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| Religion and modern relationships, is there a basic conflict?
Posted: 6/19/2012 3:18:08 PM | "Over 80% of people in the USA identify themselves as Christians."
So...?
It can be the same percentage who embraced the sexual rev/lib to take down the social and religious standards of the time for a new set of order where we can fuk like rabbits.
And the Church adapted or accepted the changes because the imposibility to restablish the Inquisition.
"... since Catholics theology forbids all birth control ..."
Not anymore.
It´s been stablished a correlation between lactancy and/or birth control pills with less reported cases of breath cancer.
The Vatican is studying the possibility to recomend nuns to take birth control pills as a way of prevention.
Another example of the time changing and where ideology is replaced by cience.
"...even so called sexual liberals stigmatize people who are cross dresser / transgenders/sex workers."
I believe it has to do more with social culture than religious influence.
Abortion, after the landmark case, was viewed as an extreme recourse. Today, is a form of birth control.
"Do other people think the USA's is still sexually prudish, what is the cause of this and what sort of problems does it cause?"
We aren´t sexually prudish. We just have an image to live and a another life behind that image. | |
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| Religion and modern relationships, is there a basic conflict?
Posted: 7/1/2012 7:27:57 PM | Hi
You were very fortunate that person showed that he was very direspectful before getting involved with him.
How could he respect you if he was such a judgemental person.
Sadly people are unable to respect other people because they do not respect tem self.
For me the catholic belief is healthy in one way it encourages people honesty and confession.
The sad fact that some of the ways of the past were to use paina nd punishment for correction of children.
Sadly it is not ehalthy to live in fear.
Honesty can not happen if there fear and alck of tust.
Today I was discussing religious beleifs for some time.
Every religion is a kind of guidance.
Sadly each religion has aspects where they go against spiritual values and aganst people conscience.
Those aspects are not healthy.
To think because people join a preist hood that they are not vulneerable people in any way is nieve.
I was treated cruelly in my child hood in so many ways.
For me there were very unhealthy people who manipulated me in so many ways adn betrayed my tust of them.
I met a child molester once and we talked things out.
I found out that his life began as a victim and he remained a victim for most of his life.
If we trully heal the pains of our past those pains become our strength and make us who we are today.
If we do not heal we become resentful bitter twisted people who live in the past.
Any I hope I cured your insomnia
Love
Dave | |
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| Religion and modern relationships, is there a basic conflict?
Posted: 7/1/2012 9:17:48 PM | | Yes many religions are against it! But frankly where are the people that live it ? And yes I was raised as your wife but yet I don't know why they believed that way .The marriage bed is undefiled and to be a place of pleasure .Song of Solomon is a beautiful story all about love and sex. I don't think most people are still in that mind frame.And honestly I know very few! | |
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| Religion and modern relationships, is there a basic conflict?
Posted: 7/1/2012 9:47:41 PM | | I believe the Bible is the true inspired living word of God! I do not call myself a Christian because the word means Christlike and I am n no way Christlike! and do agree most religion is corrupt ,Have attended many different kind of churches . And yes I sin daily but know that I am forgiving and that it is impossible to live on this earth without sinning! As for the laws that were quoted ,they are old testament laws and we live under grace So I thank God for His Amazing Grace ! As for the fornication in the Bible if you study it it really means being a whore ,prostitute etc. | |
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| Religion and modern relationships, is there a basic conflict?
Posted: 7/2/2012 10:00:34 AM | Hi...I'm a Christian...people dont seem to really understand what a Christian is...There is the beleiver and the non beleiver...this is the only way I can explain it...both non beleiver and believer are all sinners...the whole world sins...no matter who you are... priest , pastore...the sweet little ole lady next store....the difference is the beleiver realizes they are sinners and will need Jesus or they can not get into Heaven...they will Humble themselves to jesus Christ and admit to him they are wrong and need his help....Jesus forgivness is not like ours....thats why it is sooo hard for peopl to understand...we dont forgive people we hold grudges until we feel like forgiving...everytime you ask Jesus to Forgive...he is right there over and over...thats why they say his Grace is sufficient....you cant compare him to us...he is not like us...When Jesus died on the cross there were two sinners also hanging on a cross next to him...one on each side....both sinners one mocked him...the other accepted him...one is in Hell right now the other in Heaven....God knows we cant walk a perfect line...we screwed that up...so he made a sacrifice Jesus to prove his Love and dedication..should we try really hard to not sin...yes...but when we do if and as a beliver as long as you dont hide from him...just face up and admit it...he unlike people yes will forgive you and you just ask him to make you stronger...thats all...
