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| | Coming out as an atheistPage 3 of 13 (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13) |
Yes, everyone is entitled to their own beliefs but that does not mean that those beliefs cannot be criticized or ridiculed. After all, just because someone makes fun of your beliefs doesn't mean you can't hold to them (it in no way, shape or form infringe on your freedom of conscience). The problem is that those who are religious tend to get extremely offended if you criticize their religious beliefs and demand that such criticism be stopped.
Do you know where the line in, 'My beliefs are based on fact' and 'therfore everything else I think is correct' lies?
Congrats if you do. I'm starting to wonder why there is a disconnect in dealing with beliefs as a whole rather than specific ones that appear magical. The ones that think they are right regardless of anything are the problem and not the specifics of what they believe. Magic isn't required in belief. Just believing you are right to the exclusion of all else in any topic qualifies.
So, to the OP... don't do that. If you do... you are most likely wrong. | |
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| Coming out as an atheist
Posted: 6/23/2012 2:27:29 AM | @Demi ,
There was a time when more than 95% of scientist and leading scholars believed the Earth was flat,is it flat ?
60% of all modern physicist believe in the existence of multi-verse ,is there Any evidence they exist ? | |
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| Coming out as an atheist
Posted: 6/23/2012 3:03:52 AM |
There was a time when more than 95% of scientist and leading scholars believed the Earth was flat,is it flat ?
pfft. The terms 'Scientist' and 'leading scholars', applied to the time when it was believed the earth was flat, are misleading - they don't have the same meanings today.
'Scientist' and 'leading scholars' back then basically meant 'literate', and it's no coincidence considering the church aggressively opposed education on principle, that 'literate' was almost a synonym for 'religiously brainwashed'.
You seem unaware that ancient Greek scholars, and slightly later, Islamic ones, had calculated the circumference of the Earth. They knew it was an oblate spheroid.
That information was aggressively suppressed for centuries in favour of the anthropocentric 'revealed truth' versions of the universe found in the 'holy scriptures'.
So if there was a time when it was erroneously thought the earth was flat - blame the lunatics running the religion business.
It's worth recalling too, that when the evidence became overwhelming - not theory but actual observations - the church continued to resist and persecuted the 'spherical earth' proponents. The Catholic Church only issued a belated apology to Galileo in 2000, 380 years after he died.
Yet you are, rather comically, trying to use the fact that the Earth was long 'thought' to be 'flat' to discredit science? hahahahaaa!
60% of all modern physicist believe in the existence of multi-verse ,
Do you have a citation for that?
is there Any evidence they exist ?
It's generally accepted that physicists exist.
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| Coming out as an atheist
Posted: 6/23/2012 9:23:22 AM |
There was a time when more than 95% of scientist and leading scholars believed the Earth was flat,is it flat ? Is it your goal to be wrong about everything? If so, you're doing an amazing job so far.
Here's a list of some of the christian theologians who taught that the earth was flat, based on scripture: Lactantius, Cosmas Indicopleustes, Theophilus of Antioch, Irenaeus, Tertullian, Methodius, Theodore of Mopsuestia, John Chrysostom, Cyril of Jerusalem, Ephraim Syrus, Athanasius of Alexandria, Diodorus of Tarsus, Epiphanius of Salamis, Hilary of Poitiers, and Severian of Gabala.
Here's a list of scientists who taught that the earth was flat: .....
............
...*crickets chirping* ....
..............
...*tumbleweed rolls by*....
..................
The worst part is not that you're wrong again, its that you see a change in knowledge as a bad thing. You have been convinced that increased understanding amounts to a lack of faith. You see, honest people allow their knowledge to grow and change in light of new evidence. It requires courage, intelligence, and integrity to allow yourself to learn and enhance your beliefs accordingly in light of new knowledge; and yet all 3 of these traits are toxic to your belief system. In your religion, when a theologian is wrong that lie is embraced and stubbornly clung to for centuries. And when lies are embraced this way, they call it faith.
