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 AUTHOR
 1ukn4u
Joined: 10/30/2010
Msg: 651
Feminism Your ViewsPage 27 of 44    (4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44)
Thanks for being reasonable. Here's a few more issues. Attorney generals office will drag a non custodial dad into their office in a heartbeat. It's happened to me twice now. Two weeks latter child support is being withdrawn from your check. In both cases one ten years ago and one still ongoing the mothers decided the children were better off with me. So I went back to ask for help. Attorney general laughed in my face and told me I was a man.

So that means %25 of my income from child support is being withdrawn. They expect me to get a lawyer. So that's a chunk of change there to. So despite the fact you have children to feed your paying%25 to child support and probably another%25 to a loan you took out to pay for a lawyer. Some men can't afford this. I starved for several months to keep my children fed. We men are you fathers your brothers your sons your uncles your nephews your friends and your coworkers. Does this sound like equality to you? We can never be equals until we treat EVERYONE equally.
 emptyvases
Joined: 4/4/2012
Msg: 652
Feminism Your Views
Posted: 4/21/2012 1:01:40 PM
The above post reminds me of a buddy of mine and what he has gone through with his ex.
For MANY MANY years now, since their divorce, this man has been paying $750.00 per month.
They had one child together, a son. The ex took the child and moved to another state many years ago.
My friend never rarely gets to see his son, maybe twice in 16 years. When he has seen the boy, the boy is wearing old clothes and old shoes, etc.
The ex wife basically uses my friend's money to live on, since she is lazy and doesn't work.
Oh, I should mention also that my friend makes VERY little money in service industry jobs, we're talking maybe 12 dollars an hour. So, $750 is probably about 2 weeks of his entire pay.
I think that he tried to get the amount reduced but the judge disallowed a reduction.
Such stories are not unusual, and are a direct result of "womens' rights."
 1ukn4u
Joined: 10/30/2010
Msg: 653
Feminism Your Views
Posted: 4/21/2012 1:15:52 PM
I will say this. When I finally got back to court and modified the orders I turned it into my work and they stopped withdrawing the money. So I was happy my kids were happy. About four months later I heard a knock at my door. It was Texas marshals and they were there to arrest me. They tried to call my kids mom and got no answer. I begged them to call my mom before calling social services to come get the my kids they just freaked out arresting me infront of them. I asked what they were arresting me for. Back child support. I got them to get my modified orders. They said great you can show these to the judge when we let you see him. My mom came thank god. I saw the judge two days latter. I was released and the reason given for the whole ordeal was the attorney general is 9 months backlogged. Go figure.
 CharityTrue
Joined: 11/15/2011
Msg: 654
Feminism Your Views
Posted: 4/21/2012 1:39:20 PM
I am eternally grateful for the abolitionist movement. Slavery in the US has been abolished for quite some time now and I am happy about that..
Therefore, I am not an aboltionist. Will there ever be a time when prejudice and unfairness are eliminated? I very much doubt it.
Nevertheless I soldier on, trying to do the best I can for me and mine
I find the feminist stance of white western women to be mystifying the passion of its devotees misplaced. They speak of the "enslavement" of women with a straight face.

Try as I may, I cannot think of a single white woman who was lynched for being accused of simply looking [\i] at a black man.
Western white women have been protected for the most part, by their men.
Yes, there has been abuse as there is in all human relationships; but y'all wanted liberation, you got it, you now have to work like your men, but you're STILL not happy, and y'all Are so mean to your own men...

You are an era of women, lost to the third generation because you are brainwashed by books and the media and "educated" out of the ability to listen and hear the beat of your own hearts.
You sit here on a dating site running down the men you want to date. (Don't think the men you might like who are not posting are not reading, hearing all this)

This is why feminism is a mental illness for a heterosexual woman. It's self-destructive.
You espouse it, hold it close to your breast and it will be the only thing you are left with. No husband, no kids, no grandkids, no family life, no part of the circle of life, just your illustrious or otherwise career which will end, some "great friends", your glass(es) of wine, your computer, a few cats and the awful dawning realisation that it was all a ruse to get your tax dollars as a wage slave.

We women were meant for more than that.

Many of you are so screwed-up mentally and emotionally through feminist mindset,
that you are no longer "fit" for a loving relationship with a man.
You know it and be assured men know it too...
Gloria Steinem is a diabolical liar, we need men and (they have always known) they need us. Feminism is anti-men, anti-women, anti-family and anti-life. Just sayin'...
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 655
view profile
History
Feminism Your Views
Posted: 4/21/2012 2:31:00 PM

For example, a bird is an animal, same like a dog and a cat, yet is not a mammal

No, a bird is a bird. Not going to drag the thread off topic going into all the differences in classifications of living organisms-but a bird is not an animal. A cat is an animal, a fish is not.

