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| | Date sites and self esteem Page 8 of 9 (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9) |
not to mention a lot other forum regulars who have decided that the dating side is full of nothing but junk and are now here for "forums only."
I am one of those. Many of the people who are "forums only" types, will drool like one of Pavlov's dogs if they get a nibble. That's REacting to a situation.
Look, you can run your life, or you are run BY life. There's no third option.
there are more than a few that are forums only because they are already in a relationship; some of which were FOUND on the dating side of the site. So forum only does not automatically equate to fully cynical of the dating side of POF. Only cynical to specific very common rants that are worded in a very specific way in which THOSE specific people (not all) equate their experience to their entire self professed label and equate the women tey have interacted with to all females everywhere, and then bash, lament and judge as experts.
Those are thones that some of us are trying to explain are doing themselves harm; we don't think all guys are any one thing; nor are all guys either nice or bad. Any more than every woman is either thin or 400 pounds. There are a ton of personalities, there are a ton of physical types, there are a ton of preferences; everyone will be exactly waht SOME are looking for. But if you are trying to attract everyone; get off now. It just isn't possible.
Everyone's an individual. But certain people look for "proof" in the forums for their specific mindset; while ignoring everything else and half the time twisting what people say even. Those are the posts that get jumped on. | |
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| Date sites and self esteem
Posted: 6/11/2012 11:39:33 AM | "I am one of those. Many of the people who are 'forums only' types, will drool like one of Pavlov's dogs if they get a nibble. That's REacting to a situation."
I honestly am stumped as to whether you are agreeing with me or disagreeing with me on that and how you're describing yourself beyond simply being here for "forums only." Are you saying it's okay for you to be "forums-only" for that reason but other "forums-only" people have issues?
And I'm well-aware that not everybody is "forums-only" because they think the dating side is junk -- although, it is said quite a bit, including many people who are always doling out advice about how this site should be navigated and defend the site overall to their last breath (although perhaps just to be contrarian to those who complain about the site more often than they do). Certainly, it was not my intention to dismiss the opinions of those who have had success on here to the point that they are no longer in need of its dating services, though I would not be on this site at all anymore if I was in a relationship because I find the forums to be a black hole... hence why you haven't heard much out of me over the past year.
Also, as I've already stated, I have no specific information from 99.9% of the women who have rejected me on this site. Statisically there are some likely reasons, but that doesn't really matter. People are attracted to what and who they are attracted to, and the science on that matter is beyond fuzzy. Arguing in the forums all day isn't going to convince anyone to change their minds about what they find attractive. You're definitely not going to convince me to find something attractive that I don't find attractive, and knowing that, I don't expect it's any more likely I'm going to convince some woman to find something about me attractive that she currently does not, so I don't even try and I challenge anyone to point out an example of me attempting to do so. My problem with the site isn't the behavior of the women on it, but rather the inefficient nature of the site itself. True, its revenue model is based on inefficiency, but given that it's currently seeking subscription revenue streams, you'd think enhanced efficiency (particularly for those with "niche issues" [as Markus calls them] that make the site more frustrating for them than most) would be one of the carrots it's offering.
Anyway, studly, I already told you why I haven't left the site: see post 116. | |
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| Date sites and self esteem
Posted: 6/11/2012 1:01:49 PM | Studly:
I am here only for gthe forums. If some girl should write to me, she'll get a "not interested" reply. Many, many people here for "forums only" will drop that like a bride's nightie if a possible match comes along Hmmm..
This from your profile:
Until I meet someone who actually wants to go somewhere and do something, I guess I'm only here for the forums... .. seems to belie your point.
But what do I know? lol.. | |
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| Date sites and self esteem
Posted: 6/11/2012 4:24:59 PM | You are worried about self esteem? As one guy told you, go up to 25 women and maybe you can get one date. Good chance, I have seen it happen. But you shot yourself in the foot within the first page of this thread. Here is what you said, and now you will have to ask 200 women and then get a date-
"Desperate for sex ? No man should be.. Prostitutes and call girls are every where LOL ..And its much much less trouble trust me ..And many help build ones confidence !"
As I read in another thread, a few women told a guy to put on a shirt and lose the drinking pictures, nobody wants to go out with someone that has a drinking problem. I would be curious to know what the women think about a guy that seems to have a lot of experience with prostitutes, or that is the image you have portrayed.
