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| learning to play guitar
Posted: 1/27/2006 6:59:55 AM | Here's the thing Murph, all those chords you learned to play are made up of individual notes, the ones that fit inside the box that those chords define are collectively referred to as key, (and I think mode)....theory can be pretty complicated, and the pentatonic scale is a good place to start because it drops alot of the notes that bring the complications and lets you get familiar with the neck of the guitar in alot of keys. There's tons to it, think of your time with the guitar as a relationship, your fingers, the strings, and any undefinable sound that you can get from the marriage of the two....no rules on experimentation and discovery. One very very important rule, USE ALL YOUR FINGERS ON THE FRETBOARD. excersize them all, pinky and thumb included....trust me on this one...you dont want to wake up ten years from now and find out that you need that pinky thats been zombieing while you liked what you played before.
Fall in love with the music, get together with someone whos already in love with it and plays better and is willing to help, if you have the money get lessons from someone with credentials - who they taught and how they teach. For me the door flew open when I learned that my heart was contained in the voices I could get singing through the amp, but thats a long long way off from figuring out a dm7 to c chord change.
Rock on, the guitar is an ever faithful companion that you will come to love dearly. Good luck with it.
If you want to get crosseyed and confused, check out the warehouse of links at guitarnotes.com, theres something there for everyone that owns a guitar pick. | |
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| learning to play guitar
Posted: 1/27/2006 7:02:23 AM | | thanks sloopjah, sounds like a good technique, I will certainly try it out. | |
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| learning to play guitar
Posted: 1/27/2006 10:27:26 PM | you dont want to wake up ten years from now and find out that you need that pinky thats been zombieing while you liked what you played before.
an interesting exercise to develop pinky independance:
hold your first three fingers over top of the B string, and your pinky over the A. Start pressing down on the B string one finger at a time, but the key is to hold your pinky in the same spot...if it moves, you're defeating the purpose of the exercise. Don't press down on the A, just hold your pinky over top of it.....
It gets extremely difficult when you try to press your third finger down....
....try jamming with only two fingers....it tests your creativity....and makes you REALLY think about what to play when you feel that your muscle memory is just taking over your brain....
Symptom of "bad" technique, ....you want NO callusses.
Hmmm, how do you avoid callusses? Especially when you start off playing a steel string acoustic? are you pressing too hard?
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| learning to play guitar
Posted: 1/27/2006 11:30:18 PM | Hmmm, how do you avoid callusses? Especially when you start off playing a steel string acoustic? are you pressing too hard?
Probably, but that's just a symptom of bad ergonomics.
There is a "way" to hold a guitar.
A "way" to have your wrist at the proper angle.
You should use enough force to fret strings, no more, no less.
Having the guitar in the wrong position, the wrist at the wrong angle, means the leverage of the thumb is all wrong. It's the muscles of the thumb and the meat of the palm that should be doing the work. The fingers should be relaxed, and the muscles in them more concerned with lateral fine motor control, than the brute force of holding a string down.
Callouses suck for string noise, touch, and they put too much dead skin between your fingers and the strings.
Proper technique is something that can avoid years of learning to play, wrong.
I've said it hundreds of times.
The guitar is an easy instrument to learn how to play.
,
,
,
,
,.......badly.
Except for the advice of getting a good teacher?
Almost everything I've read in this thread goes against what I've learned as a student of the instrument for 37 years, professional player for 28 years, and a teacher for 22 years.
YMMV | |
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| learning to play guitar
Posted: 1/28/2006 1:48:29 PM | ^^^^
Thanks Late...that's something I've never found on the internet and in books...
Nonsense, self-limiting is self-limiting, ....end of story.
Alright, I can agree that not learning to read sheet music IS limiting yourself...but I still think that focusing more on developing your ear for the music will take you farther than focusing more on reading music....
Does it not take more talent for a group of musicians to come together and throw down a really good jam on the fly or "off the cuff" than a group that has to read the sheet music to sound good?
Obviously this example only applies to certain types of music....a member of a symphony is obviously more concerned about the sheet music for instance..... | |
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| learning to play guitar
Posted: 1/28/2006 6:18:35 PM | You are missing the point, knowing how to read music is for some a stepping stone to understanding it.