Message #669-excellent points.


There is no CONSTITUTIONAL protection from discrimination in employment based on sex.


However-perhaps to AVOID ratification of the ERA-a number of laws and statutes have been put in place dealing with specific issues...that could only be contested by taking an issue all the way to the Supreme Court to HOPE a group of black-robed men and women would say " Oh,yes! See!- There is nothing in the CONSTITUTION that protects a person from discrimination based on sex."

What that Supreme Court argument MIGHT boil down to, is the question of whether the authors of the Constitution,etc meant "all humans" when they said "all men". Remember, we have gone through periods of history where not only women, but people of other races were considered as subclasses of human being, therefore not entitled to the same rights and privileges as adult Caucasian males.
Those subclasses were believed to have less intelligence, to have less control over their emotions and behaviors,to lack the mental agility to do things like vote, own property, handle money.Yes, there WERE some protections(theoretically) in place to protect these various 2nd class citizens from outright brutality,from being wilfully murdered...but back when the documents we revere as the foundation of our system of government(USA)-"All men"-may very well have meant EXACTLY that-because women and certain other racial groups were regarded as being a lesser class of human being, than property-owning caucasian males.


Then there is the overwhelming majority type 3 women. These women force men to help them with what they aren't physically able to do and then offer no help in return.


Meaning no disrespect, but I spent many years working in manufacturing and assembly environments and I did NOT see any "majority" of women forcing men to help them without reciprocating.


men don't help them it can even cost a man his job. This has happened to me.


Ahhh-that explains a lot! Not meaning for one minute to discount your experience!-but I can recall a situation where my mother, my aunt and other female union members had to involve the union in protecting them(women employees) from being held to a HIGHER standard than men employees. And this was back in the 1960s.


Well you ladies have brought up that we haven't had a draft in a very long time. Well our volunteer military is an extreme majority men. Why aren't the women volunteering?


According to some of the information and links that have been posted in this topic, it would seem that women CAN be put into harms way but there is a technicality that can prevent them from receiving the pay,recognition and promotion opportunities that go with being placed in harms' way.
One of the reasons men used to use, to keep women in 2nd-class citizen status was the argument that women were less intelligent. Isn't it DELICIOUSLY ironic that now some men are complaining, because women's supposedly lss agile intellect is keeping her from rushing to sign up for a deal where she will take the same risks for less pay, recognition and advancement opportunities?


In other words, the typical white woman has no voice until she becomes a "feminist," at which point she becomes the enemy of the dominant white male population.


I support equal opportunity for ALL, and I am not now, never have been, or will be "the enemy" of the male gender. I may, from many years of being married to a man, of working with men, of interacting with men and women, have a rather wry overview of BOTH genders and their interactions-but "enemy"? No sirree!


So I went back to ask for help. Attorney general laughed in my face and told me I was a man.


why didn't you contact the ACLU and do something about this??


We can never be equals until we treat EVERYONE equally.


I do not disagree or mean to make light of the issues you bring up. But what needs to be done-just like women did-is that men need to band together and work to correct these inequities. I KNOW there are "fathers' rights" organizations and "fathers' rights" specialist attorneys springing up like mushrooms all over the place-and they are looking for men who have been demonstrably wronged by family court actions.


I got them to get my modified orders. They said great you can show these to the judge when we let you see him. My mom came thank god. I saw the judge two days latter. I was released and the reason given for the whole ordeal was the attorney general is 9 months backlogged.


Good gawd amighty,man! Why did you not contact a fathers' rights organization/attorney group and SUE THEIR SORRY ASSES for false arrest and imprisonment???

Look-what you are telling us is not surprising to me-in that I felt all along that your anger at feminism was coming out of your having been clearly and inarguably wronged by some aspect of equality for women.

But what needs to be done when these things happen is to seek out the legal recourse to FIGHT BACK. Trust me, the world will run right over the average Joe or Jane in some way or another, if they don't stand up for themselves,.Believe me, I've fought several systems on either my own behalf, or on behalf of the people I served as a social work technician/community outreach agent.

