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GGarbo
| | Joined: 10/8/2007
Msg: 51 | |
| | Anyone else notice that Canadians are starting to revolt?Page 3 of 6 (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6) | Sorry this is so long, blame OMG!WTF!. He wants me to provide quotes and links to back up what I say and this is only a teeny portion of what he wants me to back up with quotes and links on. All of this is so interconnected and there has been so many changes and due to restrictions in data, silencing of scientists, lack of studies and analysis…people can’t provide him what he wants. That’s part of the issue. This is all being done without proper consultation and analysis which is bound to end in catastrophe for some of the changes. So here’s my response…
You seem to have something to say but I really don't know what. Try some quotes or some links to the specific stuff you think doesn't work. It's one thing when you say it and another completely when you back it up with specifics and proof from real sources. Immigration is a huge issue with reems of legislation around it. What specifically catches your critical fancy? Same with your original statement on the environment. What specifically indicates to you that Harper is ruining our environment?
Good heavens, its like trying to clean up a spill with a rock…no absorption. I’ll give you immigration as an example because its probably the group people are least concerned about or invested in. As I mentioned before, I’m an avid reader and it would simply take too long to go back and find all the articles, reports, and links to government websites and NGOs I’ve reviewed whenever I see an article that perks my “critical fancy” that I research to come up with my own conclusions as opposed to just listening to what some politician or reporter said. There have been so many changes it would simply take too much time to address them all. It being the long weekend, I don’t want to spend it all on POF. I’ve provided links, quotes and some brief comments…it’s not that organized, I apologize but like I said…I have other plans other than sitting here. Seeing how it’s me who is blind to the currently realities according to you, I would think you would be aware of all of this and not require me to do your research for you.
You want specific examples...just google it. There are all kinds out there. Are you say lazy that you won't even bother to look any of this up and then dare to criticize others for not providing you with data? Get real.
Changes to Census that also impacts Immigrants due to lack of adequate demographic data
July 21, 2010: Munir Sheikh, head of Statistics Canada, resigns over the decision to kill the mandatory long-form census. Due to being a public servant, he could not comment on specifics but the Globe and Mail reports that Shiekh did not resign until he provided advice that the voluntary longform census would not adequately capture data and then Industry Leader Tony Clement announced that an interview with Statistics Canada indicated the survey would yield satisfactory results. He then quit.
"The fact that in the media and in the public that there was this perception that Statistics Canada was supporting a decision that no statistician would, it really casts doubt on the integrity of that agency, and I as head of that agency cannot survive in that job," Mr. Sheikh’s testimony before the Commons industry committee.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munir_Sheikh
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-notebook/munir-sheikh-shows-us-what-integrity-and-leadership-look-like/article1389694/
New powers go to the Minister of Immigration
“Changes proposed in a new immigration bill would give new powers to the minister of immigration, including the ability to deny entry to visitors for public policy reasons and to override the rules to let otherwise inadmissible people come to Canada.”
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2012/06/20/pol-new-law-deport-foreigners-crimes.html
http://www.canadianimmigration.net/Proposed-Immigration-Bill-Will-Allot-New-Powers-To-Immigration-Minister-Kenney-270612.html
From the Citizenship and Immigration Canada website:
“The Immigrant Investor Program seeks experienced business people to invest C$800,000 into Canada’s economy and become permanent residents. Investors must:
• show that they have business experience
• have a minimum net worth of C$1,600,000 that was obtained legally and
• make a C$800,000 investment.”
“Note: As of July 1, 2012, CIC has temporarily stopped accepting applications for the federal Investor program to focus on processing the applications we already have while the program is reviewed. This pause on new applications will continue until further notice. It does not apply to the Quebec Immigrant Investor Program.”
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/business/investors/index.asp
June 28, 2012
“Among other things, Immigration Minister Jason Kenney believes Canada is charging foreign investors too little to come here under the Immigrant Investor Program.”
The investment required was increased from C400,000 to $800,000 in 2010. This is the 2nd time in 2 years a freeze has been put on this program.
“The decision means Citizenship and Immigration's central intake office in Sydney, N.S. won't be bombarded by applications from wealthy foreigners who last year chartered planes so they could be the first to submit their paperwork for the Immigrant Investor Program after it was capped at 700 applicants.“The cash-for-visa scheme is so attractive that last year's application window closed within 30 minutes.”
“Richard Kurland, a Vancouver-based immigration lawyer and longtime critic of the investor program, said the decision makes sense. "Why not hold off until you're ready to launch a new program with higher eligibility thresholds?" he said. "There's plenty of inventory to process. We don't need to add inventory."
In other words, why add more when they can’t process what they have.
“He's less enthusiastic about the temporary pause on federal skilled workers, however, noting Canada needs people like nurses and pharmacists and that there's value in setting a predictable date on which the intake doors are opened. He noted many already have couriered their applications and that this will mean more stress and additional costs for applicants.
The budget bill also will eliminate about 280,000 visa applications submitted under the Federal Skilled Worker Program before February 2008 by refunding their application fees to the tune of $130 million. The move effectively will reduce the skilled worker backlog to about 110,000.”
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/business/Feds+putting+freeze+skilled+worker+immigrant+investor+programs/6850692/story.html
June 30 and July 1, 2012
“Immigration Minister Jason Kenney this week announced an immediate freeze on applications under the Skilled Worker Program and the Immigrant Investor Program to reduce the backlog of applicants seeking to come to Canada under those programs. Kenney had already announced that applications from skilled workers made before 2008 would be cancelled and fees returned. New applications for skilled workers will be accepted again in January, but the investor program freeze is indefinite as the government overhauls a program some see as a way to buy entry to Canada.”
