| | Coming out as an atheistPage 6 of 13 (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13) |
Rather than getting involved in a big debate over whose definition is correct, I am then free to discuss the actual ideas
Right on Maverick! I try to do the same by saying "I think this is your defintion of word A. Correct me If I'm wrong so that I can use that definition from now on"
Often a deceiver will use word games when people change their intended meanings to support their conclusions. | |
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| Coming out as an atheist
Posted: 7/16/2012 2:32:08 PM | (129)
And so we have someone arguing for the legitimacy of a nickel being 3 cents instead of 5, while you're arguing with a cashier who insists on cheating you while counting back your change.
The result of this kind of stuff is physical violence, and death. Ultimately, in various heres and theres, nows and thens, in the living of daily life. And those who defend this kind of thinking are responsible. Because at some point when people are like this, conjuring up psycho ways of rationalizing their capacity for telling lies and enforcing their ill-intentions, the argument will go on and on and on...and the only options they leave is that you either submit to their mal-actions, or you are forced to resort to using physical violence, wherein blood is spilled and lives are greatly disrupted.
This is why I just can't respect people who are this way, nor religion which validates this way of being. | |
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| Coming out as an atheist
Posted: 7/18/2012 2:47:06 AM |
The result of this kind of stuff is physical violence, and death.
Agreed, though these are EXTREME examples. Usually, Atheists have to put up with this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8Aq00yJSxo&feature=related | |
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| Coming out as an atheist
Posted: 7/19/2012 7:53:12 PM | | yea, i got that vid in my channel whose addy i've posted in here a couple times. got a lot of that stuff, but primarily educational stuff on evolution, as well as religion of course. vids like this are weird in that they're so simple and short, but they instill me with a rage that a person should hesitate to see. people like that should be completely and absolutely unacceptable. there's no excuse whatsoever. my militant feelings on the whole situation are so uncompromising, because i know that people have gotten used to tolerating those things that shouldn't ever be tolerated, so they don't realize how bizarre and unexcusable it is. that woman should literally be dragged into the street, physically slapped around a bit, publically humiliated by the neighborhood, and talked to for an hour or however long it takes for her to at least appear to at least listen. she shouldn't be allowed to do anything to avoid just hearing people talk to her about what's wrong with this picture. she should be forced to listen, and slapped around a bit more if she pulls any spoiled brat "i don't have to listen to you" crap. | |
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| Coming out as an atheist
Posted: 7/20/2012 3:26:48 PM | | I am an atheist, and have been for along time. I don't hide it, but I don't really think about it that much either. | |
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| Coming out as an atheist
Posted: 7/20/2012 4:27:03 PM |
that woman should literally be dragged into the street, physically slapped around a bit, publically humiliated by the neighborhood, and talked to for an hour or however long it takes for her to at least appear to at least listen.
Dude, you've got to lighten up. Physically slapped? Even she did not do that to her son.
Logic and reason will triumph in the end, but only if we keep our heads cool. | |
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| Coming out as an atheist
Posted: 7/20/2012 5:22:37 PM | Logic and reason will triumph in the end, but only if we keep our heads cool.
:) What should the punishment be. Not for the lady in the video but for the violent thoughts that were so religiously inspired?
Public humiliation? Dragging into the street? Get a crowd going like that and there will be raping in no time? Being human is great isn't it. Show who is boss. | |
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| Coming out as an atheist
Posted: 7/20/2012 6:30:19 PM |
:) What should the punishment be ... for the violent thoughts that were so religiously inspired?
Religions worry about thought crimes... I do not. | |
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| Coming out as an atheist
Posted: 7/20/2012 7:14:41 PM |
Religions worry about thought crimes... I do not.
Really? So intent has no meaning or use in law? That is just a religious issue? I didn't mean to beat that guy for being gay. I just called him all of those names because it was funny while I was punching him.
Although I do have issues with 'hate crimes' they are thought crimes. You okay with removing them? It is so subjective. | |
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| Coming out as an atheist
Posted: 7/20/2012 7:32:20 PM | You misunderstand, my friend. Intent only matters when it is tied to action. Think what you want... but act upon it and there are consequences.
The woman in the video clearly blew a gasket at the thought of her son not following her metaphysical model of the universe. Addressing the gasket blowing effectively means addressing her motives.
But if she reacted to her son's atheism by leaving the room and weeping because he was going to go to hell in her mind, would a punishment be appropriate? | |
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| Coming out as an atheist
Posted: 7/20/2012 7:45:12 PM |
But if she reacted to her son's atheism by leaving the room and weeping because he was going to go to hell in her mind, would a punishment be appropriate?