Go figure- nothing!
Go fight back! Like lots of women, ethnicities, the disabled, the alternate sexuality community have done so as to be treated as equal citizens with able bodied, property-owning caucasian men.
Cindy O
 CharityTrue
Joined: 11/15/2011
Msg: 656
Feminism Your Views
Posted: 4/21/2012 2:36:37 PM

I'm going to mention an issue related to this topic directly. Feminism itself is a movement that is part of the atomization
(balkanization) of the population, to break down the dominant culture itself.
PC, or cultural marxism works to dismantle the dominant culture via splintering.
In other words, the typical white woman has no voice until she becomes a "feminist," at which point she becomes the enemy of the dominant white male population. Every group has done this with the blessing of the elites who are doing the social engineering. Blacks, browns, homosexuals, feminists, etc., are all permitted and encouraged to join forces against the dominant culture. Most women have no idea that as "feminists" they are being used by the elites who are using a divide and conquer strategy to gain and keep control.
Anybody can reference what I'm saying here. These are the same techniques that the Bolsheviks used to gain control of Russia. These techniques have been time tested and are extremely effective.
The Frankfurt School promoted these top down ideologies as a means to deconstruct entire cultures.


What he said...
 vampyreshadow
Joined: 3/21/2011
Msg: 657
view profile
History
Feminism Your Views
Posted: 4/21/2012 3:00:34 PM
Kayla the ERA has been ratified at a state level in more then a few states, and is used as state constitutional law http://www.equalrightsamendment.org/ratified.htm

Remember just because it isn't on the constitution at a federal level, doesn't mean its not on a State Constitution, and doesn't mean its not used

It still fails in my state
 chameleonf
Joined: 12/22/2008
Msg: 658
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History
Feminism Your Views
Posted: 4/21/2012 3:12:14 PM
I am eternally grateful for the abolitionist movement. Slavery in the US has been abolished for quite some time now and I am happy about that..Therefore, I am not an aboltionist. Will there ever be a time when prejudice and unfairness are eliminated? I very much doubt it.=Nevertheless I soldier on, trying to do the best I can for me and mine-

There may no longer be slavery as it applies to black people - in the States - but if you for one minute believe that blacks are not discriminated against to this date in a major way, particularly in certain geographical regions, you're living with blinders on strictly because you, yourself, are not feeling the effects. Because there is no slavery, does that mean that there should be no other version of a movement to enhance the "supposed" equality for black people? You "soldier on for you and yours" - others soldier on for the masses.

Women in the western world are no longer enslaved in the manner in which they were, just as blacks are no longer enslaved in the manner in which they were (and no I'm not saying the two were the same form of "enslavement"), however, because matters have become "better", is that reason to become apathetic and be satisfied with the status quo just because it is better but still not equal in the true sense of the word?

As stated in recent posts above regarding child custody and support of children, I've stated many times that there is an unjust inequality where men are concerned and it is, in effect, a form of financial slavery to men. Having raised children myself, I know for a fact what it takes, monetarily, to raise them and the amounts being taken from men in many instances winds up being punitive, rather than fair. Also punitive that they have to fight, and often lose, the ability to have shared custody as it's intended to be because the law is still in favour of believing that women are natural born caregivers - plenty are doing a deplorable job, so it's obvious that isn't the case - the only thing some are naturally born to do is give birth and that's where it ends. But hey, someone "said" that it's equal, so we should just sit back and be satisfied with the status quo. Men's right in this regard need to be fought for just as much as women's rights need to be fought for where there are shortfalls.

Did you ever stop to think that if and when women wind up with equal pay for equal jobs and if their partnerships go south, the men who are being burdened with exorbitant child support wouldn't have to pick up the slack for the amount that the mother can't afford to contribute? - more equality in pay - more equality in contribution to the raising of children.



This is why feminism is a mental illness for a heterosexual woman. It's self-destructive. You espouse it, hold it close to your breast and it will be the only thing you are left with. No husband, no kids, no grandkids, no family life, no part of the circle of life, just your illustrious or otherwise career which will end, some "great friends", your glass(es) of wine, your computer, a few cats and the awful dawning realisation that it was all a ruse to get your tax dollars as a wage slave.


Oh, I see. This must mean then that because men earn more for the same jobs that women hold (look up the stats for yourself) and some want to keep it that way, that they will have no wife, no kids, no grandkids, no family life, etc. etc. and will be left with nothing more than their box of bear, their computer and a bunch of boys toys in a ruse to get their tax dollars as a wage slave. Give me a fricking break already. As you continuously spout, "spoken like a true feminist", I can certainly say the opposite - spoken like a true anti-feminist but more particularly, more often as true misogynist in the manner the opinions are expressed.
 FixedVariable
Joined: 10/17/2010
Msg: 659
view profile
History
Feminism Your Views
Posted: 4/21/2012 3:32:04 PM

Such stories are not unusual, and are a direct result of "womens' rights."


I'm sorry, but those stories are a direct result of idiotic laws, not feminism.


the mothers decided the children were better off with me. So I went back to ask for help. Attorney general laughed in my face and told me I was a man.


Am I understanding this right? You have custody of the kids, but are still paying child support?