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2012/06/29/pol-list-canada-day-changes.html
This has devastated immigrants who have been waiting for years for the applications to be processed. Families are being kept apart and many have held off making any long term plans in their native countries while waiting for their applications to be processed. We gave them a process…then betrayed them. For the family members who are here legally this is a slap in the face and shows a huge lack of respect.
June 24, 2011 “The backlog of federal skilled worker applications is now half of what it was when we announced the Action Plan for Faster Immigration in 2008,” said Minister Kenney. “These measures will help us to continue that progress.”
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/department/media/releases/2011/2011-06-24a.asp
I don’t have time to find them right now but I’ve read in several articles this is not the case and the backlog has actually been growing in recent years. Someone is spinning data to make misleading comments. I've also read this program is not only frozen but alternatives are being looked into. Things coming from the government are very vague though.
Refugees lose some health benefits
“Kenney said there have been multiple cases where people from European Union countries make a refugee claim in Canada, get free dental care for the children and then withdraw their claim. He said it makes no sense to enable that kind of abuse of the system.”
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2012/06/29/pol-kenney-refugee-health.html
I mean wouldn’t you pick up and move your whole family to a new country claiming to be refuges JUST to get dental care?
The immigration minister's press secretary, Alexis Pavlich, responded Wednesday with a written statement, calling the cuts "reasonable, measured changes that will stop the abuse of Canada's overburdened health care system by bogus refugees."
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2012/06/27/physicians-refugee-health.html
But it impacts all refugees, not just bogus ones so all refugees will be treated as bogus refugees. Refugees who come here with sometimes nothing will be expected to have insurance. That is realistic? This is what happened to the EI system now a lot of first time users who are being laid off to the economy are being devastated financially and hampered from finding work quickly due to everyone being treated as an abuser.
“Immigration Minister Jason Kenney has defended the cuts, saying they will merely cut dental and vision care, services other Canadians would require private insurance to obtain.”
This is untrue, all disadvantaged Canadians have access to services through the Provinces to obtain these services. Refugees will still be eligible for emergency services though so if you thought the wait time at Emerg was bad before, wait until it’s the only way for Refugees to seek medical services. This is likely to impact Provincial medical services, people just aren’t sure how badly. This doesn’t solve the problem at all but just makes it more complicated for Provincial Health systems and Refugees. Again, the government won’t be recording data for the impacts of all this but health care professionals have stepped up to the plate and have made it clear they will be.
http://novascotia.ca/coms/employment/income_assistance/Pharmacare.html
http://www.torontosun.com/2012/06/27/docs-make-last-appeal-against-refugee-health-benefit-cuts
There are more changes but these are the ones I see currently impacting immigrants in a big way that can open the door to abuse…by the gov’t, not refugees. There could be stuff I’m missing though. Like I said…soooooooo many changes that are sooooo interconnected.
[QUOTE]As for your moaning about the end of the long form census and the comparisons of Harper to Hitler,I might remind you that Hitler teamed up with IBM to get a very accurate picture of who was who,and where they were.Made his job a lot easier.[/QUOTE]
Data is indeed powerful VERY powerful, without those records we would not have the mountain of documented proof of the atrocities committed by the Nazis allowing more people to deny a Holocaust ever occurred. In the end, this data was used as evidence to exact justice on behalf of the victims of the Nazis. How much would have been hidden from the world if we didn’t have these records and how many people would have walked free without any accountability for their actions? Thank you for highlighting why this data is so important to designated groups and why it would be in the best interest of anyone who thought they might get harmed to not record the data….Hitler showed the end results of what happens when a dictator actually records his work…its just like arming “subject races”. He had learned from previous dictators to prevent subject races from having weapons hence his gun control measures. It would seem reasonable that future dictators would learn that data can be used as a weapon against them….just sayin.
Provincially, it's a liberal government out here in bc and you should see the cuts and flubs going on here. If I could I'd head to NS myself. but there are plenty supporters of them too, although a lot less these days. So just my opinion.
Provincially NS is primarily NDP and likely to stay that way. We are very community/family oriented here and NDP most closely represents those values. Not everyone likes them but like everyone else people pick who most closely represents them even if they are not spot on. If Trudeau runs you might see a growth in Liberals because he really appeals to the Youth and might increase voting numbers of those who hadn’t previously voted. Conservatives are highly unlikely to get in because even a lot of the Conservatives here don’t agree with Harper.
“Harper wasn’t feeling much love from Atlantic Canadian conservatives this week, either. New Brunswick’s David Alward and Kathy Dunderdale, of Newfoundland and Labrador, questioned federal EI reforms that, they argue, fundamentally misunderstand and devalue the Atlantic Canadian economy."
Premiers will always put regional loyalties before party, but there is little evidence of kinship between Harper and Atlantic conservatives. They don’t even seem to belong to the same party.”
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/opinion/columnists/Harper+enemy+conservatives/6747112/story.html
An attitude in the west seems to think we are all a bunch of lazy people sitting on pogey and we need these cuts to the EI system. I’m pretty sure we are one of the Provinces most impacted by the EI changes along with the other Atlantic Provinces. Although its hard to tell because other policy changes were made to ensure no analysis could be done to measure the impacts of the EI changes. Seems to be a common theme with the Government. Make sweeping changes but first knock out any way we have to analyze the impact of those changes.
http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/05/23/ottawa-cuts-off-provincial-data-just-before-it-announces-controversial-new-rules-for-ei/
The reality is Nova Scotians work for less money and put in more unpaid labour than anywhere else in the country. We also volunteer in our communities more than anywhere else in the Country, Atlantic Canada also has the highest amount of people donating to charities albeit not as much as other provinces can because our people have less money hence why we donate our time instead This all according to Stats Canada. We are definitely not lazy as a rule and the volunteer work we do can be converted into cash contributions to the economy and our communities but it’s not like we get a tax cut for it and I’m not aware of anyone asking for one either.
