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Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death      Home login  
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 red_fir
Joined: 11/21/2011
Msg: 26
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There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as deathPage 2 of 4    (1, 2, 3, 4)

This is the only relevant measure of the legitimacy of science: it functions exactly the way it expresses that it should. There is no false dilemmas, no undelivered promises, if you want to travel somewhere, it will take you there. If your sick it will do every thing in it's power (which is tangible and quite considerable) to heal you. If you are hungry it will feed you, Thirsty it will bring you water. If you are ignorant, it will teach you. And it exists as a mater of fact.


So much burbling crap.

Science is a tool equally manipulable as religion, its frequently used to argue both side of the story and as susceptible to the corrosive influence of money and politics.
Science is rife with "scientists" attempting to prove their preconceived ideas and disprove someone else's for no better reason than ego fulfillment.
Faith in science is as misplaced as industrial grade silicone on a woman chest, unless you're the scientist trying to prove things to your own satisfaction.
 tbicon
Joined: 5/6/2012
Msg: 27
There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 6/25/2012 11:19:07 AM
Unless you are a mathemetician or theoretical physicist, like abelein, you simply don't have the education or background to challenge einstein on any of his theories. Its like a politician challenging the concept of global warming when he doesn't even know what a cloud is ... But far more complicated than the climate.
 DeadRedhead1972
Joined: 8/28/2011
Msg: 28
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There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 6/26/2012 12:53:48 AM
First, I would like to commend you for the thought-provoking quality of your arguments, but I don't think anyone here is arguing for religion over science.

"The Bible shows the way to go to heaven, not the way the heavens go."

Galileo Galilei
Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/g/galileo_galilei.html#


Science, as a methodology, is NOT an approach,...


methodology  [meth-uh-dol-uh-jee]
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: methods
Synonyms: APPROACH, channels, design, manner, mode, plan, practice, procedure, process, program, style, technique, way
Notes: a method is a way of doing things; a methodology is a set or system of methods
http://thesaurus.com/browse/methodology#visualthesaurus


The ONLY thing that science is concerned with, is the confirmation of observable phenomena through the use of repeatable, objectively demonstrable, experiments .


The key word here is repeatable. Science is certainly a methodology, and it concerns the way we apprehend(or approach) reality. The scientific(or experimental) method is empirical: observation leads to a hypothesis which leads to experiments to support the hypothesis. If there are no facts that can disprove a hypothesis, and if it is widely accepted by scientists, then it can be considered a theory, at least until someone can, by some better experiment, disproves it.



Atomic theory has been around for more than two thousand five hundred years.


I assume you are talking about Democritus. Even today, there is no satisfactory explanation for the question, "what is an electron?" We know how it behaves but we still don't know what it is composed of, modern quantum mechanics notwithstanding. But this is not the topic. The question was about whether time exists. Einstein's method was to treat time as another spatial dimension, constructing his model of the universe in four dimensions, so-called "spacetime"(t,x,y,z). This is absurd and has led to some of the greatest minds of the last century believing in time travel, wormholes and a host of other purely mathematical constructs. What is time?

"What has been has indeed objectively been and is no more. What will be, objectively is not and has not been (and, in fact, is not even fully determined, according to quantum indeterminacy). All physical systems ride the universal wave of becoming. Any awareness (ours or that of other intelligences) of past and future reflects the objective wave of becoming. There is no problem of "the arrow of time." There simply is no arrow of time, as if time could go one "way" rather than another. That metaphor is an unfortunate result of spatializing time. The picture of time as a line along which one might travel in one direction or the other is a conceptual disaster. Time is becoming. Becoming is change. The undoing of a change is also a change. There is no "unbecoming."

"Does the impossibility of motion in spacetime invalidate Einstein's relativity? The answer depends on whether one takes spacetime to be physically existent (as relativists do) or as an abstract, non-existent, mathematical construct for the historical mapping of measured events. If one chooses the former, one is obviously a crackpot or a fraud, or both. If one chooses the latter, then general relativity is to be seen as a mere math trick: the physical mechanism of gravity is still out there and it is incumbent upon physicists to find it."

