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 try1more
Joined: 12/16/2007
Msg: 76
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god .... its all in your head say scientists Page 4 of 11    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11)
religious, atheist two sides of the same coin.
nutters the both of em!
whether it does exist or not i don't see what there is to argue about!
you could have a priest and an atheist in the wilderness die of dehydration in spite of having spades and knowing there is water just a few feet down, simply because they would be too busy fighting over the shape a well should be, one saying it should be square the other round.

both sides claiming their belief demonstrates their level of intelligence.
i think their right, but it's long since it was a source of amusement.
good cure for insomnia though :-)
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 77
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god .... its all in your head say scientists
Posted: 4/29/2012 1:50:50 PM

religious, atheist two sides of the same coin.
nutters the both of em!

Bollux. (With all due respect!)
Show me a country where atheists are killing people for their beliefs...?
(And I don't mean in the past, like Russia did!)

whether it does exist or not i don't see what there is to argue about!

Maybe you should take a look at what's happening in Afghanistan, Israel, Bharain, Syria, Lybia, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, or even Northern Ireland, and then tell me that atheists and religious people are all the same.

you could have a priest and an atheist in the wilderness die of dehydration in spite of having spades and knowing there is water just a few feet down, simply because they would be too busy fighting over the shape a well should be, one saying it should be square the other round.

All deeply philosophical, but completely removed from reality.
It's only religious belief which compels people to die for their beliefs, as in the case of the ban on contraceptives, for "catholics" in high AID's areas of Africa.
The pope would rather people died, than use condoms to prevent the spread of the disease.
Jehova's witnesses ban blood transfusions, etc.
And a muslim would rather starve, than eat pork, the same with Hindus and beef.
"kosher", Halal", they all have strict requirements.
In your scenario, the religious person probably couldn't drink the water, because it hadn't been "blessed" in the right way.
Also, religion, and a belief in "god" encourages "martyrdom", it's part of their 'culture'.
There simply is no comparable belief for atheists.
Which is why your statement is "BOLLUX"
 Imdavex
Joined: 9/26/2011
Msg: 78
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god .... its all in your head say scientists
Posted: 4/29/2012 2:30:43 PM
Why do Adam and Eve have belly buttons?

Dwight if evolution is a fairytale why are the doors on old churches much smaller than the doors of today?

When will the world finally realise than religion is a scam and move on!
 RobinsonMJ
Joined: 9/12/2010
Msg: 79
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god .... its all in your head say scientists
Posted: 4/29/2012 3:22:55 PM
Most people today know more about the world and how it works than Planck, Mendel, Faraday, Pascal, Newton, Descartes, Galilei, Kepler, Bacon and Copernicus, you know?

These people were Great Thinkers because they broke the boundaries of Human thought *in their day*.

Notwithstanding the fact that your point is one of Socrates logical fallacies: argumentum verecundiam :).
 SGB2012
Joined: 1/2/2012
Msg: 80
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god .... its all in your head say scientists
Posted: 4/29/2012 3:26:29 PM

Because evolution based on mainly created ''facts'' . Are there any ''real'' facts to back up the main points of the evolution stories ?


Aside from DNA, fossils and empirical observation you mean?

You know... science.
 RobinsonMJ
Joined: 9/12/2010
Msg: 81
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god .... its all in your head say scientists
Posted: 4/29/2012 3:32:41 PM
It isn't a non sequitur. It's a fact. Newton knew **** all compared to physicists of today. His intellect was limited by the culture, history and knowledge around in his day. But worse than this, you don't know anything yourself, which is why you cannot accept the point.
 SwanSpirit
Joined: 10/30/2008
Msg: 82
god .... its all in your head say scientists
Posted: 4/29/2012 3:38:07 PM

religious, atheist two sides of the same coin.
nutters the both of em!


Agreed.


This isn't even a discussion about "god" anymore and is just another platform for some people to preach and tell others what they should or shouldn't believe (which is an aspect of man-made religion that I disagree with... not that everyone who has faith, feels a need to believe blindly and do everything they're told to do)


Ironic isn't it.
 Lusipher
Joined: 9/7/2010
Msg: 83
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god .... its all in your head say scientists
Posted: 4/29/2012 3:50:28 PM
It's ridiculous that this can't be an open discussion - especially as neither side knows 100% if they're right or wrong - and instead just turns into a competition about who can shout the loudest and piss the furthest.

