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 RAMPERBILL
Joined: 2/16/2010
Msg: 176
Feminism Your ViewsPage 8 of 44    (4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44)
Yeah I definitely remember reading a -few- articles that hovered over that mentality. Titles like Psychiatrist and CEO both came up. I could just imagine seeing a SAHM trying to apply for a job at Enron as their CEO, and when they ask for her credentials, she can just tell them that she has been raising her 2-year old.
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I remember the CEO title now that you mention it. Now that I think of it I remember when you'll see it again. Mother's Day. Keep your eyes peeled for it if you're interested in seeing if the job market has reduced her salary. She should still be employed though with all the titles she holds.
 Capn_America
Joined: 10/6/2011
Msg: 177
Feminism Your Views
Posted: 4/10/2012 7:06:34 AM
Man, people like to complicate things....
Read somewhere someone mentionning feminism is female with male caracteristics; WRONG.
Feminism is this; having two candidates for the same job, a man and a woman, and then, them having the same tests, the same exams, the same everything, without anyone looking to see if this one has balls or that one has breasts.
Itès about treating a human being like a human being, not like a "Oh, she's weaker because she's a woman".....
Men and women ARE equal. They can't necessarily do the same things men can. Then again, I can't jump like Michael Jordan either. Does that make me "less of a man" or "less of a person" than him? Nadda.
And women will always BE women. And thank GOD for that, or else I wouldnt have kids lol. Thats what people cant wrap their heads around, the fact that a woman can be as talented as any man. We only see the shape, not the person. Not everyone was made to be the strongest person in the world, but maybe out there a man, OR a woman, is. THATS what feminism should be; the fact that sex has no impact.
It's not about considering women like men, women behaving like men, or comparing men to women or women to men, or ALL that crap. It's about recognizing the fact that a woman is an individual in the same right as any man, and that the fact she is a woman has absolutely no impact on her consideration as a human being. Her talents and abilities, whatever they may bay, can vary as much as any man in the world, and as such a lack of said ability in any field should not be viewed on the basis that she is a woman, but on the basis that she is a human being that simply does NOT HAVE said ability. It's a simple as that. If a woman becomes director, I wish, no, I EXPECT her to win as much money and get as much respect as any man; the fact she reached her position should be a testimony to her ability, not to anything else, especially not to the fact that she's a woman; it shouldnt have any impact on her abilities. And if the whole of society did see it this way, instead of viewing Feminism as a threat to be eradicated, or as a bunch of grumpy old ladies who play bridge, are all lesbians and enjoy dissing out men, then everything would be a lot better than it is.
The Feminism I dont agree with, and that seems to be very popular with Governements everywhere on the planet, is the one where you lower requirements for women, shove them into any kind of job or positions, require less of them, pay them less, and then parade them around saying "See? Women for us are just as important as men". That's insulting to men and women everywhere, and its unfortunately a very popular trend. I remember when I was in high school I made that reflection; we had push-up exams that were required. I was 9, fat, unable to do more than 9. Passing score was 12. ALL the girls passed; they could do push ups on their knees instead. I found it unfair and complained. I was answered by the teacher "They are girls, we cant ask of them as much as we ask of you men". Well I BEG to differ; thereès at least 4 girls in there that could beat some or ALL of the boys on here doing the exact same thing, and its an insult to them, and to us, to think of them as LESSER in any way, and to make the girls that truly ARE lesser in ability pass an exam they ordinarily would have FAILED.
This is a stupid high school example, but its still mirrored in society today, and they still do it on many levels. THATS the type of Feminism I dont agree with, because its an insult to women and men to be treated differently and seperately.
So there
 RAMPERBILL
Joined: 2/16/2010
Msg: 178
Feminism Your Views
Posted: 4/10/2012 8:33:44 AM
In the military your pay is based on rank. (I'd say this is fair and accessible to both sexes)

In the private sector, your pay is based mostly on longevity. A two year employee will earn less than a 15 year employee even if doing the same job. (I'd say this is fair and accessible to both sexes)

The women complaining of unequal pay pertains to the higher earning positions (CEOs/management level). Not being in this category I'll admit to guessing that it is based on position and possibly longevity. (If so, I'd say this is fair and accessible to both sexes).

