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Bk2
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Joined: 4/15/2006
Msg: 101 | |
| learning to play guitar
Posted: 4/16/2006 3:03:05 PM | Hi,
I understand you compose your own material....now my question to you is.....what is the cheapest way to put everything on paper, so that one can remember what they created a year later...it might be a silly question -but in my younger years I had a skidder accident that sort of put the damper on my memory....
I have not played my ol martin for years....because of this accident and white finger from chainsaw. Great news is my church found out I played guitar, so I pulled out the ol martin dusted it off....and played a few songs...then they wanted more....then I was playing meditations....adding a little classical touch to things....and they love me... I think I suck but everyone is enjoying so much that it is something that I must share with others....
So with my memory problems...I kind of need some alternatives......if you could help it would be very appreciated.....started playing at 11 years old....it is a shame to waste talent.....
Thanks....
Bryan 0:) | |
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Bk2
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Joined: 4/15/2006
Msg: 102 | |
| learning to play guitar
Posted: 4/16/2006 3:25:37 PM | I feel picking out a guitar can be quite complicated for a begginer.
If you know you are going for it.....go for it...and buy the best quality you can afford...and couple it with some guitar lessons as everyone says....have a few experienced people help you out.....research....
There are some great guitar sites out there to learn from.....as recommended above.....get yourself a guitar diary....or use the computer...excel....to record things....your progress...etc...
Someone will probably come up with the perfect way to record all your favorite guitars riffs....progressions....so you will always be able to remember...
Chords I find are difficult for so many people......I believe learning a bit of theory and chord structure....is great.....you can figure out the chords yourself...
Of course practice is key......when you feel you have hit a plateau...and not learning too much....find some friends that can play ........ get together.....
Guitar is a beautiful instruments.....when you are 70 years old.....you will still be able rock.....and your guitar will always be there for you.....
Have fun!~ | |
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| learning to play guitar
Posted: 4/16/2006 3:26:32 PM | | If you can't write in standard notation, tape, or your computer's soundcard are your best friend. | |
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| learning to play guitar
Posted: 4/16/2006 5:40:36 PM | Lots here.
Most important I think is to have the SELF DISIPLINE to be able to sit down (or stand) and practice, rather than just pissing about with what you already know. | |
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| learning to play guitar
Posted: 4/29/2006 3:27:37 PM | My best advice: find songs that you like and learn them by ear. It doesn't matter whether you figure out what the chords actually are, as long as it sounds relatively like the original, i'd go with that. Because doing it by ear also makes you invent things and find other ways to do the same patterns, that may or may not have been done in the actual song. If you can't do it by ear, I would say that you'll only ever amount to being a sterile, "by the books" guitarist, and no one ever got to be a Hendrix, Page or any other equally as innovative guitarist, by following a book or on what someone else did. I've found out that things that sounded right (and cool) that I thought were the correct chords to the songs, but I found out that they were wrong, and you know what? They sound cool to me, so it's my own little unintended slant on it, my own flavour to it.
And if you miss a few notes? Some of my favorite guitar players, like Richards, Gibbons, James Williamson (of the Stooges), Neil Young all are quite sloppy, but have their own style--you can tell those guys' style when they plug in. The worst way is to start imitating a guitar player or technique and never invent your own flavour to it. And mistakes= good. If I was a more perfect guitar player, I never would have been writing songs where I flubbed a chord, but it sounded good, like a happy accident. To me, many guitarists get too wrapped up in playing a bazillion notes, flawlessly. Better to have your own style and flub a few, than to be not making mistakes, and be imitating someone note for note.
If you want to be a truly unique and soulful player, there's no other way to do this than to do it in the way that I just described. I know players that play by the book and know all the chord names, but you know what? They can't improvise or write or do anything original, to save their life. And to me, that says "bar band player" for the rest of their career. I mean, there's nothing wrong with a little knowledge and scales and chord names, like i'd suggest finding out a, b, c, d, e, f, g chords, and all the equivalent minor chords. Also, a few scales might not hurt, maybe you want to know pentatonics and some harmonic scales (I did this in hindsight, when I had a good basic grasp of learning from playing along with my favorite songs, bands, and records). But you know what? Hardly anyone will go, "hey, that's a great blahblahblah phrygian scale", they'll go, "fuck dude, that really sent chills down my spine". NEVER ignore the "chills" factor or if it makes the hair on the back of your neck stand up. Always go with that.
