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 Kentish-Man
Joined: 3/7/2012
Msg: 51
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Equal rights... does this cover everything?Page 3 of 4    (1, 2, 3, 4)

helen1981
That's just not true men are more likely to be employed there are studies to show it. Discrimination against women helps no one. I went to a really interesting talk recently which was called "do men benefit from woman's oppression" and the answer was a resounding no. Part of your custody problems are because of it. The mother's role is seen as more important than the father's which to begin with it obviously is men can't give birth or breast feed but after that as much time should be given for the father to bond as much as the mother. We are living in a society where women are seen as the carer men as the provider. This means women are much more likely to get custody of children, rang in an emergency if they have split.

As I said...women are all for equality unless it benefits them ;) Don't see many women campaigning to end the near-automatic custody of children going to the mother, do you? Whereas men have to dress as Batman and scale public buildings to bring attention to their plight and have it still ignored.
 CharityTrue
Joined: 11/15/2011
Msg: 52
Equal rights... does this cover everything?
Posted: 3/28/2012 5:43:23 AM

Your way of thinking seems to be based on traditional rolls where the women is subservient and the guy is the bread winner.
These are rolls that are conditioned into you and are argued for by conditioned people with any influence they feel backs up their viewpoint.
I like to think that my reasoning regarding what relationship rolls are all about is not based on what I was told they should be, or witnessed as a child, but based on learning through life lessons and experience.


I'm sorry, Colin, but your assumptions are completely incorrect.
My way of thinking, is based on my life experience of what actually, practically works in male/female roles relationships and with regard to creating a calm, happy family environment within which to bring up children.
They are the opposite of what I was told they should be, what I witnessed as a child, and most certainly based on life lessons and experience...
My experience, my life, my own mind, reasoning and feelings have taught me to reject my conditioning and embrace what was pitched to me as "wrong"...

I am the opposite of a conditioned person in regards to traditional gender roles.

"...traditional rolls where the women is subservient and the guy is the bread winner...."

If I may, I'd like to clarify this... When viewed through a negative lens, the woman's behaviour is judged negatively as subservient, craven, bullied... If you can look at the relationship through a less prejudiced, clean, positive lens, you see cooperation on both partners' parts. If the man (or woman) assumes responsibility for the breadwinning, external role than the other partner concentrates on the domestic internal relationship role... They are of EQUAL importance... looking after children, feeding everyone healthy fresh food, running the house in an orderly way, keeping everyone on schedule is massively challenging job... I cannot understand why it is soooo devalued by women in particular... When working together both partners are taking responsibility to make their own and their kids' lives better. and in an emotionally healthy relationship are grateful for each other's contributions which ideally should be given freely... all things being equal, I think the main breadwinner is far more "enslaved" by the needs of his family in this instance... He will generally go to work, provide for his family no matter what, day in and out, year after year, for very little in return... Some partner's won't even make them a cup of tea...

There are horrible men and women, I am talking about making a good relationship with 2 emotionally healthy people, not abusers or crazy people of which both sexes have plenty. People need to relax and stop worrying about what their "losing"in a partnership and try to think about giving for mutual gain...
That way a relationship might have some chance of working...
 Wafta
Joined: 9/9/2008
Msg: 53
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Equal rights... does this cover everything?
Posted: 3/28/2012 8:30:41 AM
I agree Charity, I think if more relationships/families had these, what are now deemed old fashioned, roles, then the family unit would function much better and our children would have much better role models to aspire to.

This particularly is something I am 100% in agreement of....

looking after children, feeding everyone healthy fresh food, running the house in an orderly way, keeping everyone on schedule is massively challenging job... I cannot understand why it is soooo devalued by women in particular..

I believe I tried to say this earlier and was critisized for it by a fellow female poster. It appears there is no pride in being a "homemaker" and mother anymore...shame!
 CharityTrue
Joined: 11/15/2011
Msg: 54
Equal rights... does this cover everything?
Posted: 3/28/2012 1:15:03 PM
I saw that...
It doesn't make me cross so much as it truly exposes those women's attitudes towards the women who do these things...

The women who look down on housewives, homemakers and F-T mothers...
They're so busy fighting supposed injustice, trying to gain "equality" that they ignore their own biology, reality and ultimately their own selves...
It's more insidious, the most odious form of misogyny; a peculiar form of self-hatred that is prevalent amongst those who think themselves the most enlightened...

