| | Formula 1Page 2 of 3 (1, 2, 3) | Pushrod engines and OHV engines were invented around the same time.
Calling one old fashioned doesnt work.
An ohv engine with some capacity and well designed heads can be as efficient as a ohc engine, and be cheaper to make, have a lower centre of gravity.
Plus torque down low. Something ricey egg beaters dont have.
Mazda won Le mans with no competition, pretty hollow.
GM and Ford are real car makers, they arent Japanese who just copy.
And anyway all racing series around the world now are basically silhouette series. DTM, Nascar.
Group A failed when manufacturers didnt want to spend the money on low buck homologation specials. | |
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Posted: 5/19/2012 1:03:25 PM | Hey frankie...............
You wrote:
"An ohv engine with some capacity and well designed heads can be as efficient as a ohc engine, and be cheaper to make, have a lower centre of gravity.
Plus torque down low. Something ricey egg beaters dont have."
Torque down low?? Huh??? Whether a motor has pushrods in a flathead configuration, or pushrods to an OHV configuration, or is OHC, or the cam is in the block, has NOTHING to do withlow end torque, or mid range torque.......... All that those different configurations do is control the valves........... WHEN the valves open and close, and a myriad of other things control wher the torque is most prevalent in a motor.................
You keep stating that "Japanese who just copy."
You really are misguided.................. I can tell you one thing, since you insist on slamming the Japanese for imgainable things........... The Japanese have more patents in hand, and in use, than the Australians do...............
Prove me wrong. I only said that because you keep on insisting that the Japanese have no original thought, are only copiers, etc...,, all of which is not true.
Paul K | |
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Posted: 5/19/2012 5:44:05 PM |
Prove me wrong. I only said that because you keep on insisting that the Japanese have no original thought, are only copiers, etc...,, all of which is not true.
I think get that idea, because of the way the culture is based.
In Asian coping a master is considered a compliment and is not only done but encouraged.
There is also a large economy that is based on copies and it is not just t-shirts and hand bags, it is everything, if you want it, in japan you can get a knock off of it.
China has takes it even a step further, they starting building it for the Americans and at the same times they will start building some for themselves.
The real interesting stuff is China auto industry where they have been coping cars since the 50's and up until 5 years ago they where pretty much a joke, but recently they have started to produce some decent cars and I would say in another 10 years there will be a Chinese car in the US market. | |
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Posted: 5/20/2012 2:31:34 AM | Hey star sprangled Yugo.
Well man all the engine builders Ive spoken to and manuals ive read state that there is nothing wrong with ohv motors. Especially in an engine with some capacity. Its basically just marketing that some makers use to make their ohc engines seem high tech.
Oh ffs, the Japanese are famous for copying, their styling is a pastiche of European and American styling ques.
They have only what... 2 classic cars, the Toyota 2000 GT and Datsun 240z, both designed by a European.
Why bring Australia into it? Im not Australian, and Aus has more classic cars anyway.
V-tec, san, revs to 9 thou, but no torque and sounds horrible.
Plus VVT, who invented that? Wasnt the Japs was it? | |
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Posted: 5/21/2012 12:29:19 PM | Hey frankster.......
I am only going to address on aspect of your post, and let the others just sort of go away..........
When you have a motor that is designed to run past about 8000 rpm, an OHC arrangement is always preferable. The reason for that is that an OHC arrngement has less mass in the valve train for the cam lobe to open and close, and therefore needs less strong valve springs, which rob less power.................
There are some perfectly good cam in block, OHV motors that make plenty of power, but and OHC arrangement will always be more efficient, and most times, have less moving parts.
Paul K | |
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Posted: 5/22/2012 12:56:24 AM | Hey Paulovic
Address what you like, its ok.
Ohc engines are physically larger, higher centre of gravity, and in an accident its more mass that can come through the firewall and do damage.
You are right there are/were plenty of good OHV engines, that can rev high.
Depends on the cylinder head design. | |
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Posted: 5/22/2012 10:55:36 AM | Frankie, baby........ (said with a thick New Jersey accent)....
Can you show me ONE OHV, cam in block motor that can rev past 10,000 rpm. Now, 10,000 rpm is not high at all in the realm of high performance....................
Can you show me ONE time a motor came through a firewall in an accident, and the reason it did so was because of the OHC arrangement. What you are forgetting is the rockers that are above the top of the valves, that make the engine as high, if not higher than an OHC motor..... Usually OHC motors have shorter valve stems too.
Upper rpm is limited by stroke length........ cam in block, ohv motors rpm is also limited by the extra mass of their valve train
Pavle K | |
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Posted: 5/22/2012 11:31:56 AM | Who would you like to see win this weekend at Monaco?
Personally, I would love to see Perez, or Kimi win, just to make it 6 winners in 6 races.
Paul K | |
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Posted: 5/22/2012 12:46:32 PM | How about putting Alexander Rossi, you know, the AMERICAN hot shoe, in Massa's seat? At least his name sounds Italian.....................
Pauolo | |
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Posted: 5/23/2012 10:20:55 AM | Hey Frankmeister........