Once you've got a good grasp of learning the styles from the bands that you like, then is the time to start inventing your own songs, twisting some of the progressions and themes, making them your own. Alot of people forget that the best music is just rehashed ideas, albeit in a very original way. Even originality is overrated sometimes, if you like no nonsense rock n' roll, there's only so far you can get away from Chuck Berry or something like that..... | |
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| learning to play guitar
Posted: 4/30/2006 2:57:04 PM | | For those who might be discouraged, trying to play the guitar, finding cords ,bending fingers wrist- even the whole upper body- Many I suppose do not realize how stressful playing a guitar can for some , even though they may have the disire . there is a new guitar created by a brilliant crafstman- called the Burrell- This guitar is a revoulotionary design like no other I've seen at least. It accomodates the body- rather than the player having to accomodate it. I find this guitar most interesting- The whole issue as to how stressful this can be to some. is explianed in detail if I recall on this website burrell.com or burrellguitars.com ? Many guitarist who have played for many years find playing this guitar quite an unusual relaxing experiance. Many people have tried to play a guitar, have put it down -never to pick up one again. But this guitar invites everyone to play and relax. One of the few drawbacks about this instrument- will be the cost- its hand made of course and expensive for the average beginners budget........ and while the guitar does have a great tone- but will not play as ''loud'' as most other acoustics, A small sacrifice but only for some........... | |
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| learning to play guitar
Posted: 4/30/2006 5:06:06 PM | | what you really want to do is develope your ear. Throw away all those guitar books ,put on a cd and get ready to hit rewind a million times while figuring out the song | |
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| learning to play guitar
Posted: 5/1/2006 3:07:10 AM | asked and answered. The single greatest tragedy to occur in recent history is the dissapearance of the apprenticeship method of learning. Wisdom that can be found in a word spoken in time can never find its proper place on a page in a book. Being a crafstman I understand apprenticeships, and the disciplines of conflicting schools. I would recommend this method for anyone who wants to become the best musician they can become....because they want to. If you want to make money or get women with a musical instrument, scroll up. "The time has finally come for me to pack my bags and walk away....."
With all due respect, and sincere appreciation for ALL the help I have received from POF. | |
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| learning to play guitar
Posted: 5/14/2006 1:01:01 AM | | hey guys , gals im learning too. to play the guitar i mean. so im still a huge fan of alice in chains. think i always will lol. anyhow any suggestions for learning that kind of stuff? i mean the same kind that jerry cantral uses. ( he was the lead guitar) please help. i wanna rock out hardcore lol !!! | |
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| learning to play guitar
Posted: 5/14/2006 1:07:04 AM | you rock and im gonna check out what ever i can about guitar learning. | |
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| learning to play guitar
Posted: 5/14/2006 11:33:34 AM | The best way to learn how to do anything is to start with a desire.. take lessons-- jam with other musicians -- lots of practice and let your passion flow.. in time you and your music will be one and the same..
enjoy --life to the fullest... | |
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| learning to play guitar
Posted: 5/22/2006 5:38:56 PM | Dude. Are you doing the B as a bar chord or using all of your fingers. Using the bar chord is much easier and it strengthens up your fretting hand too I have found. And that's B at the 2nd position rather than at the 7th position. You only need two fingers for that,lay them flat. ring finger across DGB and the index covering the A string and the high E.
Hope that helps
Cam | |
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| Back in Black
Posted: 6/4/2006 6:12:17 PM | So there are a few approaches to learning the notes on the fretboard...one is to learn the whole notes first and then infill the sharps and flats as need arises, the other is to learn the whole fretboard at once.
Im having difficulty finding time to get the work of it done with everything else going on, homework from other studies and whatnot...Im wondering if there is a huge problem that will develop later on if I dont learn the sharps and flats now, and just concentrate on the whole notes.