Nope. Which is the side I am taking also. But you also said thought crimes were for religion to worry about and not you. That is not correct. Have to at least keep things even. Although I think it is related it is not religion that is the greater issue. It is belief that is the issue. Belief is a problem that I don't think is adequately addressed by atheism and why atheism has its problems in a theistic society and world.
It is the reason why modern atheists half heatedly attack religion but fully attack Christianity. It is easier and safer. Also, the false perception that the rest of logic and life perceived without the illogic of a theists is in itself more true or 'better' for the whole of society.
But that's just me... | |
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| Coming out as an atheist
Posted: 7/20/2012 8:07:54 PM |
It is the reason why modern atheists half heatedly attack religion but fully attack Christianity.
I disagree. Although I am more familiar with Judeo-Christian tenets, so I can speak more confidently about the specifics. Also, Buddhists don't knock on my door or force their symbology in my face.
You are right when you say the thought processes are at the root of the problem. But that won't be solved until we have a (not neccesarily better) more persuasive argument and numbers on our side.
Its only a matter of time until we are mainstream and they are the fringe.
But I wouldn't want an Atheist mom wigging out on her son because he's become a Presbyterian. | |
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| Coming out as an atheist
Posted: 7/20/2012 8:14:57 PM | Coming out as an atheist...
hear that silence?
No one cares.
p.s. Atheists fully attack Christians because atheists are bullies and wimps. Attack the State of Israel you chickenshits! | |
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| Coming out as an atheist
Posted: 7/20/2012 8:22:56 PM | | Israel is that girlfriend you had that seems nice, but because she was once in an abusive relationship acts erratically, irrationally and self-destructive. Being a theocracy is a symptom of that. | |
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| Coming out as an atheist
Posted: 7/20/2012 8:25:19 PM |
You are right when you say the thought processes are at the root of the problem. But that won't be solved until we have a (not neccesarily better) more persuasive argument and numbers on our side.
Exactly. Just a replacement. Replace one belief for another. IOW nothing of value.
Watch the news today? How many people with a gun pointed at them had no ability to think of anything other than 'God'. What will you replace that with? That level of belief is not a problem. That is how it works and is of higher value then 'Steve' or 'Government' which wants to be the first in line to replace. "Oh My California State Governor!" | |
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| Coming out as an atheist
Posted: 7/20/2012 8:28:12 PM | My friend, free your mind from binary thinking.
How would YOU react if you were present at that ragic event? Would you focus on Skydaddy? The Mayor? Or would you, as I suspect, focus on what was happening and how you could problem solve to benefit the collective? i.e. Helping the wounded | |
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| Coming out as an atheist
Posted: 7/20/2012 9:06:45 PM | How would YOU react if you were present at that ragic event?
What binary thinking? That made no sense. Pithy sounding points are really only good for being pinned on boards. Then you use a polemic ad hominem attack meant to trigger a response by saying 'Skydaddy'. Then try to conflate my point by throwing in 'The Mayor' and then try to appeal to my sense of compassion and togetherness by implying that I would only do what was natural and help the 'non special' meat bags that are suffering.
So... to return back to the point. That form of belief where in a tragedy some people think of, pray to, or appeal to God is not a problem. What is a problem is the belief in political ideologies as being above conscience. The collective is BS. They are individual people. They are not biochemical processes that have no value packed closely together. They are not a collective. That is political rationalization of people to make one class seem larger then another. They are people. They are each individually unique and meaningful in their own way. Not just a biomass. Help the wounded? I was talking about beliefs. | |
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| Coming out as an atheist
Posted: 7/20/2012 9:22:13 PM | Well then I don't understand your question.
as for the collective, I meant the plan that helps the most of the people involved. Not trying to get into semantics. | |
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| Coming out as an atheist
Posted: 7/20/2012 9:32:36 PM | Your statement:
But that won't be solved until we have a (not neccesarily better) more persuasive argument and numbers on our side.
My response to your statement.
Exactly. Just a replacement. Replace one belief for another. IOW nothing of value.
My question:
How many people with a gun pointed at them had no ability to think of anything other than 'God'. What will you replace that with?
My support for my question leading towards my point of view.
That level of belief is not a problem. That is how it works and is of higher value then 'Steve' or 'Government' which wants to be the first in line to replace. "Oh My California State Governor!" | |
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| Coming out as an atheist
Posted: 7/20/2012 10:05:55 PM |
Exactly. Just a replacement. Replace one belief for another. IOW nothing of value.
This is what I meant by binary thinking. You're assertion that an imaginary babysitter must be replaced by a secular one. What about having people believe in themselves and their power to overcome adversity? | |
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| Coming out as an atheist
Posted: 7/20/2012 10:09:02 PM | I'll tell you about a couple kids I knew in school a long time ago. It's a bully/picked-on story.
