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 CapsLockError
Joined: 3/11/2012
Msg: 26
Who are the poor ?Page 2 of 2    (1, 2)
at the end of the day, anyone who has the internet and a phone line in their house can be that poor can they

In my day we used to get up at 4am and lick the road clean
 Marquis_de_Michaelmas
Joined: 10/23/2008
Msg: 27
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Who are the poor ?
Posted: 3/29/2012 6:58:37 AM
This is what our government considers poor!

UK poverty line for a range of households, 2009/10
http://www.cpag.org.uk/povertyfacts/index.htm

UK poverty line for a range of households, 2009/10 Household type
Poverty line: Household income, £ a week
Single person, no children
£124
Couple with no children
£214
Lone parent with two children (aged 5 and 14)
£256
Couple with two children (aged 5 and 14)
£346
 gemini_lady_uk
Joined: 7/16/2008
Msg: 28
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Who are the poor ?
Posted: 3/29/2012 7:30:58 AM
Michaelmas - the figures you gave, do you know if they include paying rent/council tax or are these figures only for food, utilities, clothing etc

My last job I took home £900 pcm which was apparently classed as 'below the poverty line'
Never quite understood that as I lived comfortably although didn't go out a lot and didn't take holidays, have never been into designer anything and don't buy things I can't afford. Fair enough, I wasn't paying London rents either.

I know a guy who is on £45 an HOUR and struggles, gets in debt because he can't manage money - takes his 'treats' before he thinks about paying bills, never plans ahead and then when something goes wrong with his car etc he is stuffed. I used to end up lending him money.... Not anymore I might add.

Who would be classed as being poor, me with no debt or him with thousands of £'s debt.....
 celladore
Joined: 11/11/2011
Msg: 29
Who are the poor ?
Posted: 3/29/2012 7:41:36 AM
Giddens 'Sociology' has a great section on what poor is, there are people in the uk who can not afford 3 meals a day, a fridge, means of transport, these people will be working people but there income does not meet the cost of living, as inflation rises at 6% and income rises at 2% these people are facing more worries, higher costs and live in dergading curcumstanses. They cant afford a holiday, they can't afford to take their children out on their birthdays as well as any other day, or sometimes like myself, they dont have children, they work in care and get payed minimum wage. last year i was earing 10,000 a year, rent was 4,000 for the year, leaving 6,000 pounds to feed my cat, get transport to work, pay gas and electric bills, council tax, last year i had many days that i couldnt eat because my budget wouldnt cover it. when i asked for help from local authority they wouldnt because i had a full time job, regardless of how low the income was. In britain we also have alot of homeless people who live comarible lives to the third world.
 helen1981
Joined: 9/17/2007
Msg: 30
Who are the poor ?
Posted: 3/29/2012 8:23:37 AM
lick the road clean you were lucky I had to get up in the morning at ten o'clock at night, half an hour before I went to bed, work twenty-nine hours a day down mill, and pay mill owner for permission to come to work, and when we got home, our Dad would kill us, and dance about on our graves singing "Hallelujah."
 OneOnOwn
Joined: 1/1/2012
Msg: 31
Who are the poor ?
Posted: 3/29/2012 8:37:44 AM
Single people like my friend who is 58, never married, no kids get the raw deal. Do not get the tax allowances, have no partner who would pull their weight if needs be , does get a reduction in council tax for one but others can have no end of workers in the same house for full rate, is entitled to virtually no benefits if things go wrong .
His taxes however pay for education of others kids, his national insurance pays for others healthcare. Singles with no kids really do get a raw deal.
 Marquis_de_Michaelmas
Joined: 10/23/2008
Msg: 32
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Who are the poor ?
Posted: 3/29/2012 8:40:09 AM
Ah how much is it all down to percentages though and the widening income divide, especially when you take inconsideration of the disposable income available.

If one were to get a income rise of 10%

10% of nothing is still NOTHING

10% of a little is A LITTLE

10% of an EXTREMELY OBSCENE amount is OBSCENE

It's far better to have a £100 year to everyone rather than do percentages.

Recently announced was the increase in benefits and pensions by however many percent, but those actually working on minimum wages were frozen or capped well below those rates.

We have public outcry about those who were going to lose out on Child benefits that were earning over £40k, that those whose combined earnings could be £80k might still keep them and that wasn't fair.

Excuse me! There was me thinking that the average salary was only £25 or so - do either of these £40k or £80k combined really require the redistribution of my hard earned and payed tax money to supplement them?

Yes their are Poor in this country. They may not be poor compared with other countries, but they are poor here compared like for like with people here and that is what matters to us!

Sadly it seems currently policy is to keep them in poverty and let the rich get richer!