This woman about the sex thing might be a phony Christian...or was brought up by people who made her feel guilty about her sins....maybe thats why she feels the way she does...maybe she cant help it...God knows we want pleasure thats why he created sex...its too enjoy in your marriage so she is wrong about alll that...or she just isnt really understanding him...shes needs to read the Bible...he is not mad at her at all...for anything she does in bed... | |
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| Religion and modern relationships, is there a basic conflict?
Posted: 7/2/2012 1:48:13 PM | Bible says sex outside of marriage is a sin, masurbation is a sin and so is birth control. According to the bible Im going straight to hell!
But you know something I dont blieve in that fairy tale book that is full of contradictions. They are people that do and they are the ones that have a weak mind and need a bible/crutch to get them thru the day. I do therefore avoid biblethumpers like a plague... | |
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| Religion and modern relationships, is there a basic conflict?
Posted: 8/3/2012 8:30:09 AM | Hi
I think in todays age we are less ignorant than in the old days and understand we fulfill our own wants and needs.
Some people have a need to have a belief system religious or other wise.
We are undrstand we have phayical needs and wants, we also have emotional needs and wants, and or course we have sexual needs and wants.
Sadly people will do any thing to fullfill their wants and needs adn even lie and sell them self short.
Each one of us is more than our physical being.
It is conscience and spiritual values is what counts towards people acepting us and embracing us as a whole person.
If I pretend to be some one or some thing I am not I only cheat myself.
In todays age there is so much importance placed on physical and sexual attraction rather than our spiritual attraction.
In my early yeasrs I saw a very elderly couple hand in hand in the rain and going against the wind and you could not only see the connection but feel that what they had was deeper than I could understand at that time.
What importance is placed up on trust loyalty and unconditional love and giving of our self.
Every things today is about conditional behaviours.
Can people give of them self unconditionally because giving of them self gives them pleasure.
Can religions become obsessive yes like so many other things in our life.
Religious and spiritual values are only guides to how to live a ehalthy life.
What was a sin years ago is now accpetable because we do care more at a dpper level.
Do people forgive in a healthy way today.
Or do people bury and suppress pain and just dump it on the next vulnerable person they meet.
These open sites are suppose to stimulate people in to making healthy spiritual decisions for them self.
So that we can all go through life with our pain fear and frsutrations adversely affecting our decision making skills.
Fear makes a person unlovable.
Can I get the very best from life and realtinships living in fear.
Dave | |
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| Religion and modern relationships, is there a basic conflict?
Posted: 8/4/2012 1:42:23 AM | @DragonBits (OP), the exact figure is 76% of the American population identify themselves as Christian in polls, but only 25% of Americans are Catholic (stats from 2008).
While being an atheist myself, I’ve had tons of online interaction with Christians for years on forums, etc.., as well as knowing Christians personally, & I would venture to say that most Christians are not overly concerned with Biblical-based “rules” on sex. I think you’re making over-generalizations about the American population, based on your experience with your wife, & assuming that most other Catholics are like her. And Christians other than Catholics don’t seem to have that obsession with rules around sex either. Even the Fundamentalists & non-denominational modern Christians (20% 0f the American population) don’t appear to have a lot of hang-ups about sex, or sex for pleasure within marriage. At least that's my take on it.
Sure Catholics that have had a strict upbringing may be conflicted when it comes to sexuality. Your ex-wife seems to be an extreme example of this, if that in fact was the origin of her attitude or behavior, rather than a convenient excuse.
As for the U.S.A. in general being “prudish”, well moreso than a lot of European countries, that’s for sure. | |
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| Religion and modern relationships, is there a basic conflict?
Posted: 8/4/2012 4:08:47 AM | A majority of those claiming to be Christians have no idea what the Bible even says. Therefore they're NOT conflicted. They are NOT saved.