**** sorry for any misspellings and have this badly organized. Since I started this post I felt obligated to respond to atleast some of the comments. | |
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| Anyone else notice that Canadians are starting to revolt?
Posted: 7/1/2012 2:19:30 PM | @GGarbo.Most of that complaining is about immigration.Shouldn't our first concerns be about Canucks?We still have job sectors that need people,we should aim to get our own into these fields.
An attitude in the west seems to think we are all a bunch of lazy people sitting on pogey and we need these cuts to the EI system. I’m pretty sure we are one of the Provinces most impacted by the EI changes along with the other Atlantic Provinces
You cannot deny that EI has been abused in the east big time in years past.You don't think we talk to people from PEI or Cape Breton here?It will be tough to get things normal,all those years of Libs buying votes there screwed things up .
Data is indeed powerful VERY powerful, without those records we would not have the mountain of documented proof of the atrocities committed by the Nazis allowing more people to deny a Holocaust ever occurred.
It is powerful,and it's very tough to keep people that have no right to be looking at the data out.You don't think that any people that work in gov ever abuse data and pass it along?
BTW,after Harper first got in they sent an army of Rev Canada people here to harass us.They were real f@#king pricks.They even ASKED who we voted for(They can find out).These are the kind of people you want collecting more data for vendettas?
When the Libs and the NDP get their greasy hands on power you can bet Alberta,Sask and likely BC will be leaving.Find some other Ukrainians to drain. | |
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| Anyone else notice that Canadians are starting to revolt?
Posted: 7/1/2012 9:23:07 PM |
Many Canadians are comparing their PM to Hitler
You realize that Harper would be considered a Liberal Democrat in the US right?
Conservative policies aren't that far right of Obama's policies. Actually, many of them are still to the left. | |
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| Anyone else notice that Canadians are starting to revolt?
Posted: 7/1/2012 9:39:00 PM | Thanks GGarbo. I'm liking the information.
Changes to Census that also impacts Immigrants due to lack of adequate demographic data
How do you know there is a lack of demographic data? Most of the results of the first voluntary census won't even be released until 2013. I realize you're getting your info from the former stats guy who's likely mad some of his stats were theoretically taken away but whenever you read his rantings, they are all forward looking statements based on theory. "Research shows will will not get the required information" etc. We haven't even released any voluntary census information yet! That won't be available until 2013. And logically the responses given on a voluntary form would be more accurate than one pissed off people fill out with guns to their heads. In 1996 Canada had 21,000 people who described their occupation as Jedi. In addition the voluntary census is sent out to 40% more households. And here's the kicker....from the head of Stats Canada....
The longer form was collected on a voluntary basis. The census, the ten questions, the population count, there were basically no differences. Very high quality, we had a very high participation rate. Actually more than 98% of Canadians completed their census, and we had good results all throughout the country."
98% response from 40% more households? What's the problem again? Oh yeah, nuthin'.
New powers go to the Minister of Immigration
I'm beyond thrilled that immigrant criminals will now be deported without appeal if they're served a 6month or greater sentence. That couldn't be any better. Absolutely excellent.
June 30 and July 1, 2012
This has devastated immigrants who have been waiting for years for the applications to be processed
Actually it hasn't devastated anyone. It's good news for these people and they know it. As you said...they've been waiting for years. 300k people will now get to reapply under a better procedure that will have them approved or denied in 6 months. Some of these people have been waiting since 2008. This is a positive step.
Refugees lose some health benefits
“Kenney said there have been multiple cases where people from European Union countries make a refugee claim in Canada, get free dental care for the children and then withdraw their claim. He said it makes no sense to enable that kind of abuse of the system.”
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2012/06/29/pol-kenney-refugee-health.html
I mean wouldn’t you pick up and move your whole family to a new country claiming to be refuges JUST to get dental care?
You bet your 'ss people will move based on what country offers them the best deal. Do you think people just blindly get on a plane or boat and just happen to wind up in Canada? Or a better question...do you think only providing emergency medical care like the rest of us working Canadians have would make people not come here?
Refugees who come here with sometimes nothing will be expected to have insurance. That is realistic?
Nope. But they can apply for the extended welfare benefits and comprehensive coverage like all of our own citizens do. They staged a protest in Toronto about this issue and 50 people showed up. Guess it's not really tugging at the heart strings of your average working class joe. The days of "Bring us your downtrodden" bs are completely over. We can't afford it.
This is what happened to the EI system now a lot of first time users who are being laid off to the economy are being devastated financially and hampered from finding work quickly due to everyone being treated as an abuser
This is silly. Please read, or re-read the actual rule changes. No one is being treated as an abuser unless they are an abuser. And yes, seasonal workers have abused the system for years. EI is not meant as a bridge between fishing seasons. EI is not something you're entitled to simply because your boat is parked and you're not into mowing lawns. The over all result will be beneficial for the economy and the gdp and will actually help the people who legitimately need it and are not abusing the system. Again, fabulous changes that are well and long over due.
And still no info on how Harper is killing the environment or opening secret goulags to harbour our human rights complainers.
Good heavens, its like trying to clean up a spill with a rock…no absorption
There was nothing to absorb. You were just ranting. Now I get what you're throwin' down. | |
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| Anyone else notice that Canadians are starting to revolt?
Posted: 7/1/2012 9:39:40 PM | "the cost of one F35 could pay to hire 1,400 nurses in Canada for a year. A contribution of 1/6th of the cost of the F35s or 1/5th of the annual defence budget could provide free tuition to all post secondary students across the country for a year. $2 Billion alone would retrofit all homes in Alberta needing energy efficiency upgrades, lowering emissions, and creating up to 22,000 direct and indirect jobs."
