| | Degrees or notPage 4 of 6 (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6) | I always wanted to do an LL.B at Edinburgh Uni but was too thick as I needed 5 A's in 1 sitting and I didn't even take 5 highers in 2 sittings.
However I have my BA with Hons - nothing flashy - but it means a lot to me. Being a stay at home mum for 13 years it's easy to forget that you had a life before children and that you do have a brain that one day will be put to use again.
I do agree though that (as with intelligence quotients aswell) it only means that you can handle and process information (I can retain lots of information until it's needed and then proceed to forget it all - I did a dissertation on "a critical analysis of the role of Industrial Tribunals in Unfair Dismissal" but nowadays couldn't even tell you who presides over an Industrial Tribunal).
Processing information is all good but being able to put it to practical use is even better. My ex husband left school at 15 yet runs a successful business, employs staff and has managed to stay in business and even expand during a recession. I used to poke fun at him by having my degree certificate hanging next to his only "certificate" he had which was for a bungee jump! However he (because I was then a ft mum) was able to provide for his family (he was able to but chose not to but that's another story). | |
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Posted: 5/9/2012 2:35:36 AM | | That's not true mac. It is at GCE and A-Level, but at degree level it shows more that you're capable of independent learning and your dissertation (which usually determines whether you get honours or not) is an exercise in independent thinking. To be familiar enough with a subject at degree level to get a good result you need to have understanding, not just to have memorised a load of facts. The former gets a good grade, the latter not so much. | |
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Posted: 5/9/2012 2:45:11 AM | I've only had to dismiss 4 people in my career, coincidentally all graduates, great intelligence but pi$$ poor common sense.
I have often been asked if I'm a graduate, which I'm guessing is because of the way I deport myself and the way I speak, but am quick to correct the assumption  | |
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Posted: 5/9/2012 2:55:49 AM | I've only had to dismiss 4 people in my career, coincidentally all graduates, great intelligence but pi$$ poor common sense.
I can so empathise with that, where I work we take graduates every year.....very very intelligient but ask them to do a simple task and they fall apart, also when I worked on bakery we had a student who was soooo bright it was unreal but when it came to common sense it just didnt come cup in hand.
Your comment has proved what I say sooo much you cant have brains and have common sense too!!!!! | |
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Posted: 5/9/2012 3:00:26 AM |
I think showing your degree is a good thing as it show you've got a bit of intelligence about you, as well as knuckled down and acheived something.
I'm sorry but still i cannot agree with a single word of that. A degree shows that you are probably inqusitive, and at one stage in your life were diligent, disciplined and subsequently knowledgeable enough to attain a qualification that confirms this...but only in one field.
I have respect for anyone who has acheved this and in no way would i want to take anything away from it but how are you any more intelligent or hardworking than someone who laid bricks at 16 and spent twenty plus years building his own business? Those are the type of people i find inspiring, ambitious people who attained something without the benefit of a qualification that said they were "intelligent".
Higher education usually means that you are in a decent job or at the very least, capable of getting one.
Maybe twenty years ago. Nothing would please me more than my son getting an apprenticeship and learning a trade, i see this as a better future for him than higher education. | |
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Posted: 5/9/2012 3:06:26 AM | | Degree = syncronised drinking LMAO | |
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Posted: 5/9/2012 3:07:11 AM | Higher education usually means that you are in a decent job or at the very least, capable of getting one.
Not necessarily as woz has just said................my daughter has a degree in childcare too and yes she is working but theres lots still looking for work she was lucky as she got her job through word of mouth (her friend works there)...............why do I find her aspiring and why am I so proud of her...................because she is dyslexic and has worked so hard!!!
It depends what you want to do for a living at end of day............................ | |
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Posted: 5/9/2012 3:11:03 AM | Message 78
That's not true mac. It is at GCE and A-Level, but at degree level it shows more that you're capable of independent learning and your dissertation (which usually determines whether you get honours or not) is an exercise in independent thinking. To be familiar enough with a subject at degree level to get a good result you need to have understanding, not just to have memorised a load of facts. The former gets a good grade, the latter not so much.
Agree with all of that.
I would have thought too, that even at GCSE and A s, to achieve an A* you would have to show glimpses of independant thinking, and connecting of ideas.
I think as well that different disciplines require different skills, certainly my degree in study of religions was very much about how you think, and makes sense of ideas and phenomena, and place them into various contexts that might explain what was going on, of course you read and reference scholars work, but you have got to grapple with it yourself, and give your own take on it, or you do, if you want a good degree....