Catholics pray to the dead, bow before statues and have openly eliminated the second commandment of G-d. So I am thinking a priest who partakes in that is pretty offensive in calling the people he leads to destruction "cafeteria Christians" or "Menu Christians."
The whole claim about "sex in marriage is a sin" is one of the special ways Catholicism completely negates scripture and controls through fear. Certainly "Song of Solomon" objects to such a beliefs. Catholicism shows a gross disdain for Judaism, the seven feasts, marriage, divorce, and G-d's will. Wait, most people who claim to be "Christians" do the same exact thing! Fancy that.
Regardless of denomination, most who call themselves "Christians" are in many ways merely Protestant (PROTESTING) offshoots of Catholicism, rather than true students of scripture. A rare few have knowledge beyond what they are TOLD scripture says. Which, invariably leaves them as a pawn NOT a soldier.
Seriously examine how many people claim to be "Christians" while asking you about "your sign," gambling or "partying" or who justify their choices by claiming they "can't possibly measure up to Christ" blah blah blah. Just more "protesting" without actually understanding the underlying "cause."
The whole goal of most of those labeling themselves as "Christian" is simply to find another partner for their bed who at least has some slight moral compass, or occasionally makes a show of going to church, or who "will help teach little Jonnie not to steal candy." It's pretty sad overall. | |
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| Religion and modern relationships, is there a basic conflict?
Posted: 8/4/2012 8:12:08 AM | Texan Gal -
don't think the United States is sexually prudish at all. We've got 12-year-olds having sex, women giving it up on the first date, it's seemingly expected (from what I've read here) that sex happen within the first few dates, and we have sexuality on darn near every TV channel and magazine. The person who will wait until marriage is a rare gem, whereas the person who will do the deed on the first date is a dime a dozen.
Twelve year-olds have been having sex since the dawn of man. And, children of the female sex marrying (and cosummating that marriage) as young as 12, 11, 10 used to be so common, nobody blinked at all. In the western world, they were usually "sold" by daddy for a dowry into a marriage with a much older man, and instantly became that man's property. For life. By the way, remember Romeo and Juliet? Juliet marries Romeo in secret (and has sex with him that very night) in order to try to avoid the marriage to Paris - the dude who has shown up to buy her. Juliet is described in one of the earlist scenes as "almost thirteen." Her father and mother both speak of how that is beyond the age where she should already be married. Then her mother remarks to Juliet that "by my count, I was already married and expecting at your age." Then, the Nurse reminds Juliet of what excitement it will be to lose her virginity, and that she should look forward to this. A work of fiction? Of course. But not at all a shocking work of fiction. Nobody in Shakespeare's audience would have blinked an eye in shock. This was the norm. Also reference "The School for Wives," by Moliere. A 35 year old man buys a nine-year old wife, and then forces her to abstain from the consummation of their marriage - sex - for "a couple of years," -- until he feels she is ripe. "Perhaps at age 11," he says. Again, a common occurrence, I assure you, according to marriage records from the churches.
And, in case you missed this inference that might follow -- as for women giving it up on the first date, in most cases the wedding night WAS the first date. This was quite common for more than a 1000 years, at least in western culture.
I personally feel that we have at least fixed a few things in society -- but I also believe that we are definitely more prudish than most of our forefathers (and foremothers?) were, which is one of the negative results. And, I also suspect we Americans do tend as a whole to be far more prudish than our neighbors on most other continents, although I can offer nothing but a few anecdotes in the way of evidence. Anecdotes which might offend some of the more prudish North Americans (grin!) | |
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| Religion and modern relationships, is there a basic conflict?
Posted: 8/4/2012 8:24:47 AM | | Compared to many Middle Eastern and Aisan countries the USA is the land of the sinners. In Saudia Arabia you can be killed for cheating on your spouse or having sex prior to marriage. I think there are just varying degrees of how much of liberal or conservative you are. | |
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| Religion and modern relationships, is there a basic conflict?