I didn't know that nurses were federal employees or that the government is responsible for giving free tuition or retrofitting homes. I would have thought that fell on Universities or Utilities to do.
Governments are responsible to many things and one of them is for the defense of their borders, with a capable military. As for your comment on jobs, the last I saw, the Canadian unemployment rate of 7.3% is much lower than the American rate of 8.2%. That switch of Canada having a lower unemployement rate happened under Harper's watch and it is the lowest in the G8, so I guess he has been doing something right. | |
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GGarbo
| | Joined: 10/8/2007
Msg: 57 | |
| Anyone else notice that Canadians are starting to revolt?
Posted: 7/1/2012 11:11:21 PM | @ OMG!WTF!
Just got home from festivities and I will respond to your messages but see you have left me no quotes or links to prove any of your points. Where are they? How come you can't produce what you demand and are now asking for even further info.
YOU need to reread the EI policies. First time users of the EI system don't know things like they need to exhaust their vacation pay or use it prior to going on EI. Many lose their first EI cheque for receiving a puny vacation pay cheque despite living pay cheque to pay cheque. That leaves them with under $485 to live off with 485 being the max which many likely will not receive. With the two week hold back that leaves 3 weeks with no pay for people living pay cheque to pay cheque with no EI. If they get a job in their 4th week of EI and reach the cap they again receive no money. This is not hard to do considering the cap is so low. Many standard pay policies have a hold back of 2 weeks for pension reasons making you have to wait 1 month to receive your first pay cheque despite being on biweekly pay. That means the many of the people getting to work the fastest have to go 2 months with only 485 or less to live off of (none of which came from EI) while they try to travel back and forth to their new jobs, pay rent, pay gas, pay insurance, pay utilities, food etc. I'd say this is a pretty substantial impact to those who are not abusers of the EI system. | |
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| Anyone else notice that Canadians are starting to revolt?
Posted: 7/2/2012 5:44:18 AM | You're confusing Employment Insurance with welfare again. It's a common east coast thing. EI is not welfare. It's insurance. It's like when you get house insurance and you want the smallest monthly payment which consequently comes with the largest deductable. Then your roof needs a repair and you get mad that you have to pay 5k to get a new one. Honestly, people living pay check to pay check need other forms of assistance which are easily available from several agencies. But in your scenario, the poor guy who doesn't know all the tricks regarding vacation pay might have to wait a bit and that's what we call, life. If I want to fix my roof I'd better have the money ready to cover the deductable or my house will collapse. If the insurance people get isn't adequate it would benefit them to increase their monthly contribution in the form of a savings account or as said before, get some welfare benefits which I support whole heartedly.
The majority of changes have to do with who is using ei. The frequent users may have to get jobs rather than use other people's insurance money and that's a good thing. There are lots of references to these changes if you need them but it sounds like you've brushed up on them fairly well as any good east coaster should.
but see you have left me no quotes or links to prove any of your points. Where are they? How come you can't produce what you demand and are now asking for even further info
You've got the quote from the statscan guy that shows exactly where you've gone astray in your census issue. I wasn't challenging your facts as much as not understanding what you were mad about. Like you just said immigration policy sucked and I didn't know what you meant. Your reference allowed me to see that you're mad because criminals can be deported easier. I don't need a quote or reference to prove that you are in fact correct, people can get deported much easier now. We agree. You just think it's a bad thing whereas I couldn't be more pleased. | |
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| Anyone else notice that Canadians are starting to revolt?
Posted: 7/2/2012 2:23:55 PM |
Hint about Europeans. I'm from France and my Girlfriend is from Denmark
Regarding France, Spain & several other countries, I saw a documentary not long ago, that pointed out when the countries leaders decide to make changes to social programs that will affect not some but the whole population. The streets are full of people in a show of peaceful solidarity against the proposed changes & in most cases the leaders back down. Does this sort of thing happen? If so what do they know that we Canadians don't? Besides the fact we're to complacent & have no balls when it comes to allowing our leaders to continue with their " take all, leave nothing" policy! I was born in this country as was my Grandfather centuries ago who won the Victorian cross so that generations of my family could live free & prosper as Canadians. I want my country back! | |
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| Anyone else notice that Canadians are starting to revolt?
Posted: 7/2/2012 2:38:28 PM |
Besides the fact we're to complacent & have no balls when it comes to allowing our leaders to continue with their " take all, leave nothing" policy! I was born in this country as was my Grandfather centuries ago who won the Victorian cross so that generations of my family could live free & prosper as Canadians. I want my country back!
It seems not long ago many were complaining about not getting the deficit under control.Now people don't like the cuts.Any ideas from the east besides taxing the life out of the west?Some people will complain forever. | |
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| Anyone else notice that Canadians are starting to revolt?
Posted: 7/2/2012 3:53:14 PM |
It seems not long ago many were complaining about not getting the deficit under control
I was not one of them & there will always be one, as for how much it is that depends on what sounds like a good number to release to the press on any given day. I don't believe a word of it. I have no doubt you are being taxed to death out west. My issue is what's going on behind the scenes here in Ontario with cuts to health care & social programs (& I don't mean Welfare) Our health minister Deb Mathews has been involved in several under the table deals & approved payoffs & pensions it's no wonder there's no money for health care. | |
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| Anyone else notice that Canadians are starting to revolt?
Posted: 7/2/2012 4:10:35 PM |
I saw a documentary not long ago, that pointed out when the countries leaders decide to make changes to social programs that will affect not some but the whole population. The streets are full of people in a show of peaceful solidarity against the proposed changes & in most cases the leaders back down. Does this sort of thing happen
Sort of in France but not in northern Europe. In the Latin countries there is a much bigger ideological divide than in Canada. In Canadas the divide (like the USA) is more regional. In Canada a plumber in Novas Scotia might vote Liberal, his brother who moved to Alberta vote Conservative, and his cousin in BC vote NDP (if he had a cousin in queberc...B.Q.). in France they would likely all vote socialist....shop keepers vote the equivalent of conservative, etc.