If I am reading your post correctly.. my god idiotic laws for sure.


Feminism is anti-men, anti-women, anti-family and anti-life. Just sayin'...


So.. 28 pages and yet still NO CLUE what feminism is. It would be hilarious if it wasn't so sad.
 CharityTrue
Joined: 11/15/2011
Msg: 660
Feminism Your Views
Posted: 4/21/2012 3:45:36 PM
True anti-feminist and proud of it... misogyny is hatred of women, denouncing other women for doing things women have always done is typical feminist behaviour. they are, in actual fact, the true misogynists...
I love women (not sexually) an woman hood and therefore have never made the mistake of trying to compete as, or be a man. A woman trying to be just the same as a man will always lose something... Her very self...
But carry on, I know you will...
 Iona_Bob
Joined: 3/31/2012
Msg: 661
Feminism Your Views
Posted: 4/21/2012 3:48:41 PM
Yes. The Equal Rights Amendment (ERA) has been “officially” ratified by 35 states. 38 are required for it to be a constitutional AMENDMENT, which is what it was intended and drafted to be. Those of us who campaigned for it, are very aware of the process. Virginia is the 36th state to “unofficially” "ratify" the ERA and has done so, yearly, for the past two years. Please note that Virginia is on the list of states who FAILED to ratify the Amendment during the initial process, yet the window has closed on the timeline, so even though they have ratified it every year, it does not count.

A time-limit imposed by Congress for ratifying the amendment has since expired. But Sen. Patsy Ticer (D-Alexandria), the bill's sponsor, explained to colleagues that an attorney general's ruling in the 1990s indicated that the amendment can still be ratified by states because such a clause can be disregarded by Congress if it was not a part of the original proposed constitutional amendment.


http://voices.washingtonpost.com/virginiapolitics/2011/02/virginia_senate_approves_resol.html

The proposed Equal Rights Amendment (ERA) to the U.S. Constitution finally passed the House of Representatives and Senate in the early 1970s, five decades after it was first proposed by Alice Paul. In March 1972, Congress sent the ERA to the states for ratification, with a March 1979 deadline. Eventually, the ERA deadline of seven years was extended, but the ERA still fell three states short of ratification … The fight for ratification by the new 1982 deadline continued. However, no more states ratified. On June 30, 1982, the total remained at 35. In October 1982, the Supreme Court ruled that the Idaho v. Freeman case was moot because the required total of 38 states had not been met, with or without the rescissions and deadline extension.

http://womenshistory.about.com/od/feminism/a/ERA_deadline.htm


I corrected you because in an earlier post, you said "Like the Guy who sued hooters to get a job, which he did thanks to the ERA." There is no “ERA” on the books. It failed. He lives in Texas and settled in 2009 for an undisclosed sum. You are correct that states have the power to make their own Constitutions which may provide for gender equality. Texas DOES have an Equal Rights Section in its Constitution:
Sec. 3a. EQUALITY UNDER THE LAW. Equality under the law shall not be denied or abridged because of sex, race, color, creed, or national origin. This amendment is self-operative. (Added Nov. 7, 1972.)


He was a little late, btw, since in 1997, Hooters agreed to pay $3.75 million to settle a sexual discrimination lawsuit filed by a group of men.

Nothing screws with the status quo of most societies like a perceived “threat” or redefinition of gender/sex roles. The fear factor that was introduced in the Hooter’s case was hairy legged guys in the Rockettes and Male Models in the Sports Illustrated swimsuit issue.

But just because a state ratifies a proposed Amendment to the US Constitution, it does not mean that it is incorporated into the State’s constitution. I am sure you understand this, but to clarify, even if a “lower” government (State, Municipal, Local) has its own version of the ERA, the ERA applies ONLY to the US constitution. I emphasize this so that you understand it has FAILED the required three-quarters ratification (though 35 states – 36 “counting” Virginia - have done so). So, please, keep on keeping on …


The ERA was passed out of Congress in 1972 and has been ratified by 35 of the necessary 38 states. When three more states vote yes, it is possible that the ERA could become the 28th Amendment. The ERA could also be ratified by restarting the traditional process of passage by a two-thirds majority in the Senate and the House of Representatives, followed by ratification by legislatures in three-quarters (38) of the 50 states.


http://www.equalrightsamendment.org/

I do want to talk about the “fear factor,” of which we are seeing evidence in this thread, but I will have to come back later.
 verygreeneyez
Joined: 3/15/2006
Msg: 662
view profile
History
Feminism Your Views
Posted: 4/21/2012 3:51:09 PM
True anti-feminist and proud of it... misogyny is hatred of women, denouncing other women for doing things women have always done is typical feminist behaviour. they are, in actual fact, the true misogynists...
I love women (not sexually) an woman hood and therefore have never made the mistake of trying to compete as, or be a man. A woman trying to be just the same as a man will always lose something... Her very self...
But carry on, I know you will...