They deny the very thing that defines them; they devalue their motherhood and consequently, their children... It's so sad... Particularly for the children...
I love my kids, my life did not begin and end with them, but they are desperately important and fulfilling... some women are ashamed to admit that, preferring to place more value on paid work outside the home, than spending time raising their own children... I will never get that...

You are only irreplaceable to your children; everyone else can replace you...

Were it not for their destructiveness, they would be more pitied than blamed for buying into an ideology that claims to support women, but in reality is most concerned with competing with, and being seen as "equal" to a man...
An ultimately futile exercise which devalues both...
An apple can never be an orange, yet both are sweet and healthy...
One is alkaline, one is acidic, Trying to make one like the other renders both inedible and destroys the goodness...
I cannot think of a better analogy of m/f relationships today...
The US and the UK are the laughingstock of the world because men and women cannot get along, how the US goes, eventually goes the UK sadly...
They treat their own men; fathers, sons, brothers, neighbours, workmates as the enemy, with utter contempt; they cause bitterness and strife everywhere they go and are very unhappy people...
Why would a woman try to be equal to a man, she is different...
Similarly, a man who tried to be equal to a woman appears mentally deranged...
It makes no sense...
And I read it all over this forum.... Just sad...
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 55
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Equal rights... does this cover everything?
Posted: 3/28/2012 1:41:02 PM

The US and the UK are the laughingstock of the world because men and women cannot get along, how the US goes, eventually goes the UK sadly...

I would ask for a citation to back up that ridiculous and somewhat melodramatic/hysterical assertion, but I know it would be a waste of time.

My ex was off full-time work for nearly ten years, but went back and worked nights at the weekends, to keep her 'hand in', and her job open, when the first was just 6 months old. Because she wanted to. So I worked sometimes 80 hours a week, and then came home and looked after the kids from friday night 'til she got up on sunday afternoons, (and that was 24 hours/day child care.) Then I'd go to work on monday, knackered.

They're so busy fighting supposed injustice, trying to gain "equality" that they ignore their own biology, reality and ultimately their own selves...
It's more insidious, the most odious form of misogyny; a peculiar form of self-hatred that is prevalent amongst those who think themselves the most enlightened...

There was no "denial" of biology involved, no misogyny, and no "self-hatred".
You seem to have very inflexible ideas of how it "should be". And are very judgmental and disparaging of anyone who disagrees.
What's "right" for you, may not be right for others.
We are all individuals, all having different 'needs', and 'wants', and capabilities.
Regardless of gender.
 Lusipher
Joined: 9/7/2010
Msg: 56
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Equal rights... does this cover everything?
Posted: 3/28/2012 2:06:33 PM
If we're talking about equality, shouldn't we really be talking about having roughly the same choices and paths open to us.

So a woman should have the opportunity to go for pretty much any job... doesn't mean she'll get it, or that she should be given it to suit some quota. In the same vein, they should also be able to make the choice about whether they go on work, or stay at home and raise the kids, look after the home, etc.

***

If you have a job, then two people doing the same job should get the same kind of money... If a company sees one of those people as more valuable than the other, then does it not make sense that they would get paid more?

That's not a matter of inequality. Just common sense.
 Dr__Matt
Joined: 2/19/2012
Msg: 57
Equal rights... does this cover everything?
Posted: 3/28/2012 2:14:26 PM

The police force do a physical i expect the fire service do as well.


Yes and I've done the physical for the police and it's a complete and utter joke, a seven year old child could probably pass it. When I did that physical in Jan 2006 I asked why it was so easy and the instructor raised his eyebrows and just said "equal opportunities". You can draw your own conclusions from this.
 mazeyh
Joined: 7/7/2009
Msg: 58
Equal rights... does this cover everything?
Posted: 3/28/2012 2:19:14 PM
Charity you do yourself no favours thinking it appropriate to question my love and affinity for my son.It's a given and not up for discussion and never was .Having in an earlier message written about women being insulted for being " contented at home with domestic duties" you would do well to think about your own words.I mistakenly believed that women past the baby stage( when emotions seem to run amok on this subject) would be able to have a reasonable discussion without such contemptible bile.But really it says everything one needs to know about you.You should be ashamed of yourself missus.