Anyways, in France you get huge 'blocks' of people who protest as in all the Taxi drivers, all the farmers, etc. If a half million show up at protests....then over 99% still stayed home butthese blocks disrupt society and that's how they get attention. In contrast, in Canada, if a couple thousand idealistic lefties show up at some 'occupy movement'...nobody but the press gives as hoot. The only inconvenience is having to toss a handed-out pamphlet in the trash can. | |
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| Anyone else notice that Canadians are starting to revolt?
Posted: 7/2/2012 4:23:33 PM | Oh,
Our national economy has never, in all of our history been in such terrible shape
our largest province, Ontario, is now a have not province, it has the lagest economy, and population,employement statistics, have been used 'creatively',but our current government to lie to the people
we can call our dollar , petro dollar, it will fall, as soon as commodity prices fall
our current government, has been on a spending spree not seen since world war 2!!
it has or is spending more tax dollars then any and all of our social spending combined
, in all of our history! | |
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GGarbo
| | Joined: 10/8/2007
Msg: 65 | |
| Anyone else notice that Canadians are starting to revolt?
Posted: 7/2/2012 5:14:12 PM |
You're confusing Employment Insurance with welfare again. It's a common east coast thing.
If I didn’t have better things to do, keeping track of the hypocrisy in your statements might be a fun pastime. You accuse me of insulting millions yet find it perfectly acceptable to insult the entire east coast region by categorizing and slamming them all in your post while simply trying to provoke one individual. However the underlying resentment in your comment highlights the ignorance and lack of empathy some in the west have towards the east coast making them poor candidates to manage our affairs. It also highlights how gullible some people are that, as much more serious issues are going on, they are so easily distracted into blaming other people for problems for which they have no control over but are victims of. Politicians rely on that level of ignorance, thank you for not disappointing them.
There are lots of references to these changes if you need them but it sounds like you've brushed up on them fairly well as any good east coaster should.
So let me get this straight. First you were criticizing me for not knowing what I am talking about and now that I prove to you that I do, you are criticizing me for that too insuating that it's because on the eastcoast so have to know EI rules? I don't work in seasonal employment and have only been on EI once in my life and back to work before I got my first cheque. It’s how I found out that we no longer have an EI system that supports legitimate users and that came from the last round of changes. I lost my job due to the recession, not because I live on the eastcoast. It was back then that the government lied in the House of Parliament about the impacts their changes were having on those losing their jobs during the recession. It seemed the only thing they learned from that was to make sure they stopped the release of EI data so this time people would have fewer resources to prove they are lying before they made the next round of changes.
You are trying to associate my real concerns as to the impact these changes have on non-repeat users who get back to work quickly with some unidentified connection that I support abuse and using EI as an income supplement as part of your career plan. Coming from a province where we require seasonal employees to support industry and education, I support a different system for seasonal workers that they have to pay higher EI deductions for and the industries that employ seasonals need to kick in some money too...perhaps then they won't be so easily convinced to lay off an employee just so they can get EI. The system needs to be designed to be self-sustaining or else it will be constantly criticized. The seasonal industry is needed and people aren't lazy who work in it. We need to recognize the value of it and plan accordingly because if not, it will impact our exports, tourism, education, science (many scientists are seasonal too), communities and GDP. Why is that so unreasonable compared to punishing everyone on EI regardless of why they are on it and treating seasonal employees as "abusers" when they are needed in the industry?
When it comes to abusers, I think they need to be dealt with on a case by case basis so all the innocent users are not having to suffer because of them instead of instituting lazy blanket policies that undermine the purpose of why EI was created in the first place. If changes will only impact 1% of users as I understand it, why is dealing with them on a case by case basis such a big deal that you have to institute blanket policies?
EI is not welfare. It's insurance. It's like when you get house insurance and you want the smallest monthly payment which consequently comes with the largest deductable. Then your roof needs a repair and you get mad that you have to pay 5k to get a new one.
No it’s not like house insurance because I don’t have a choice in my premiums and can’t shop around for better policies. Why would I pay into a policy that will not provide me enough money to live off of and I would not receive payments timely enough that I could get back to work quickly? I wouldn’t pay for a policy that bad. People who can afford it realize this and save money because the EI system is going to provide very little support if they get laid off.
I’m concerned that EI is being dismantled a little bit at a time to get us used to a time it will no longer be there at all. That’s why no one really cares if the changes work or not or are putting much effort into solutions that will actually work to achieve stated goals. I’m concerned these cutbacks are not to prevent abuse or get people back to work faster but that it’s all just smoke and mirrors as the system is dismantled. It’s like when everyone was scratching their heads when they got rid of the longform census and people were wondering how they could possible continue work in various areas and it just didn’t make sense if the goal was as stated to continue to capture the data. Then when it couldn’t be debated, Employment Equity took a big blow and now we see it’s because the data systems are being dismantled. This government has a very scary pattern in the way it operates. Every time there is a policy change, you have to research all their other policy changes to see what the real impacts are because its being done strategically so people can’t get the whole picture at once. THAT is what is scaring people even more than the policy changes themselves. It’s now obvious there is some Agenda at play here that is not being made public.
Honestly, people living pay check to pay check need other forms of assistance which are easily available from several agencies. But in your scenario, the poor guy who doesn't know all the tricks regarding vacation pay might have to wait a bit and that's what we call, life. If I want to fix my roof I'd better have the money ready to cover the deductable or my house will collapse. If the insurance people get isn't adequate it would benefit them to increase their monthly contribution in the form of a savings account or as said before, get some welfare benefits which I support whole heartedly.