We're all fortunate to be on this board as it gives you an opportunity to look at professions of the complainers, and to also look at the professions of the ones being complained to, and being held accountable for their underpayment of services rendered. If this complaint even applies to you as the complainer, maybe you shouldn't be paid anymore than you are if you are taking it out on a mechanic. Maybe you should take your complaint to someone who can actually make a difference.
 --Zen--
Joined: 6/29/2011
Msg: 179
Feminism Your Views
Posted: 4/10/2012 8:45:44 AM

@R00t you are presenting your ideas of the world as facts, they arent just your views.

They are not just his ideas. Any logical human can put 2 and 2 together and do some research to verify. There are questions that no feminist want to answer. If women ware oppressed for last 4 thousand years why feminism happened in the last century? Technological progress perhaps? How about divorce rates? Custody battles? Raising depression? Why are men being so up in arms about it? Most don't have a problem with human rights.


at 51% of the population - a minority and apparently there's a new descriptor for it which further boggles my mind: "a minority majority" whew.
I'm glad I'm not the only one to question PC terminology. Normal population ratio is always around 51-49. Men don't face discrimination. They just turn around and walk away


Okay Mr.Cule, fair point.

You use your intellectual abilities and tell me what facts have been stated by Root and I'll research them.

Deal?

I've done that in the last thread that was deleted. Cold war, JFK remember?


Gosh you are right. Everything is conspiracy. EVERYTHING. I guess we'll just throw up our hands and wait for the revolution to start.

It's a fringe idea if it isn't widely accepted. Most men agree that feminism is designed to emasculate men rather than give choices to women. Ones that don't agree, want to be on feminist side just to get some poon. (yikes! Hearing my self say that makes me realize that feminists use same style of argument!)


Then let them cry about it; their turn now. Bashing is UNIVERSAL human behavior. Throughout history. That's never going to change.



So were these measures put into place in order to get women to a place of equality or were they designed to punish for 1,000 years of perceived oppression?

It was obviously the former, although many people perceive it as the latter.

I am amused.
 Capn_America
Joined: 10/6/2011
Msg: 180
Feminism Your Views
Posted: 4/10/2012 8:46:25 AM

In the private sector, your pay is based mostly on longevity. A two year employee will earn less than a 15 year employee even if doing the same job. (I'd say this is fair and accessible to both sexes)


Still not true, at least in 2009 it wasnt. I was working at a company with this girl-friend of mine, she had been there 8 years, including 2 as a student, I had been there maybe 4. After 2 years I was already winning more than 6000 over her. We couldnt find a reason. So me and her march into the bosses office and demanded she be paid more or we'd both quit.
LOL I now work at a different company! God, that was an embarassing moment, I was so stunned, we were laughing all the way out of the door.
But ehy, it made being firing a bit lighter, we had some pity-sex afterwards I hope wherever she is now, she is ghetting paid more.
Anyways, goes to show you in this day and age, it's still not necessarily true. And it SHOULD be.
 motown_cowgirl
Joined: 12/22/2011
Msg: 181
Feminism Your Views
Posted: 4/10/2012 8:56:15 AM
In the private sector, your pay is based mostly on longevity.

No it isn't. However this statement IS true in the public sector. In the private sector, your pay is based mostly on performance. Many private sector employers do not even consider longevity in making pay decisions. So you've got it all ass-backwards.


The women complaining of unequal pay pertains to the higher earning positions (CEOs/management level). Not being in this category I'll admit to guessing that it is based on position and possibly longevity. (If so, I'd say this is fair and accessible to both sexes).