Some points for the hard of understanding.

1.Taking care of children does not mean one also has to enjoy domestic chores.Are we supposed to drop a sprog and then along with that comes a newfound rush of joy for housework and the tasks of running a household.? What simpleton planet does that idea emanate from?Women on the whole have never been any keener on housework than men. Anyone who believes women dance for joy at the thought of it needs to think again.Running a household is just something that has to be done.It has it's challenges but most of us just get on with it without making a song and dance about being a 'homemaker'.


2. The language I used to describe the early years with a baby was deliberate " I would rather have been doing ANYTHING else other than mother and baby groups, nct coffee mornings and the rest of the tedious merrygoround of baby talk, wasted time and pointless socializing.It was not for one minute enjoyable or easy.It was relentlessly boring and soul destroying. " .Read them Charity.They are not talking about the baby , they refer to the life around it.And if you found that life and domestic chores immensely satisfying for the soul , intellect and emotions I will find you another half a dozen women who felt like pulling their hair out. Your words unfortunately, lambasting women and 'feeling sorry for them and their baby' is the dishonest attitude that makes life difficult for many women.


3.Our children are our priority.All of us want what's best for them.That's another given for most of us and shouldn't really need pointing out in another song and dance display . I feel immensely lucky to have a son.He is an absolute delight and the centre of my Universe.Having him has also taught me a lot and given me insight into a world I knew little about.It has also given me a keen understanding of how difficult it can be for boys and young men to make their way in the world. However since when has wanting the best for your own precluded wanting the best for other people's children too ?What sort of a numbskull world would we live in if our concerns went no wider than our own offspring?

For the record I do believe that it is best for parents to be at home with young children and that's why I had mine at home above and beyond what most parents( probably including yourself) do. I don't believe it has to be the mother full time but many women want that and that's absolutely fine.Though I do wonder why you feel it right to deny men their nurturing side and desire to share in the care of their children.

I imagine everyone here on this board now understands how you love your children much more than all the rest of us self hating ashamed mothers.That's truly wonderful.Thankyou for sharing.


 FoxyMoron74
Joined: 9/4/2011
Msg: 59
Equal rights... does this cover everything?
Posted: 3/28/2012 2:27:33 PM
There is nothing wrong with wanting equality.
I DO WANT to be paid the same as my male counterparts. I do want to have the same rights to promotions. Having the door held open for a person isn't sexist, its called manners. I hold the doors open for others and if someone hasn't manners then they will let the door slam in someone elses face! If i am driving, before getting in the car I open the doors for the passengers. Nowt wrong with that, its called manners again.
I have always worked, i have had less time off in the last 16 years of working as a single parent than one of the young female employees that works on my floor in the last year..... She has no children..
One of the men on my floor who is a good 15 years older than me has had more time off than i have had in 5 years in the last few months.
A person who i used to work for said, if given the choice, he would employ single parents over any other group because in his experience they actually needed to work to bring money in and had kids to provide for so they actually DID turn up for work every day, didnt call in sick with a hangover and the part time single parents did more work in their 4 0r 5 hours a day than some of the other people did in their 8 hour day.
I never take time off sick, I always co-ordinate my doctors appointments in my own time and appreciate having a decent job. Of course im not saying that male, non-single parents aren't as conciencious at all. Why shouldn't a man who has a child with an ex partner take time off if the child is unwell rather than it automatically being the mother?
There is nothing wrong with being a stay at home parent if you can afford it. Nothing at all. I managed, with help from my family, to get the best of both worlds. I worked in a pub whilst my son was tiny, in shops at weekends when he was a bit older then in an office when he was older still. If you can't afford it and pop kid after kid out to avoid ever going back to work then yeah i have a problem with that.
I work hard and deserve the same benefits and rights as my co-workers.
 *rem*
Joined: 11/5/2008
Msg: 60
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Equal rights... does this cover everything?
Posted: 3/28/2012 3:08:22 PM
So what aren't you getting?
 FoxyMoron74
Joined: 9/4/2011
Msg: 61
Equal rights... does this cover everything?
Posted: 3/28/2012 3:18:22 PM
^^
I'm saying i have the right *rem*. There seems to be a few people on here, both male and female, that are saying that women don't deserve the same rights as a man.
Im saying that I do have the right, i work as hard as the men in my office. I'm fortunate enough not to have to fight for the rights that a person deserves in my work place. Women do as well as the men in my company, we have female directors in virtually every department throughout.
 punkadiddle
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 62
Equal rights... does this cover everything?
Posted: 3/28/2012 3:33:17 PM
The thread began as the usual women hatred by men - to the stay at home -v- working mothers women hatred by women. How did that happen? No post on this thread has maligned the role of the f/t mums - infact even the resident misogynists prefer that role.