I really do like talking about the idea of some omnipotent cosmic entity (let's call it god) even though I don't believe in it. I used to have this type of chat with my chaplain at school and we all joined in... Believers and non-believers, because it was interesting and encouraged us to open our minds.

Whereas this, is just getting fvcking retarded.

I have no problem with people who believe who don't force their beliefs on others. The same goes for non-believers.

When you get the hardcore types who cannot even accept the faintest of faint possibilities that they might be wrong, then this just becomes an incredibly pointless argument.

This isn't even a discussion about "god" anymore and is just another platform for some people to preach and tell others what they should or shouldn't believe (which is an aspect of man-made religion that I disagree with... not that everyone who has faith, feels a need to believe blindly and do everything they're told to do)

Vvvvvvvv

It probably is a bit unlikely that if "god" exists that it will be a bearded old man sitting in the clouds.... but when I talk about the possibility of god, that's not the image I have - I've already said, that I would imagine it to be a cosmic architect.

Of course it and everything in existence, could all just be a construct of the mind.... There's no way to know (not that the hardcore types on either side, seem able to grasp that)

I like science. I was never any good at it, but I appreciate what it has done for us and the new, fascinating discoveries it makes. It makes far more sense to me, than having faith in some all powerful entity... So it choose to believe that - I'm just well aware, that it might not be the whole truth.

I find it a bit strange, that any scientists would try so hard to debunk something, that CANNOT be disproved.
 *rem*
Joined: 11/5/2008
Msg: 84
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god .... its all in your head say scientists
Posted: 4/29/2012 3:53:22 PM

As some people have said, surely science should be focusing on discovering new things and exploring new realms, rather than trying to disprove something which cannot be disproved or mock people who have faith in god/religion

They are. As you mentioned the LHC, the big fear (apart from blowing half the world up) was black holes and what could come here through them. Atomic bombs did the same thing back in the 40's, so theres plenty of doscovering going into new realms. In my opinion the big problem is the old white man sitting on a cloud image. Times have changed.
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 85
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god .... its all in your head say scientists
Posted: 4/29/2012 4:15:28 PM

Agreed.

And yet here you both are,
you and light star,
posting on the same thread, claiming that you are the only one who is "right".?
Just what is it exactly which separates you, from the "nutters"..?
Are atheists hanging homosexuals, anywhere..?
Are atheists shooting abortion doctors..?
Bombing buildings, performing circumcision on young girls, and baby boys...?
Do atheists demand the "right" to pray, or dress in a certain way..?
Do atheists burn other religions books...? bibles..? korans..?
Do atheists steal countries, and exile the inhabitants, because "god gave them the land"..?
Do atheists knock on doors, or send "missionaries" overseas, to "convert" people..?

If the answer to any of those is "no", then please explain how we are "nutters"...?




Audax, you have excelled yourself!

So Jo Van, the likes of Nicholas Copernicus, Francis Bacon, Johannes Kepler, Galileo Galilei, Rene Descartes, Blaise Pascal, Isaac Newton, Michael Faraday, Gregor Mendel, Max Planck,.........etc, etc, etc are also stupid because they believed in God and you are far more intelligent ?

Is a truly ridiculous question.
As Robinson has pointed out, they were all in the past. Darwin himself was religious.
Nothing to do with "intelligence", just information, we know so much more now, than they did, then.

I have never claimed any intelligence, I merely pointed out that most scientists are atheists.
And that belief in "sky-daddies" correlates with lower intelligence, and atheism, with higher.
Which IS true.
 SwanSpirit
Joined: 10/30/2008
Msg: 86
god .... its all in your head say scientists
Posted: 4/29/2012 4:27:23 PM

And yet here you both are,
you and light star,
posting on the same thread, claiming that you are the only one who is "right".?


Was that to me Jo? If so where on this thread have I claimed I am the only one who is right? The only opinion I have stated is about this thread itself; that the people so unceremoniously evangelical about their beliefs on here are as much the atheists as anyone else which has had me laughing at the irony. Thanks for the laugh Jo. :-) x
 *rem*
Joined: 11/5/2008
Msg: 87
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god .... its all in your head say scientists
Posted: 4/29/2012 4:34:19 PM

I find it a bit strange, that any scientists would try so hard to debunk something, that CANNOT be disproved.