Again CEO/management pay is not based on longevity.... but performance, qualifications, and responsibility. Longevity is a secondary factor at best. Even the public sector does not use step-rates (longevity pay) for executive service positions. Keeping it on point, gender is also a secondary issue. I'm not saying there are no glass ceilings anywhere... but they are the exception, not the rule.


I am amused.

Then congratulations to you for taking what I said out of context for the sole purpose of amusing yourself. It's a lot like masturbating, isn't it??

vvvvvvvvvvvvvv

If you ask me, men and women are -not- equal, and they never were meant to be.

I remember not too long ago when we had a de jure/de facto system in which whites were saying the same things about blacks. I know places in the United States where they still think that way de facto, even though they can't really say so in mixed company de jure. I guess you are okay with that, Mr. Muscles. Because how fast you can run and how much weight you can heave is the sole pre-qualifier for social superiority.
 mrcs84
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 182
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Feminism Your Views
Posted: 4/10/2012 8:56:47 AM

I remember when I was in high school I made that reflection; we had push-up exams that were required.

I never have been a fan of the physical abilities comparisons because those who are intellectually honest will admit that men will almost always come out on top. Just compare female Olympic world records to male ones and the proof is in the pudding. Just looking at the 800m run, the women's world record time is 1:53. For a man to even qualify for entering, he has to run a 1:46.

I mean, honestly, when you're talking about the best of the best in damn near every measurable category, it's clearly men that sit at the top, but we're supposed to ignore that. And for what? If you ask me, men and women are -not- equal, and they never were meant to be.
 RAMPERBILL
Joined: 2/16/2010
Msg: 183
Feminism Your Views
Posted: 4/10/2012 9:36:38 AM
I'm not saying there are no glass ceilings anywhere... but they are the exception, not the rule.
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Listening to the complaints, you'd think all of these women proclaiming feminism were in highly paid professions, yet getting lower pay. I don't hear this at all in real life, just on TV or on these boards.

Truth be known, when I do hear it is more related to the family unit. It isn't about the boss or the business, but more about a man, any man. It's like they're angry at men. You'd think that men saying "I can't change your situation, but I'm all for ya" would've ended this thread a long time ago. It didn't and never will. IMO equal pay isn't the real issue. I asked repeatedly a couple of pages ago what more did they want when it was said the fight would continue. Without a response, I can only guess that they don't know what they want, they just like to ****.
 --Zen--
Joined: 6/29/2011
Msg: 184
Feminism Your Views
Posted: 4/10/2012 9:53:57 AM
It's a lot like masturbating, isn't it??

It is. If fact forums are the definition of social masturbation. So is facebook actually. haha We're all in this together, might as well make it pleasant.

but I digress. Feminism is evil and I don't like it! There.
 southernebella
Joined: 3/21/2012
Msg: 185
Feminism Your Views
Posted: 4/10/2012 10:04:01 AM
Feminism is illl practice one of the causes for USA having the highest divorce rate in the world and is the reason why men are leaving USA to live Mary women from across the Atlantic abd not leaving then this is true
 chameleonf
Joined: 12/22/2008
Msg: 186
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History
Feminism Your Views
Posted: 4/10/2012 10:07:22 AM
I think present day feminism is more about maintaining the progress that was made by those who pushed for equality in the past when it was gravely needed. Given what I hear about some of the political platforms in the States this year, it would appear that there's a desire to force women to go backwards. How about we abolish human rights legislation in North America and see if there isn't a backslide to stepping all over people unjustly again? To say that maintaining feminism is no longer a requirement is simply wrong for the same reason it would be wrong to abolish human rights legislation. I agree that men can get stomped all over in court when it comes to divorce and child custody battles and that's where a lot of the feminism bashing comes from. However, if such is the case, doesn't it stand to reason then that men should be campaigning to change that situation as strongly as women did in the past to be able to get what they wanted? All I see is a whole bunch of complaining by men and not a lot of actively going out there to make change with respect to the court system that has caused them to tar and feather every woman under the guise of "those big meany feminists".
 licoricecat_1
Joined: 11/23/2008
Msg: 187
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Feminism Your Views
Posted: 4/10/2012 10:13:38 AM
I like to be treated like a woman, chivalry, respectful, dress up like a woman, etc. However, if I do the same job as a man, I expect to be paid the same amount. That is only fair...
 Silverhawk_tkn
Joined: 12/3/2010
Msg: 188
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Feminism Your Views
Posted: 4/10/2012 10:48:14 AM