Understanding theory is possible without reading, but, reading soes not exclude you from "feel". This is something I have heard all my life, "stay away from theory man, be a feel player.."
It's BS, ...
I dread doing gigs with these guys, they run into walls where they don't understand what's going on, and for some reason, still insist on playing, .... no thanks.
I still think that focusing more on developing your ear for the music will take you farther than focusing more on reading music....
Who says reading takes away from developing an "ear", ...it doesn't work that way in the real world.
People get good, only if they want to put the work into getting good. Looking for short-cuts is counter to this.
I never read, well ... not very often, but as an arranger, I often have to write charts, ....if one of the musicians can't read on a gig or a session, he won't get the work. And it may only be two or three songs out of 3 sets that have to be done "right", or the tune can't be played.
Does it not take more talent for a group of musicians to come together and throw down a really good jam on the fly or "off the cuff" than a group that has to read the sheet music to sound good?
What does, "talent" mean in this context?
I tell you what's nice though, ...is being able to do both well, and this has nothing to do with "talent", it has to do with knowledge, hard work and desire.
Learning is best done in a playing environment, the more you know? The better cats you get to play with, the more you learn. | |
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| learning to play guitar
Posted: 1/30/2006 9:32:27 PM | ^^^^
I was expecting a response like that, there's really no arguing those points, the fact remains that guitar "knowledge" whether it comes from traditional sheet music, theory, or other simplified means of explanation...will get you farther than the guy who just tries to wing it....or "feel" it....
that being said...I gotta "hit the books" again.....
...but I do believe you have to find an appropriate mix of theory and intuitive exploration of the instrument....
Gilmour, Fripp, Belew, Hendrix, Morello...none of them "stuck to the book" and their work is among the most fascinating music....
I suppose, you'll develop that "ear" with any "knowledgable" route...and if you can't develop an ear....you were never meant to pick up an instrument in the first place
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| learning to play guitar
Posted: 1/30/2006 11:21:22 PM | The best way to develope "ear" is to play with mo-fo's, ....without knowlege, all the feel in the world will be for nought if ya can't play changes.
It's all relative though, it depends what the individual "wants" out of it. sooner or later we all hit "limits". The guys you listed, great stylists all, most of 'em wouldn't last more than 8 bars outside of their "styles" if they had to play something like, say, ...."Scrapple From The Apple", ....which is fine, they may not give a flying fork.
However, you have the choice as to whether you hit your limits, sooner, ...or later?
Well,
None of this matters to the guy or gal who wants to strum a few tunes at a party, or play punk, or stick to a single pop gernre, ...but, sooner or later.............?
If you lay the foundation good and solid from the start, you can keep putting off the later.
Indefinitely.
Just 2¢ | |
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| learning to play guitar
Posted: 1/31/2006 8:19:55 AM | @ Murphy...listen to Late this is great advice.I have been playing for over 30 years and if you want to play "campfire songs", learn some chords,but if you want to get GOOD then you need to educate yourself in ALL areas of of instruction. I am self taught also, and any great guitarist/musician will tell you there is always something more to learn.
I think the first thing any aspiring guitarist should learn should be good FOUNDATIONAL skills! How you hold the guitar,proper wrist angle and thumb placement.
If you learn bad habits in the beginning it will be very hard to "unlearn" them later
Take lessons from a GOOD teacher! (if you were learning to paint wouldnt you want Renoir to be your teacher?)
Read and study ....and read and study!
Use the web it is a GREAT place for information !(ie. scales,theory,technique)
Be realistic as what your goals are as an aspiring guitarist...there is one "Mozart" born every hundred or so years,and I have yet to meet one...so gaining mastery is going to take some time...a lifetime!
Learn every style ...all styles, even the ones you dont think you will ever use... in the future you will be glad you did
Murph in these threads you have some really great advice ...use it and it will serve you well!
Best wishes | |
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| learning to play guitar
Posted: 1/31/2006 10:26:26 AM | thanks to everyone for the advice, I really didn't think the thread would go this long.