Again false, if you are a person with no children you can't get access to any of those except maybe the food bank but there is no “roof over your head bank”. A study by Dr. Lynn McIntyre of Dalhousie University showed that the biggest portion of our society suffering from food insecurity comes from households where there are 2 parents working making them ineligible for social programs. If they fall into that category they are getting a puny amount from EI and will indeed have to rely on other social programs to get by provided their spouse doesn’t just squeek by some maximum income amount. Unfortunately, for many people just getting by this is a likely scenario. They will be ineligible due to spousal income. It is not unheard in this country of couples splitting up just to get access to benefits because if they stayed together they wouldn't be able to survive. I think you are overestimating the social policies we have and who is eligible to benefit from them.
The majority of changes have to do with who is using ei. The frequent users may have to get jobs rather than use other people's insurance money and that's a good thing.
Oh you mean like all those lazy School teachers who volunteer for no pay to coordinate/supervise children’s events throughout the year, don’t get paid overtime for staying late to mark papers, and have growing class sizes with no wage increases to match? They are only off in the summer so lets go to the Canada job bank and see what we have for them. It’s strawberry season! Go out into the fields and pick strawberries. Wait, they are educated so we will let them count the strawberry boxes. Most are already living off of savings 2 months a year because EI is so low. They will be doing upaid work at the end and the start of the School year.
You don’t get to cherry pick who these changes impact because these policies don’t.
You've got the quote from the statscan guy that shows exactly where you've gone astray in your census issue
Where have I gone astray? He indicated that we could no longer get accurate results with a voluntary census. The government tried to lie about it...he quit because they lied. We know he advised the PM against it and was ignored. I only provided both links to show how not one but two things were bad here and that I didn't rely solely on information from one source but looked at several. The census changes having a negative impact AND that the government tried to lie about it….again, more lies.
Your reference allowed me to see that you're mad because criminals can be deported easier.
That's cheap, weak and again...not based on fact. It ignores all the negative parts of these policies and says I support criminals from being deported when I have given no indication I have. Quote me somewhere please where I say I'm against criminals being deported? I'm against the aspects of these policies that impact innocent people and I do believe I made reference to that somewhere in my post. We can't treat all refugees like criminals just so we can punish the ones that are. THAT is a far cry from saying I'm "mad because criminals can be deported easier". By your logic I can say you think all refugees and immigrants are criminals. I won't though because there is not enough evidence (yet) to draw that conclusion. I instead suspect that your logic is so subject to your biases and ego you can’t admit you really have no real arguments so are grasping at straws. All I can hope that outside this forum when your ego isn’t at stake, you start to question all of this a bit more and stop being so gullible to the BS you are being fed. Start reading more and follow up on news stories you hear to see what the truth is behind it all. | |
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| Anyone else notice that Canadians are starting to revolt?
Posted: 7/2/2012 6:16:40 PM |
Where have I gone astray? He indicated that we could no longer get accurate results with a voluntary census
Here's where you went totally astray. My quote from the statscan guy was from the new statscan guy, Marc Hamel,not Munir Sheikh, the old paranoid guy. This is the new guy who has received the new voluntary census forms that were sent out in 2011 and he has gotten 98% of them back without phoning and badgering people, without sending people to private residences to beat answers out of people and without throwing anyone in jail. The old guy you're talking about was mad because the government changed his job and he didn't like it. He spewed on and on about how it would be impossible to get data without a mandatory census. He had a bunch of eggheads back him up with theory of information collection. And big surprise...he was patently wrong and consequently people like you get all tizzied up about how the government has an agenda to stop collecting information and how this will misrepresent certain groups etc etc etc. It's all garbage. Have you noticed you haven't heard a peepfrom Munir Sheikh since 2010? Wonder why? We have more information from this census than ever with less cost and without forcing people to give up their private information against their will. 98% of 40% more census forms returned from all demographics of our society. What's the problem again?
That's cheap, weak and again...not based on fact. It ignores all the negative parts of these policies and says I support criminals from being deported when I have given no indication I have
This is the article you referenced right underneath your complaint about new powers going to the immigration minister....
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2012/06/20/pol-new-law-deport-foreigners-crimes.html
This is what it says in the article...
Citizenship and Immigration Minister Jason Kenney tabled legislation in the House Wednesday that would make it easier for the government to deport refugees, permanent residents and visitors for "serious criminality," crimes where the punishment is six months or more in jail
Sorry if I got it wrong. As for the other stuff you're scared about...
Other proposed changes under the act include:
A rule that would deny an appeal to those with foreign convictions for crimes that would carry a maximum sentence of 10 years in Canada.
A rule that would deny entry to Canada to those with a family member inadmissible for security and human rights reasons or organized crime connections, even if that family member isn't travelling with them.
A five-year inadmissibility period for lying on immigration applications.
Mandatory CSIS interviews if requested.
Reporting conditions for those under deportation orders.
Automatic inadmissibility for non-Canadians and permanent residents for acts of espionage or acts against Canada's interests.
Sounds perfect to me. I hate war criminals. I'm not as concerned about someone who might get an unfair shake as I am about allowing criminals in and keeping criminals here for any longer than necessary. Sorry. But me and mine are just more important. People have been murdered by immigrants awaiting deportation hearings.
Oh you mean like all those lazy School teachers who volunteer for no pay to coordinate/supervise children’s events throughout the year, don’t get paid overtime for staying late to mark papers, and have growing class sizes with no wage increases to match? They are only off in the summer so lets go to the Canada job bank and see what we have for them. It’s strawberry season! Go out into the fields and pick strawberries. Wait, they are educated so we will let them count the strawberry boxes. Most are already living off of savings 2 months a year because EI is so low. They will be doing upaid work at the end and the start of the School year.