I'd never quite known a good "label" for myself on this note, but I think I'll adopt yours "a true anti-feminist" works for me. I generally just term myself "traditional gender roled" ~ but I like your label. (And I agree ~ misogynists are indeed, those who hate women and I know plenty of misogynists who do indeed hate their own gender peers who aren't libbers. Sad, sad, sad.) JMO
 FixedVariable
Joined: 10/17/2010
Msg: 663
view profile
History
Feminism Your Views
Posted: 4/21/2012 3:56:19 PM

True anti-feminist and proud of it... misogyny is hatred of women, denouncing other women for doing things women have always done is typical feminist behaviour. they are, in actual fact, the true misogynists...


And you're not denouncing other women..? Ok then. I really want to laugh, but I suspect that might be a little rude.


A woman trying to be just the same as a man will always lose something... Her very self...


Good lord.. so I want to be the same as a man? No, and I cannot recall where I said or even implied that. I am fine with competing with them, but I don't want to BE them. I'm a woman and oddly enough, feminine too. Imagine.

Once again... it's about equal rights (and the responsibilities that go along with having said rights).
 CharityTrue
Joined: 11/15/2011
Msg: 664
Feminism Your Views
Posted: 4/21/2012 4:03:39 PM
I talked about this tendency of feminists to overly personalize posts as though everything was directed straight at them. I am speaking generally about women who self-identify as feminist... I have met enough to state my beliefs about them as a group... I noticed, lots of arguing about facts, figures and data and no response on how feminist stance affects their personal lives, relationships with men...


So.. 28 pages and yet still NO CLUE what feminism is. It would be hilarious if it wasn't so sad.

of course we don't... we need you to educate us... hilarious, indeed...
 mrcs84
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 665
view profile
History
Feminism Your Views
Posted: 4/21/2012 5:23:52 PM


denouncing other women for doing things women have always done is typical feminist behaviour.


And you're not denouncing other women..? Ok then.

Umm...she's denouncing a subsection of women. Not women as a whole.



I am fine with competing with them, but I don't want to BE them.

I'm still waiting to see the co-ed Olympics myself. Then we can finally put to rest this whole "I can do anything a man can do" nonsense.
 chameleonf
Joined: 12/22/2008
Msg: 666
view profile
History
Feminism Your Views
Posted: 4/21/2012 6:45:13 PM

True anti-feminist and proud of it... misogyny is hatred of women, denouncing other women for doing things women have always done is typical feminist behaviour. they are, in actual fact, the true misogynists...

Who's denouncing women for doing things women have always done? My take is that the anti-feminist is the one who is denouncing women for doing things that women have not always done - an inability to think outside the box and stuck in some kind of time warp because it's a comfortable place to be. It's not wrong - it's their preference and their comfort zone. I shudder to think, however, of the number of things that anti-feminists of both genders wouldn't be able to benefit from if not for women who have thought outside the box and continue to do so in any number of fields.

You speak as though feminists aren't mothers, housewives and in wonderful relationships with men and that they hate men - oh right, generally speaking, of course. That's the problem with generalizations, they can be incredibly off the mark from reality. Feminists don't say they want to be like men, they want to be treated equally where applicable. They don't want to take over men's jobs where they don't have the capability of performing those jobs. They want equality for doing the same job. They don't want to be a man but neither do they want to pretend they're a simpering female idiot who attempts to use her so called feminine wiles to lazily use a man to do something they can do equally as well for themselves - it's an easy out to be lazy and say you can't do something strictly because you're female, and it's something that is perpetuated by many parents in a "daddy's little girl" sort of way. That some women can perform the same job physically as men is on a case by case basis, not a demand to be allowed to fill positions and roles they have no capability to perform by education, training, experience or physical ability (those who would attempt to do this in a radical way simply come across as a fool by both feminists and anti-feminists). This has been stated repeatedly by the majority of humanists/feminists in this thread and yet, repeatedly, there's some sort of short circuit in the ability to comprehend by some, which I suppose can be attributed to a true thickness or a deliberate feigned thickness used as a baiting tactic by a die hard flamer - or a mix of both.
 catalina_view
Joined: 4/8/2012
Msg: 667
Feminism Your Views
Posted: 4/21/2012 7:14:33 PM
FixedVariable, don't waste your time. Nobody understands half of what she posts most of the time. And what she does post make no sense.
I understand your posts and agree completely. But then you're clear and articulate and bright. And chamaleon you nailed it in one. But again it'll go right over some people's heads.
 Mr_Celibate
Joined: 2/16/2012
Msg: 668
Feminism Your Views
Posted: 4/21/2012 7:35:10 PM
emptyvases wrote:

I'm going to mention an issue related to this topic directly. Feminism itself is a movement that is part of the atomization
(balkanization) of the population, to break down the dominant culture itself.
PC, or cultural marxism works to dismantle the dominant culture via splintering.
In other words, the typical white woman has no voice until she becomes a "feminist," at which point she becomes the enemy of the dominant white male population. Every group has done this with the blessing of the elites who are doing the social engineering. Blacks, browns, homosexuals, feminists, etc., are all permitted and encouraged to join forces against the dominant culture. Most women have no idea that as "feminists" they are being used by the elites who are using a divide and conquer strategy to gain and keep control.
Anybody can reference what I'm saying here. These are the same techniques that the Bolsheviks used to gain control of Russia. These techniques have been time tested and are extremely effective.
The Frankfurt School promoted these top down ideologies as a means to deconstruct entire cultures.

Thanks for re-quoting this Charity as I would have missed it otherwise. I did mention the "divide and conquer" point a while back on the thread.

Realize that disinformation, spin, lies, are everywhere. It's on the internet and pof as well. No one is immune. We are drowning in it. If you can manage to come up for air and take a deep breath, try to swim against the current and realize that feminism is not about "equal rights." It's a "divide and conquer strategy to gain and keep control" as the man said.

The people who are controlling this move slowly, incrementally; making it harder to discern what the long term goal is. Some have described one of the ways they effect change is to take two steps forward and one step backward. The net result being one step forward. The classic description of this social engineering strategy is of a frog sitting in a pot of water where the heat is turned up slowly in such a way that the frog just sits there and dies. Turning the heat up too quickly would cause the frog to jump out.

I'm personally hesitant to jump right on board with the men's rights movement for this reason. If men say that women and feminism are the "enemy" we're missing the bigger picture. Not identifying the real enemy wastes time and plays into their hands.
 1ukn4u
Joined: 10/30/2010
Msg: 669
Feminism Your Views
Posted: 4/21/2012 7:51:54 PM

Meaning no disrespect, but I spent many years working in manufacturing and assembly environments and I did NOT see any "majority" of women forcing men to help them without reciprocating.


No disrespect to you but you are one woman and a self proclaimed feminists to boot. Maybe we could get some other opinions here on this one. I've worked a few of those jobs too and those are my experiences.



Ahhh-that explains a lot! Not meaning for one minute to discount your experience!-but I can recall a situation where my mother, my aunt and other female union members had to involve the union in protecting them(women employees) from being held to a HIGHER standard than men employees. And this was back in the 1960s.


No disrespect to what those poor ladies probably experienced but it's hardly the same situation. If a woman told me she was having a hard time with a physical aspect of her job as I stated me and many other men would clearly have no problem helping her. At the same time like I also said seems reasonable for her to help a little I mean atleast some effort in the person's area that helpped her. Is that unreasonable? I just feel it's being polite. Maybe at the very least a thank you? That to much to ask for too? We are both employees for the same company after all and we are suppose to cooroperate.


According to some of the information and links that have been posted in this topic, it would seem that women CAN be put into harms way but there is a technicality that can prevent them from receiving the pay,recognition and promotion opportunities that go with being placed in harms' way.
One of the reasons men used to use, to keep women in 2nd-class citizen status was the argument that women were less intelligent. Isn't it DELICIOUSLY ironic that now some men are complaining, because women's supposedly lss agile intellect is keeping her from rushing to sign up for a deal where she will take the same risks for less pay, recognition and advancement opportunities?



Intellect? Wow your right all my friends that have died for your freedom and rights in Iraq and afganistan are really a bunch of dum a**es. Now that deliciously ironic. You want pay, recognition and promotion for a job a. None of you have performed. b. A job the government doesn't think you can do. What you really mean is it's stupid for anyone to fight for their country and they are a bunch of idiots. Like I said in an earlier post if you guys would volunteer in enough numbers and show enough interests in defending your country how can they deny you all that you have listed. Especially if you fought for those rights to those responsibilities. Yet none of your womens rights organizations have done this. It's funny after I post you ladies get real quiet for a while and really have to think about what I'm saying. You know I'm right. I love you lady c4 and I love your posts I have a great deal of respect for you. I have a lot of childhood friends I'll never see again due to dieing defending our country so I'm going to give you fair warning. I will rip you to shreds on this very forum. I suggest you rethink your side of the arguement here.




why didn't you contact the ACLU and do something about this??