But hey, maybe God appreciates those who spend their lives lying about His creation. Good luck with that. | |
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| Coming out as an atheist
Posted: 6/23/2012 1:04:13 PM | | Harder than it is??? Really? I had a lady at work try to get me fired because I refused to be converted. People refuse to speak to me. YOU are crazy if you think being different the majority is easy. | |
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| Coming out as an atheist
Posted: 6/23/2012 2:06:00 PM | I had a lady at work try to get me fired because I refused to be converted. People refuse to speak to me. YOU are crazy if you think being different the majority is easy.
I find this interesting. I've been working now for about 40 years and I doubt to this day the majority of coworkers knew/know my religious affiliation or view. Not even my friends know for sure.
Why? Because I don't talk about it.
There's no reason to broadcast my views and religion or lack thereof has never come up in normal conversations.
YOU are crazy if you think being different the majority is easy.
Only if you scream that you are will they know... | |
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| Coming out as an atheist
Posted: 6/23/2012 3:40:23 PM | | I work in a place were people discuss their beliefs all the time. They ask which church you attend. They invite you to their church they bring their bibles. They tell you what the Lord did for them. They give sermons in the break room. NOW up East. they might not do this BUT here in TEXAS I have stranger sit down next to me and talk about Jesus. And being part of the black community they live for the chance to talk about what god did for them...And expect me to agree with them. I understand you would not understand being you dont live in either of my communities. The southern one or the African American one. To thine own self be true I explained I do not believe and therefore would not be attending their church. | |
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| Coming out as an atheist
Posted: 6/23/2012 5:02:12 PM |
There was a time when more than 95% of scientist and leading scholars believed the Earth was flat,is it flat ?
In case you didn't know, modern science only began with the European Enlightenment (and the first real scientist was Galileo). You're describing a time when science, as we know it today, was not even conveived of (what you mean to say is that 95% of people at one time believed the earth was flat).
60% of all modern physicist believe in the existence of multi-verse ,is there Any evidence they exist ?
Again, a little fact-checking does wonders. Yes, there is evidence that a multiverse exists. This has been explained by many scientists, including Stephen Hawkings, Michio Kaku and Lawrence Krauss, who wrote: "You might wonder whether the same principle applies to the possibility of many universes, or a multiverse, as the idea is now known. It turns out that the theoretical situation is actually stronger than simply a possibility. A number of central ideas that drive much of the current activity in particle theory today appears to require a multiverse." (A Universe From Nothing, pg. 126) | |
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| Coming out as an atheist
Posted: 6/23/2012 7:37:23 PM | Coming out as an atheist?
Yes it's safe now.
It's been safe for awhile now.
Don't believe you'll be burned at the stake.
No Inquisitions.
Just promise to not start throwing us christians back to the lions again OK? | |
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| Coming out as an atheist
Posted: 6/26/2012 12:52:47 PM | | Just tell them you took the 'blasphemy challenge' and it all became clear, lol... | |
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| Coming out as an atheist
Posted: 6/26/2012 2:48:24 PM | | Congrats. It takes true courage to accept the world, life, and death how it really is. Welcome to the club. | |
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| Coming out as an atheist
Posted: 6/27/2012 11:26:14 AM |
However, by the way, as an "atheist", I was surprised to see you use the word "spiritual".... especially say you were VERY spiritual. I have to ask... what do YOU think "spiritual" means and why YOU would be more "spriritual" than most other humans?
Spiritual: spir·it·u·al, adjective
1.of, pertaining to, or consisting of spirit; incorporeal.
2.of or pertaining to the spirit or soul, as distinguished from the physical nature: a spiritual approach to life.
3.closely akin in interests, attitude, outlook, etc.: the professor's spiritual heir in linguistics.
4.of or pertaining to spirits or to spiritualists; supernatural or spiritualistic.
5.characterized by or suggesting predominance of the spirit; ethereal or delicately refined: She is more of a spiritual type than her rowdy brother.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/spiritual
There are many definitions and interpretations of spiritual/spirituality...Buddhists and the original Native Americans believe in spirituality without it being attached to God. Buddists don't even believe in God. So I believe you can be an atheist and spiritual, agnostic and spiritual, and religious and spiritual...Spirituality is not mutually exclusive of the others.