The one kid bullied the other. There was some physical dimension to this, but much of it was games and scheming and stuff like that. He was set-up, and lied about, etc. Over time, it had it's effect...inevitably growns adults, blamelessly, as well as other kids were treating and interacting with the picked-on according to a tone and a false reality which had no substance at all that had been set up purely by perception alone. It was not possible to bring truth and facts into the situation. Truth could not win out.
One day the picked-on beat the bully's a**. Beat him into the ground. He was left no other option. And the problem did in fact go away. It was solved. Violence did in fact solve the problem. The bully was someone who didn't respect truth, fairness, or respect. The more someone tried to reason with him and be diplomatic, the more malign he got. He only respected power, and force. So that's what he got. And it did work. It wasn't a slippery slope. And the picked-on wasn't so gullible to allow himself to paralyzed by a belief that physical violence made him no different from the bully. He knew what really made them different. | |
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| Coming out as an atheist
Posted: 7/20/2012 10:16:12 PM |
Violence did in fact solve the problem.
Ah, but did it? One could argue that it was that kind of thinking- that might makes right- that started the mess in the first place. As for his behaviour, did he understand what he did was wrong or was he just cowed into submission, only to have the bully in him re-appear when he was once again in a powerful position (like my ex-boss). | |
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| Coming out as an atheist
Posted: 7/20/2012 10:41:47 PM |
This is what I meant by binary thinking. You're assertion that an imaginary babysitter must be replaced by a secular one. What about having people believe in themselves and their power to overcome adversity?
You have again missed the point. You think that people will just switch off belief? That the entire thing is just a broken idea that has no psychological impact? Just poof into nothingness?
Power to overcome adversity? I thought you were at least versed in some of the details. What is the power to overcome adversity boil down to in religion? Trust and action. 'just do it.' You may not know the outcome but go out and put in effort and that is about the best you can do.
There is no power to overcome adversity. We don't have super powers. Believing in yourself doesn't give you special abilities. You just spoke like a new age person... By the power of ME!
You're assertion that an imaginary babysitter must be replaced by a secular one You asserted that. You said you just needed a better argument with more support. For what? An idea. An idea that supplants the concept of God right? Well, you asserted the imaginary babysitter and not sure if you noticed but that imaginary babysitter concept seems to say to 'do it yourself'. You said I had binary thinking that I said it must be one belief replacing another but then you say to replace it with people believing in themselves and their power. One belief replacing another. People already know they have no power. That’s why myths are born right? Your assertion that people have special powers is a myth. See how that works?
The babysitter you are dreaming of is a false belief. As far as I am aware all messages for caring and loving God are based in emotional links and psychological grounding of fear and uncertainty and not the earth swallowing enemies although smashing comets would be a cool trick.
Are you absolutely sure your beliefs are not a personal undefined religion? How would you even know the difference? | |
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| Coming out as an atheist
Posted: 7/20/2012 10:52:17 PM |
There is no power to overcome adversity. We don't have super powers. Believing in yourself doesn't give you special abilities. You just spoke like a new age person... By the power of ME!
You are reading into what I said. By believing in yourself I mean a level of self reliance and self introspection that makes religion difficult to take hold as a meme. Don't pray for God if you are in the path of a flood. Better to buy a raft or learn to swim. Preparedness trumps anything a diety can offer. Not just having an emergency kit either... mental preparedness enters into that as well. Every important profession form doctor to astronaut have one thing in common- the supression of the panic reflex that comes with rigourous training.
As far as I am aware all messages for caring and loving God are based in emotional links
Agreed. That's why I'm talking about spreading the atheist meme using something other than logic and reason (because theist backlash and resistance have little to do with that). If we are to reach our target audience we have to show there are emotional reasons to embrace the idea and that life doesn't lose its wonder and joy when the Skydaddy isn't a part of it. | |
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| Coming out as an atheist
Posted: 7/20/2012 11:20:54 PM | Sorry, I don't buy it.
Contempt isn't a selling point.
That's why I'm talking about spreading the atheist meme using something other than logic and reason
Other than logic and reason... so deception and manipulation of emotions? There is nothing to spread. Logically there is nothing to spread. Atheists do not believe in a concept of God. Thats it right. ... sorry... they abhor Christanity and don't like other religions and the message is Christ is a fictional character and God is a collection of bronze age myths. Evil Christians have spread their faith long enough and should be stopped. Muslims are cool because thats just being fair and balanced and what they do in their own home is up to them.
Sorry, you can wrap it up in euphemisms all you want. The message has already spread. If you are unhappy with the message heard well... That is just how cultural memes go.
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