I had an idea for track design for F-1 use. I was online at the F-1 site, and was looking at the map of Spa....... I was looking to see where the pit entrance and exits were, and had a novel idea......... What if they located the pit entrance and exit so that hardly anytime at all was lost during the average pit stop? All they would have to do is locate the exit further down the road, about 20 seconds or so in elapsed time of the average car, then the car going in the pits would not lose hardly any time.....................
That would place the race more in the hands of the drivers instead of the pit drones. What do you think?
Paul K | |
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Posted: 6/12/2012 10:09:15 PM | | ahhh, finally a forum subject I can really relate to. I miss F1 here in the states and am curious how it will go in Texas. Drove from Florida to Indy 2 times, had a blast. Any ALMS fans on here? | |
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Tah,
| | Joined: 11/18/2008
Msg: 37 | |
| Formula 1
Posted: 7/8/2012 5:43:48 PM | | wwwwwwwwweeeebbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbberrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr you bloody beauty...... | |
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Posted: 7/11/2012 10:42:53 AM | | was brilliant drive by all of em --considering they were on wet weather setting's | |
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Posted: 7/19/2012 4:06:39 AM | | Looking forward to this weekend shame the race is on Sky and not BBC all the way!!! | |
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Posted: 7/19/2012 10:46:01 AM | hi
Think ecclestone should be horse whipped for sellin out to sky ---any of teh countrys that host a F1 race should get the whole season of racing shown for free.
and they even thinkin of hostin 2 British prixs. lol for shame | |
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Tah,
| | Joined: 11/18/2008
Msg: 41 | |
| Formula 1
Posted: 7/23/2012 3:30:33 AM | | How crap did we think ferrari were? | |
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Posted: 7/24/2012 12:14:18 PM | hi
we didn't --ferrari have needed a diffuser since the beginning of the season,would appear they have said downforce now,coupled with argubly the best driver in the world =on the up.
trouble si the other teams will get new stuff to work with--so how long ferrari hold on to the gain's they have made is gonna be intresting. | |
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Posted: 12/18/2012 8:08:19 AM | | Formula One is the absolute pinnacle of 4-wheeled motorsports racing. | |
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Posted: 12/18/2012 11:47:21 AM | It was, but if they keep stuffing about with the rules and making them race on boring tracks then its in danger.
1.6 litre turbo engines? give us capacity...
No testing? let the big teams test all they want, will even it up.
Ah for the old days of Minardi, Alfa. | |
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Posted: 12/19/2012 10:28:23 AM | | The problem is costs. Not all the teams can afford the current rules. | |
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Posted: 1/14/2013 1:29:43 PM | I think the main reasons F1 isn't so big in the US, is probably because of the dominance of NASCAR, and because you didn't have the right kind of circuits, until now.
I must commend the people responsible for Circuit of the Americas. They seem to have got everything spot on, and it seems that they even thought outside of the box somewhat in F1 terms. I mean, that first corner looked crazy until the race started, then I was soon conviced that it was a stroke of genius. Looking back, Texas was one of the highlights of the season.
As for the teams, I'm mainly a McLaren fan, but I think Lotus are pretty cool, and I've been very impressed with Sauber this last season.
As for the drivers, I'm rooting for Hamilton every time, but I like to see Di Resta and Button do well too. (Yes, I'm a Brit).
I'm absolutely gutted that Hamilton has gone to Mercedes, and I hope that it works out a lot better than I am expecting... I mean A LOT better!
I haven't checked the press recently, but I do hope that Senna gets a place for next season. Anyone know what's happening with him? | |
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Posted: 1/16/2013 6:34:57 AM | | Got to agree with you there offbeatoptimist - some of the circuits that F1 raced at in the USA have been beyond awful, plus incidents like the Indy debacle in 2005 and the Dallas track melting in the heat in 1984 (plus I believe the promoter sodded off with the money) didn't help. There are plenty of great circuits in the USA (Road America, Laguna Seca, Watkins Glen to name but three) but for some reason they always seemed to race at piddling little street circuits. US race fans had seen Buddy Baker average 177.6mph at the 1980 Daytona 500: ten years later, Ayrton Senna averaged 90.8mph at Phoenix. No wonder it didn't catch on... Hopefully the CotA will help though! | |
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Posted: 1/16/2013 7:48:40 AM | LordGS, I do agree that Road America, Laguna & Watkins are great circuits, but they wouldn't make great F1 circuits IMO. Maybe with the exception of Road America, if the facilities were up to it, or upgraded.
Laguna is one of my favourite circuits on the MotoGP calendar, and great for 'muscle car' racing. I think it would be too dangerous for F1, I mean, a blind crest of a hill, followed by one of the trickiest braking zones in the world, followed by the corkscrew! Let's be realistic here! :D
Watkins, I'm not actually that familiar with it, but wouldn't it need huge investment? I thought it was like our own Oulton Park - great track, modest facilities. | |
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Posted: 1/16/2013 9:21:35 AM | | Yeah, a lot of tracks in the US wouldn't get licensed for a Formula 3 race in Europe... Still, Champ Cars produced some great races at Laguna and it'd be great to see an F1 car haring it round the Corkscrew! I can dream I guess :D | |
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Tah,
| | Joined: 11/18/2008
Msg: 50 | |
| Formula 1
Posted: 3/10/2013 6:16:31 PM | | round we go again | |
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