Having a degree does not down play all the other skills that people have, which all come about because of intelligence, getting a degree is one sort, understanding the workings of a combustion engine is another. One sort does not necessarily negate another, but it does show people who may think in a similar way to you , and some people may prefer that... | |
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Posted: 5/9/2012 4:09:12 AM | "why do people need to inflate their qualifications"
A lot of people define a person for what they do instead of who they are - a judgement based on what kind of job they have and what "qualifications" they have and how much money they earn.
So when you are writing a profile page for this looney bin for example - a lot of people seem to think its a good idea to inflate everything about themselves ( winking icon thingy )
Whether it be their qualifications, height, weight ( decrease it in this case lol ) bank balance or being a snow boarding bungy jumping champion when really they went down a dry skii slope once in their local leisure park!
Its all about appearing attractive and selling yourself.
I personally dont think having a degree or not makes you more or less attractive!
But pretending to be something your not is a very unattractive quality.
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Posted: 5/9/2012 4:09:23 AM | Inevitably in this sort of discussion views get polarized into academic versus common sense and the University of Life which is a bit crap really.
A good University education can introduce you to ways of thinking creatively or analytically about things that might take you a lot longer to develop otherwise.But that depends on firstly the course, secondly the institution and it's staff and thirdly on the individual student and what they want to get out of their education. To my mind , the very best thing that a degree gives you is the chance to be in an environment with other people, students and staff where you get to talk in depth about a subject . That discussion ( or argument !) , learning from each other and the paths it takes you down is integral to developing the ability to learn, understand and think critically.
I don't think anyone should denigrate a degree or graduates in a sweeping generalised way.I do however think that some people should be more aware that having a degree means NOTHING automatically about a person, just as not having one doesn't really tell you a whole lot about an individual.
vvvv edited to add
Also, someone with that level of education has been exposed to the notion of free thinking and rational thought, they tend to not blindly believe what they are told, they are do-ers rather than followers, skeptics rather than believers.
I think that's somewhat rose tinted! Many departments in many Universities are heavily biased or follow certain schools of thought which they tend to attempt to pass on to their students.Even down to individual lecturers....it's fairly common to not get good grades for assignments if you don't ascribe to their point of view. | |
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Posted: 5/9/2012 4:13:11 AM | I'm sorry but still i cannot agree with a single word of that. A degree shows that you are probably inqusitive, and at one stage in your life were diligent, disciplined and subsequently knowledgeable enough to attain a qualification that confirms this...but only in one field.
I have respect for anyone who has acheved this and in no way would i want to take anything away from it but how are you any more intelligent or hardworking than someone who laid bricks at 16 and spent twenty plus years building his own business? Those are the type of people i find inspiring, ambitious people who attained something without the benefit of a qualification that said they were "intelligent".
The most intelligent person I know has no formal qualification at all, is a builder by trade and a multi millionaire however he is a person with extremely good social skills (see other thread).
This does not change the fact that statistically it's shown that people with degrees tend to end up in higher paid jobs. Also, someone with that level of education has been exposed to the notion of free thinking and rational thought, they tend to not blindly believe what they are told, they are do-ers rather than followers, skeptics rather than believers. These are the sort of people that end up as managers or directors. These are the sort of people that create information for others to digest. | |
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Posted: 5/9/2012 4:42:25 AM |
This does not change the fact that statistically it's shown that people with degrees tend to end up in higher paid jobs
True. I think the elephant in the room here are the terminally thick, the Jeremy Kyle fan club who eat too many refined carbs and couldn't name the Prime minister. They are the ones we are all trying to avoid. Maybe a degree gives the best indication possible that your prospective date isn't a sufferer.
I say scrap the education section on profiles and make every member take a simplified IQ test | |
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| Degrees or not
Posted: 5/9/2012 5:31:39 AM | What is a Geoff from South Bank Poly worth compared to a Desmond from one of the Russel Group?
You can probably buy a degree from Borough Market these days! | |
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Posted: 5/9/2012 5:36:03 AM |
I say scrap the education section on profiles and make every member take a simplified IQ test
Nice idea..... But the forums would be empty!... 
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Posted: 5/9/2012 5:49:40 AM |
nevitably in this sort of discussion views get polarized into academic versus common sense and the University of Life which is a bit crap really.
A good University education can introduce you to ways of thinking creatively or analytically about things that might take you a lot longer to develop otherwise.But that depends on firstly the course, secondly the institution and it's staff and thirdly on the individual student and what they want to get out of their education. To my mind , the very best thing that a degree gives you is the chance to be in an environment with other people, students and staff where you get to talk in depth about a subject . That discussion ( or argument !) , learning from each other and the paths it takes you down is integral to developing the ability to learn, understand and think critically.
