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Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 tbicon
Joined: 5/6/2012
Msg: 51
There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as deathPage 3 of 4    (1, 2, 3, 4)
Is this a contest to see who can write more gobbledygook?
 Johnnie1270
Joined: 5/13/2010
Msg: 52
There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 7/1/2012 9:24:36 AM

The point, going over your head, is you aren't smart enough or knowledgeable enough to argue this stuff intelligently.

Your ad hominem is as convincing as your misspelt appeal to authority.

A nobody teacher trying to take on einstein?. Good luck

I am not taking on Einstein I am taking on you, unless of course you are Einstein and you have travelled in time after your death to prove your point...are you?
 tbicon
Joined: 5/6/2012
Msg: 53
There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 7/1/2012 10:42:45 AM
You could never take me on successfully, not if I put any effort in my arguments. But being honest, why would I waste my time? I give the opinions of some top notch theoretical physicists, not my opinions, and you tell me how dumb i am. I don't mean to attack you personally. I just quickly sized you up for what you are. Sorry.
 Johnnie1270
Joined: 5/13/2010
Msg: 54
There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 7/1/2012 11:52:01 AM
Your right , as I argue rationally, without insulting your intelligence and with evidence I clearly am unable to take you on.
 NO_NO
Joined: 4/12/2008
Msg: 55
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There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 7/3/2012 5:33:09 PM
When I first hear just the words that time did not exist, first thing it came to mind was. Maybe it is like in a movie, when the movie is done. You have the content of the movie, but there isn't really time in the movie, we just take time to watch.
 swamp_dude
Joined: 7/23/2007
Msg: 56
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There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 7/4/2012 1:37:52 PM
Well boys and girls ... you can say there is no time until your mom tells you its time for bed.
 ExitingTheStage
Joined: 5/25/2011
Msg: 57
There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 7/4/2012 3:51:11 PM
hypothesis---time exists and is linear, continuous


Referring to the movie analogy... since the movie needs to be watched ... and life has to be observed to... feel time pass....

. . . it is not linear because you cannot feel the past.... you can draw timelines, sure... but you're not actually measuring it... You don't have the ability to measure time into the past....

.... and the future.... you cannot measure or feel that or observe the future....

linear is an observed line.... a line we cannot see or make measurements of....

because it is only a pointing moving forward....

but is it straight? was it straight all along?

It's a ridiculous notion that this thread assumes.
Going back to meet yourself in the past or future is science fantasy.



The trick with this fascination of time travel.... is that you could never invent an experiment to prove that it could work.
 NO_NO
Joined: 4/12/2008
Msg: 58
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There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 7/6/2012 10:06:02 AM
The movie needs time to be watch, but doesn't need time to exist. If life is like a made movie, the perception of time is simply an illusion.
There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 7/7/2012 10:00:05 PM
Again: until we look at how we're defining time in the first place, a conversation like this is pointless.
 RyanReed
Joined: 3/14/2012
Msg: 60
There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 7/9/2012 3:55:39 PM
Action and reaction.

Stuff changes and breaks down, some things that break down contribute to the growth of the new, so you are part right, but not for the right reason, imo.
 swamp_dude
Joined: 7/23/2007
Msg: 61
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There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 7/18/2012 3:03:42 PM
Well .... here you go with a Wiki definition .... that if you don't like ..... you can apply to have it changed .... that is the point of Wiki.


Time is the continuing sequence of events occurring in apparently irreversible succession from the past through the present to the future,[1][2][3][4][5] and a measure of the durations of those events, the intervals between them, and the rates of changes occurring in them. [6][2][7] Diverse fields such as business, industry, sports, the sciences, music, dance, and the live theater incorporate time in their respective measuring systems.[8][9][10] Moreover, time has been a major subject of religion, philosophy, and science, but defining it in a manner applicable to all fields of study without circularity has consistently eluded scholars.[6][2][7][11][12][13] Furthermore, it may be that there is a subjective component to time, but whether or not time itself is "felt", as a sensation or an experience, has never been settled.[7][14][6][2][15] Simple definitions of time include "time is what clocks measure"[6][16] and "time is what keeps everything from happening at once".[17][18][19][20]

Time is one of the seven fundamental physical quantities in the International System of Units. Time is used to define other quantities — such as velocity — so defining time in terms of such quantities would result in circularity of definition.[21] An operational definition of time, wherein one says that observing a certain number of repetitions of one or another standard cyclical event (such as the passage of a free-swinging pendulum) constitutes one standard unit such as the second, is highly useful in the conduct of both advanced experiments and everyday affairs of life. The operational definition leaves aside the question whether there is something called time, apart from the counting activity just mentioned, that flows and that can be measured. Investigations of a single continuum called spacetime bring questions about space into questions about time, questions that have their roots in the works of early students of natural philosophy.

