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 __kerri__
Joined: 3/20/2012
Msg: 51
no flip helmets in this store - tescosPage 3 of 4    (1, 2, 3, 4)
it takes about 5 seconds to take a crash helmet off,i'm surprised anyone is daft enough to even consider keeping it on when they go in a shop ,they have always been asked to be removed ,long before any burkha rubbish
 badge73
Joined: 1/17/2009
Msg: 52
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no flip helmets in this store - tescos
Posted: 3/23/2012 4:18:49 PM
Talking in the pub tonight and a few things were brought up.

What about those who dress up in the opposite sex?

Wearing a hard hat?

Or any one who dresses to deceive? Even to the point of wearing false beard etc

or just a case of some targets are easier then others ...

The case of the helmet being round before the burkha is a case of changing the rules of to not offend due to political correctness? In the name of culture or religion?

 Lusipher
Joined: 9/7/2010
Msg: 53
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no flip helmets in this store - tescos
Posted: 3/23/2012 4:37:30 PM
What about people who dress up in drag? Is that against the law or Tescos policy?

A hard hat, is just a hat... It would be like asking someone to remove a cap - although if someone was asked to take either off, what reason would they have to kick up a stink about it?

If people are in fancy dress then it should be fine (although I did see an example of a spiderman character being asked to remove his mask... Which he did without asking whether someone in a Burkha would be asked the same thing)

If they are wearing a disguise,.. Then the shop staff won't notice unless it's a really bad disguise.

What rules have been changed?

So far, you don't know the official policy regarding Burkha yet - or have you been advised of what it is by now, in which case I stand corrected... and even if they were allowed, are they not worn for cultural and religious reasons?

so I can understand why someone - wearing one for those reasons - might be offended if asked to remove them, but as pointed out if they don't want to remove them, then security shouldn't allow them in the shop (all depends on whether the store will make exceptions for cultural or religious reasons)

OP, I still think you're looking for a reason to get offended or be outraged.

A very reasonable request was made and you decided to make a fuss about it - from what you've said, it doesn't even seem like there was anyone wearing a Burkha in the shop... You just went looking for something to be uptight about

Why was it so important that you refuse such a simple request?
 Suzanne_999
Joined: 12/31/2011
Msg: 54
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no flip helmets in this store - tescos
Posted: 3/23/2012 8:37:42 PM
As a biker, this has been banding around for quite a few years now. Why should we take our helmets off when religious people arent required to take their Burkas off. Well in the past, many crimes have been commited with people wearing crash helmets such as petrol court robberies, bank robberies. cant say i know of any Tesco robberies right enough.

As we are constantly reminded of terrorism on our doorsteps, then anyone with their faces obscured, regardless of religious beliefs or not, should be asked to remove the obstruction.

I remove my helmet immediately that I come off my bike. I can understand why there is the "why us and not them" question, but personally I take it off so that the person who is going to serve me doesnt feel intimidated. There is no reason to have a helmet on in a store. in a petrol station, pay with your card at the pump if you dont want to remove it. If I go in to pay for my petrol i will automatically take my helmet off. Who is to say that the person working there hasn't already been attacked or robbed. most petrol stations have robberies happen and the workers bear the brunt of it so why would i want to put the worker through the anguish?
 _nx_
Joined: 12/19/2010
Msg: 55
no flip helmets in this store - tescos
Posted: 3/24/2012 12:33:13 AM
feck it... ive just been to tesco's... well i know its early in the morning and i had a bit of a rough night and havent had time to fix my hair and mascara and all that, but i still think it was fecking rude that they asked me to wear a bhurka

im going to write to them.
 oldndazed
Joined: 10/12/2009
Msg: 56
no flip helmets in this store - tescos
Posted: 3/24/2012 12:38:53 AM
Why would anyone want to walk around Tesco's with a crash helmet on! Just being Difficult.
A few years ago I walked into the local with my Daughter, she had her woolie hat on. She was mortified when asked to take her hat off, she said her hair was a mess.
I told her to take it off in the loo and fix her hair, then she got a nice complimant when she came out, life is as simple or difficult as you want to make it!
 CapsLockError
Joined: 3/11/2012
Msg: 57
no flip helmets in this store - tescos
Posted: 3/24/2012 1:17:27 AM
I don't think people get it.