Time isnt the issue, its not like I want to play at some concert or anything...though I probably could. I want to compose a few songs for some specific events, and though I can pull some pretty magical sounding stuff out of thin air, I want to be deliberate in the actual composition of the players when the pieces are played, so I need to learn sheet music (I already know) and what notes are where on different instruments, bass and guitar specifically since I know where they are on keyboards already.
Any ideas??
Thanks | |
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| Back in Black
Posted: 6/4/2006 7:01:53 PM |
Im having difficulty finding time to get the work of it done with everything else going on, homework from other studies and whatnot...Im wondering if there is a huge problem that will develop later on if I dont learn the sharps and flats now, and just concentrate on the whole notes.
Learning all twelve isn't much harder than learning just seven. The sharps/flats are between five of the seven, (not: B-C, and, E-F), ...done. The process of exclusion whittles this down to just remembering that these two don't have sharps/flats.
The strings of the guitar (in standard tuning), are EADGBE, the bass, EADG (BEADG 5 st.).
Take it from there, the bass fret board is a two axes grid, with the values increasing by increments of a semi-tone interval on the linear axis, and a perfect fourth (5 x semi-tones) on the lateral axis. This means that the patterns of where octaves and unisons occure is fixed. On a guitar, the only glitch to this is the lateral increment between the G and B strings, which is a major third interval (4 X semi-tones), so the pattern staggers by one semi-tone "less" on the B string and switches back to perfect fourth for B to E strings.
Im having difficulty finding time
15 minutes?
Do this note naming exercise (below) for 15 minutes a day, and you should know the fretboard in a matter of weeks.
http://homepage.mac.com/ewald/Theory/rps1.html
Since you know how to notate music via the keyboard, there's no need to learn this, just be aware that "chordaphone" instruments differ from keyboard ones in that they have two axes, instead of one axis.
If you want to be a truly unique and soulful player, there's no other way to do this than to do it in the way that I just described. I know players that play by the book and know all the chord names, but you know what? They can't improvise or write or do anything original, to save their life.
Knowlege causes what?
Bullshit.
post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy, yet again.....
Knowing what you're doing doesn't preclude feel, or detract from the ability to express yourself artistically.
Everytime I hear this mantra, it's most often from those too lazy to learn music, and are limited to what they can mimic.
There's nothing at all wrong with being a stylist, but to preach that you can only be one by self-limiting what happens BETWEEN the ears is just a load of BS.
True, you don't need books, schools, or teachers to learn music, though they help to speed up the process. Understanding how music works is painfully simple, as one understanding leads to another, which leads to another, and so on. If you can count to 7, and learn the alphabet from A to G? It's just a matter of clue-ing into a few simple rules, and it's all there....... | |
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| Back in Black
Posted: 6/5/2006 4:01:56 PM | True, you don't need books, schools, or teachers to learn music, though they help to speed up the process. Understanding how music works is painfully simple, as one understanding leads to another, which leads to another, and so on. If you can count to 7, and learn the alphabet from A to G? It's just a matter of clue-ing into a few simple rules, and it's all there.......
True...I am entirely self-taught,in fact i learn better that way since most of my experience with someone teaching me something personally has been unfortunately mired in their bullshit and ended up being counter productive.As a beginner unfortunately it's hard to distinguish someone experienced from someone not when you have none yourself.
Also true you definitely need music theory if you plan on making your own music.
I only wish i had learned it earlier than i did,but i didn't get into it until a couple years after i started playing.
It does open up so many doors and allowed me to take what i learned from building chords and scales and transfer it to the keyboard or other instruments.
I think theory is the easy part,it's trying to create memorable,cool,creative phrases and play in time and build good rythm that's hard,and it's a never ending learning process, and if you really love playing guitar then you will be willing to make sacrifices.If it's what you really love.
Not knowing theory is a little like walking on a dark,narrow,meandering path through the woods without a flashlight.You can eventually make your way to the other side without the flashlight,albeit much stumbling,bruises and walking into trees.Wouldn't it be better though to have the flashlight so you can see each step in front of you?.That's what theory does for you,it gives you the ability to see the next possible step you can take. | |
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| Back in Black
Posted: 6/5/2006 5:13:02 PM | Not knowing theory is a little like walking on a dark,narrow,meandering path through the woods without a flashlight.You can eventually make your way to the other side without the flashlight,albeit much stumbling,bruises and walking into trees.Wouldn't it be better though to have the flashlight so you can see each step in front of you?.That's what theory does for you,it gives you the ability to see the next possible step you can take.