Two contrasting viewpoints on time divide many prominent philosophers. One view is that time is part of the fundamental structure of the universe, a dimension in which events occur in sequence. Sir Isaac Newton subscribed to this realist view, and hence it is sometimes referred to as Newtonian time.[22][23] Time travel, in this view, becomes a possibility as other "times" persist like frames of a film strip, spread out across the time line. The opposing view is that time does not refer to any kind of "container" that events and objects "move through", nor to any entity that "flows", but that it is instead part of a fundamental intellectual structure (together with space and number) within which humans sequence and compare events. This second view, in the tradition of Gottfried Leibniz[16] and Immanuel Kant,[24][25] holds that time is neither an event nor a thing, and thus is not itself measurable nor can it be travelled.

Temporal measurement has occupied scientists and technologists, and was a prime motivation in navigation and astronomy. Periodic events and periodic motion have long served as standards for units of time. Examples include the apparent motion of the sun across the sky, the phases of the moon, the swing of a pendulum, and the beat of a heart. Currently, the international unit of time, the second, is defined in terms of radiation emitted by caesium atoms (see below). Time is also of significant social importance, having economic value ("time is money") as well as personal value, due to an awareness of the limited time in each day and in human life spans.


Now ..... discuss .... away.
 HelpIcantbreathe
Joined: 7/2/2012
Msg: 62
There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 7/20/2012 9:25:37 AM
PlentyofThrowbacks
Sciences is not a evil villain out to achieve some nefarious goal, just because you lack a basic understanding something doesn’t mean that you should attribute human drives to it so that you think you understand it. I much more intelligent approach is to learn about it so that you can form an informed opinion.
OP,
Your quote mining Einstein… and quote mining is bad mmmaky.
There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 7/21/2012 2:07:57 AM
That's not a useful or applicable enough of a definition for the purposes of this conversation.
 LennyPane
Joined: 2/2/2011
Msg: 64
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There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 7/21/2012 3:28:40 AM
So sad that Einstein's not alive today to prove this point ;)
 Pez2688
Joined: 7/26/2011
Msg: 65
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There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 7/23/2012 10:00:21 AM
"Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration. That we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively. There is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves." ;)
 swamp_dude
Joined: 7/23/2007
Msg: 66
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There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 7/23/2012 2:52:59 PM
well ... if you don't like the definition .... please expand or contract or disect or explode it via some form of intelligent interjection that will be applicable to this discussion .... your posts are just a cop out and might as well say.

I see nothing, I feel nothing, I know nothing about time. ... but ... I can waste some of yours by getting you to read my posts.
 CressB
Joined: 7/1/2011
Msg: 67
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There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 7/23/2012 8:08:38 PM

"Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration. That we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively. There is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves." ;)


Good quote man. I love Bill Hicks. Tragic though what an untimely loss. Makes me very sad to think about it.
 Knightrose
Joined: 11/2/2010
Msg: 68
There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 7/28/2012 4:18:07 PM
I think it's incredibly enlightening, at least it was to me, when certain human definitions are abolished or broken down. For example, matter is never destroyed. Nor is it created. This to me would seem that life (or death) are only important to a conscience state of mind. While conscience, while alive, we favor the state of living. There is however no less or more usefulness to our environment in a state of life. Than there is in a state of death. Technically I agree with you, we never die because matter never dies. It just gets recombined in a flowing wave of existence with everything near to it.

Read this quote from Steve Grand:

“Consider yourself. I want you to imagine a scene from your childhood. Pick something evocative... Something you can remember clearly, something you can see, feel, maybe even smell, as if you were really there. After all, you really were there at the time, weren't you? How else would you remember it? But here is the bombshell: you WEREN'T there. Not a single atom that is in your body today was there when that event took place. Every bit of you has been replaced many times over... The point is that you are like a cloud: something that persists over long periods, whilse simultaneously being in flux. Matter flows from place to place and momentarily comes together to be you. Whatever you are, therefore, you are not the stuff of which you are made.”
There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 7/28/2012 5:30:16 PM
69:

You aren't the physical stuff, but the arrangement, the information...and even then is it irrelevent that you're not the energy...not the physical stuff, but not the energy either...because that's what energy is...?