when youre on a bike and you're only buying a paper so expect to be in the shop less than one minute, then taking a helmet off and putting it back on is a ballache

I think people are awkward just for the sake of it in here sometimes, again, it has to be a debate when there's no need for one
 _nx_
Joined: 12/19/2010
Msg: 58
no flip helmets in this store - tescos
Posted: 3/24/2012 1:22:18 AM
just because people dont agree doesnt mean they dont get it...

so its a ball ache to take off a helmet... yeah we get that... so what...?

a biker chooses to be a biker... so s/he chooses to wear a helmet... and chooses to go to tesco... and by default chooses to abide by their rules....

tough shyte if you dont like their rules... just go and buy your paper elsewhere...[quote


edit...


blah blah blah blah blah blah

my point being made exactly, some people need to learn to ignore and / or not reply to my posts

debate debate debate, ehy let's argue just for the sake of it, luckily, I don't do 'tough shyte' I'll get a papr from where I want and instead of goign on about it on the forums I'll stand there to their faces and argue the point with them till they back down - and they do


well shut the feck up then.... why on earth would people ignore/not reply...? if you want to be ignored then dont post... its not as though you are actually posting any thing relevant so why bother at all if you dont want to be acknowledged...?

i hate to break the news to you ant, but not everything is about you... this a debate site and not about arguing... you are the one arguing.. again! maybe you should learn to debate but unfortunately that would entail you actually having an opinion... which automatically reduces your options.. tough shyte eh...
 CapsLockError
Joined: 3/11/2012
Msg: 59
no flip helmets in this store - tescos
Posted: 3/24/2012 1:27:25 AM
blah blah blah blah blah blah

my point being made exactly, some people need to learn to ignore and / or not reply to my posts

debate debate debate, ehy let's argue just for the sake of it, luckily, I don't do 'tough shyte' I'll get a papr from where I want and instead of goign on about it on the forums I'll stand there to their faces and argue the point with them till they back down - and they do
 oldndazed
Joined: 10/12/2009
Msg: 60
no flip helmets in this store - tescos
Posted: 3/24/2012 1:29:30 AM
According to the op he was walking around the store. Why would you, I am debating the fact it must be very uncomfortable and the op in my opinion is being awkward.

I do get it! Does someone disagreeing with you and not having the same opinion make them awkward and clueless....oh dear.

'it has to be a debate when there's no need for one'

Well that would be why the op was begun

VVVLusipher always it so much better.....
 pauline2012
Joined: 11/28/2011
Msg: 61
no flip helmets in this store - tescos
Posted: 3/24/2012 1:32:41 AM
I agree, it's supposed to be a debate, that's the whole point of the forums.
 Lusipher
Joined: 9/7/2010
Msg: 62
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no flip helmets in this store - tescos
Posted: 3/24/2012 1:43:03 AM
@msg 58

Well if there are opposing points of view, then there's going to be a debate about it.... unless you're of the opinion that people should just shut up if they disagree with what someone else has said. Which would be odd, as it's not like you do that yourself...

Plus, it's not like that the so-called Ballache of taking off and then putting on a helmet was the reason for why the OP kicked up a stink... So maybe it's you, who doesn't get it - which would mean, by your reckoning, that you're the one arguing for the sake of it.

It's not even like they did just pop in to buy a paper...

***

Why do I get the feeling that this is going to veer completely off-topic in the next few pages?

I may disagree with a lot of what the OP says, but even he wouldn't try telling people that they shouldn't argue with him, if they don't agree with his opinions.... I think he actually enjoys the debate (I know I do, until it just becomes sniping or arguing with someone who cannot accept that people disagree with them...)

PS. I bet they don't always back down
 Pud78
Joined: 4/29/2010
Msg: 63
no flip helmets in this store - tescos
Posted: 3/24/2012 2:35:39 AM
A sikh doesn't need to wear a crash helmet and is exempt.
Tesco have applied this law in reverse to their policy as is their right to do so with the burkha.