All I see is a whole bunch of complaining by men and not a lot of actively going out there to make change with respect to the court system


....its just not worth the time and the effort. It is much easier to just walk away and concentrate efforts on avoiding the effects.

The flip side of this whole situation is you have women that start threads like "why won't men commit to relationships?" and "why do men not want to marry?" We are much better off walking away from these situations then getting burned over and over again.......

I do blame feminism for some of this for sure. I'm not complaining. I just have to work harder to avoid all the pitfalls associated with a feminist society.
 Capn_America
Joined: 10/6/2011
Msg: 189
Feminism Your Views
Posted: 4/10/2012 10:49:14 AM
It is. If fact forums are the definition of social masturbation. So is facebook actually. haha We're all in this together, might as well make it pleasant


LMAO It's a very good comparison. Although I'm not sure its accurate, I think it would be more like auto-flagellation. Remember those 2 old guys on the balcony in the openning title of the Muppet Show?
"Why do we always come here
I guess we'll never know
It's like some kind of torture
To stay and watch the show!"

That's my take on the forums LOL

but I digress. Feminism is evil and I don't like it! There


Well, I wouldnt go that far. But there's a lot of people, including women (mostly the ones WITH the high paying high salary jobs) that think like you do.
 chameleonf
Joined: 12/22/2008
Msg: 190
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Feminism Your Views
Posted: 4/10/2012 11:08:57 AM
I do blame feminism for some of this for sure. I'm not complaining. I just have to work harder to avoid all the pitfalls associated with a feminist society.

I hear where you're coming from because I do agree that men get shafted too often, however, it takes people who have been burned in the past to make a change for people in the future - which is what the original feminists did for women. Would you not like to see your son not have the potential to be burned in the same way you perceive yourself to have been? The squeaky wheel most often is the one that gets greased - how do you think some of the stupid laws get passed that do? People with a cause do something about it instead of avoiding it because it's "too much work."
 cubanguy
Joined: 8/1/2007
Msg: 191
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Feminism Your Views
Posted: 4/10/2012 11:23:30 AM
Ref msg 200:

Your coment is the diference between equality feminism and gender feminism.
The first one - most men agree with- is about equal standing and posibilities, for both men and women, from a range of choices.
The second one - and the prevalent mainstream- is about advantages and benefits for, exclusively, women.
Feminism at its core never meant to be a women vs men issue... it was: for men, their rigths; for women, theirs.
Gender feminism, which took over in practice as a distortion of the original idea... is about the destruction of the nuclear family, abolishing marriage, demonizing men, dispossable fathers, legalization of misandry and... this eternal confrontations not only in the forums but, in every day´s life.
Fortunaly, the new generation, and the so-called third wave seta distance and the dissociation from NOW and the SCUM Manifesto.
 CharityTrue
Joined: 11/15/2011
Msg: 192
Feminism Your Views
Posted: 4/10/2012 11:46:36 AM

Your coment is the diference between equality feminism and gender feminism.
The first one - most men agree with- is about equal standing and posibilities, for both men and women, from a range of choices.
The second one - and the prevalent mainstream- is about advantages and benefits for, exclusively, women.
Feminism at its core never meant to be a women vs men issue... it was: for men, their rigths; for women, theirs.
Gender feminism, which took over in practice as a distortion of the original idea... is about the destruction of the nuclear family, abolishing marriage, demonizing men, dispossable fathers, legalization of misandry and... this eternal confrontations not only in the forums but, in every day´s life.
Fortunaly, the new generation, and the so-called third wave set and dissociation from NOW and the SCUM Manifesto.