I think they know plenty. We (egyptians etc) seemed to be doing ok up to a few thousand years ago then... nothing.
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 88
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god .... its all in your head say scientists
Posted: 4/29/2012 4:41:47 PM
Was that to me Jo? If so where on this thread have I claimed I am the only one who is right?

If both the atheists, and the religious are "nutters",
then clearly, you seem to think that only people like your very correct selves, who are neither, are not.
Is that too difficult for you to understand..?

HOW does objecting to all the religious wars, Afghanistan Iraq, Iran, Israel, etc etc. make me a "nutter"...?
How does pointing out that there are 4,000 different religions, and hundreds of different versions of "god", who all strangely claim they are the only "true" religion make me a nutter..?

Would I be more "sane" if I simply ignored all of that..?

I think you should re-think.
Religions are killing us.
Atheists aren't.



Edit:
VVV

I am no more into organised religion than you are however I respect that those who believe in it have a right to be heard without being branded stupid.

And yet you thought it ok to "brand" both atheists, and the religious, as "nutters"...?

 SwanSpirit
Joined: 10/30/2008
Msg: 89
god .... its all in your head say scientists
Posted: 4/29/2012 4:55:47 PM
I am re-thinking .. that I'm off to bed as sleep will be more interesting than carrying on this convo. Jo I respect your views for what they are, your views, however you don't seem to be able to do the same to anyone else which makes any discussion with you pointless, that was my whole point. I am no more into organised religion than you are however I respect that those who believe in it have a right to be heard without being branded stupid.

Edit:
You're not nutters for believing in atheism or religion, you're nutters for continuing to pointlessly argue with each other.
 CharityTrue
Joined: 11/15/2011
Msg: 90
god .... its all in your head say scientists
Posted: 4/29/2012 4:56:12 PM
Does being an atheist mean that you don't accept any spiritual reality, or just a non-belief in any "God"?
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 91
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god .... its all in your head say scientists
Posted: 4/29/2012 5:19:27 PM
Does being an atheist mean that you don't accept any spiritual reality, or just a non-belief in any "God"?

There are no rules.
That's one of the really cool things about it.
Oooh And the barbeques.....

It depends what you mean by "spiritual". It's one of those vague, ill-defined words.

If you mean does it prevent me from appreciating the true beauty and magnificence of nature, which surrounds me on a daily basis, then no.
And I love art, and music, science, great literature, poetry, philosophy, and comedy...
I am sympathetic to the human condition, I'm fully capable of both experiencing, and feeling love, and pain, attraction, and repulsion, in it's many forms.
I'm a fckin atheist, I'm not autistic!


Edit: VVV
I've gotta go to bed!

I'm talking about do you acknowledge a sphere of reality beyond your 5 senses, or not?

There is definitely "stuff" we don't yet know, or know about.
But it's not "god".
We have no sense for lots of things which we already know are there: radio waves, radiation, various particles, etc etc.
We're still learning, I'm not at all smug, about what we know.
But there's no need to turn to superstitions, to try and explain it.

Night.
 CharityTrue
Joined: 11/15/2011
Msg: 92
god .... its all in your head say scientists
Posted: 4/29/2012 5:39:02 PM
My son has a form of autism...
I'm talking about do you acknowledge a sphere of reality beyond your 5 senses, or not?
 day-trader
Joined: 2/22/2012
Msg: 93
god .... its all in your head say scientists
Posted: 4/29/2012 5:55:43 PM
The good looking woman in the green top posted this:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/right-brain-v-left-brain/story-e6frf7jo-1111114603615

The dancer spins clockwise for me although I don't have any spiritual experiences, saying that I do remember that time when I drunk a bottle of aftershock and felt like I was flying.
Spooky god stuff!
 lightstar1
Joined: 2/21/2012
Msg: 94
god .... its all in your head say scientists
Posted: 4/30/2012 1:23:22 AM
Msg 92 - Thank you for your enlightened observation of my comment.
I have revisited that post, and at no point in time do I claim to be 'right' -
merely expressing an opinion in the hope of adding to the ongoing discussion, which, as far as I am concerned, is what Forum is (partially) about.