In nearly 13 years of being full time mum I have never encountered another woman looking down upon me for choosing that role……but then again I would consider it a waste of time looking for something that I don’t believe exists to any significant extent.

Some men want women to stay at home because they have old fashioned ideas - tough. Some men because they feel threatened by women in the workplace - tough. Some women feel threatened by mums returning to work because they feel those women are rejecting the traditional roles as inferior and thereby implying f/t mums are inferior. However that inferiority complex is imposed upon themselves by themselves.

From what little (very little) knowledge I have 3rd wave feminism is the backlash to the 2nd wave of feminism. That there is a choice and that an enlightened woman can run her own business, wear dungarees complete with hairy legs and dms or wear Laura Ashley while baking fairy cakes. There is no right or wrong role so really there is no need to feel threatened by women who choose another role.

Being a stay at home mum can be both unbelievably stressful and mind-numbing (yes I recall discussing laundry detergent with glazed eyes during playgroup sessions) yet without doubt there can be very few jobs with such satisfaction. It’s not all sweetness and light(from that transition stage of labour, which can be a tad uncomfortable) onwards. Those that can and choose to stay at home are very lucky as finger painting and play dough moulding don’t put shoes on kids’ feet.

*****

To return to the topic - why would someone choose to have as a partner a woman who stands at a door waiting for someone to open it for them or has expectations of “designer perfumes” (whatever they are) just by virtue of being born female - surely if you are that male partner then you are culpable to a certain extent by pandering to those demands.
 *rem*
Joined: 11/5/2008
Msg: 63
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Equal rights... does this cover everything?
Posted: 3/28/2012 4:52:59 PM

'm saying i have the right *rem*. There seems to be a few people on here, both male and female, that are saying that women don't deserve the same rights as a man.
Im saying that I do have the right, i work as hard as the men in my office. I'm fortunate enough not to have to fight for the rights that a person deserves in my work place. Women do as well as the men in my company, we have female directors in virtually every department throughout.


Maybe i missed it but i haven't read it like that. Having kids is just the way it is. Thats God's work (but then he is a man) but you won't be fired from your job for it. Being a manager of one department doesn't make you equal to the manager of another department. If the roles and requirements of the job are the same i don't see how anyone could be paid less than the other barring incremental bonuses

Some men want women to stay at home because they have old fashioned ideas - tough. Some men because they feel threatened by women in the workplace - tough. Some women feel threatened by mums returning to work because they feel those women are rejecting the traditional roles as inferior and thereby implying f/t mums are inferior. However that inferiority complex is imposed upon themselves by themselves.... .... There is no right or wrong role so really there is no need to feel threatened by women who choose another role.

The op said:
"I guess these views stem from the stereotypical (and somewhat, old fashioned) view of women who stay at home and look after the house while the man goes out to work. But surely, if women want to progress in modern society beyond the scope of this view and 'have it all'. They need to ditch this old fashioned view and take on a new attitude?"

I don't see the conflict here or anyone who is in favour of restricting a womans oportunities, unless you're saying women have every right to expect lavish gifts as well as discrimination in their favour?
 oldndazed
Joined: 10/12/2009
Msg: 64
Equal rights... does this cover everything?
Posted: 3/28/2012 5:22:51 PM
Message 45
'I can understand this... I think it has something to do with the nature of what just happens... women have traditionally for millennia been in charge of the home...
That has been their main sphere of influence, having babies, caring for them, preparing food, tending the sick, the elderly... these things have been "women's work"... All the equality and advances of the last 40yrs don't necessarily affect what folks actually do, think and expect... and if something happened to my own mum, it would be my sister who looked after her because they live near each other and are closer... My brother, even if he lived nearby has a F-T job and it would be his wife that would be likely to be helping my sister look after my mum... It's just the way it is...'