good post generally agree with root, silver-whatever and a few others...

does anyone find it strange that the push for female equality manifests itself as a somewhat pathetic emulation of a "man"...
a woman who curses, drinks and fights like a man is a poor excuse/example for either sex...
Why doesn't the feminist agenda embrace womanhood, instead of trying to do what men do as the yardstick of judging it's success... It's ridiculous.
Imagine men, fighting for the right to have babies, maternity leave staying at home to raise children, expecting women to willingly give up roles they've done a good job at (since forever) in order to advance men's rights to bear children and stay home... these men would be considered ridiculous as they are fighting against nature....
Why is it that a feminist woman only feels worthy or respected when judged against a man by male standards in a male-dominated environment? What's so wrong with being a woman? Why is being a traditional woman ignored at best, ridiculed at worst?
Women are best at being women and men are best at being men, there are anomalies, which by all means if you're a chap who wants to work with children or in a hair salon, God bless you, conversely if you're a chick who wants to work on a building site or be a plumber, go for it! no-one is stooping you, if they are; rage and sue, no-one cares, do YOU... But for many of us, the traditions of the past had some merit and deserve to be preserved, those who carry on with them, are happier... I think much of feminisms aims are out-of-date now, and the agenda is nefarious.
People are blind to their own destruction... this coming generation, has had it... Job done, social engineering...
 motown_cowgirl
Joined: 12/22/2011
Msg: 193
Feminism Your Views
Posted: 4/10/2012 11:50:31 AM
Listening to the complaints, you'd think all of these women proclaiming feminism were in highly paid professions, yet getting lower pay. I don't hear this at all in real life, just on TV or on these boards.

That's because you are hearing the noise of a bunch of complainers, but people out working in real life and getting paid for their actual performance have nothing to b1tch about. They are too busy making things happen for themselves; they just became the silent majority.


Truth be known, when I do hear it is more related to the family unit. It isn't about the boss or the business, but more about a man, any man. It's like they're angry at men.

Yep, some women out there are definitely angry at men. Some of them even use feminism as a weapon. In which case you can't blame men for perceiving feminism in the manner in which certain women intended to portray it. Some women generalize because their own relationships have a history of sucking so badly. And the worse they say it is…. the more it is somebody else’s fault…. ever notice that? 5000 years of oppression!!!! Hear me roar!!!!! Shut up, it's the 21st century. (My mother went through this after her divorce. I got tired of hearing her “all men suck” broken record statements. Thankfully, she eventually got over it. Now she just thinks most of them suck, haha!) Quite frankly, this says a lot more about what's become chronic in someone's personal life, than says anything about feminism. Of course, there are just as many men who are angry about women and use "feminism" as a foil for their consistently unsatisfactory relationships, so that's a sword that cuts both ways.

Whatever. I can’t help it if some people never learned how to think clearly and solve their own problems.


Without a response, I can only guess that they don't know what they want, they just like to ****.

I’d agree w/ you there, but somehow I don’t think women have completely cornered gender bashing as an art form.
 Meems919
Joined: 2/16/2012
Msg: 194
Feminism Your Views
Posted: 4/10/2012 12:03:54 PM
google Ashley Judd, puffy face. You'll find it interesting reading, and right on.
 RAMPERBILL
Joined: 2/16/2010
Msg: 195
Feminism Your Views
Posted: 4/10/2012 12:09:47 PM
And the worse they say it is…. the more it is always somebody else’s fault…. ever notice that?
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Yep. I've been watching that for awhile. Unfortunately, I really believe they don't even realize how hateful they sound. The most obvious I read first described men of past as being totalitarian dictators who subjugated women to meanial lives, then said "Turnabout is fair play, eh." Then in the next breath (same post, next sentence) said something along the lines of being equal. We would be if I was a man from her past.
 Mr_Celibate
Joined: 2/16/2012
Msg: 196
Feminism Your Views
Posted: 4/10/2012 12:12:35 PM
From Jac the Gripper:
Okay Mr.Cule, fair point.
You use your intellectual abilities and tell me what facts have been stated by Root and I'll research them.
Deal?