Just going by what I read.
reminds me of being introduced to a woman at a party, we got along, started telling dirty jokes, and the subject of venereal warts came up. Her comment was "I've had them a few times, no big deal". I found someone else to talk to. | |
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| Date sites and self esteem
Posted: 6/11/2012 4:47:32 PM |
nobody wants to go out with someone that has a drinking problem.
Nobody publicly admits to wanting to go out with someone who has a drinking problem, yet strangely, it happens. | |
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| Date sites and self esteem
Posted: 6/11/2012 9:14:51 PM | I just had to reply to this post because I must be a moron - I'm going to tell you that it's not the rejection that hurts your self esteem it's all in how you deal with it. I come from a sales background, and at first it was very hard because I focused on the rejection but that was my problem that was what I was choosing to focus on. As I learned more I looked more to the reward of success than the failure of rejection you get to the point you ignore the rejection, even to where YOU USE the rejection to your advantage to learn what the other person really wants! There's a saying in sales there are two reasons they don't buy the real reason and the reason they tell you - you just keep pushing through because you are focused on the big win. I trained my sales people as long as they are standing there you keep trying because you NEVER know when they are going to turn. Part of the problem is you are focused on yourself how you feel what you want boo hoo what you have to start doing is asking your self what do they want how do they feel what do they need as soon as you figure that out and deliver you will be a winner!
Have you ever heard the saying keep your eye on the prize? It's really true. So keep your eye on the prize forget about your self esteem who really cares about your self esteem anyway?
UPDATE: I know you are NOT going to believe what I'm about to write but it is the truth I assure you! I sent out tons of emails text-ed like crazy went on dates lots of them disasters I felt used for a free dinner etc etc Saturday my date was so awful I was ready to QUIT that's right it ALMOST got to me then the next day another lady I asked out said she would let me take her out and I almost didn't go! Well I did and she was the MOST amazing lady I had met yet it made all the horrible dates worth it I was seriously love sick the next day she says she'll go out with me again we'll see...so I changed my profile to "not dating" cause I was so crushing on this girl THEN as I'm writing this post another gal I messaged back and forth for WEEKS finally called me to take her out and I had to tell her sorry I was dating. | |
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| Date sites and self esteem
Posted: 6/11/2012 9:22:37 PM | Heartone 64's response was AWESOME you should listen what you are doing obviously isn't working
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. | |
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| Date sites and self esteem
Posted: 6/12/2012 12:34:30 AM | We all have preferences when we date, what I find attractive doesn't mean another woman will, that doesn't make anyone shallow, so what if a woman has must be over 6 foot in her profile or a guy only dates blondes, we all have the right to choose who we want to be with.
The problem is that people want what they want and don't stop to think that it applies to the other person aswell, those that are complaining the loudest have rejected others because there was no attraction but then get bitter and angry when it happens to them.
Rejection is part of dating, but you have to keep it in prespective and not let it hurt your self esteem, you just need the right one and that can happen at anytime or it might not happen at all on the site, so you have to look at other options or do a realistic assessment of yourself and what you might be doing wrong, there is no easy answer. | |
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| Date sites and self esteem
Posted: 6/12/2012 6:36:17 AM | Shakti: Did a studly post after my last post disappear or something? I don't see him saying that anywhere in this thread. Come to think of it... my last post must have been a reply to one of his that disappeared, too! Now suddenly what we're saying doesn't fully make sense anymore. (Of course, some are saying that about EVERYTHING I post.)
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."
The world is too random for that to be entirely true. If you roll a die six times, the chances that it will be the same result every time are extremely small. As I said above, I did once meet someone from here after a couple thousand email attempts. A couple thousand more and I'll probably meet someone again. If there's anything I've learned about my (dating) life, it's that it will not be as easy as most and you can't give up just because the odds are stacked heavily against you. To be fair to POF, my activity here has arguably been more successful than all my attempts to get dates through every school I've attended, every church I've attended, every bar I've gone to, every sport or hobby I've participated in and every job I've worked at except for one. The difference, self-esteem-wise, is that dating was not the primary reason I was doing any of those other things, so the volume of rejection wasn't anywhere near as high and I didn't spend most of my time doing those activities thinking about the rejections I was getting (that's best reserved for at night before I fall asleep. Alone).