Absolutely, once knowlege evolves into knowing, you can play without any artiface or mimicry, ...just because you KNOW, where you are in relationship to the music. Knowlege of theory doesn't mean you must play "by the rules", it just makes understanding structure, ...second nature. By the same token, memorizing scale and chord "patterns" is not learning theory, it's just as much mimicry as is stitching together, licks lifted from favorite songs.....
Music is both an art and a science, these are the two facets that make up the well rounded player. Limiting your resources by ignoring the importance of either aspect is counter productive to learning the craft, ...a life-long commitment. | |
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| learning to play guitar
Posted: 6/5/2006 8:35:15 PM | Stick with it, PRACTICE, practice, practice, and did i forget to say practice????
and oh YEAH, STICK WITH IT,
don't take no heat, develop your OWN sound, and don't EVER EVER EVER be self conscious or embarrassed, and OH YEAH,,,
stick with it and PRACTICE!!!
be careful with music theory, it can take away some of the more raw, natural sounds you start with, that, are actually kinda cool...
don't forget to practice. | |
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| learning to play guitar
Posted: 6/5/2006 10:10:49 PM |
be careful with music theory, it can take away some of the more raw, natural sounds you start with, that, are actually kinda cool...
How?
Please, just one example of a "natural sound" that is negated by theory?
Just one...... | |
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| 15 mintues
Posted: 6/6/2006 6:01:43 PM | ^^^LOL yet another prime example of why it is I dont do much online. 15 minutes isnt hard to do, but in a serious methodical way....not just yet for me. There's too much else Im occupied with to carve out a specific place in the schedule for it, since I already KNOW its not gonna just be 15 minutes when I do get to it. I AM working through the lesson, but its going slower than I thought...priorities being what they are.
Knowing where the notes are isnt important for me in playing, I know where the sounds are, but it will eventually become important for me in writing, and that is a long term goal (not to mention that I want to actually understand what I am doing when I play...I have an idea, but without the understanding of the different axis' its just hunches)
Thanks for posting the link again. I'll print it this time so I can get to it again if the computer goes down or whatever.
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| 15 mintues
Posted: 6/6/2006 7:26:57 PM |
Knowing where the notes are isnt important for me in playing, I know where the sounds are
That's an interesting statement...I was gonna add that some people just don't have the natural ability to actually understand music...period...some people play out of key and have no idea that they're playing out of key...they can't HEAR that it sounds bad...
I would agree with the above statment in the sense that MEMORIZING, or visualising where the notes are on the fretboard is useless....I've put a twist on Lates exercise that helps quite a bit...I basically use the lateral axis...I strike a note on the Low E string and find the same notes on the higher strings....check my fretboard diagram and I'm usually spot on.....
....but I'm finding music I've written long before I paid any attention to staying in key...was ALREADY in key....I know what sounds good together..... | |
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| 15 mintues
Posted: 6/6/2006 7:59:07 PM | Some great posts on this thread!
Guitar is a long road to travel.
Like any instrument your controlling a multitude of sounds, like holding water between your hands and only releasing what is in tune with your surroundings.
1. choose your key( most choose a key that fits thier voice)
2. learn the 1st 4th and 5th major chords in that key.
i.e.
The key of E ie E f g A B c d e
The key of G ie G a b C D e f g
Notice the pattern above with 5 fingers you can transpose a song from one key to another in seconds.
3. learn the 3 chords in the key you choose
4 learn the root note positions on the low E string ( or the bar chord positions much the same thing they start at the root note.
5. As you play your 3 chords ( most great songs are only 3 chords) realize the root note of the same name is located on the low E string and going to that position you can scale your leads in that key.
6.learn all the above your 3 chords your lead positions on the low E string and play!
Has anyone on here experimented with working the relative harmonic scale together with the major scale for doing hammmer ons?? | |
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| 15 mintues
Posted: 6/6/2006 8:46:48 PM | 2. learn the 1st 4th and 5th major chords in that key.