Just the way it is does not cut the mustard
What would happen to your mum if something happened to your sister, and then your brothers wife was unable to help, you seem to have it all worked out......but you don't you have absolutly NONE of the answers.

You do seem to be devoid of any of the very normal empathy towards a woman dealing with normal hormonal changes she has to cope with after the birth of her Child. To try to lay a guilt trip on a woman who has given birth, then faces the 'maybe' not 'normal' wish to associate themselves with the trappings of 'coffee mornings' but wishing to focus on their child who didn't ask to be here.


Mayeyh said
'When I chose to stay at home to look after my son that was my role- caring for my son, not domestic slave. Most of the time I chose to put dinner on the table and it probably would have been a pretty poor show if I hadn't at least thought about it but there were no other assumptions made about what I should or shouldn't do in the house. I categorically DIDN'T give up my job to do housework and thankfully that was never the role expected of me.'

and you say,
'Somebody has to do it... I never viewed taking care of my children and feeding my family as slavery...'

Yes somebody CLEARLY has to do it, but it won't be you, you have nominated your sister and sister in law. 'sorted'
 CharityTrue
Joined: 11/15/2011
Msg: 65
Equal rights... does this cover everything?
Posted: 3/28/2012 5:43:33 PM
msg 36
Now I did say society and culture needs to change so I sound like a hypocrite, but can society and culture really beat instinct? It's instinct that women look after children and men provide. It has always been like that until the last 40 years or so, and even then, it's still common. We are asking a lot to change 200,000 years of being male and female human beings in just a few decades.


msg 56
If we're talking about equality, shouldn't we really be talking about having roughly the same choices and paths open to us.
So a woman should have the opportunity to go for pretty much any job... doesn't mean she'll get it, or that she should be given it to suit some quota. In the same vein, they should also be able to make the choice about whether they go on work, or stay at home and raise the kids, look after the home, etc.
If you have a job, then two people doing the same job should get the same kind of money... If a company sees one of those people as more valuable than the other, then does it not make sense that they would get paid more?
That's not a matter of inequality. Just common sense.



When I chose to stay at home to look after my son that was my role- caring for my son, not domestic slave. Most of the time I chose to put dinner on the table and it probably would have been a pretty poor show if I hadn't at least thought about it but there were no other assumptions made about what I should or shouldn't do in the house. I categorically DIDN'T give up my job to do housework and thankfully that was never the role expected of me.

Who the hell else was supposed to cook and clean the house? Did you have a full time cook & maid? If my husband or wife was home all day with the baby, and i was out working, there would be no question that I expected him/her to cook and clean the house. I think I must live on a different planet than you. You wanted to look after your son, but no-one expected you to cook or clean, you did it only when you felt like it because you felt obligated or wanted to...
Okay, now to me, that's the definition of a princess...


"Charity you do yourself no favours thinking it appropriate to question my love and affinity for my son"

I don't question that you love your son... we all love our kids... What I noted was the negative language used to describe your feelings towards the baby stage of your son...
the whole thing reeks of self-importance, like you are somehow better than the other women who talk about baby food or detergent. I am glad you found women who were on your level in the end. Why did you waste your time doing things you found so uncomfortable? It's sad because when you read what you wrote it sounds like you were not happy being the mother of a baby and I feel that's sad for you and him....
Nevertheless, your attitude is a common one. I hear women talk openly and plainly about with contempt about motherhood and all that it entails... So often with this supercilious tone that I find nauseating. If you are not intellectually stimulated by your local coffee mornings go somewhere else FFS... go to a museum or library or meet with your friends.


1.Taking care of children does not mean one also has to enjoy domestic chores.Are we supposed to drop a sprog and then along with that comes a newfound rush of joy for housework and the tasks of running a household.? What simpleton planet does that idea emanate from?Women on the whole have never been any keener on housework than men. Anyone who believes women dance for joy at the thought of it needs to think again. Running a household is just something that has to be done.It has it's challenges but most of us just get on with it without making a song and dance about being a 'homemaker'.