"that doesn't make anyone shallow"
I'm probably different from most guys on my side of this argument in that I don't think "shallow" even exists. In fact, no definition of "shallow" exists that has ANYTHING to do with human relationships, romantic or otherwise. The only one that is close is "lacking depth of intellect or knowledge." You can definitely not be attracted to some physical attribute despite having vast intellect or knowledge. I don't even think being racist is "shallow"; ignorant, perhaps, but not shallow. Attraction has nothing to do with intellect or knowledge whatsoever (unless you are attracted to intellect and knowledge). It's a term that gets tossed around in ways that it was not intended. Really, you should be saying, "You lack an attraction to people who are different from you" or "You lack an attraction to people whose appearance isn't appreciated by the majority/plurality of our society" or "You are only attracted to the physical attributes of people," not "You are shallow." Which is not to say there is something wrong with people who "lack an attraction to people who are different from" them or "are only attracted to the physical attributes of people," either.
"I'm not sure what your point is, since I never said you should try to appeal to everyone. You're arguing against a strawman."
You are basically saying he should try to appeal to people who might not have any interest in dating the "real" him.
Since I already said it once in this thread, I obviously agree with your philosophy, or at least the philosophy that says you should offend/discourage/turn-off as few potential dates as possible with your profile. But there are a LOT of people who think you should just "be yourself" in your profile, and if someone doesn't like "yourself," then that wasn't the person for you anyway. You can't really do both -- either you're narrowcasting or you're broadcasting. | |
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| Date sites and self esteem
Posted: 6/12/2012 7:19:52 AM | personally i agree with this. i have had so many people not even give me a no thank you reply just because i'm not attractive yes i am overweight. and because of that i have one of the best personalities i think because of that. i am kind, considerate and love to laugh and joke around. but it makes u feel like u aren't worth the time of day when someone treats you like your not worth the time. it doesn't define me but it does hurt your feelings and self worth.
but what i really don't like is when people say they are such a nice guy and then don't even reply. if you were such a nice guy you would at least say thank you for the interest but i am not interested. it might hurt my feelings a little bit but it's better than being a tool.
and the funny thing is these guys who think your unattractive aren't even cute themselves. a lot of guys on here seem to be looking for a long term partner and when they try to chat with you a relationship seems like the last thing there looking for. why lie about what your looking for and what you want. oh and i have been told i have one of the best personalities of anyone people have ever met but if i would just lose the weight they would date me in a second. seriously if your that shallow you need to look elsewhere and hope u don't gain weight cuz then your gone 2. oh and lmao that actually happened to this guy. he was very attractive and now he's quite overweight. you shouldn't judge others unless u yourself want to be judged. hope everyone finds what there looking for. peace and love angie | |
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| Date sites and self esteem
Posted: 6/12/2012 8:53:43 AM | Hawking:
Shakti: Did a studly post after my last post disappear or something? I don't see him saying that anywhere in this thread. Come to think of it... my last post must have been a reply to one of his that disappeared, too! Now suddenly what we're saying doesn't fully make sense anymore. (Of course, some are saying that about EVERYTHING I post.) Yes he did post after you, what I quoted was only a portion of it. I just couldn't resist pointing out the incongruence, lol.. He posted after that as well, acknowledging that he is a 'study in contrasts' and then.. *poof*
You can't really do both -- either you're narrowcasting or you're broadcasting. Narrowcasting or broadcasting, lol.. nice. But what does that have to do with your self esteem? Is attempting to appeal to a wider audience more likely to adversely effect it or the opposite in your opinion? Just curious as to the correlation you are making. | |
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| Date sites and self esteem
Posted: 6/12/2012 11:25:31 AM | I have this feeling it's a bad idea to engage in a self-esteem debate with a psychiatric nurse. ;)
Fortunately, I thought that narrowcasting/broadcasting discussion was just a tangent of this thread and wasn't trying to make any correlation between it and self-esteem. Though now that you bring it up, I suppose it is an interesting question. In the short term, particularly as it relates to this site, broadcasting can only help your self-esteem because it would have to increase the amount of interest you get. But much of it could be interest you didn't really want, leading to go-nowhere messaging and bad dates, perhaps even bad relationships, so in the long term, I think it could bring you down, but not in the same way as the original topic of this thread, which could be summarized as: I feel as if I'm accomplishing nothing. Whereas the longterm effects of successful broadcasting might lead to: I feel as if I'm accomplishing nothing GOOD.