Great, want to be my research assistant? ; )

Check out Aaron Russo on this youtube clip and other related clips:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NN05DHO9bJw

Other information but related:

http://www.acts1711.com/sanger.htm

Don't underestimate the influence of the early 20th century social engineers. Massive amounts of funds were directed towards groups and individuals that suited the "progressive" agenda. Media and academia were certainly complicit.

Alfred Kinsey was another part of the social engineering equation relating to much of what is discussed on POF:

http://www.drjudithreisman.com/archives/2011/02/was_americas_in.html

I hope you do have time to look into this. It's just a question of how far down the rabbit hole you want to go.
 DameWrite
Joined: 2/27/2010
Msg: 197
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History
Feminism Your Views
Posted: 4/10/2012 12:12:39 PM
Research it yourself then get back to us.
Does that answer your "one or the other" so called question?
 Silverhawk_tkn
Joined: 12/3/2010
Msg: 198
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History
Feminism Your Views
Posted: 4/10/2012 12:30:46 PM
Would you not like to see your son not have the potential to be burned in the same way you perceive yourself to have been?


Absolutely. But at this point, I think the effort would be massive and require resources far beyond what any one individual could provide. It will take a significant political movement to change what has already been done.

That said, I still think the best way is to turn away and avoid, and this is what I'll be teaching my son.

Alternatively, like I mentioned in my other post, he may be ok being a passive male like so many young males in the younger generations seem to be these days. Maybe he'll be able to ride the coat-tails of some influential and successful woman. Sure, she may dump on him at some point, but at least he'll be looked after.....lol...he'll become the "Mancess" chock full of entitlement and attitude.......OMFG what a role reversal......I'm turning over in my grave at the thought of that and I haven't even died yet.........lol...........

While I'm on a roll......how about a show entitled "Househusbands of Orange County".....or "Househusbands of Beverly Hills"..........OMG.........
 CharityTrue
Joined: 11/15/2011
Msg: 199
Feminism Your Views
Posted: 4/10/2012 12:33:14 PM
Hey Mr. Cule, ever check out the Margaret Sanger Planned (cough, genocide, cough!), sorry, Parenthood links?
Oh, the plans they have for us....

223

That said, I still think the best way is to turn away and avoid, and this is what I'll be teaching my son.

Exactly what I am teaching mine...
 chameleonf
Joined: 12/22/2008
Msg: 200
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History
Feminism Your Views
Posted: 4/10/2012 12:51:02 PM
But at this point, I think the effort would be massive and require resources far beyond what any one individual could provide. It will take a significant political movement to change what has already been done.

Which, again, is what the original feminist movement was all about. It wasn't any one individual doing something about what they perceived to be concerns of unfairness to them. I see a whole lot of men either perceiving to be treated unfairly or actually being treated unfairly. Instead of doing something about it as a group, they continue to just complain, which would continue the cycle of being treated unfairly or to be incredibly self-centered.

Alternatively, like I mentioned in my other post, he may be ok being a passive male like so many young males in the younger generations seem to be these days.

Strange that you see it that way. I don't. I have both an adult male and and adult female child and what I see is more of a sense of fair play in how they go about things. I don't see male or female entitlement from them or the majority of their friends (yes, there are still a few throw backs because of what some of their complaining parents have taught them, but they are few). What I do see is the ability of both genders to realize that life isn't and shouldn't be based on a gender role. They are building their lives together based on each of their strengths and having the common sense to see from the mistakes of past generations where there were strict gender roles that they accomplish more together instead of one saying, "Protect me cuz I'm a weak kneed female who doesn't have a thought unless you tell me I do," and the other saying, "Do as I say and remain in a role because I'm a man and I said so." What you are suggesting your son does only continues a cycle for the "me" generation to perpetuate itself.
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