It's hardly cleaning out the Augean stables either, but most women I know look at it with rather less distaste.... What happened to being happy to be taking care of your family, as opposed to just enduring it...


2. The language I used to describe the early years with a baby was deliberate " I would rather have been doing ANYTHING else other than mother and baby groups, nct coffee mornings and the rest of the tedious merrygoround of baby talk, wasted time and pointless socializing.It was not for one minute enjoyable or easy.It was relentlessly boring and soul destroying. " .Read them Charity.They are not talking about the baby , they refer to the life around it.And if you found that life and domestic chores immensely satisfying for the soul , intellect and emotions I will find you another half a dozen women who felt like pulling their hair out. Your words unfortunately, lambasting women and 'feeling sorry for them and their baby' is the dishonest attitude that makes life difficult for many women.

Yeah, I read it, and no I don't make any woman's life difficult, many women make life difficult for themselves. You have only yourself to blame if you weren't happy doing stuff like that...You chose to do those things then moan about it...why not just do things you can enjoy with baby and stop complaining... ..


Though I do wonder why you feel it right to deny men their nurturing side and desire to share in the care of their children.

I've never said anything even remotely resembling that, as you know. Please don't make stuff up.


I imagine everyone here on this board now understands how you love your children much more than all the rest of us self hating ashamed mothers.That's truly wonderful.Thankyou for sharing.

Um, my post wasn't actually directed at you... Though you found reason to respond personally perhaps it resonated, I don't know. Yes, I love my children and no, I don't believe I love mine more than you or anyone else... I do say again that it's okay for women (or men) to choose to stay home if their partners are in a position to allow them to do so. Everyone is allowed choice, although the way many women negate that choice through their words and attitudes is worthy of discussion in my opinion.
Some women do make that choice and they shouldn't be castigated or ridiculed for it...And because one woman says she does it, it doesn't mean she is saying ALL women should do what she's doing. But it is time for women to take pride again in being good homemakers. Taking pride in taking care of their families and partners... It IS a good thing...
And finally, women in the US/UK are among the freest, richest women in the world. Yet they seem to complain the most, and are most dissatisfied with their lives and the men in them. Poor women from the third world have less money food, are cruelly truly OPPRESSED, but that word seems to trip so easily off the tongue of american and UK women, it's unseemly.... I think some perspective is in order....
Just sayin'...
 oldndazed
Joined: 10/12/2009
Msg: 66
Equal rights... does this cover everything?
Posted: 3/28/2012 6:02:37 PM
'Poor women from the third world have less money food, are cruelly truly OPPRESSED, but that word seems to trip so easily off the tongue of american and UK women, it's unseemly.... I think some perspective is in order....'

Ha ha that is because they don't have the freedom we have to earn our own living and fend for our selves. They are trapped as we used to be.



You think my post is Convoluted, could you explain why ? VVV?

 CharityTrue
Joined: 11/15/2011
Msg: 67
Equal rights... does this cover everything?
Posted: 3/28/2012 6:11:43 PM
oldanddazed, your post is/seems somewhat convoluted...
I have no empathy? Hormonal changes is it? Oh, post-partum depression?
I have no idea where you're going with this...


and you say,
'Somebody has to do it... I never viewed taking care of my children and feeding my family as slavery...'
Yes somebody CLEARLY has to do it, but it won't be you, you have nominated your sister and sister in law. 'sorted'


It was in fact, a hypothetical situation... Most likely it will be my sister as my brother and I both live nearly 4,000 miles away from her and my sister lives about an hour away from her... if I lived nearby, Iwould do whatever was needed. if my brother lived nearby, his wife would probably do whatever was needed because he's a cop and works shifts....
 CharityTrue
Joined: 11/15/2011
Msg: 68
Equal rights... does this cover everything?
Posted: 3/28/2012 6:17:51 PM

Ha ha that is because they don't have the freedom we have to earn our own living and fend for our selves. They are trapped as we used to be.