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| learning to play guitar
Posted: 1/31/2006 2:30:32 PM | Another point concerning "Theory":
Learning how music works also allows you to play any music on guitar, as opposed to only guitar on music that fits pre-memorized patterns.
An added bonus is, if you know theory, you can switch from guitar, to another stringed instrument, like the mandolin (tuned in "fifths"), and be able to play anything on it, ..instantly. | |
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| learning to play guitar
Posted: 1/31/2006 2:35:47 PM | that is cool, mandolin would be fun. I'll wait until I get the guitar down.
I would like to move on to a keyboard/piano next. I'm guessing that once you know guitar chords and scales it wouldn't be too hard to apply that to a piano? | |
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| learning to play guitar
Posted: 1/31/2006 3:51:54 PM | I'm guessing that once you know guitar chords and scales it wouldn't be too hard to apply that to a piano?
Theory's, theory. If you know where the notes are in each respective instrument, you can find chords and scales on either.
That said, a few things to better answer your question.
A) Differences in "practical application" of theory to these instruments:
- A Keyboard has one axis, horizontal, low notes on the left, high notes on the right. Chord voicings and scales are constant as you move thru the register differing only in the key signature they are played. There are 7 white "keys" for natural notes, 5 black ones for sharp/flat notes on this axis, while the compacting of the 12 notes of the octave into a 7 note space is additive, it's still a single axis: as the linear pattern is repeated from low to high..with only one "key" a note.
- A Guitar has six horizontal axes (plural of axis BTW, not a typo), tuned in successive fourths, with the exception of the "b" string which is a major third. This makes for two axes, also it means some notes of identical pitch are distributed throughout the finger-board allowing for quasi symetrical (4ths) intervalic "courses", or a verical axis.
Many differences in how we "see" patterns on each instrument, many differences in how chords and single note playing is achieved.
ie:
Close interval chord voicings are easily played on a piano, they don't require the fingers to "reach".
Close interval voicings on a guitar are quite the opposite, requiring you to "stretch" your fingers to accomplish the same voicing.
Octaves on a piano means "stretching" the fingers of the hand.
Octaves on a guitar, for example an G on the low "E" and the high "E" two octaves apart?
.....one finger.
B) Hand independance/dependance - piano vs guitar.
While both are harmonic intruments, the emphasis on the piano keyboard is for more harmonic independance of the right and left hands, on the guitar (with some exceptions), both hands are required to play a single harmonic or melodic phrase.
Some things like, symmetrical (augmented and diminished) "parental chord cluster triads" are a lot cooler on the guitar....... most piano players will just blink their eyes at the concept, even ones with doctorates in music.
........because you can't "see" them the same on a single axis.
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| learning to play guitar
Posted: 2/3/2006 10:37:56 PM |
The guys you listed, great stylists all, most of 'em wouldn't last more than 8 bars outside of their "styles"
Yup...that's the ultimate test...if you can up and change styles on the fly...your limits are few...
Although I've never heard the album...my dad was talking about a jazz album that Randy Bachman put out...said it was terrible...'cause he's just not a jazz guitarist...
...and I know all too well that you can't learn proper techniques for different styles if you're just gonna try and wing it...it's just not gonna happen....
....now someone direct me to a real good bluesman.... | |
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| Theory.....the leap of faith
Posted: 2/4/2006 6:22:30 AM | I have played guitar for 30 years, and there has always been something I have been searching for....I could figure out alot of what I was hearing, and walk my way through aerosmith, zeppelin, most anything....except Jazz and fusion...I have started to learn theory a little bit lately and it all is making sense, even Jazz and fusion, though I dont particularly care for so much freestyle. The best advice I can offer from my limited existance in the music realm is never never never stop learning if its in you. If the music is in your heart begging to come out, learning theory will unlock your soul with respect to the instrument, my eyes are only now starting to open after a buttload of wasted time beating my head against the wall to try and find out what I was missing. Start with notes, scales, and how they blend to make chords if you mean to do more than campfire...its tedious at first, but the difference in approach will make all the difference in the world unlocking your love of music and releasing you to the joy of hearing it.
An opinion of a musical moron.