I don't think anyone should denigrate a degree or graduates in a sweeping generalised way.I do however think that some people should be more aware that having a degree means NOTHING automatically about a person, just as not having one doesn't really tell you a whole lot about an individual.
vvvv edited to add
Also, someone with that level of education has been exposed to the notion of free thinking and rational thought, they tend to not blindly believe what they are told, they are do-ers rather than followers, skeptics rather than believers.
I think that's somewhat rose tinted! Many departments in many Universities are heavily biased or follow certain schools of thought which they tend to attempt to pass on to their students.Even down to individual lecturers....it's fairly common to not get good grades for assignments if you don't ascribe to their point of view.
First you say that uni encourages analytical thinking, then you say that having a degree means nothing and then you go on to say that uni is biased. Don't beat around the bush or be apathetic, have your say and get your point across.
All I can say is the majority of people I know that have had university education are free thinkers, whereas the ones that haven't tend to believe what the BBC and public sector workers tell them. I'm not going to mention names but if you look at the posters on here that used canned left wing statements, 9 times out of 10 their education level is set to high school.
To ignore trends is to reject logical thought and perception. To create false statements for the purpose of emotional protection is to reject analytical thinking. To massage statistics for the purpose of equality or any other non-factual or non-variable is the acceptance of stupidity as a positive mental attribute. | |
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Posted: 5/9/2012 6:43:01 AM |
To ignore trends is to reject logical thought and perception. To create false statements for the purpose of emotional protection is to reject analytical thinking. To massage statistics for the purpose of equality or any other non-factual or non-variable is the acceptance of stupidity as a positive mental attribute. roll:
Dude, you can't just string a bunch of meaningless, slightly-longer-than-average words together, in some risible attempt to look clever, and then expect those of us, who do know our arses from our elbows, and understand the language, to keep schtum.
To ignore trends is to reject logical thought and perception.
Think about it. The exact opposite is true. Are you saying that all those without "asymmetrical haircuts", are "rejecting logic"...?
It's Absolute drivel!
To create false statements for the purpose of emotional protection is to reject analytical thinking.
(My bold)
I'll translate: You mean:"To HAVE to lie, to cover your arse".
Well, if you've put yourself in that position, in the first place, then clearly, there wasn't very much "analytical thinking", going on, in the first place.
Where are you getting this sh1t..>?
It's comedy gold! 
To massage statistics for the purpose of equality or any other non-factual or non-variable is the acceptance of stupidity as a positive mental attribute.
Now you're just rambling!
To massage statistics for the purpose of equality or any other non-factual or non-variable 
WTF does that even mean?
Who does that..?
How can you "massage the statistics of a non-variable"...?
How can something "non-factual" even have a statistic..?
It doesn't make any sense at all.
the acceptance of stupidity as a positive mental attribute.
I think you're speaking entirely from personal experience there.
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Posted: 5/9/2012 6:44:50 AM | I say scrap the education section on profiles and make every member take a simplified IQ test
Runs off to swot up.........hmmmmm lol | |
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Posted: 5/9/2012 6:51:08 AM | Dude, seriously?
Think about it. The exact opposite is true. Are you saying that all those without "asymmetrical haircuts", are "rejecting logic"...?
It's Absolute drivel!
Whoosh, think that pilot had an asymmetrical haircut too.
To create false statements for the purpose of emotional protection is to reject analytical thinking.
I'll translate: You mean:"To HAVE to lie, to cover your arse".
Well, if you've put yourself in that position, in the first place, then clearly, there wasn't very much "analytical thinking", going on, in the first place.
Where are you getting this sh1t..>?
Again, what has lieing and covering your arse got to do with analytical thinking, again I think you've misunderstood. How can I debate something with you if you don't understand the debate. It's like trying to teach a labour voter about economics, a lost course for want of a better word.
It's comedy gold!
I don't see anybody else laughing.
To massage statistics for the purpose of equality or any other non-factual or non-variable is the acceptance of stupidity as a positive mental attribute.
Now you're just rambling!
To massage statistics for the purpose of equality or any other non-factual or non-variable
WTF does that even mean?
Who does that..?
How can you "massage the statistics of a non-variable"...?
How can something "non-factual" even have a statistic..?
It doesn't make any sense at all.
There are many aspects of society where statistics have been massaged for the purpose of equality. There are many institutions that have abused the equality act and there are many individuals who have been unfairly treated in the name of equality.
There are plenty of statistics that utilise non-factual data, as a free thinker and a sceptic it's my perogative to call them out. | |
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Posted: 5/9/2012 6:57:55 AM | Jesus Christ, this is getting ridiculous.
@msg 91
Makes an excellent point.
All we are referring to is our perception of how intelligent we think other people are.