 billywambam
Joined: 4/9/2012
Msg: 95
god .... its all in your head say scientists
Posted: 4/30/2012 5:21:57 AM
see.nobody can realy prove if there is a god or not.? alot these super intelligent scientists and physicists say that all the universe and the miracle of life in it started from a big bang.? but what or whom started this big bang.? a build up of gases and particiles some of them say.but surely if nothing existed before this big bang.then who made the particles and gases.etc that started the big bang.i just cant get my head around that in the begining there was a nowt.then a bang.then planets and stars.then little germs that turned into creatures.that eventualy evolved into intelligent life forms and animals and super intelligent humans that can fly to the moon and create spage age type technology.etc and on top of this we still have the miracle of nature and others things that cannot be explained proper .and all of this came from nowt.? now i think everyone has a right to a opinion on this without resorting to insults and name calling.athiests and god believers.but me personaly.im still not convinced by all this scientific talk that life came from nothing.but i doubt there will ever be definite proof from either camps if there is a god or not.
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 96
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god .... its all in your head say scientists
Posted: 4/30/2012 6:26:55 AM

Msg 92 - Thank you for your enlightened observation of my comment.
I have revisited that post, and at no point in time do I claim to be 'right' -

You said:
religious, atheist two sides of the same coin.
nutters the both of em!
whether it does exist or not i don't see what there is to argue about!

If you "don't see what there is to argue about", wouldn't it just be better to just not post..?
Rather than coming onto a thread and describing those who do see something to debate, as "nutters"..?
Do you not consider that an insult..?

merely expressing an opinion in the hope of adding to the ongoing discussion, which, as far as I am concerned, is what Forum is (partially) about.

Yes, that is what it's about.
So why describe those who do exactly that, who contribute to the debate, because they have an interest in it, as "nutters"..?
Did you include your own contributions, in that 'definition', or does it only apply to others..?


Msg: 96, Swannie:Edit:
You're not nutters for believing in atheism or religion, you're nutters for continuing to pointlessly argue with each other.

I could bore you with a long list of threads I think are "pointless", where people bleat endlessly about lack of replies, photos, or the lack thereof. I may occasionally post in them.
But you won't find me describing the participants as "nutters", (even if I may think that! ), because that would just be an insult, and I'd be doing 'time' for it.

Science didn't set out, to "disprove religion".
They search for facts.
It was this search, which revealed that the earth wasn't at "the center of the universe",
that the universe didn't revolve around the earth, as the bible had said, and as had always been believed.
The church forced Galileo to 'recant', under threat of death.

When Darwin conceived his ideas, about evolution, he didn't "believe" them at first, because they contradicted his religious beliefs, about "creation".

Science has since discovered the exact age of the earth, the universe, and other interesting facts, which have also contradicted religious myths about the age of the earth, and "creation".

I'm not claiming that people who believe are "stupid", or lack intelligence.
Clearly qualified Barristers like the Blairs, can't be "stupid". (In the conventional sense! OK., - bad example!)

But statistically, the higher your intelligence, the less likely you will be to believe in "god".
It doesn't exclude the possibility that you could be a total genius, and still believe in "god"!!

These are the beliefs of neolithic farmers from the bronze age!
Which have been perpetuated by their "sacred texts". And oppression.

I find it enormously ignorant, and insulting, to suggest that anyone who dares to "disrespect" these already discredited beliefs, as a "nutter".

If you don't think the existence of "god", or the veracity of religions, are worth debating,
then stay out of it, and stick to discussing other topics of earth-shattering importance, like messages, moles, photo's, or snogging.

In a sense, ALL debates/discussions here, are "pointless".
I feel this subject to be 'less pointless' than some others, but that's JMO., and it doesn't make me a "nutter".

Religion is the huge "elephant in the room". It causes endless problems.
People whine about "new religions" coming here, and "diluting our culture".
The BNP, the EDL., etc etc. usually, whilst ironically waving a 'cross of St George'!
Christianity came from the exact same place, as Islam, and Judaism.
And "christians" here, also encourage and champion the spread of Islam here.