The crash helmet can be worn, you can rob the place and make a quicker get away whilst obscuring your face the majority of the time. This is why they don't want them worn and is a perfectly reasonable request.

To request a person to go against their whole belief system is not a fair request for a Supermarket to make, though I do feel the Government need to step in like France and make it compulsary for the Burkha not to be worn if it obscures identification and then Tesco and others can enforce it.

Dressing in drag isn't going to aid a get away is it, fancy dress and the like is tolerated but they aren't likely to be planning to do the store over and should be fairly easy to identify.

It was a simple request and to me at least perfectly reasonable.
By finding inconsistencies in the ploicy your agreeing with it but just don't think it's fair, your right of course - you should still take your helmet off or leave but others should be given the same option.
 ControlledFolly
Joined: 2/17/2011
Msg: 64
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no flip helmets in this store - tescos
Posted: 3/24/2012 5:05:17 AM
@msg 60

There is a difference between debating and preaching.

A debate consists of an opinion backed up with some kind substance that allows for a counterpoint. If someone were to state an opinion that is their version of the truth in a way that they cannot possibly be wrong and all other opinions are invalid then your are going to get called on it.

I expect the reason others more often than not stop debating with you is likely they are bored with a one way debate and choose to ignore rather than conceed. A bit like a child attention seeking, just turn your back and leave them to it.

The OP at no point preached to anyone, he had an opinion used a comparison and acted upon it as it was his belief. While consensus is that his comparison is not valid, but he is entitles to his point of view and hasnt been flamed for it (too badly).

If this was a Sharia law forum, i would argue for a womans right to wear what she wants, knowing that i will at least get flamed to snot, called a troll and quite possibly have a fatwah (SP) placed on my head. That would not deter me, but deep down i know i have no place on that forum because Sharia Law is of no interest to me, and i know next to nothing about it, so my arguments would be very flawed as they are opinion and belief, not based on fact and experience.
 badge73
Joined: 1/17/2009
Msg: 65
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no flip helmets in this store - tescos
Posted: 3/24/2012 6:13:49 AM

a biker chooses to be a biker... so s/he chooses to wear a helmet... and chooses to go to tesco... and by default chooses to abide by their rules....


in the same way a woman decides to become a muslim and chooses to wear a burkha, whilst choosing to shop at tesco?


According to the op he was walking around the store. Why would you, I am debating the fact it must be very uncomfortable and the op in my opinion is being awkward.


actual fact i went straight to the wine section as wanted a bottle for after tea, probably only in there less then 2 mins.

well have indeed received a reply from tesco

Thank you for your email. My name is Alison and I am the Customer Service Manager responsible to dealing with your complaint.

I’m sorry to learn of your disappointment when you asked to remove your crash helmet to show your face in our Batchley Store.

Although infrequently, helmets can act as a disguise in crime which means we ask that they are removed so as to avoid the potential cause for alarm.

It may appear to be inconsistent that we do not ask someone wearing a veil to take it off, but we wish to show sensitivity to the faith and culture of the individual concerned. We recognise it can be an inconvenience to remove a crash helmet but believe it will not result in the distress which might arise for a lady obliged to remove her veil in public.

Therefore, we think our current approach is inclusive and strikes the right balance between respect for a different tradition and other considerations. Please be assured that we value your custom and hope that you will continue to feel welcome in our stores.

Thank you for taking the time to contact me regarding this matter and if I can be of any further assistance please do not hesitate to contact me.
Kind regards

Alison Jones
Tesco Customer Service

i will be replying most likely tomorrow and put forward a few points of the reply from tescos in my own true straight to the point style of cause ....
 Monkeysox
Joined: 3/11/2010
Msg: 66
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no flip helmets in this store - tescos
Posted: 3/24/2012 6:55:25 AM
It may appear to be inconsistent that we do not ask someone wearing a veil to take it off, but we wish to show sensitivity to the faith and culture of the individual concerned. We recognise it can be an inconvenience to remove a crash helmet but believe it will not result in the distress which might arise for a lady obliged to remove her veil in public.