You don’t get to cherry pick who these changes impact because these policies don’t.
You have got to be kidding me. This is ridiculous. Here's a link to what teacher's earn in Canada...
http://www.nucleuslearning.com/content/canadian-teacher-salary-rankings-provinces-and-territories
Why in the world would someone with a wage starting at 47k in NOVA SCOTIA need ei during the summer? 47k plus pension benefits, comprehensive medical care and every possible gift available through every conceivable reason to gain a day of paid leave? That would be a pretty freaking terrible, shameful abuse of our ei system. Try being a teacher in any poor state in the union to the south of us. I've got friends with master's degrees earning 27k a year and still having to coach for free, do year book, referee games, sell hot dogs. And they have no benefits. You scream entitlement beyond anything I've ever read.
Start reading more and follow up on news stories you hear to see what the truth is behind it all
Start seeing the truth in front of the story as well. When people dig deeper they tend to find whatever they want to find...case and point...your census paranoia. | |
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GGarbo
| | Joined: 10/8/2007
Msg: 67 | |
| Anyone else notice that Canadians are starting to revolt?
Posted: 7/2/2012 6:33:59 PM |
@GGarbo.Most of that complaining is about immigration.Shouldn't our first concerns be about Canucks?We still have job sectors that need people,we should aim to get our own into these fields.
I've only been focusing on Immigration because I was asked to prove my points and back up everything I said with links etc. I used immigration as an example because everything else is so complex and interconnected it would have taken me forever. I completely agree with you, Canadians come first. We have a growing Aboriginal population that is building capacity. I think we need to match them up with industry better so they can get access to experience/jobs. I feel they are a great resource internally for filling the gaps left by the babyboomer generation retiring and fasting growing population demographic in Canada. They need jobs/we need people to fill jobs. I'm a little concerned that changes to the Federal Contractors Program that encouraged hiring them will impact that actually.
I think we have to start valuing the trades more and stop this nonsense of if you are University educated you're not educated. We are screening too many people out of jobs that don't require a University education simply so people can justify having a degree.
You cannot deny that EI has been abused in the east big time in years past.You don't think we talk to people from PEI or Cape Breton here?It will be tough to get things normal,all those years of Libs buying votes there screwed things up .
As I mentioned in another post, I have no issues with the abusers being dealt with. I talked to a guy just last week who totally pissed me off because he seemed more excited about getting a year off to do training EI was paying for than the training itself. These are societal dropouts and they don't tend to vote either. It's too much effort.
Places like PEI are reliant on seasonal employees. The areas they work in make up for a significant portion of PEI's industry. I don't think treating seasonal employees as abusers of EI is going to do anything to rectify that. It would be unfair to compare the Atlantic provinces with ones going through a commodities boom. A lot of Maritimers are already out West filling jobs.
BTW,after Harper first got in they sent an army of Rev Canada people here to harass us.They were real f@#king pricks.They even ASKED who we voted for(They can find out).These are the kind of people you want collecting more data for vendettas?
You do see you are not complaining about the data collected but harassment, favoritism, and retaliation....from your government? I can see why people out there would be against the Liberals and they fear the NDPs because when you're going through a commodities boom, the last thing you want to do is risk the benefits of that. I'd probably feel the same way. I can't picture Alberta ever trusting the Liberals again so maybe something could be worked out with the NDP to protect the commodities trade. I never said anyone has simple or easy decisions to make. I think its appalling that people are being put in this position. All I guess I can do is to ask you to at least consider that the people of Eastern Canada are not a bunch of lazy people sitting on EI and just like you shouldn't have to pay for us, we shouldn't be punished and frowned upon for not having a strong commodities trade. | |
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GGarbo
| | Joined: 10/8/2007
Msg: 68 | |
| Anyone else notice that Canadians are starting to revolt?
Posted: 7/2/2012 7:15:09 PM |
Here's where you went totally astray. My quote from the statscan guy was from the new statscan guy, Marc Hamel,not Munir Sheikh, the old paranoid guy. This is the new guy who has received the new voluntary census forms that were sent out in 2011 and he has gotten 98% of them back without phoning and badgering people, without sending people to private residences to beat answers out of people and without throwing anyone in jail. The old guy you're talking about was mad because the government changed his job and he didn't like it. He spewed on and on about how it would be impossible to get data without a mandatory census. He had a bunch of eggheads back him up with theory of information collection. And big surprise...he was patently wrong and consequently people like you get all tizzied up about how the government has an agenda to stop collecting information and how this will misrepresent certain groups etc etc etc. It's all garbage. Have you noticed you haven't heard a peepfrom Munir Sheikh since 2010? Wonder why?
Geez it must really suck being wrong all the time.
Results from the voluntary census will not be released until 2013, the data you are referring to is from the mandatory short form census. Making your post...irrelevant ...shocker. I just got called by the person collecting the data a couple of weeks ago so unless I'm last on the list....there is still a whole lot more collecting and compiling to do before we have any idea of the impacts.
"The census is conducted every five years, counting Canadians and collecting details on where they live, how old they are, and information about various aspects of their lifestyle. It paints a detailed portrait of the country, telling Canadians about our housing, origins, religion, habits, work and quality of life. The 2011 census was conducted last May, and was filled out by 98 per cent of Canadians, said Hamel.
However, this release will different than those in the past, as 2011 was the first census year after Prime Minister Stephen Harper replaced the long-form census with the non-mandatory National Household Survey, the results of which will be released in 2013."