"What about gravity, you say? Well, spacetime physicists understand doodley-squat about the true physical mechanism of gravity. It is dishonest and counterproductive for relativists to teach young people that, unlike Newton, they know what gravity is. All they have is a mathematical description of it and a hopelessly misleading and misinterpreted one at that. By now the reader should realize that there is no such thing as spacetime and that gravity does not have anything to do with the curvature of a physical spacetime. There is something else out there that causes bodies to fall, without a doubt, something physical, something material. Over the last century or so, relativists have steadfastly and sometimes deviously rejected any suggestion that space is not empty and that there is a need to invoke some sort of material substance or aether to explain phenomena like gravity. Given that spacetime is a fictitious math construct, it is obvious that it cannot possibly account for gravity. However, acknowledging one's ignorance is the first step toward acquiring knowledge. So all is not lost. Back to the drawing board!"

"People often talk about the passage of time. They say that time flows or changes. However, logically speaking, it is a fallacy that time changes. Clocks change, physical processes change but time is invariant. Why? Because, again, 'changing time' is self-referential. The truth is that nobody has ever observed time changing. We only use the changes in our clocks to derive unchanging time intervals. The nasty and shocking little truth is that time does not change, a million wormhole and time travel fanatics wearing their little Klingon and Ferengi outfits notwithstanding.

"The above may come as a shocking revelation to many but it is a logical fact, one that makes a lot of celebrated time travel and wormhole physicists look rather silly. "

http://www.rebelscience.org/Crackpots/notorious.htm
 tbicon
Joined: 5/6/2012
Msg: 29
There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 6/26/2012 9:20:17 AM
DRH, I tried, I really did, to see if I could figure out what you are talking about. But I can't. Maybe you are talking over my head, or maybe you are talking nonsense. Regardless, I thought you might find the following very interesting: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7318567/ns/technology_and_science-science/t/its-alberts-world-we-just-live-it/
 Johnnie1270
Joined: 5/13/2010
Msg: 30
There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 6/26/2012 3:44:19 PM
observation leads to a hypothesis which leads to experiments to support the hypothesis

that is perhaps the worst description of science I have ever read.
Hypothesis is an idea or an assertions that are capable of being proven false by using a test of observed data[experiment]


I think I understand why you are confused...you know some science buzz words and a little about the subject [ but not enough to know how little you know] and now you think you know more than the worlds Physicist or actual scientists.
Now why not take your hypothesis about space time and do an experiment to support it :rolls eyes:

Damn I actually read the rest of your post ...what a hilarious mish mash of misunderstood confusing convoluted tosh.
Everyone gets a platform and soap box on the internet and I doubt a rational argument will convince you given what you offer as "evidence" for your view.
 amusicluvr4u
Joined: 5/11/2012
Msg: 31
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There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 6/28/2012 11:53:53 AM
Actually, it means that we are all illusions...dreams..a nightmare that God is having...and none of us actually exist. There is no you, and so no younger you.
 swamp_dude
Joined: 7/23/2007
Msg: 32
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There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 6/28/2012 11:55:24 AM
I'm personally in the camp that believes time exists ... just not in a fully linear way.
I do believe the necessary link of Time and Space .... for its pretty much impossible to define space without time or time without space . hence the time/space continuum.
I do think there are holes in the simplicity of it and hence quantum mechanics and string theory have evolved

pulse and wave debates in light turned into waves of pulses and I'm thinking time has similarities but that ever elusive moment ... our perception of .... rears its head and we have a hard time quantifying time in that exact sense.

death has little to do with time ... death is your loss of interaction with this plane of existance.
your energy need not be destroyed in death .... it just needs to move on or dissipate.

As a bit of an existentialist .... perception becomes everything.
 slybandit
Joined: 7/10/2006
Msg: 33
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There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 6/28/2012 1:29:56 PM
1. I do not claim to fully understand either the Special or General Theories of Relativity. I do understand them *enough* to be able to observe that the original post and quite a few of the posts to this thread are just hopelessly confused.

2. It's not at all accurate that "many physicists believe" that "time does not exist." What I understand the overwhelming majority of physicists to believe, is that the ordinary language that we use to talk about time, with simple distinctions like "past", "present" and "future", does not accurately reflect the description of the world set out in the Special Theory of Relativity. This is what Einstein is-- poetically and metaphorically but not literally-- referring to when he mentions a "stubbornly persistent illusion".

3. It's logical nonsense to speak of the "past, present and future" as all existing "at the same time", because any given event is only "past" or "future" relative to some other event. That's presuming the very thing Special Relativity denies, the existence of a universal frame-of-reference for temporality.

The explanation is crude and to some degree inaccurate, because trying to express what is ultimately a logical and mathematical concept in ordinary language, is inherently imprecise, crude and metaphorical.