That's what I said.
 Cinderfreakinella
Joined: 2/13/2011
Msg: 67
no flip helmets in this store - tescos
Posted: 3/24/2012 9:01:30 AM
I think that is a quite good reponse to your letter of complaint, the customer services manager understood your point of view, explained the reasons for the no-helmet policy and went onto explain the burkha policy.
But you say you are going to write again? What for I ask myself? Except to labour points already addressed. Was the response not clear enough?
 Grapplingman
Joined: 11/13/2010
Msg: 68
no flip helmets in this store - tescos
Posted: 3/24/2012 9:11:27 AM
I can't see what the problem is and it's a great many stores all across the UK which have similar policies regarding the wearing of crash helmets and also hoodies.

We can hardly blame the stores for the fact that a lot of major crimes are committed by thugs in crash helmets any more than we can blame the stores that so many kids in hodies are guilty of shoplifting and other thefts and rely on a hoodie not to be identified.

If it becomes common practise for women in burkas brandishing shotguns to hold up mail vans and groups of teenage burka wearers to roam the shopping precincts causing trouble and acting in an aggresive manner which might worry a lot of other shoppers then it may be time to ban those too.

It' s ok having principles but not at the expense of having a life!!!
 kkpiper
Joined: 10/4/2009
Msg: 69
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no flip helmets in this store - tescos
Posted: 3/24/2012 9:31:33 AM
I think it was an excellent reply from Tesco.
 RockyPP59
Joined: 3/22/2010
Msg: 70
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no flip helmets in this store - tescos
Posted: 3/24/2012 9:32:48 AM
Got to admit, Tesco's reply did seem quite reasonable.
 helen1981
Joined: 9/17/2007
Msg: 71
no flip helmets in this store - tescos
Posted: 3/24/2012 11:18:32 AM
Tesco's response seems fair I don't get what the problem is about removing a crash helmet. It just seems like another muslims bashing thread.
 Suzanne_999
Joined: 12/31/2011
Msg: 72
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no flip helmets in this store - tescos
Posted: 3/24/2012 12:51:09 PM
I dont see this as muslin bashing. nothing has been said derogatory about their faith. Only a comparison on head gear and why one is acceptable and one isnt, when both should be treated equally.

I went to Tesco petrol station today. I decided to pay for my petrol at the pump rather than go into the cashier. I kept my helmet on all the time and nothing came through the tanoy they have outside to tell me to remove it. Felt uncomfortable though, still having it on while trying to do a sale.
 kkpiper
Joined: 10/4/2009
Msg: 73
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no flip helmets in this store - tescos
Posted: 3/24/2012 1:03:58 PM
Would you have taken if off, if requested ? and would you have thought Tesco were out of order for asking you to do so ?
 Suzanne_999
Joined: 12/31/2011
Msg: 74
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no flip helmets in this store - tescos
Posted: 3/24/2012 1:46:44 PM
I would have taken it off immediately if it was requested. My previous post ( Message55) explains why. I dont think Tesco would have been out of order. I only kept it on to see if anything would have been said to me about keeping it on when I was outside. If I walked into the store to pay I wouldnt have thought twice about it. I would have removed my helmet without the need to be asked and I would not have been offended if i was asked.
 helen1981
Joined: 9/17/2007
Msg: 75
no flip helmets in this store - tescos
Posted: 3/24/2012 2:05:52 PM
The reason I think it's muslim bashing is there are plenty of cases of other little injustices for example:

dogs aren't allowed in a lot of places but guide dogs are
my sisters a nurse at her work place she isn't allowed to wear any rings but married people are
often hats aren't allowed in places but turbans are
women can take maternity leave initially to have baby and recover but then are also allowed enough time to bond with the baby. Childless women don't get time off

All of these no one would have a problem with as for example in the case of the rings there are very different reasons for wearing them. The op isn't discriminated against he is allowed to wear a burka to tesco any time he wants and the muslim lady would be asked to remove a crash helmet if she was wearing it. There are totally different reasons for wearing the two items so they should be treated differently
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