Money doesn't make you happier; I've been poor and miserable, as well as rich and miserable: but I know which I much prefer!
 helen1981
Joined: 9/17/2007
Msg: 33
Who are the poor ?
Posted: 3/29/2012 8:50:14 AM

Single people like my friend who is 58, never married, no kids get the raw deal. Do not get the tax allowances, have no partner who would pull their weight if needs be , does get a reduction in council tax for one but others can have no end of workers in the same house for full rate, is entitled to virtually no benefits if things go wrong .
His taxes however pay for education of others kids, his national insurance pays for others healthcare. Singles with no kids really do get a raw deal.


But if no one had children then when the single person retires who would be the doctors, nurses, emptying the bins etc etc everyone would have to work forever if there were no more children. His taxes go to educate future doctors, nurses etc. It will be other people's children that will be looking after him in his old age.
Bringing up children is expensive. I really don't see on that logic how you can say single childless people get a raw deal.
 lulu1402
Joined: 3/24/2007
Msg: 34
Who are the poor ?
Posted: 3/29/2012 10:47:46 AM
some one said that money does not make you happier ,that they had been poor and miserable and riches and miserable ...give me the rich and miserable any day at least you can afford to cheer yourself up with treats ...poor and miserable do not have that choice
 OldTomBombadil
Joined: 1/22/2010
Msg: 35
Who are the poor ?
Posted: 3/29/2012 4:40:47 PM
When considering the poor, it's worth remembering: You know the payday lenders advertising on tv, that you scoff at the idea that anyone would be stupid enough to use them? Well EVERYONE knows how stupid an idea they are. These companies stay in business because some people are actually that desperate- the consequences of failing to pay those credit card bills is worse than failing to pay the payday loan.

Those are poor people. And every month that goes by is just about being able to afford to live, without a penny left at the end of each month to save towards a better future. When something like inflation and a fall in realtime earnings hits, it leaves no money to spare- and a literal tightening of the belt as food is the only expense left to cut down on.

Also, there's poor and then there's poverty. The best definition of poverty, in my view, seems to be people per bed. When screaming, deficating baby shares the same bedroom as parents and siblings alike. The stories in the media of huge dole-ite families living in mansions at taxpayers expense ignores the fact that they were placed there due to lack of alternative accomodation, and that there really aren't enough mansions to make up that shortfall.
 helen1981
Joined: 9/17/2007
Msg: 36
Who are the poor ?
Posted: 3/30/2012 3:50:50 AM

Also, there's poor and then there's poverty. The best definition of poverty, in my view, seems to be people per bed. When screaming, deficating baby shares the same bedroom as parents and siblings alike. The stories in the media of huge dole-ite families living in mansions at taxpayers expense ignores the fact that they were placed there due to lack of alternative accomodation, and that there really aren't enough mansions to make up that shortfall.


You are absolutely right when Thatcher sold of council houses in the 1980's they didn't build enough to replace them. People are often stuck in hotels as the hostels are all overfull. We used to have to turn away people from the domestic violence hostel when I worked there.
 Grapplingman
Joined: 11/13/2010
Msg: 37
Who are the poor ?
Posted: 3/30/2012 5:46:13 AM

when Thatcher


I always chuckle when I see those words about a single politician who half the population aren't even old enough to remember. Talk about a blame culture hahaha .... surely we have had enough voters, politicians, mps, prime ministers, economists, etc etc since then to have made any necessary changes if they truly believed that changes were needed.
we'll be blaming King Charles next (no not the spaniel although that would make as much sense).
 Marquis_de_Michaelmas
Joined: 10/23/2008
Msg: 38
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Who are the poor ?
Posted: 3/30/2012 5:53:13 AM
We seem to have a lot of people particularly OAPs that die each year because they have to make a choice between heating and food!

Perhaps they are the poor?
 Pud78
Joined: 4/29/2010
Msg: 39
Who are the poor ?
Posted: 3/30/2012 5:53:23 AM
We do not real poverty in the UK but does that matter? We are a rich Country and have many resources and wealth and when people can't reach a basic standard level of life then that has to be seen as poverty in UK terms.
A lot of the people who are struggling to make ends meat and pay their bills are usally partly to blame and haven't lived within their means and from the outside I can sneer and say well it is your mess and you haven't budgeted etc. but the reality is that their outgoings outstrip what comes in and that is often before food and fuel bills are paid.
The question isn't who are the poor but how do we help them to help themselves?
Their usually in debt, at the prey for payday loans, In a vicious circle that they have virtually zero chance of getting out off.
 OneOnOwn
Joined: 1/1/2012
Msg: 40
Who are the poor ?
Posted: 3/30/2012 7:36:50 AM
One of the main faults of society and I defy anyone who makes a post on here to say otherwise , is that we tend to live up to our income. As long as the money is popping into our banks on a regular basis then we tend to spend knowing that all will be good at the end of the month.
That scenario can suddenly change for a multitude of reasons from death of a partner, job loss, divorce etc. and suddenly that secure income reduces. But as many also overspent, ie took up loans for new TV etc. they effectively spent more than they earn't. OK whilst the income keeps arriving and prices of basic commodities is reasonably static but a change in mortgage rates coupled with a dramatic drop in income easily puts the available cash into shortage.
Much of our recession is created by people concentrating on basic spending and clearing existing debts and not rushing out to buy a new item just because they fancy it rather than need it. An unexpected bill such as a lawyers bill for divorce etc can easily put even the most secure finances of people into a struggling situation.
Motto is save a bit , however small, for a rainy day and you should be used to rainy days in the UK.
 gemini_lady_uk
Joined: 7/16/2008
Msg: 41
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Who are the poor ?
Posted: 3/30/2012 8:24:33 AM
Tiddlorz - while I agree with a lot of your comment, there are also a significant number of people using these expensive loan sites because they have screwed things up in the past, got themselves into bankruptcy, still never learned to manage money even while in decent jobs but can't get credit cards, bank loans etc because they are bankrupts so have no option but to use them.