One event can only be called "simultaneous" with another event, if they cannot be in a direct cause-effect relationship. Such collections of events are perceived differently by different observers. The collection of events in causal relationship to one event can be objectively defined, but for each observer, "now" takes the form determined by the collection of events in causal relationship where-and-when the observer is. Every event of observation inherently has a different collection of events in causal relationship to where-and-when the observation event occurs.

Or something like that. And yes, this manner of presenting the concept engages in a great deal of seeming question-begging, as "cause-effect" is doing all of the heavy lifting. But in fairness, I suspect "cause-effect" is a linguistic artifact, in the sense that it drops out of the mathematical description, and all that it is intended to express is the "ordinality" of one event relative to another, or that one event is not another.

4. And you can tune in with your much younger self any time you want to, all you have to do is think about your childhood and remember. It is not "true" that all men who have ever lived "still" live, because the same confusion is just being buried in the "still".

All men who have ever lived still lived, and all men who ever will live, still will live. Just not at the same time or in the same place, unless we are talking about a very big place and time.

Women are different, however, physics does not apply to them.
 tbicon
Joined: 5/6/2012
Msg: 34
There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 6/28/2012 2:00:00 PM

All men who have ever lived still lived, and all men who ever will live, still will live. Just not at the same time or in the same place, unless we are talking about a very big place and time


I think this is the point, we are talking about a very big place and time . . an infinite amount of space and time to be precise. I don't pretend to understand this stuff other than to say that time is not absolute as proved by Einstein's theories of Relativity, as Newton thought it was. So if the post is confusing . . well yea, the whole concept is.

I started this thread based on what I have read from the web about this subject. I suppose I really didn't expect any posters here to have much to say. I would think only Abelien comes close to understanding this stuff, and even he is likely in the dark. But my understanding is that time is not linear, need not automatically flow forward, and indeed may not exist at all.
 pappy009
Joined: 2/3/2008
Msg: 35
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There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 6/28/2012 4:47:15 PM
My observation:
The future, the past is all here now...Is time real, Sure, time is motion without motion there would be no time or 4th dimension space...it would be stillness. Time is measurement we use. Time is forward, like energy going forward, as in Zen the Life stream...constant movement forward. As you experience it, you create the past, and you only experience it in the now, therefore the Past present and future are in the now. Death I feel is a transition, we move into a new element no different than this one. When born, on the first breath, DMT floods the brain, this introduces the new "Unit of Observation" into the body of here. The DMT slowly wears off and that Unit of Observation adjust to a new reality. Grow old, and the body wears down, on death, the body again floods the Brain...the pineal gland...with DMT again to reintroduce the Unit of Observation into a new realm death. That Unit of Observation is consciousness or soul and continues indefinitely, from one Quantum reality to another to anther...in Sant Mat they are called Planes science like its own name quantum densities. Or Many Mansions, or the Stairway to Heaven.
 Johnnie1270
Joined: 5/13/2010
Msg: 36
There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 6/29/2012 4:12:09 AM
^^^^^fascinating...if only there was any evidence for this view


<div class="quote"> But my understanding is that time is not linear, need not automatically flow forward, and indeed may not exist at all.
then your understanding is deeply flawed

if time does not exist, is non linear and does not move forward some of the effects we would see would include [ effect before cause] answering this thread before you posted it , posts on here appearing in a random non linear non cause and effect timed fashion and you being an old aged person before you were a baby, having kids before you met the other parent etc..think about it is obviously nonsense and clearly does not happen

i agree it is complicated and very few people [physicist mainly] understand it all [ i am not one of them] but your view is incorrect.
 tbicon
Joined: 5/6/2012
Msg: 37
There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 6/29/2012 1:43:34 PM

then your understanding is deeply flawed


Unless your PH.D. is in physics, as opposed to some non-technical subject like education, you are hardly in a position to tell me I am wrong, especially since there are brilliant physicists, with much higher IQs than you have I am sure, that believe exactly what I quoted.
 Johnnie1270
Joined: 5/13/2010
Msg: 38
There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 6/29/2012 2:05:08 PM
Well thanks for refutng all the points I made* with such overwhelming evidence as an appeal to [ill defined] authority.

Could you cite some examples of time flowing backwards and forwards whilst possibly not existing?