The only way we have of measuring intelligence is an IQ test. So without knowing that score, all we're doing is guessing and as we can see, quite often people are going to be biased towards/against certain that demographics.
Then again, if that gets implemented, everyone and their fvcking granny will have an IQ of 161 | |
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Posted: 5/9/2012 7:06:38 AM | Whoosh, think that pilot had an asymmetrical haircut too.
Well, why not try and explain.
You claimed that:
To ignore trends is to reject logical thought and perception.
Explain how that's true. I'm all ears.
Again, what has lieing and covering your arse got to do with analytical thinking, again I think you've misunderstood. How can I debate something with you if you don't understand the debate. It's like trying to teach a labour voter about economics, a lost course for want of a better word.
The "better word" would be "cause". And you ARE a lost one.
But I get it, you've been a day trader for "ten years", now.. 
Gotcha! 
There's no need for people to start getting ratty here.
There are many aspects of society where statistics have been massaged for the purpose of equality. There are many institutions that have abused the equality act and there are many individuals who have been unfairly treated in the name of equality.
Ah. I see. You're against "equality". Fine.
Now explain WTF that's got to do with degrees, and why you wrote it...?
There are plenty of statistics that utilise non-factual data, as a free thinker and a sceptic it's my perogative to call them out.
Yeah, that's right, you're a "free thinker" who "doesn't ignore trends".......
You're a comedy genius, you're wasted here.
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Posted: 5/9/2012 7:08:08 AM | Yep Im bored too lucipher!
When youve all finished tossing each other off in your battle of whos more cleverer ( winking icon thingy )
And the rest or us poor uneducated fools can join back in the thread!
Ta
x | |
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Posted: 5/9/2012 7:09:01 AM |
<div class="quote">Whoosh, think that pilot had an asymmetrical haircut too.
Well, why not try and explain.
You claimed that:
To ignore trends is to reject logical thought and perception.
Explain how that's true. I'm all ears.
Again, what has lieing and covering your arse got to do with analytical thinking, again I think you've misunderstood. How can I debate something with you if you don't understand the debate. It's like trying to teach a labour voter about economics, a lost course for want of a better word.
The "better word" would be "cause". And you ARE a lost one.
But I get it, you've been a day trader for "ten years", now..
Gotcha!
:201:
There's no need for people to start getting ratty here.
There are many aspects of society where statistics have been massaged for the purpose of equality. There are many institutions that have abused the equality act and there are many individuals who have been unfairly treated in the name of equality.
Ah. I see. You're against "equality". Fine.
Now explain WTF that's got to do with degrees, and why you wrote it...?
There are plenty of statistics that utilise non-factual data, as a free thinker and a sceptic it's my perogative to call them out.
Yeah, that's right, you're a "free thinker" who "doesn't ignore trends".......
You're a comedy genius, you're wasted here.
I'm exiting this "debate", afterall there's no point in talking if you are not going to read the thread correctly. You just keep mis-understanding everything all the time. | |
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Posted: 5/9/2012 7:41:00 AM |
Why do people need to inflate their qualifications?
because they long to impress for the sake of their own egos ...
can remember working in a major store head office doing temping, when in the canteen they were all talking about degrees etc and finally asked me what mine was? i replied i would of loved to of gone to university but something called the gulf war came along .... for some reason the conversation stopped lol
i regular chat to chaps who done the time served apprenticeships which took almost 5 years and they just look at those coming out of university and shake their heads, explaining because they have a piece of paper it doesnt mean they can do the job. | |
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Posted: 5/9/2012 11:00:33 AM |
to me to have a dergree attained after 1997 is in my opinion worthless.
it was a time when new labour got in remember?.
Thanks for describing my degrees as worthless. You are basically offended anyone who is under 30 who may have worked extremely hard for their degree. Do you think after labour got in maths degrees (for example) suddenly got easier. | |
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Posted: 5/9/2012 1:28:16 PM | Don't care, as long as they can read and write. I only started my degree a couple years ago and it's more for personal interest than anything else. There are plenty of people who haven't had any advanced education but have gone on to do amazing things in life. These days, a University education means very little in terms of the ability to suceed. Besides, having heard some of the things that people with advanced qualifications come out with, I think it's safe to say that knowlege does not necessarily equate to intelligence. I dated a guy once who had a Masters degree but he did not have an ounce of common sense. Or decency, come to that. Qualifications mean very little to me.
But, to some people, they are everything and I think that is probably why some people stretch the truth about their academic acheivements - to broaden the circle of those who are likely to be interested. Frankly I couldn't be arsed to inflate my profile with crap just to gain interest. If someone ranks academic acheivements of higher importance than the type of person I am, I don't really want to know them anyway - unless they are a potential employer headhunting me! | |
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