They don't have to be poor, they just have to be stupid in managing finances and unfortunately they don't learn. They use wages to pay for holidays, meals out, no thoughts about saving a few pounds here or there, then car breaks down, washing machine goes on the blink, no savings, can't get credit - use payday lenders, repay at stupid rates therefore end up with less money. They are not poor, just poor at money management.

For me to accept someone is poor in general, they would not be able to smoke, drink, holiday, run a car, have internet, TV packages, socialise, buy anything other than basic, cheapest food (not McD's or KFC's), use charity shops for clothing. They would put on an extra jumper so heating could be turned down a degree or two and they would make damned sure they didn't reproduce. To me, that would be poor in our society.

Bring back food and utility stamps but make sure picture ID had to be shown so they couldn't be sold (yup, I used to sell my school dinner tickets, buy a bag of crisps and a cigarette with a match)
 OneOnOwn
Joined: 1/1/2012
Msg: 42
Who are the poor ?
Posted: 3/30/2012 9:17:04 AM
Well said Gemini.
In the past Ive been offered:
Family allowance books full of coupons at cut price so they could but fags and booze.
Pension books full of coupons to buy fags and booze.
Items that they have just bought on HP so they could buy fags and booze.

These were not stolen items by the way. Just wanted immediate cash for their luxuries.
 *rem*
Joined: 11/5/2008
Msg: 43
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Who are the poor ?
Posted: 3/30/2012 9:35:17 AM
Can't believe peole are talking about poverty and mortgages in the same sentence.

UK poverty line for a range of households, 2009/10 Household type
Poverty line: Household income, £ a week
Single person, no children
£124

I get less than that per Fortnight on JSA
 OneOnOwn
Joined: 1/1/2012
Msg: 44
Who are the poor ?
Posted: 3/30/2012 10:08:41 AM
Why not Rem ?
Imagine you bought a house with a deposit. House prices drop and your mortgage is now more than the property is worth. The deposit you put down has vanished. You can't sell up because the mortgage company will go for the balance and if it does your credit rating is wrecked. If you do sell you have deemed to have made yourself homeless and the council will not be obligated to help you. Lose your job and you are virtually finished .And there is no housing benefit to help.
 *rem*
Joined: 11/5/2008
Msg: 45
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Who are the poor ?
Posted: 3/30/2012 10:22:58 AM
Rent it out and live somewhere cheaper? Ive even heard of an old couple who live permanently in a travelodge because its cheaper than owning their house and paying council tax, electricity,gas etc..
 OneOnOwn
Joined: 1/1/2012
Msg: 46
Who are the poor ?
Posted: 3/30/2012 10:39:15 AM
REM , The mortgage on the property will be more than you can rent it out for. Secondly mortgage companies are taking a stricter line on renting and are calling in the loan or charging commercial rates . Thirdly what happens...as all to often does ,the tenant does not pay rent. Or damages the property. If you rent you know tenants have rights and it can take months to evict so the owner will be paying rent for his own place and mortgage for the place he owns.
It usually all ends up in repo and tears and instead of the ''owner'' just getting rid of the house and mortgage they are left with paying shortfalls.
A quick look at any property website will show how many repo properties are now being sold and the owners , who may still be working, will be saddled with bankruptcy orders or attachment of earnings or other nasties. It can for example increase car insurance premiums, stop any further credit for 6 years and the list is endless. Lives ruined .
Not singling renters out but they have it easy if they lose their jobs. Benefits help. There is no help for the house owner even in negative equity.
 lightstar1
Joined: 2/21/2012
Msg: 47
Who are the poor ?
Posted: 3/30/2012 10:41:58 AM
I have elderly customers who spend most of their lives living abroad on cut-price holidays.
They reckon it's cheaper than being at home, the weather is usually better, and they get fed at no extra cost.......

 stonecastle
Joined: 2/14/2007
Msg: 48
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Who are the poor ?
Posted: 3/30/2012 11:35:10 AM
I would say the poor in Britain today are those who earn less than 300 pounds a week in most northern parts of the country and under 400 pounds a week in most southern areas of Britain where rents are around 150 pounds a week just for one tiny room.
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