As you will read this after type it I shall use that as my proof that time moves forward perhaps you could answer one of my questions before I type it /even think of it to prove your point about it flowing backwards?
After that just explain why these events happen all the time with your bi directional perhaps not real time


* if time does not exist, is non linear and does not move forward some of the effects we would see would include [ effect before cause] answering this thread before you posted it , posts on here appearing in a random non linear non cause and effect timed fashion and you being an old aged person before you were a baby, having kids before you met the other parent etc..think about it is obviously nonsense and clearly does not happen
 tbicon
Joined: 5/6/2012
Msg: 39
There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 6/29/2012 2:14:13 PM
Johnny, why are you pretending to understand this stuff when you don't. I consider myself highly intelligent . . mensa material actually, and yet this stuff is WAY over my head. But I enjoy reading about the Universe because I always find this subject fascinating. There is no PROOF time does not exist, there are only theories by those who spend their careers immersing themselves in the mathematical language of the Universe. Is that you? If not, what is the point in our arguing. You don't understand this stuff better than me or most other people. You are simply using your intuition and rationality to make sense of the world, but none of that applies at the quantum level, where I understand some experiments prove that quantum particles actually can exit a door before they enter. Anyway, try Google. Its all out there for you. Try putting in time flowing backwards quantum physics. Here is just one article I quickly found:

http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2012-04/quantum-experiment-effect-happens-cause

A real-world demonstration of a thought experiment conducted at the University of Vienna, has produced a result that is somewhat befuddling to people with what the lead researcher calls a "naïve classical world view." Two pairs of particles are either quantum-entangled or not. One person makes the decision as to whether to entangle them or not, and another pair of people measure the particles to see whether they're entangled or not.

The head-scratcher is: the measurement is made before the decision is made, and it is accurate. "Classical correlations can be decided after they are measured," says Xiao-song Ma, the writer of the study. Entanglement can be created "after the entangled particles have been measured and may no longer exist."

The finding can be integrated into potential quantum computers, one hopes. Causality, clearly, is a quaint, irrelevant concept
 Johnnie1270
Joined: 5/13/2010
Msg: 40
There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 6/30/2012 2:09:38 AM
Well the very least I would expect from a mensa person is to spell my name correctly when it is front of them.
That is just a other appeal to authority – this time your own and and i am no more convinced than before
I note you do not answer any of my questions or cite any evidence to suggest they occur.
I ill try and help your understanding then I am no longer engagining – saying you are bright enough for mensa like i care or that it would make you right.
Ok two points
1. It has been known for some time that in the quatum world there appears to be faster than light transmission of information between paired particles . However it is not credible to generalise from effects we see in the quantum world to the classical world and think that you or I can do this. If time travel was possible you would see the effects i describe that you ignore/refuse to comment on such as having children befpre meeting the other parent- have you anything to suggest anything like this is possible?. You may wish to google tachyons and some of the paradoxes this shows up as well as some of the other experiments showing “information* travelling beyond the speed of light. I am not getting into explaining the quantum world [no one can] and the difference between it and the world we live in but we have no evidence of the time travel you suggest for us moving back and forth etc as your OP suggested. Your understanding remains deeply flawed however bright you think you are.
2. It is possible you may actually mean time dilation in terms of what you are describing ?? We can have personal time that is linear and constant but it can vary between each person [observer] dependent on their speed relative to each other and the speed of light. In this sense we can travel in time [ relative to each other] but neither can travel backwards relative to themselves- ie to a younger self or an earlier year.

I shall let you decide if I know anything or whether I just google well ;-)
*particles above the speed of light are technically not impossible under Einstein [ but particles that exist below light speed cannot exceed light speed but that does not mean you or I – something that exists below light speed can exceed the speed of light. It’s fair to say we don’t know why but there are lots of things we don’t know why especially in the quantum world.

I see nothing in this or any other experiment – can you cite me anything pertaining to the classical world that shows this [ time travel] or suggest that this , your opening post is true ?
“the distinction between past, present, and future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion.” If time does not exist, as many physicists believe, if the past, present and future all exist at the same time but in different dimensions or frames of reference, than is it also true that we never die, that all men who have ever lived still live
 tbicon
Joined: 5/6/2012
Msg: 41
There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 6/30/2012 6:46:27 AM
The point, going over your head, is you aren't smart enough or knowledgeable enough to argue this stuff intelligently.