Read more: http://www.ctvnews.ca/canadians-heading-west-in-droves-2011-census-shows-1.765627#ixzz1zWJXPZWi
Sheikh was a public servant and to speak about this publicly would violate policy. He has been very professional in this regard and most of what we do know comes from his testimony before the Industry Committee...not from him publicly broadcasting his opinions. He is highly respected in his field.
You've worn me out...I'm too tired to respond to anymore posts today. You're just for when I get bored now. | |
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| Anyone else notice that Canadians are starting to revolt?
Posted: 7/2/2012 7:35:54 PM | You do see you are not complaining about the data collected but harassment, favoritism, and retaliation....from your government?
No ,Conservative gov,LIBERAL voting fed employees.On a vendetta to get all those evil westerners.
I can see why people out there would be against the Liberals and they fear the NDPs because when you're going through a commodities boom, the last thing you want to do is risk the benefits of that. I'd probably feel the same way. I can't picture Alberta ever trusting the Liberals again so maybe something could be worked out with the NDP to protect the commodities trade.
You can see that we wouldn't trust the Libs again after the NEP?And after the hammerhead plans that Muclair has spouted we should feel optimistic?The guy can't understand that the world economy stinks overall,and that Alberta money flows to many places....destroying the economy here will help the rest of Canada?
All I guess I can do is to ask you to at least consider that the people of Eastern Canada are not a bunch of lazy people sitting on EI and just like you shouldn't have to pay for us, we shouldn't be punished and frowned upon for not having a strong commodities trade.
There are plenty of easterners and Quebecois here.I get along fine with all of them and they are not discriminated against.....unless you consider all the newfs hiring their own first in Fort Mac that is.Easterners are free to come here.I had to leave Quebec,I know what it's like.
But people in the east had better understand that Alberta is not going to endure another NEP here.Some of the worst times of my life. | |
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| Anyone else notice that Canadians are starting to revolt?
Posted: 7/2/2012 8:13:35 PM |
Geez it must really suck being wrong all the time.
Results from the voluntary census will not be released until 2013, the data you are referring to is from the mandatory short form census
You're right. I'm wrong. Sort of. But, the house hold survey that did replace the long form census has had a 70% response rate...more than than the old madatory long form census. We actually have more information than we did with the mandatory long form in 2006...
"We ended up with just about 2.6 million respondents," Census Manager Marc Hamel told QMI Agency. "We have, in effect, more respondents in 2011 than we had under the mandatory census long form in 2006."
So though I was wrong about the 98% response, the reality is the same. More people responded to the voluntary census than did the mandatory one. And as for the paranoid fears about misrepresenting groups...
Hamel noted the voluntary survey also had a good response rate from low-income people and immigrant communities -- two groups many feared would be under-represented in the survey.
"We had a strategy to target specific areas to ensure that we were going to obtain good response rates from these areas where there (are) populations possibly more at risk of being under-represented and our response rates in all of these areas are all very good," said Hamel. "That's also a good outcome from the collection."
So again, what's the problem you're having with the census? How is this leading to a cultural annd human rights melt down in Canada? | |
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| Anyone else notice that Canadians are starting to revolt?
Posted: 7/4/2012 9:25:21 AM | Sciencetreker, Harper is from Ontario not Alberta, he was born in Toronto and his family moved to alberta
the best prime ministers came from Quebec and Jack Layton would of made a great prime minister another Quebec born leader its a shame he passed away when his party made great strides | |
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| Anyone else notice that Canadians are starting to revolt?
Posted: 7/4/2012 7:34:22 PM |
Sciencetreker, Harper is from Ontario not Alberta, he was born in Toronto and his family moved to alberta
the best prime ministers came from Quebec and Jack Layton would of made a great prime minister another Quebec born leader its a shame he passed away when his party made great strides
I believe he was born in the |Maritimes,family moved to Toronto,he later came to Calgary.
Best PM's from Quebec?
Chretien and Shawinagate.
Mulroney and the Schreiber affair.
Let's not mention Martin talking about fair income tax strategies while running foreign flagged vessels here to avoid taxes.
If Layton could have stayed out of massage parlors he would only have been halfway there. | |
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| Anyone else notice that Canadians are starting to revolt?
Posted: 7/4/2012 8:10:25 PM | yes lol
Martin was a crook, the difeence is Harper, is taking CANADA apart
spending, has spiraled out of control
he is pending more than anybody, since WW2
on what????
fighter bomber that no one, not even the Americans want, war,oil and gas pipelines to nowhere, and so on
this is the worst most wasteful government in our history!
our country is becoming a police state
everything the world had respected this country, and defined us as a nation, is being taken appart
health care, peacekeepers, freedom,fairness, are all ready a thing of the past
rebel at the ballot box!!
send him back to redneck land.... | |
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| Anyone else notice that Canadians are starting to revolt?
Posted: 7/5/2012 6:12:48 AM |
on what????
fighter bomber that no one, not even the Americans want
No. We haven't bought any yet and at this point likely won't.
war
The war in Afghanistan was begun by the last liberal government and will be ended by this government. But it's hilarious that you're lamenting the lack of a Canadian peacekeeping force yet also slamming our involvement in Afghanistan. You more than anyone should have a running list of the wonderful things our military is doing in that country including polio vaccinations, clearing land mines, decommissioning heavy weapons, building and funding schools and safe education, agricultural projects, training police and local military forces and the list literally goes on and on.
oil and gas pipelines to nowhere
The Canadian government doesn't build pipelines. Private/public companies do. China spends more money lobbying for our pipelines than we do. We spend more money on grants for environmental groups that oppose pipelines.
health care
Health care is a provincial mandate. The implementation of health care is something you need to rage at your premier about. Some funding comes federally and if you live in Quebec or these days Ontario, your health care comes courtesy of "redneck land". You're welcome. | |
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