/2012 12:01:29 AM
The idea is to keep the entire ME destabilized. That's the goal. The regime changes were put into place long long ago. Kristol and Perle have been speaking about this stuff for many many years, which of course alerted Iran....and you see the outcome.

Iraq was not just a blip. Iraq, along with the financial meltdown, has nearly bankrupt this country. And, sadly, it pretty much proved to the Arab world that we will always side with Israel no matter what.

You're correct, it is a message to every country on earth that the elites will not be challenged. We have a military that we need to keep busy, we have multinationals that need resources, and Israel must be protected from imaginary foes.

It's sickening when you consider what could have been done with that money.
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 42
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So how did that Iraq thing work out for us?
Posted: 3/25/2012 12:22:44 AM
What's really sickening, is the near total lack of remorse for killing, maiming, terrorizing, poisoning, starving and displacing tens of millions of innocent people for a pack of lies.

And while we're at it, the US casualty toll is at minimum, around 700,000 or so when we factor in PTSD and TBIs that will affect these veterans for the rest of their shortened lives. Add in the spike in veteran suicides, including vets of other wars who had their PTSD come roaring back with a vengence when Shock and Awe came after shuck and jive. 6000 a year on the Bush/Cheney/PNAC death tab.
 ThinkinginCA
Joined: 4/14/2010
Msg: 43
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So how did that Iraq thing work out for us?
Posted: 3/25/2012 2:54:48 AM
The scenario has not changed since the time of US Marine Corp Major General Smedley Butler who wrote that "War is a Racket".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Is_a_Racket

Bush and Cheney went into Iraq because the oil companies were chafing under the devalued price of oil due to the embargo placed on Saddam by Clinton..despite the embargo, Saddam was able to sell his oil for cheaper than world market, thereby decreasing the prices.

Halliburton is technically not an oil company, they are oil services company...they build the infrastructure...and as they did in Vietnam prior, they were contracted by the military to do just that in Iraq.

Iran is now in the crosshairs because they too can pressure the price of oil downwards, especially now that they too have been embargoed.

It's pure luck for the oil companies that creating the tensions also increases the price of oil simply because Iran can disrupt the movement of oil through the very narrow Straits of Hormuz.

The military industrial complex works as hand in glove to maintain a hold on worlds resources....and they are paid handsomely for it.
 ThinkinginCA
Joined: 4/14/2010
Msg: 44
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So how did that Iraq thing work out for us?
Posted: 3/25/2012 3:04:01 AM
Butler's summary on the racket he helped pull off:

"War is a racket. It always has been. It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of the people. Only a small 'inside' group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few, at the expense of the very many. Out of war a few people make huge fortunes."

In another often cited quote from the book Butler says:

I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested. Looking back on it, I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.

The book is also interesting historically as Butler points out in 1935 that the US is engaging in military war games in the Pacific that are bound to provoke the Japanese.

"The Japanese, a proud people, of course will be pleased beyond expression to see the United States fleet so close to Nippon's shores. Even as pleased as would be the residents of California were they to dimly discern through the morning mist, the Japanese fleet playing at war games off Los Angeles."

Butler explains that the excuse for the buildup of the US fleet and the war games is fear that "the great fleet of this supposed enemy will strike suddenly and annihilate 125,000,000 people."
 red_fir
Joined: 11/21/2011
Msg: 45
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So how did that Iraq thing work out for us?
Posted: 3/25/2012 4:15:50 AM
Well......
Unless your a subscriber to the 9/11 was an inside job theory....

What it HAS done is move the majority of the violence back overseas.
Proven conclusively that military intelligence is not only an oxymoron, but easily manipulated for the sake of the 1%.
Generated billions (with almost no trickle down effect), for defense contractors.
Reduced the perceived and de facto freedom in this country to lip service, The Patriot Act (and hundreds of regulations since then) have reduced us to property rather than persons, on a legal footing, contrary to the Constitution.
Firmly established the right to unlimited abusiveness for agencies like TSA, law enforcement, established a system to encourage national panic (threat levels green thru red).
Widened the already polarized lines between those who will abandon all for freedom of conscience, and those who will abandon all conscience, for the illusion of security.
And the current lesson that we're being taught is that security is for the 1%, collateral damage is for the masses.
 hoopsnhikes
Joined: 4/16/2010
Msg: 46
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So how did that Iraq thing work out for us?
Posted: 3/25/2012 3:49:44 PM

Of course, then the Bush administration went on to bigger and better things.........like giving away $800 billion with no strings attached on the bank bailout, orchestrated by Paulson...........utter piracy...

the IRONY of it is that these were Republicans who did all this


Yeah....you might want to check the breakdown of the House vote on that whole Bush bailout thing to see which side most of its support came from.
 Casper66
Joined: 3/2/2007
Msg: 47
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So how did that Iraq thing work out for us?
Posted: 3/25/2012 3:58:06 PM
Well it certainly made some companies and individuals alot of money, helped the Taliban recruitment effort, cost many brave American soldiers their lives and did little to stabilize the region in the end, certainly not the most shining moment in US history.
 adventurer001
Joined: 12/17/2007
Msg: 48
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So how did that Iraq thing work out for us?
Posted: 3/25/2012 8:18:40 PM
So what you're saying is that our government is capable of doing everything you cited but is incapable of creating the event that made it all possible? "post 46"
 red_fir
Joined: 11/21/2011
Msg: 49
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So how did that Iraq thing work out for us?
Posted: 3/25/2012 9:50:06 PM
Oh no I didn't imply any thing.
I said unless your a subscriber than.......

But if you are a subscriber than everything lies down in an arrow straight line,
simple cause and effect.
 Balsamica
Joined: 2/24/2012
Msg: 50
So how did that Iraq thing work out for us?
Posted: 3/26/2012 1:19:00 AM
slybandit, I felt there were some geopolitical goals related to oil supply and none of the stated reasons........doesn't mean that the patriotic strings weren't pulled, the country wasn't lied to or that it was nothing but a military misadventure.

Iraq had a broken down military since Desert Storm, starved for money, they weren't any kind of force to be reckoned with and I'd say a preemptive strike on an innocent (threat to the US non-existent) country was more than a warning. I don't see them as ever being a threat or having been a threat to SA.

Also, I don't see that it was a success. We can beat, batter, bully countries ...and of course that's not going to make us any safer, is it ... but can we hold on to them without going broke or taking the walk of shame on the way out? US soldiers get to patrol, get shot at by snipers, IEDs, etc. or countries go covert and step up terrorism in the US......

Whatever it was, I don't see how it made us any safer or richer.

It was criminal.
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