A nobody teacher trying to take on einstein?. Good luck.
 DeadRedhead1972
Joined: 8/28/2011
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There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 6/30/2012 10:01:34 AM
The steps of the scientific method are to:

Ask a Question
Do Background Research
Construct a Hypothesis
Test Your Hypothesis by Doing an Experiment
Analyze Your Data and Draw a Conclusion
Communicate Your Results

question, "Does time exist?"

background---a pendulum moves back and forth, the clock always moves forward

hypothesis---time exists and is linear, continuous

test---I slap myself in the face.

analysis---it stings AFTER I slap myself

results ----time exists

"In 1935 Einstein and his co-authors claimed to show that quantum mechanics led to logical contradictions. The objections exposed the theory’s strangest predictions."http://physics.aps.org/story/v16/st10

"As the Russian crystallographer Alexander I. Kitaigorodskii observed, 'A first rate theory predicts, a second rate theory forbids and a third rate theory explains after the fact.' Quantum theory doesn’t explain anything; it certainly forbids; and its predictions are trivially successful. Some experimental results are dubbed “spooky.” This does not suggest an immutable “law of physics.”

“I am convinced that quantum mechanics is not a final theory. I believe this because I have never encountered an interpretation of the present formulation of quantum mechanics that makes sense to me. I have studied most of them in depth and thought hard about them, and in the end I still can’t make real sense of quantum theory as it stands.”
—Lee Smolin.

"Quantum mechanics provides a mathematical recipe for what happens in the hydrogen atom but without any real understanding of cause. To suggest that the recipe forbids a new form of cookery is poppycock. To believe that theory can dictate what is real and what is not is a [logical] fallacy.

"However, the astronomer Halton Arp has shown that the redshifts of entire galaxies are quantized which requires some form of near instantaneous, galaxy-wide communication at the sub-atomic level. There are now several reported experiments that demonstrate faster than light effects. With the Special Theory gone, and the universe in communication with its parts effectively in real-time, there can be no time travel and space and time are independent. Common sense has always suggested that this was so. "
 tbicon
Joined: 5/6/2012
Msg: 43
There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 6/30/2012 10:26:52 AM
Yep DR, fascinating and controversial. Will we ever truly understand and know for sure the truth? Unlikely. We shall continue to play out our lives with our illusion of reality. What the quantum world tells us at the least is there is a whole lot we don't see and will probably never understand about time or anything else in our limited views of reality.
 bhawk01
Joined: 12/24/2011
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There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 6/30/2012 10:28:29 AM
We now time exists, as we work with time dilation daily, the computers time on satellites differ from those on earth due to gravity affecting the rate of time, this is something well understood and in practical application. So to assert time does not exist isnt entirely accurate.
 pappy009
Joined: 2/3/2008
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There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 6/30/2012 4:38:01 PM
We create a method called time which in itself is a commercial value, the Gregorian Calendar is based on commerce, time to go to work time to go home. Sunup Sundown. What Al is getting at is that there is this energy called consciousness that does not die, but transforms into something else. Al believed in a Source or G-d energy not a personal being. So he references it in a manner that is philosophically scientific. As long as your stuck in this body, then you experience this reality in that form. The energy moves forward and not back. No sense bringing in Quantum thinking until proven fact is established.
I was in an accident once..I saw the car coming right at us in our car, knowing it was going to hit us..Time slowed down...I watched that car come right at us at half speed. Now that to me is in line with Quantum theory, but it was experienced consciously. No one was seriously hurt. I am sure many people have experienced the same thing. Einstein was fascinated with the human mind, the imagination. The Human mind is capable of slowing down time and I experienced that. As many others have. I after that experience, I believed what he was getting at..about the power of the mind. Quantum is to me our imagination. Putting it into concrete reality is the test.
 bhawk01
Joined: 12/24/2011
Msg: 46
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There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 6/30/2012 5:34:19 PM
Why do people persist in this idea that there is an "undying" energy at the end of life, the body and brain expends all the energy upon the final momentsand post death, nothing mystical in it.