Rock on | |
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| Theory.....the leap of faith
Posted: 2/4/2006 8:32:08 AM | Not much to add...except for if you get the chance see if you can get some sheet music or even tabs...on Larry Carlton....
If I could of picked a teacher...it would of been him. | |
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| learning to play guitar
Posted: 2/6/2006 7:06:39 AM |
I am still learning too. It's frustrating :(
one thing i've learned is try to not get frustrated, patience is key.
best of luck to you | |
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| learning to play guitar
Posted: 2/6/2006 7:07:15 PM | Heres a site I like to check out every now and then.. I've always found that strumming around on an old acoustic guitar helps my bass playing.....
http://www.wholenote.com/ | |
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| learning to play guitar
Posted: 2/7/2006 7:08:03 AM | I agree with most of what's being said about theory and it's benefeits. In regards to those just beginning and finding it difficult and/or frustrating, I have some different advice:
Learn something easy, and fun. Don't sweat not being able to play "Cliffs of Dover" or John Scofield's solo on "Fat Lip" when you've just picked up a new instrument. Find a simple tune or groove that seems easy enough to get your hands around and ENJOY it. Sure, it won't do a whole bunch for your theory, or round out your technique (although that's arguable.. just not in scope of this post). The idea is to start having fun doing it as soon as possible. There is no shortcut to "getting good", but if you are having fun, you will stick to it, and the learning curve will start levelling out before you know it. | |
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| learning to play guitar
Posted: 2/7/2006 8:41:35 AM | I've been playing for over 40 years and have four guitars. One acoustic and three electrics.
During an interview, when asked what advice he'd give to someone wanting to learn how to play guitar, Chet Atkins said that you should save your money a little longer and buy a good quality guitar. If you don't have a good instrument, you won't want to practice as much as you should.
To Paulchino II, There are plenty of good bluesmen out there. One of my favorites is Mick Taylor. He started young with John Mayall's Bluesbreakers, and then graduated to the Rolling Stones. If you can get hold of some bootleg Stones concerts from the early seventies, you can hear him shine! | |
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| learning to play guitar
Posted: 2/7/2006 11:51:03 AM | The very first day I got moi my first guitar,I put on a record and just started playing,would not stop and it sounded horrible,then I learned how to tune it..put on a record and strated playing, would not stop and it sounded horrible :)...then I bought a guitar for the practicing musician magazine and learned how to play a couple of songs in it and actually play along with the song on the record after a little while doing that,I could begin to catch on to other records that I had and start picking out riffs and progressions,awe the power chord...then I bought a Led Zepplin tab book and learned alot of the catchy riffs and songs,I was a big Ozzy freak and bought an Ozzy songbook and I sat down and learned the song Diary of a Madman and as I was learning this, I saw that this song was very well put together and realized that I wanted to learn music so when I had a chance after highschool I went to a guitar school for 3 years and learned an incredible amount of material...Damn to this day I still would rather play guitar than anything else even when it still sounds horrible.. along while ago I brought my amp and guitar to the hockey arena and started playing in the parking lot,later that day when I was at work I heard these people talking about the god awful noise they heard earlier at the hockey arena.... | |
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| learning to play guitar
Posted: 2/7/2006 7:02:02 PM |
you should save your money a little longer and buy a good quality guitar. If you don't have a good instrument, you won't want to practice as much as you should.
When I picked up my first guitar...people kept telling me the action was too high...and I needed to get it adjusted....
I took it in and the guy seem almost shocked...said something like "oh ya that's terrible, you can't play on this thing"....set me up with a new saddle the same day....
....six months down the road, I picked up a new nut, saddle, and bridge pins...took it in and the guy set it up perfectly....a modest upgrade of about $100 made all the difference in the world...
To Paulchino II, There are plenty of good bluesmen out there.
I ment I need to find a good bluesman I can play with and learn from...got some good Clapton blues records...got tonnes of Hendrix...but I'd be hard pressed to start jammin' with those guys
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| learning to play guitar
Posted: 2/7/2006 7:36:26 PM |
I need to find a good bluesman I can play with and learn from...
Robben Ford, or the late Clarence "Gatemouth" Brown, .......blues, w/ theory behind 'em. | |
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