Of course, theoretically, the interest you get from narrowcasting should be included in the interest you receive from broadcasting. Therefore, ultimately either one should be a success (if there is success to be had), unless as a result of the broadcasting you find yourself involved a bad relationship you don't realize is bad at the time the love-of-your life shows up and you shrug off the love-of-your-life to continue to the bad relationship. Or unless you become so frustrated with all your bad connections from broadcasting that you give up before the love-of-your-life shows up. But it's also possible you give up while narrowcasting from the lack of interest.
In real life situations, nearly everyone broadcasts. When a new person walks up to you, do you say, "I have no interest in anyone that's got a drug problem and more than one kid and you should know that I had a DUI when I was 19 and my ex-husband tried to kill the last guy that I dated"? Why should an online dating profile be any different? (Actually, the last woman I tried to date in real life did tell me very early one that her ex tried to kill the last guy she dated... and a couple hours later he tracked us down, grabbed her phone, sent me a dozen profane texts from it and then threw it out the window of a speeding car as she was trying to get it back from him! Can't say I wasn't warned...) | |
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| Date sites and self esteem
Posted: 6/12/2012 2:18:53 PM | What does this site have to do with self esteem?
I’m going to be a bit too serious for my own liking here. Let’s not dwell too much on it… To be honest I think the people who have the most trouble on dating sites are the ones who polarise all their effort in seeking the prize. As with life it is the journey rather than the destination that holds the most value. I’ve spoken to such a wide variety of people from all walks of life on here! I’ve met some fascinating personalities both good and bad. My life is more colourful for these moments…
Point is none of what happens on this site has anything to do with my self esteem. This site is a way to talk to people you otherwise might not be able to. If they don't want to talk... well their loss. Dating doesn't begin until they're standing in front of you. Fishing is not actually to catch fish but to throw the line into the water, crack open some wine and have a great time in some lovely scenery! Same with internet 'dating'... | |
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| Date sites and self esteem
Posted: 6/12/2012 2:27:43 PM | ^^Man wrote:
. This site is a way to talk to people you otherwise might not be able to. If they don't want to talk... well their loss. Dating doesn't begin until they're standing in front of you.
 Excellent Point!-I've said that many times...they should be called INTRODUCTION SITES-not dating sites because just as you said, it's not until you are face-to-face does the "dating" begin! | |
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| Date sites and self esteem
Posted: 6/12/2012 2:42:11 PM | Keep your POF profile "visible" and get busy meeting ladies in your own neighborhood. In public, face to face! At parties, school, backyard BBQs, at the gym, at concerts, clubs, lectures, philanthropies, though co-workers and friends, etc.
Do not think that On Line dating is "easier" than meeting people in the "real world". In fact, it's more difficult here! Many misrepresent themselves on their profiles and in conversations only to leave those they're interacting with horribly dissappointed once they meet face-to-face.
Self esteem comes from within. If you let this nonsense get to you, sack your profile. Women do, in fact, hold most of the cards on line. Your skin isn't think enough to play here with a ratio of 4 men to every 1 woman. | |
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| Date sites and self esteem
Posted: 6/12/2012 7:47:42 PM | | one out ten messages i emailed, responded back to me - how do you think i feel? New worm on the bait again! | |
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| Date sites and self esteem
Posted: 6/14/2012 6:25:49 AM | Good Morning Kingslayer,
It happens to the women too. I prefer to email and text with a man for a bit, maybe a week. Then I like to move on to a phone conversation...perhaps several before I agree to meet anyone. I find that it takes a while for the real person to come to the forefront of the conversations. There are two reasons I will not continue communicating with someone: 1) I get busy with work and responsibilities at home, and 2) the man says something that I feel is inappropriate for where the two of us are at at the time. One man sent me a text in response to one I had sent hours before. When I told him laughingly that I'd sent that hours ago he replied with, "Well it's a good thing I can still smell you." It was an instant turn-off for me and I haven't communicated with him again since. I have a high sense of self-respect and I simply felt his comment was inappropriate and disrespectful. It made me wonder how he would speak to me and treat me down the road.