Wouldn't it be wonderful to see an atheist/agnostic POTUS in our lifetime?
No
A Christian does not believe in Alah
Allah is another word for God....Look it up
Atheists do good things because they are good people. Christians do good things because they expect reward and fear punishment in the afterlife
That is the biggest bunch of sweeping generalization bullshit I have ever heard!! Since you are not a Christian then how the f*ck do you know WHAT they do or expect?
Bottom line is this: Atheists can't prove there's not a God just as Christians (and the like) can't prove there IS a God.
IMO it's more or less a very personal state of mind. Whatever makes you feel better, then go for it...Not much in this life is certain so believe in what you believe and chose if you care what others say or not.
PS So if agnostics don't believe one way or another then what do you call a person that believes in science AND God? | |
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| Coming out as an atheist
Posted: 6/27/2012 12:52:34 PM | PS So if agnostics don't believe one way or another then what do you call a person that believes in science AND God?
Religious or non-religious.
Science does not preclude or prove the existance of a God, higher being, or higher power, nor does a belief in God necessarily preclude the validity of scientific observation.
Where they conflict is if a particular set of religious beliefs precludes the validity of scientific observation.
So, there are christians that believe in creationism (4000 years) which conflicts with scientific observation and there are christians that believe in intelligent design which does not preclude the possibility of a far longer existance.
It all depends on which flavor of religious dogma you follow that determines the acceptance/disregarding of scientific validity.
On the other hand, the ability of Science to disprove the existance of God is extremely limited in purely logical terms.
If I posit the existance of a God that is passive and observing, ie like a clock maker that makes a clock, sets it in motion, then steps back and watches it from a distance without interference, then that would be outside the realm of the observable for all intensive purposes. In it itself it would not disavow the validity of scientific observation.
Now if you posit the existance of an active God who participates in active life, then in theory that should be scientifically quantifiable. If you told me that God does more for Mormons let's say, then in theory I should be able to calculate an actual statistical level of correlation between their choice of religion and their particular faith over some time span, whether that is apparent over decades, centuries or thousands of years.
If you argue for healing, I would want to see a correlation of religion and spontaneous remission. If you argue financial success, I would want to see a statistical correlation between being a member of that faith and earnings. If you want to argue the punishment of heathens, I would want to see a correlation between natural disasters and being a member of multiple faiths.
In the end, Atheism is taking the statistical lack of data, assigning it a probability, and saying that you believe your theory to be true due to the lack of evidence.
Religion is taking a spiritual source, accepting that the premise is true, but without a history of rigorous observation and testing of theoretical validity.
Since I can NOT disprove God's existence, and I have not seen sufficiently rigorous evidence to Prove God's existence, I stick with Agnosticism. IE, I just don't know. God might, or might not exist. And I don't know enough to take a stand one way or the other.
As Nassim Taleb would say in his book 'The Black Swan', just because we've never seen a black swan doesn't mean that it doesn't or can't exist. | |
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| Coming out as an atheist
Posted: 6/27/2012 2:05:06 PM | Allah is another word for God....Look it up The Islamic God is a different God than the Christian God.
That is the biggest bunch of sweeping generalization bullshit I have ever heard!! Since you are not a Christian then how the f*ck do you know WHAT they do or expect? Christians often make the claim that, without God, we wouldn't know right from wrong, which is obviously false. Going off of what they said, they don't do things out of kindness for people, they do things for brownie points for God to get in to heaven, or out of fear from Hell. They imply that without God, then they would not have morals, so they would be able to go out stealing, raping, and pillaging. Without God, they wouldn't know any better.
Obviously, there are Christians who do things out of kindness, just as there are atheists that do the same thing. But this is gonig off of the argument that I hear a lot from Christians. They try and say that atheists have no moral compass without God, or some silly nonsense like that.