Over a period of time, a ship has it's worn out components replaced by identical but new components. The old worn components are saved, and assembled together as this process goes on. At some point, there is the completely new ship, and the original old ship, both identical otherwise. Which is the real ship? The original ship?
 Yule_liquor
Joined: 12/7/2011
Msg: 70
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There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 7/28/2012 7:51:25 PM

Whatever you are, therefore, you are not the stuff of which you are made.”


and this is because consciousness itself is of another (timeless) realm; thus no matter how many times your physical (atomic) components have been replaced; they can still summon and maintain your essence.
 Knightrose
Joined: 11/2/2010
Msg: 71
There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 7/28/2012 9:26:18 PM
Well how relevant is 'real'? I've always felt that it's a mistake to imagine something has purpose for me. Rather I can give purpose to my life. From that purpose I can determine what is real. The best part of that equation is that I can rely on the evidence of the world that surrounds me to be used in creating purpose. Rather than pretend I live in a garden of snakes and apples.

Everything is made of stuff. A second 'bombshell' might easily be added to Grands quote in saying this: Evidence of reality is based only at its core on our senses and our belief that those senses are working in our favor. If you derive the origin of every sense you can divide them down to one: Touch. Touch is the only real sense. Every other sense is merely a different neural program for interpreting touch. We live in a physical world and it is the only world we have ever known likely ever will. Any time we claim to have evidence of what is real is based solely on the fact that the evidence itself is physical. To claim otherwise is, well, delusional. It is also impractical when concerning are most basic survival needs. So whatever is real must be physical first and vice versa.
 CressB
Joined: 7/1/2011
Msg: 72
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There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 7/28/2012 9:52:15 PM
drinkthesunwithmyface:

There is one physical component of sentient living beings (humans, dogs, marmots, etc.) which is never replaced throughout life. How unfortunate. I wonder what kind of effect I would have on the being if they could be coppied and replaced.
 Yule_liquor
Joined: 12/7/2011
Msg: 73
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There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 7/29/2012 5:49:08 PM

Rather I can give purpose to my life. From that purpose I can determine what is real.


The "purpose" you give to your life is merely subjective from within; the "reality" you draw from that is relativistic. If a person chooses to give "purpose" to his life by fully devoting himself to humanitarianism(like mother Teresa did); his reality will be far different from the man who chose to be a bum panhandling on the streets.


Everything is made of stuff.


hardly everything!


Touch is the only real sense. Every other sense is merely a different neural program for interpreting touch.


really? If so then how do you "touch" sound or color!


So whatever is real must be physical first and vice versa.


according to this then there is no such thing as time or space.
There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 7/29/2012 7:47:58 PM
69, 70, 71:

This would imply that your conscious self is gone when there are no longer any material or energetic support or maintenance for the "information"...the arrangement of matter and energy that is you despite component atoms or cells being replaced...when you die physically.

73:

What physical component of sentient beings is it that is never replaced?

My personal instinct...don't know if it's true or false yet...is that you can make an absolutely identical copy of me, but it wouldn't be me. I can't imagine suddenly becoming conscious inside this other copy. Wouldn't make sense. It might behave just as I would, and outside observers might not ever know any difference. But I say that it wouldn't be me. A stimulating thought though. I know that what seems to make sense or not is based mostly on what I know or have experienced. The glitch is that I am here, behind my eyes, aware, conscious. Not that I'm observing from the outside another person who says this, and who interacts with me with apparent intellect and sentience...but that I myself am here inside this head of mine, looking out. If we reconcile this thought, this experience, that would answer a lot of questions.
 CressB
Joined: 7/1/2011
Msg: 75
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There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 7/30/2012 12:41:14 AM
Drink:


What physical component of sentient beings is it that is never replaced?


Well actually I misspoke. It is two things, if I am remembering the science corectly (I know for sure at least two however there could be more - biology is not my field of study/focus).

Nerves And neurons.

Cannot be copied regenerated.

"I think there for I am."


The glitch is that I am here, behind my eyes, aware, conscious. Not that I'm observing from the outside another person who says this, and who interacts with me with apparent intellect and sentience...but that I myself am here inside this head of mine, looking out. If we reconcile this thought, this experience, that would answer a lot of questions.


This part of your post makes very good since to me. I have a lot of ideas about why you have those feelings, though, I don't share them with very many people. In my opinion, what you said is very close to the reality of things. Use the thread search and dig up the thread "The Soul?". Read post #43. Let me know what you think about the little I said.
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