This internet dating site experience can be painful, but it depends on your coping skills and how you perceive yourself. As long as you have a positive self image it will be hard for others to affect how you feel about yourself. I recommend asking some women why they are no longer communicating with you, ask them to be honest but tactful. I prefer men to send me an initial message with some substance, not just a line or two. I actually don't like it when I get something that tells me how beautiful I am; flattery gets a man nowhere with me.
So, to answer your questions:
1) Rejection can both hurt or help your self-esteem, it all depends on how you choose to handle it. Why give someone you don't know the kind of power to do you emotional harm. Tell yourself that one didn't matter and move on. However, I highly recommend finding out why you are getting rejections. If you can find out why you have the opportunity to change it if you so desire. It is an opportunity to grow if you seize it.
2) Again, it can make you tougher, or it can make you more jaded. It depends on how you handle it and how much you internalize it. Re-read answer number one.
3) I can't really answer this one. As woman I've had my fair share of rejection, and I've done my fair share of rejecting. When I reject someone I do it with as much kindness as possible so I don't cause any harm or negative feelings. I wish we could all do that. I also respond to just about every request or message I get, even if I don't want to date the person. I think we as humans need to be acknowledged for our efforts and it's nice to have our existence validated to some degree.
4) I receive an average of ten messages a week, either a direct email or a notice that says so-and-so would like to meet you. I haven't gone on any dates yet, but I've only been on the site for a couple of weeks (though I've been on others for a couple of years). I've actually only dated two men from the other sites. Several men on this site have asked me to meet them, but after looking at their profiles it was apparent our lifestyles were not compatible so I declined. There are a couple others I am still considering.
In the end just remember you get out of it what you put into it. If you make a concerted effort to make a great impression you might have more success. If a man doesn't make the effort to impress me with his first message I tend to think he won't make any effort later. This is important to me because relationships are 90% work and 10% pleasure. If a man doesn't make a good hearted effort right from the start I don't think he'll make the effort necessary later on when the chips are down.
I want to close with this reminder from earlier in my message, take rejection as an opportunity to evaluate yourself, and to make changes that could increase your chances of success. Try not to take anything personal and try not to give power to others which they can use to harm you. Remember, you alone are in control of how you feel. No one can make you feel any certain way unless you choose to feel that way.
I wish you well!
Bell | |
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| Date sites and self esteem
Posted: 12/19/2012 8:01:47 AM | Now that online dating has become so commonplace, many folks are starting to notice certain ''patterns'', and there's been a growing bunch of stuff written lately about how little the online dating scene resembles ''real life''. As ever the simple fact is that men still 'pursue' and women 'pick'.... except that online, women get way more to pick from, which of course makes them even ''pickier'' (duh)! Plus some guys use the ''shotgun'' approach, pinging almost any and all women online.
The net result is that a lot of gals simply receive LOTS of attention (like the one above who just started, and already gets at least 10 messages a week)! Throw in the fact that many gals often have no real interest in dating, let alone a relationship, and simply post a profile just to receive all that attention for a sort of ''self-esteem boost'' (aka, ''see, I still got it!''). Plus the fact that any reasonably attractive woman regularly gets hit on in real life... often A LOT (so what's it say when they come here)?
And yeah, there are the occasional few who do ''beat the odds'' (kinda like winning the lottery), but realistically it pretty quickly becomes obvious that at least for most men, online dating ain't all it's cracked up to be. Far better chances (and better choices) going ''old school'', meeting folks thru friends, work, church, classes, volunteering, even bars!!
But hey, just keep on with all those Meet Me's and Flirts... a lotta gals still love the attention!! | |
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| Date sites and self esteem
Posted: 12/20/2012 2:40:03 PM | I feel for you My brother. Unfortunately we are in a country or society where everything is geared to woman and man is the donkey. You need to learn certain method of dating or getting woman. you have know their weak point as well as the strength. best thing is to approach them in such a manner not to get your feelings hurt, Because they don't care less about you or me.So why should you.You only care for the one who have the Heart, kindness, manners, class and dignity.