So you would agree, some progress has been made?
Can we all be friends now?
 oldndazed
Joined: 10/12/2009
Msg: 69
Equal rights... does this cover everything?
Posted: 3/28/2012 6:31:33 PM
No because you seem to have a downer on women who make decisions about what they are prepard to accept from their men. You are moving very quickly backwards, I prefered to move on from the very sensible way my life was with a husband and 3 Children.
You devote yourself to that.......when you no longer have to buy into it....your children are grown, your life is your own again.
If you choose to be subserviant to men for no other reason than that is what does it for you, I applaud you.
Allow other women to make their own choices without trying to brow beat and impose your views in a bullying way!
 helen1981
Joined: 9/17/2007
Msg: 70
Equal rights... does this cover everything?
Posted: 3/29/2012 12:42:54 AM
What seems to be the problem in tis thread is people who want to the man to go out to work and the woman to take the role as a mother see that as natural biology and that's rubbish. Most of the differences between men and women are social conditioning. No one within this thread has said that a woman can't be the homemaker. Of course if one person is at home then they will take on the cooking and cleaning as well.
The issue as I see it is even when both parties work full time it is still the woman who is doing most of the housework, childcare and looking after an elderly relative.

Also just because someone is more oppressed elsewhere doesn't mean you should stop fighting oppression if we all had that attitude women would have never of got the vote. I don't know why people are trying to deny that discrimination still exists when there is discrimination when it comes to equal pay, with ideas about women's sexuality (i.e a woman is partly to blame if she gets raped, men can't help themselves, a woman is a slag if she has one night stands, a man is a player etc), issues in custody. Men do not benefit from women's oppression so i don't believe in the kind of feminism that sees men as the problem.

We have come quite far in the last 100 years but in order to completely get rid of oppression it is attitudes that have to be changed.
 day-trader
Joined: 2/22/2012
Msg: 71
Equal rights... does this cover everything?
Posted: 3/29/2012 1:50:31 AM
Come on you guys don't really subscribe to all this equality rubbish? Men who are "champions of fairness and equality" are considered doormats by most women. Be real men.

Women need to be looked after and put in there place, that's our role in life, I don't mean you should hit them or anything but you should definitely be the one taking the lead.
 mazeyh
Joined: 7/7/2009
Msg: 72
Equal rights... does this cover everything?
Posted: 3/29/2012 2:28:48 AM

Please don't make stuff up.






my post wasn't actually directed at you


er ok if you insist.I'll presume princess,reeking of self importance, contempt about motherhood, supercilious weren't directed at me either and we can all be friends.

There is no point in trying to have a conversation with you.You make other's words say what YOU want them to say, you spiel out a load of chuffing nonsense that is projecting opinions on people who never expressed views anything like the ones you seem to believe you are arguing against. You like to pontificate and turn the air purple but when you get down to it much of what is said is meaningless.

It's all quite simple really.Nothing sad and no pity needed from daft internet birds with faintly rancid manners.

Have a baby- love the baby.Have a baby- think the baby stage and all it entails really isn't 'all that'.Nevertheless - love the baby.

Enjoy household crap- no.Get on with it - yes- as long as there is noone laying down the law about what has to be done by the time he walks through the door.Make a song and dance about it and label yourself ' homemaker' ....why would I? Mum and partner was good enough .It's good enough for many women.We don't need to make it something out of the ordinary , cos it's not.

by the way all that stuff about 'feeding and caring for your loved ones' doesn't come into it.That's just emotive twaddle.We , all of us men and women do it.No special mention needed.Whadddya want? A bleeding medal?


Of course this post is pointless too but I've never let that stop me.

@helen you're probably beating your head against a brick wall.
 try1more
Joined: 12/16/2007
Msg: 73
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History
Equal rights... does this cover everything?
Posted: 3/29/2012 5:22:24 AM
since mother and baby groups have been mentioned i have a question for you.
consider i meet a partner we have a baby she dies.
would i be welcomed at a mother n baby group?
 punkadiddle
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 74
Equal rights... does this cover everything?
Posted: 3/29/2012 5:27:12 AM
^^^^^^

I remember one playgroup where the dad came (as the mum worked). As the token male all the women were fawning over him (apart from me as I knew him already - he was dishy though) and he loved the attention. So definitely welcome.
 mazeyh
Joined: 7/7/2009
Msg: 75
Equal rights... does this cover everything?
Posted: 3/29/2012 5:36:20 AM
definitely welcome.As punkadiddle says you will be feted and treated as something special.You will receieve lots of comments about how 'good' you are .As if men aren't altogether capable of this stuff.
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