Posted: 8/4/2012 8:48:22 AM | The bible was written in a time when you spent nearly 24/7 just surviving. You worked hard to get your food, provide shelter, ect. Women could NOT live alone. They were physically threatened, and rape was common. During that time it was a matter of survival to "mate" and be a couple. A women with children had to feed those kids, men brought home the bacon. for a guy to go out and "knock someone up" was a death sentence for that woman. So yes, it was considered a "sin" to have sex outside of marriage. Survival of the species was the goal... not mearly living. People lived as village during those times, and all needed to be trusted. To have folks out there boinking for "fun" was not in the best interest of the village.
The need to keep sex in the background makes sense during those times. To keep folks focused on procreating, and family values was all about survival.
In true village fashion as in the indiginous people of the world, should an indescression come about, the woman and child were tended to.. however she was still considered broken goods, and lived a hard life.
Of course it wasn't always men that stepped outside of the rules, but in those days, for the most part it was. To this day women in middle eastern nations are prey for those that can't keep their diks in their pants. The problem has been laid to rest on them. I don't feel thats fair, at all... but no one asked my opinion lol
To understand the reasons for "sin" in the bible we must understand the problems with entitlement. The 7 deadly sins are all a form of self entitlement... and that is to me what "sin" is all about. Forgetting the needs of others and tending to your wants at the detrement of others, that to me is "sin". | |
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| Religion and modern relationships, is there a basic conflict?
Posted: 8/4/2012 2:04:40 PM | @ HKOangel99, I’ve seen your stance repeated several times by Christians over the years on religious threads on YouTube & other sites. Namely, your assertion that “the Ancient Romans, very good record keepers , reinforce that Jesus was indeed real.” In reality, there are zero official records by Romans of a historical Jesus, contemporaneous to the time period during which Jesus is said to have lived & died.
There certainly are internet sites & stories of alleged Roman records, like the Acts of Pilate, but these tales were circulated by people with an obvious agenda, & have been thoroughly debunked as false. Maybe that’s what you’re thinking of. The bogus Pontius Pilate letter can be traced back to the fraudster Rev. W. D. Mahan of Boonville, Missouri, who published a pamphlet in 1879 titled, ‘A Correct Transcript of Pilate's Court’. Among other things, Mahan also claimed to discover Eli’s story of the Magi. All of these were immediately exposed as frauds. For instance, Eli's story of the Magi was copied word for word from the novel Ben Hur.
The earliest known references to Jesus outside the Bible are by Roman historians much “after the fact”, & are thus not first-person accounts: Josephus who wrote “Antiquities of the Jews in AD 94; Tacitus who wrote “Annals” in AD 116; Pliny the Younger writing around AD 100; & Seutonias who wrote “The Lives of the Caesars” in AD 120. Even then, the Josephus documents have been proven to have been modified by the church bishops in the 4th century. Other documents such as those of Tacitus are copies of copies from the 11th century, no copies earlier than that survive. Then again no biblical manuscripts earlier than the 3rd century survive either. Not even the copies of copies.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not concluding there wasn't a historical Jesus that existed. I'm merely correcting the assertion that the Romas kept records of evry crucifixion & encounter with rebels, rabble-rousers & alleged criminals.
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| Religion and modern relationships, is there a basic conflict?
Posted: 8/7/2012 4:58:24 AM | Why the hell does Christianity consider sex outside marriage a sin? Actually if you read the Bible there is no clear condemnation of sex outside marriage at all check out: www.libchrist.com
Some Bible references which people think condemn sex outside marriage are "keep the marriage bed sacred do not defile it with fornication" - This could be referring specifically to a bed that a married couple sleep in. In other words do not have sex in a bed which is used by a married couple to sleep in.
"Abstain from fornication" - The word fornication comes from the word fornix, which meant arches where prostitutes plied their trade, so this could really be saying abstain from prostitution.
"To avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife and every woman have her own husband" - This could mean that marriage is the best defence against prostitution as married people should have no need to turn to prostitution for sexual gratification.
"If a woman sleeps with a man in her fathers house she plays the harlot" - This could simply mean that a woman is not to have sex with her lover in her fathers house.
"If a woman tells her husband she is a virgin on her wedding night but is found out not to be then he should take her to her fathers house and stone her to death" - This could mean that the real sin is lying about being a virgin as in ancient times virgin brides were highly prized. It was well known though in ancient times for none virgin girls to marry.