Do not set your goal too high and know your strength. Know your type and go from there.Do not waste time on the one who will take you for granted.Learn to dump quick and move on before you get emotionally involved.
Remember ,it is the society and the desperate man who make these human precious and unattainable. There are plenty of good woman out there and you have to know where to tap and find the diamond.
I have been through the block few times and learned the rope.
Wish you good luck | |
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| Date sites and self esteem
Posted: 12/20/2012 4:40:57 PM | I typically hate articles or books that try to tell a particular gender how they should or shouldn't behave, but this one is pretty spot-on:
http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-harsh-truths-that-will-make-you-better-person/
You care too much of what other's think of you. Self-confidence comes from belief in your own abilities and knowing yourself. Your skills that you demonstrate at work (NOT necessarily your work in itself), school, on the basketball court, in front of the sketch pad or the microphone, etc. are what define you. When you know what you are truly capable of, you couldn't give less of a sh!t if other people know.
How does that relate to dating? Simple, I know what I have to offer the rest of the world as a human being, hence if one girl or 10000 girls reject me because I don't match her iphone case along with the rest of her accessories, that's truly her loss, and I can define discretely WHY that's her loss and not mine. Can you honestly define what you have to offer the rest of the world? If not, that's where the heart of your self esteem problem truly lies.
Good luck. ^_^
Edit: Just realized the OP isn't active anymore. Meh, oh well, I maintain my position on this nonetheless. | |
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| Date sites and self esteem
Posted: 12/20/2012 9:24:17 PM | I think the more arrogant someone is the more inclined they are to be hurt be rejection.
I think rejection helps your self esteem in a way because you're not expecting 'yes' 100 percent of the time.
It makes a person tougher, males should expect a decent amount, sorry guys. Let's face it- women have their choice of men and they just weed out the ones they don't want, at least online. Keep your head up, I'm sure there is a woman interested. | |
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| Date sites and self esteem
Posted: 12/20/2012 10:52:51 PM | Males should start out expecting "no" nearly 100% of the time on POF. After some practice 1 out of 15 or so will reply. You still need to email a lot since not all the replies will lead to a date.
I don't think rejection on the order of what we experience builds self esteem at all in those who do not have it.
For someone like me who does have confidence it does not improve or detract from it. I do find that it builds confidence in making real world pick up attempts because the online dating women make women in real life seem like down to earth perfectly sane angels.
Yes women have their choice. No matter what we think we just approach and present ourselves and they decide.
Finishing this post up I am not going to pull any punches.. be advised..
Women with limited time, attractiveness or social skills or any combination of.... are more likely to have realistic expectations of who they will or won't choose online.
Women who do not have limited time, those who are attractive, have social skills or any combination... are going to have the bar raised higher than they do in real life. They don't need online dating to find a good catch so it is much more likely to be used with the hopes of finding Mr Absolute Perfection. | |
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| Date sites and self esteem
Posted: 12/23/2012 3:00:27 PM | | Rejection happens to most at one point or another, just time to move on to the next... | |
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| Date sites and self esteem
Posted: 12/23/2012 4:57:57 PM |
Rejection happens to most at one point or another, just time to move on to the next...
The reality is that it happens much, much more often online.
Based on only two out of 10 passes made out in the real world failing and the eight out of 10 passes made online that don't work.. About 4 times more likely online.
As soon as I get home from deployment I will be down to 5 minutes a week wasted on online dating. Instead I will just go out and make passes at only the most drop dead gorgeous women.. 30-40% of the time I can land a date with a 10. Much better than dealing with a bigger attitude problem on a stuck up 6-7 online. | |
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| Date sites and self esteem
Posted: 12/23/2012 5:00:12 PM |
I think the more arrogant someone is the more inclined they are to be hurt be rejection.
I think rejection helps your self esteem in a way because you're not expecting 'yes' 100 percent of the time.
It makes a person tougher, males should expect a decent amount, sorry guys. Let's face it- women have their choice of men and they just weed out the ones they don't want, at least online. Keep your head up, I'm sure there is a woman interested.
That's total bs. If you think that way then you should ask some guys. If you are a catch you wouldn't be here anyways.
Sorry but some men do have a choice among women. I do at least, there are sure others like my step mom's cousin who had over 200 women to date. | |
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