Atheists can't disprove God. But Atheists are not making the claim. If Someone came up to you and said, "I was abducted by aliens!" would it be their job to prove to you that it happened, or would it be your job to prove that it didn't happen? | |
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| Coming out as an atheist
Posted: 6/27/2012 2:18:02 PM |
Atheists can't disprove God. But Atheists are not making the claim. If Someone came up to you and said, "I was abducted by aliens!" would it be their job to prove to you that it happened, or would it be your job to prove that it didn't happen?
Actually, it's both.
The person abducted by Aliens can claim the actual kidnapping as a direct observation. It would then be the job of both of you to prove or disprove the theory based upon the duplication and confirmation of the results, IE, one or both of you observe or participate in a kidnapping by aliens.
Scientific method requires the confirmation of theory through repetition of observation. One observation does not necessarily prove a theory, but it does provide a building block in the evidence to confirm a theory. The question is how many alien abductions would be required before it passed a consensus of scientific agreement.
For purposes of belief, for the person being kidnapped that number is 1. For others, the benchmark is higher. For universal acceptance among the scientific community, that number is much, much higher.
Of course, observation does not preclude the positing of alternative explanations. Just like String theory and Loop quantum gravity are competing theories where both sides provide possible explanations for the same phenomenon.
So, is the onus on Atheists or the Religious to prove or disprove the existance of a higher power/God? It's on both of them. | |
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| Coming out as an atheist
Posted: 6/27/2012 11:28:38 PM | | Coming out as an atheist is no big thing. Atheist are no big deal. They come from the other side of the valley and they have no step up on anything. Actually the idea of God is so friggen big that it is not possible to swallow this concept in one lifetime. Atheists, my foot. smile. | |
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| Coming out as an atheist
Posted: 6/28/2012 1:28:20 AM | | What Dawkins and others are doing is making crazy money selling hopelessness to folks who are stupid enough to buy. These guys who are selling you this hopelessness believes in stupid stuff like multiverse,string theory,big bang theory and other fictional ideas that they are peddling as science.What are the benefits of hopelessness ? | |
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| Coming out as an atheist
Posted: 6/28/2012 8:20:00 AM |
What Dawkins and others are doing is making crazy money selling hopelessness to folks who are stupid enough to buy. These guys who are selling you this hopelessness believes in stupid stuff like multiverse,string theory,big bang theory and other fictional ideas that they are peddling as science.What are the benefits of hopelessness ?
What allows you to assume that people who disagree are without hope? Do you have some statistical data to confirm that I have or any of the other posters have less hope than you or those who believe in what you believe? Or is this just an assumption?
I have hopes. I have dreams. They don't involve a higher being or power.
I hope that I can live a life that I can be proud of.
I hope that I can adhere to my personal beliefs and principals.
I hope that I can do so without impinging upon the freedoms and pursuits of happiness that others desire.
I hope that my actions will match my beliefs.
I hope that when I decide to have children they will be healthy and grow up to be well adjusted and happy.
I hope that I can continue to make the woman I love happy.
I hope that I will live my life to the fullest.
How are my hopes so different than yours? Other than I am focussed on my current life, and you are focussed on a life that you can neither confirm or disprove?
I respect that you believe certain things. I respect that you try to match your beliefs to your actions.
Are you able to do the same? | |
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| Coming out as an atheist
Posted: 6/29/2012 11:32:37 AM |
Why would you "believe" you are more intelligent because you are a atheist ?
Morality,where did you get your morals from ?