"A priest must marry a virgin who has not been a prostitute." Here is in the only clear condemnation of sex outside marriage, but it applies only to priests. It could therefore be concluded that it is OK for none clergy to marry none virgins. | |
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| Religion and modern relationships, is there a basic conflict?
Posted: 8/7/2012 5:55:03 AM | Twelve year-olds have been having sex since the dawn of man. And, children of the female sex marrying (and cosummating that marriage) as young as 12, 11, 10 used to be so common, nobody blinked at all. In the western world
While a woman may have been promised at the age of 12 she was not in her husband's home until she could safely carry a child. WHICH was still in her late teens early twenties. Menstruation started later. Since it was based on nutrition. And a young bride was not a sex toy but there to produce an heir. And if we must go on history let's look at the other side of the coin. MEN who could NOT provide for his wife and the off spring did not get the prettiest youngest sweetest wife. Parents would select a man based on his ability to raise up the family fortune and name. AND he did NOT trade the old wife in for a newer younger model. Second wives were selected to take care of current children and produce MORE. NOT based on him being a NICE guy. Men did what ever they could to increase their chances of getting the best bride. Which means HE increased his ability to provide for his new wife and her children.
AND which country is it that the women are running around expected to do every guy who buys coffee??? EVERY other country will stone her. TURN her out and call her a whore?
AND if you claim to be a believer in Christ HOW can you debate the fact it states fornicators will have NO PART of the kingdom of heaven??? | |
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| Religion and modern relationships, is there a basic conflict?
Posted: 8/7/2012 6:13:49 AM | just like the christians ive known in the real world, the ones online pick and choose the parts of the bible they choose to follow, and ignore the rest.
according to the bible, unruly children must be killed. ive known some christian ladies with some bratty kids, but the kids are still alive.
followers of other religions must be killed. um...yeah, one of my favorites.
gays must be killed. chic fila is actually being kind by comparison
a woman not a virgin on her wedding night must be killed. how many christians would survive this one?
there is actually much more to be brought up but i wont bother. and yes, i can back up all this with direct quotes if im called upon to do so. its a joke. i cannot date anyone who considers the bible a holy book, or worships the god its supposed to be about. | |
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| Religion and modern relationships, is there a basic conflict?
Posted: 8/7/2012 7:36:36 AM | Christians believe that Jesus sacrifice knocks out the Old Testament rules, so, no, none of that counts unless you're Jewish. You have to dig into the Paulisms for Christians.
It's fine to point out specific hypocrisy when a specific Christian uses OT rules for backing, but you can't use that as a blanket demonization of Christianity because almost all just use the OT as 'context.' | |
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| Religion and modern relationships, is there a basic conflict?
Posted: 8/7/2012 7:48:24 AM | So Abmccary
As a woman I never get to be an independent adult who thinks for her self.
1 Corinthians 11:3: "...Christ is the head of every man, and a husband the head of his wife, and the head of Christ is God.
1 Corinthians 11:7-9:"For a man...is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; neither was man created for woman but woman for man. For this reason, and because of the angels, the woman ought to have a sign of authority on her head."
1 Corinthians 14:34-35: "...women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says, If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church."
Ephesians 5:22-24: "Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife...wives should submit to their husbands in everything."
1 Timothy 2:11-15:"A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent..." | |
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| Religion and modern relationships, is there a basic conflict?
Posted: 8/7/2012 7:57:43 AM | Nope, you don't. Some Christian religions have tried to sweep that stuff under the rug, but trying to semantic those scriptures away doesn't really work - it's obvious with context as to the meaning.
Honestly, if Paul never came around, Christianity would be pretty awesome. Jesus came along, said "screw rules, just love each other, love God, don't blaspheme, understand that I came to earth to sacrifice myself for humanity, and everyone will end up happy." Then, years later, some guy with a bunch of sexual/gender hangups comes along and says "uh, Jesus came to me while I was walking the other day," Christians let him hang around because he had Roman citizenship, and then he wrote a bunch of books with a whole bunch of rules, the very thing Jesus got rid of. | |
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