If nuclear war ever breaks out, THAT'S where it will happen. In "The Holy Land".
Because all three "harmless" religious beliefs, have been killing people there, (and here, and elsewhere) for centuries!
And all because "god" tells them to.

Billywambam: Read "A Brief History of Time" by Stephen Hawking.
It's in all good charity shops, now!
It may not answer all your questions, but it's a good start.
 Lusipher
Joined: 9/7/2010
Msg: 97
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god .... its all in your head say scientists
Posted: 4/30/2012 6:43:28 AM
@msg 102

I agree that it can't be proven either way, but you have the hardcore believers who believe so hard that they oppose anyone who dares to dispute their beliefs and then you have the hardcore atheists, who claim that their facts disprove the idea of a god.

Obviously, there is a chance that either or both parties have got it wrong, but they just don't want to accept that and will continue to come out with stuff to back up their claims/destroy others.

I don't even know why it keeps coming back to religion, as this is meant to be a discussion about "god" - whereas religion is a construct of humanity... which is why all the things some people blame on religion, I would rather see mankind take responsibility for.

There are other possibilities of how existence came to be, or if it is even happening... but the hardcore types in both camps, will just chose to ignore them because they know they are unable to disprove them and will instead just stick to slating people who don't believe as they do (admittedly, this is also something I have been guilty of doing in the past... I try not to anymore)
 CharityTrue
Joined: 11/15/2011
Msg: 98
god .... its all in your head say scientists
Posted: 4/30/2012 7:34:34 AM

see.nobody can realy prove if there is a god or not.? alot these super intelligent scientists and physicists say that all the universe and the miracle of life in it started from a big bang.? but what or whom started this big bang.? a build up of gases and particiles some of them say.but surely if nothing existed before this big bang.then who made the particles and gases.etc that started the big bang.i just cant get my head around that in the begining there was a nowt.then a bang.then planets and stars.then little germs that turned into creatures.that eventualy evolved into intelligent life forms and animals and super intelligent humans that can fly to the moon and create spage age type technology.etc and on top of this we still have the miracle of nature and others things that cannot be explained proper .and all of this came from nowt.? now i think everyone has a right to a opinion on this without resorting to insults and name calling.athiests and god believers.but me personaly.im still not convinced by all this scientific talk that life came from nothing.but i doubt there will ever be definite proof from either camps if there is a god or not.

simply, but eloquently put billywambam...

If you put that to a small child, they would laugh at you and think you silly...
Everything on earth, mummy and daddy, flowers, trees, whales, volcanoes, cars and spaceships, life, truth, justice, honesty, honour, love, hatred, war, death, genocide, fear all came from.... NOTHING???....
and they call us the fantasists...lol...
 SwanSpirit
Joined: 10/30/2008
Msg: 99
god .... its all in your head say scientists
Posted: 4/30/2012 7:46:03 AM
JoVan it wasn't even Lightstar who said that .. it was Try1more ... who btw has a sense of humour that I share which was why I agreed ... see I wasn't condemming everyone for their beliefs I was sharing the humour.



see.nobody can realy prove if there is a god or not.? alot these super intelligent scientists and physicists say that all the universe and the miracle of life in it started from a big bang.? but what or whom started this big bang.? a build up of gases and particiles some of them say.but surely if nothing existed before this big bang.then who made the particles and gases.etc that started the big bang.i just cant get my head around that in the begining there was a nowt.then a bang.then planets and stars.then little germs that turned into creatures.that eventualy evolved into intelligent life forms and animals and super intelligent humans that can fly to the moon and create spage age type technology.etc and on top of this we still have the miracle of nature and others things that cannot be explained proper .and all of this came from nowt.? now i think everyone has a right to a opinion on this without resorting to insults and name calling.athiests and god believers.but me personaly.im still not convinced by all this scientific talk that life came from nothing.but i doubt there will ever be definite proof from either camps if there is a god or not.


Well put Billy. I DO agree with that.
 lightstar1
Joined: 2/21/2012
Msg: 100
god .... its all in your head say scientists
Posted: 4/30/2012 7:53:34 AM
Msg 103 -

If you care to check back, the quote that you have attributed to me, which included the word 'nutters' is a direct lift from Post 103 by Try I More, which appears after mine.

- Just thought that I'd clear that one up.............

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