Since we are just animals like cows and sheep ,what is wrong in doing very bad things that are legal to other humans ?
is the same as saying... "the only reason i don't do horrid things to other people is because i am afraid big brother in the sky will see me, otherwise i would do horrid things to other people"
i am atheist. i don't need a fear of big daddy to prevent me doing horrid things - i don't do horrid things all by my self with no help from an imaginary friend.
the oft quoted corollary is that "for good men to do bad things, you need religion". and you don't have to look very far to see that is so true. | |
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| Coming out as an atheist
Posted: 6/29/2012 5:02:46 PM | What Dawkins and others are doing is making crazy money selling hopelessness to folks who are stupid enough to buy. These guys who are selling you this hopelessness believes in stupid stuff like multiverse,string theory,big bang theory and other fictional ideas that they are peddling as science.What are the benefits of hopelessness ? Why is it hopeless? What's so hopeless about their point of view? You just point to Dawkins, evolution, and atheists and yell, "YOU'RE STUPID! IT'S ALL STUPID AND FAKE AND FALSE!" But you have no evidence for your claims. If evolution is wrong, then you would be able to dis prove it. But you can't.
If Creationism was a legit idea, it would actually be a theory. But it's not a theory. It's an idea that has been dis proven by evolution and evidence. Once again, you can see evolution. It's as plain as day. Here's an example:
What happens when you take medicine over a long period of time? Your body builds a resistance to that medicine. Evolution happens in your own body. The very thing that you deny happens in your own body, and you don't even know it.
What is so hopeless about dying one day? I don't think people actually think about what it means to live for eternity. To live forever. Life itself would be meaningless and hopeless if we could live forever.
I have friends, I have a loving wife, I have a passion for competitive video games and dancing. I enjoy learning. I don't need God to give my life meaning. My friends and family give my life meaning. I give my life meaning. That's far from hopelessness.
Dwight, why is it such a big deal? You seem to deny this with a ferocity. I'm genuinely curious why you deny these facts? If God presented himself before me, I would believe him. I would be forced to believe him, whether I wanted to or not. I imagine you violently shaking your head and telling yourself "If I don't believe it, it's not real!" Why? Why are you so afraid of evolution? It is nothing to be afraid of, and if you gave it a chance and understood it, you would see why it's not a big deal. It's nothing to be afraid of, and I think it would give you a new look on life that you don't have. | |
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| Coming out as an atheist
Posted: 6/30/2012 2:18:25 AM | | I am occasionally disappointed or offended by the number of people who don't really understand what atheism or agnostism really means, and by those who play the language game of saying they're spiritual but not religious, when in fact they're religious, or claim some exempt status as a religious person because they're against the formal institution of religion, as if they were different in some way. | |
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| Coming out as an atheist
Posted: 6/30/2012 2:51:52 AM | | Well, it is possible to believe in a spirit, right? No God but believe in a spirit. I'm not sure what that would mean exactly, to just have a spirit that doesn't go to heaven or hell. That's what I always thought being 'spiritual' meant, though. | |
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| Coming out as an atheist
Posted: 6/30/2012 6:47:54 AM | Well, it is possible to believe in a spirit, right? No God but believe in a spirit. I'm not sure what that would mean exactly, to just have a spirit that doesn't go to heaven or hell. That's what I always thought being 'spiritual' meant, though.
I think it's largely based on own's one interpretation. Not a belief in god(s) specifically but that there is "something there". I guess that can sort of qualify as a religious thing, if not New Age.
Oh, and nevermind dwight. People like him are hopelessly confused. He speaks of science but has no idea what it is (this is all too typical of fundies, who like to believe that science is on their side) and has a completely inaccurate view of atheism. They naturally see atheists as unhappy, frustrated, bitter people who know in their heart that a god exists but are choosing to rebel out of personal hatred (or because they're influenced by the devil). Strange thing is, I actually find people like them to be the real Christians - those who take after the likes of the Apostle Paul. | |
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| Coming out as an atheist
Posted: 6/30/2012 1:00:34 PM | From Websters:
"ATHIESM
a : a disbelief in the existence of deity b : the doctrine that there is no deity "
"DEITY
1 a : the rank or essential nature of a god : divinity b capitalized : god 1, supreme being
2 : a god or goddess
3 : one exalted or revered as supremely good or powerful "
Athiesm is the non-belief in deities. It does not preclude any other sorts of beliefs, only the belief in supreme beings. A being limited in power is not supreme so athiesm does not include or preclude any intellectual or emotional position regarding other matters | |
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