I can only afford to take so much time of having doors slammed in my face. I am a full time worker and a full time father after all.


Good gawd amighty,man! Why did you not contact a fathers' rights organization/attorney group and SUE THEIR SORRY ASSES for false arrest and imprisonment???



I was broke and starving. It's not like I'm the one and only man they have done this to. Also like I said above. I got only so much time to spend on this and to be honest I was just happy to get out of jail period.




Women in the western world are no longer enslaved in the manner in which they were, just as blacks are no longer enslaved in the manner in which they were (and no I'm not saying the two were the same form of "enslavement"), however, because matters have become "better", is that reason to become apathetic and be satisfied with the status quo just because it is better but still not equal in the true sense of the word?


Holly sh*t! Are you guys serious? We've gone from oppressed to 2nd class citizens to slaves now? Wow! you ladies are high. Even if that's true this is 2012 and really has nothing to do with the state of today.



Did you ever stop to think that if and when women wind up with equal pay for equal jobs and if their partnerships go south, the men who are being burdened with exorbitant child support wouldn't have to pick up the slack for the amount that the mother can't afford to contribute? - more equality in pay - more equality in contribution to the raising of children.


What difference would it make if every non custodial mother in the world had a 15 million dollar a year job and was ordered to pay a million of it in child support a year if the attorney general isn't going to enforce child support laws against women?



I'm sorry, but those stories are a direct result of idiotic laws, not feminism.


True but at the same time there are no women movements that are interested in the responsibilities that should come along with their equal rights.




Am I understanding this right? You have custody of the kids, but are still paying child support?

If I am reading your post correctly.. my god idiotic laws for sure.



Ok here is how it works. A woman basically decides that the father should be custodial parent. So he gets physical possesion of the child/ren. Right? Now it's his sole responsibility to modify the orders. This can take a year or even two years. Meanwhile you are still responsible for paying child support. With men they enforce hardcore. So even if you change and or convince your employer to stop sending payments they will come and get you. Literally. So even though I never ran and hid or dodged my responsibility. I wasn't allowed to go into the attorney generals office and get them to acknowledge a custody change they made me get a lawyer and get a judgement.



P.S. I do believe I read that ms. verygreeneyes is a lawyer. I maybe wrong though.
 chameleonf
Joined: 12/22/2008
Msg: 670
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History
Feminism Your Views
Posted: 4/21/2012 8:12:12 PM

Women in the western world are no longer enslaved in the manner in which they were, just as blacks are no longer enslaved in the manner in which they were (and no I'm not saying the two were the same form of "enslavement"), however, because matters have become "better", is that reason to become apathetic and be satisfied with the status quo just because it is better but still not equal in the true sense of the word?



Holly sh*t! Are you guys serious? We've gone from oppressed to 2nd class citizens to slaves now? Wow! you ladies are high. Even if that's true this is 2012 and really has nothing to do with the state of today.

How convenient of you to yet again take something out of context which is responding to a specific statement made by someone else and twist it to sound like it's stating something other than what it was responding to. Try to stick with the programme instead of continuing to convolute things to support your largely unsupportable position.
 FixedVariable
Joined: 10/17/2010
Msg: 671
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Feminism Your Views
Posted: 4/21/2012 8:22:06 PM

I talked about this tendency of feminists to overly personalize posts as though everything was directed straight at them


Seriously?? You're quoting my comments, who else are you talking at? Besides which, I don't speak for everyone, I speak for me.


of course we don't... we need you to educate us... hilarious, indeed...


Given the ridiculous theories I've seen in this thread.. someone sure as hell does.

It's one thing to disagree, but there's a HUGE chunk of participants in this thread who have no clue what feminism is.. yourself included.


and no response on how feminist stance affects their personal lives, relationships with men...


Put quite simply, it doesn't affect my relationships. I'm pretty sure you won't believe that, however.


Umm...she's denouncing a subsection of women. Not women as a whole.


Umm.. she's doing the exact same thing she just accused me of doing. Are you actually reading along? It doesn't appear that you are.


FixedVariable, don't waste your time. Nobody understands half of what she posts most of the time. And what she does post make no sense.


Meh.. her views are her views, I really don't care about that.. we ALL have our own opinions. It's the hypocracy that gets me.


But then you're clear and articulate and bright.


Thanks.


Ok here is how it works. A woman basically decides that the father should be custodial parent. So he gets physical possesion of the child/ren. Right? Now it's his sole responsibility to modify the orders. This can take a year or even two years. Meanwhile you are still responsible for paying child support.


WOw, that makes no sense... not your explanation, but the law you're explaining.


True but at the same time there are no women movements that are interested in the responsibilities that should come along with their equal rights.