When you had the accident time did not slow down, rather your perception was greatly enhanced by the body in an attempt to find a reaction in time for the given incident. A common occurence, this does not go against any idea of time though, time is relative though, but is not purely a subjective matter. For example, a hobby (falco subbuteo) has a brain that works much faster than a human brain, in orde to be effective in high speed pursuits against its prey, this means the hobbies view of time is much "slower" than ours, we would appear to move more slowly to a hobby than we would to another human, this does not mean time doesnt exist....
 DeadRedhead1972
Joined: 8/28/2011
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There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 6/30/2012 5:35:05 PM
The error of imaginary causes. To begin with dreams: a cause is slipped after the fact under a particular sensation (for example, the sensation following a far-off cannon shot) — often a whole little novel is fabricated in which the dreamer appears as the protagonist who experiences the stimulus. The sensation endures meanwhile as a kind of resonance: it waits, so to speak, until the causal interpretation permits it to step into the foreground — not as a random occurrence but as a "meaningful event." The cannon shot appears in a causal mode, in an apparent reversal of time. What is really later (the causal interpretation) is experienced first — often with a hundred details that pass like lightning before the shot is heard. What has happened? The representations which were produced in reaction to certain stimulus have been misinterpreted as its causes.
In fact, we do the same thing when awake. Most of our general feelings — every kind of inhibition, pressure, tension, and impulsion in the ebb and flow of our physiology, and particularly in the state of the nervous system — excites our causal instinct: we want to have a reason for feeling this way or that — for feeling bad or good. We are never satisfied merely to state the fact that we feel this way or that: we admit this fact only — become conscious of it only — when we have fabricated some kind of explanation for it. Memory, which swings into action in such cases without our awareness, brings up earlier states of the same kind, together with the causal interpretations associated with them — not their actual causes. Of course, the faith that such representations or accompanying conscious processes are the causes is also brought forth by memory. Thus originates a habitual acceptance of a particular causal interpretation, which, as a matter of fact, inhibits any investigation into the real cause — it even excludes it.
5 The psychological explanation: to extract something familiar from something unknown relieves, comforts, and satisfies us, besides giving us a feeling of power. With the unknown, one is confronted with danger, discomfort, and care; the first instinct is to abolish these painful states. First principle: any explanation is better than none. Because it is fundamentally just our desire to be rid of an unpleasant uncertainty, we are not very particular about how we get rid of it: the first interpretation that explains the unknown in familiar terms feels so good that one "accepts it as true." We use the feeling of pleasure ("of strength") as our criterion for truth.
A causal explanation is thus contingent on (and aroused by) a feeling of fear. The "why?" shall, if at all possible, result not in identifying the cause for its own sake, but in identifying a cause that is comforting, liberating, and relieving. A second consequence of this need is that we identify as a cause something already familiar or experienced, something already inscribed in memory. Whatever is novel or strange or never before experienced is excluded. Thus one searches not just for any explanation to serve as a cause, but for a specific and preferred type of explanation: that which has
most quickly and most frequently abolished the feeling of the strange, new, and hitherto unexperienced in the past — our most habitual explanations. Result: one type of causal explanation predominates more and more, is concentrated into a system and finally emerges as dominant — that is, as simply precluding other causes and explanations. The banker immediately thinks of "business," the Christian of "sin," and the girl of her love.
 gedanken
Joined: 9/2/2009
Msg: 48
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There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 6/30/2012 5:54:04 PM

hypothesis---time exists and is linear, continuous


Just to set the record straight here, time is not linear. Only in a weak gravitational field and over sufficiently short durations of space-time can 'time' be said to approach linearity (ie Minkowski metric). Otherwise, all solutions to Einstein's field equations that match reality require a non-linear metric for the space and time components.

As well, you mandate that it is "continuous", but make no attempt to prove it. How do you know that at a quantum level it is not discontinuous? At best, one might say that time Ii] appears to be continuous on a macroscopic level, but why even refer to continuity in the first place if there is no attempt to prove it and adds nothing to the argument?

So, since the hypothesis is incorrect and illogical, any conclusion that is reached is invalid.
 DeadRedhead1972
Joined: 8/28/2011
Msg: 49
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There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 6/30/2012 7:12:41 PM

So, since the hypothesis is incorrect and illogical, any conclusion that is reached is invalid.


So sorry, let me revise my hypothesis to to read, "time exists, is either continuous or quantized(discrete)---depending on whether your measuring equipment is analog or digital---, and is a function of both velocity and gravity, relative to some inertial frame of reference of the observer.

Now I slap myself in the face again...
 gedanken
Joined: 9/2/2009
Msg: 50
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There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 6/30/2012 7:58:59 PM

"time exists, is either continuous or quantized(discrete)---depending on whether your measuring equipment is analog or digital---, and is a function of both velocity and gravity, relative to some inertial frame of reference of the observer.


Better, however for the sake of your argument, I was thinking something a tad more concise such as "Time exists and is asymmetrically causal."
And, of course, you and I both know that fundamental structure of space-time is not immutable depending on what type of equipment that we are using to take measure, just as a galaxy doesn't morph if we decide to look at it in x-ray as opposed to infrared.
However, you may slap yourself in the face again...
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