Yes.. there are.


With men they enforce hardcore. So even if you change and or convince your employer to stop sending payments they will come and get you.


Yikes. Where I work, I am the one responsible for making sure all the support notices we get for our employees get paid to the various states. I'm in Canada, but we have employees all over the US and Canada. Having said that, I know nothing about support enforcement in the US. Although, I suspect our own laws are at least as non-sensical.
 emptyvases
Joined: 4/4/2012
Msg: 672
Feminism Your Views
Posted: 4/21/2012 8:45:06 PM
Mr. Cule,

Glad to see that you get it, and thanks to Charity for the repost. It's obvious that my post flew right over the heads of the true believers, the frogs in the boiling pot.
I can delineate each every aspect of my previous post, and I doubt seriously that there will be any intelligent challenges.
Critical theory and marxist ideology and political correctness are fascinating topics, and like peeling an onion it's amazing to see what's underneath.
It saddens me to see people who've been indoctrinated and have no perspective on where these ideas came from, who thought them up, and who benefits (and who loses) when these movements are implemented.
I can tell you that feminism (and abortion) have severely decreased the fertility rates of our population, and done lasting damage to this country.
It might behoove the "feminists" here to look into what particular group seems to produce the most feminists and feminist rhetoric, and consider that an evolutionary strategy could be the reason for this in-group to do damage to the general population as an out-group.
 Gashlycrumb_Briny
Joined: 9/26/2010
Msg: 673
Feminism Your Views
Posted: 4/21/2012 8:45:43 PM

some of your feminist sisters feel that "women's work" needs to be paid just as much as "men's work."


Are we to conclude then that it is your opinion that 'women's work' is indeed less valuable than 'men's work'?




do feminists want equal pay for DIFFERENT work and want to make the work "comparable" instead of simply doing the same work?


Is this a sincere question? the why don't women just do 'men's work'? because you seem to have answered it yourself:


Because we are more concerned about being PC than getting the job done. Just look at the histories of the protective jobs such as firefighting, police, and military


i.e., you don't think they are able (unless we really dumb it down for them).


This guy (and others in this thread) seem to have the same contradictory thinking going on:


why would women want the opportunity to get drafted?



some self titled feminists don't want equal rights, they want every privilege they can get, with none of the responsibility


Wouldn't wanting to be drafted count as wanting to take on some of the responsibility?
 mrcs84
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 674
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History
Feminism Your Views
Posted: 4/21/2012 9:21:24 PM


some of your feminist sisters feel that "women's work" needs to be paid just as much as "men's work."

Are we to conclude then that it is your opinion that 'women's work' is indeed less valuable than 'men's work'?


I'm not making that conclusion. Society holds different things to different values. I most certainly think that a construction worker or a road worker has a more important job than a professional basketball player, however, the basketball player will probably make more in 1 year than the other guys will make in 10. What I am saying is that the market determines the values of certain jobs. Moreover, the market changes over time, trying to implement comparable worth means that if pays in one job change due to the market, you have to juxtapose that job to it's "comparable" job(s). Are the other jobs now worth more/less in the new market setting? Or should they simply adjust their worth because of the fact that worth of one job changed? All in all, it's entirely too costly and cumbersome to try to implement such an [unreliable] algorithm.


Is this a sincere question? the why don't women just do 'men's work'? because you seem to have answered it yourself

And yet you have several companies that feel that women deserve the same recognition for -not- doing the same work. What kind of equality is that?


i.e., you don't think they are able (unless we really dumb it down for them).

I think that there are less women that are ACTUALLY capable of doing the job than they think they can, and I most certainly do believe that a significant percentage of the women that are employed in these jobs are actually capable of fulfilling their duties.

Here's a rather telling video on the subject:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERwzqvs7vvU
 1ukn4u
Joined: 10/30/2010
Msg: 675
Feminism Your Views
Posted: 4/21/2012 9:42:07 PM

How convenient of you to yet again take something out of context which is responding to a specific statement made by someone else and twist it to sound like it's stating something other than what it was responding to. Try to stick with the programme instead of continuing to convolute things to support your largely unsupportable position.


The comparison of women to african american slaves is not out of context. Also I've provided the evidence for my position show me the evidence that women are or were oppressed, 2nd class citizens and slaves. In the past is the past. IT was a completely different time. Have you ever watched a man plow a field with a freaking horse and a plow? I watched an amish guy do it and thought holy sh*t I'd die if I had to do that. How where men any less oppressed 2nd class citizens or a slave to women? There were gender roles and if you asked either gender at those times if they felt they were any of those things I bet they would say no. Yet I bet african americans knew darn well they were slaves. Imagine that, Give me a break already.
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