It's just as easy to learn all seven
Root - 1 - I - Major
Second - 2 - II - Minor
Third - 3 - III - Minor
Fourth - 4 - IV - Major
Fifth - 5 - V - Major
Sixth - 6 - VI - Minor
Seventh - 7 - VII - Minor 7 b5, or "half diminished"
Or,
Tone - Major
Tone - Minor
Semi-tone - Minor
Tone - Major
Tone - Major
Tone - Minor
Semi-tone - Minor 7 b5, or "half diminished"
How to play ANY chord:
Major means:
At least 1, 3, 5,
Dominant means:
At least 1, 3, 7b
Minor means:
At least 1, 3b, 7b
The normal numbers 1234567 = scale degrees, or the numbers you see in chords.
Only two degrees vary amonst the Minor, Major, Dominant 7, families
Major - Major third, Major seventh
Dominant 7 - Major third, Dominant seventh (7 down a sem-tone/half step)
Minor - Minor third ( 3 down a sem-tone/half step), Dominant seventh (7 down a sem-tone/half step)
Only the 3rd and 7th change, all the others never move (unless indicated by # or b).
If there is a 7 or Dom7 present in the chord?
2 becomes 9
4 becomes 11
6 becomes 13
These never move (unless indicated by # or b).
"Sus 2" means:
1, 2, 5
"Sus 4" means:
1, 4, 5
Diminished means:
1, 3b, 5b
Diminished 7 means:
1, 3b, 5b, 7bb
Augmented means:
1, 3, 5#
Diadic chords (two notes)
"Power Chord"
1,5, 1 (welcome to metal)
Flat 5
1 5b, 1 (welcome to my world)
1 to 5b interval also known as a "tritone", it's the halfway point in an octave.
Find where these numbers go, here:
(scroll down)
http://homepage.mac.com/ewald/Theory/rps1.html
The root, or one, or 1, "names" the chord by note, re: A. A#, B, C, C#, etc.
That's pretty much it, the order you put the notes in doesn't matter. If you know the notes on the guitar (hint: do the note naming exercise), you can play any chord, anywhere, anytime......
Only the third and seventh ever change, the other five notes (plus three - 9, 11, 13), NEVER move (unless it says so (b, #)
Bingo bongo bango | |
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| 15 mintues
Posted: 6/6/2006 10:25:59 PM | LATE,
You're a smarty pants...
music is math!! and very simple math
practice makes perfect. There is such a thing as muscle memory. Practicing all the drills and scales until they come out automatically, make jamming with other musicians, no matter what the musical genre, much easier, because there are no surprises.
it's like learning the times tables...if you know them, you don't need a calculator (i.e. tabs or charts). You won't always have access to tabs or charts but you will always have your fingers and your ears.
If you want some challenges to your playing, jam with people who play completely different genres from you. Try recording yourself, you will hear stuff after the fact, that you weren't aware of while you were playing, like pick slapping from bad hand positioning or lazy fingers in the bar chords. | |
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| 15 mintues
Posted: 6/7/2006 7:03:10 AM |
music is math!! and very simple math
I always hear people say this, but I express it differently.
Music has its own kind of math/language, and yes, it's very very simple.
it's like learning the times tables...if you know them, you don't need a calculator (i.e. tabs or charts). You won't always have access to tabs or charts but you will always have your fingers and your ears.
Yup, it's like when a person asks, "How do I play a "----------------" chord?". The answers in the name. A chord name IS the instructions. Em11?
E - root
m - means at least a root/ minor third/ fifth (the 11 makes the fifth optional)
11 - means theres a seventh (dominant because it's minor), ninth (2) optional, and an eleventh (4).
Chord names ARE the formulas, very simple set of rules.
Em11, easiest chord on the guitar - E,A,D,G,B,E, or, 1, 11, 7b, 3b, 5, 1
In the very least, learn the notes on the fretboard, ...think about it for a sec.
Learn the major scale by degrees, it's the key to everything.
It's sooooo.... simple, NOT learning it? Is kinda' stupid. I think some avoid theory because they think it's too much work, and are goaded into believing the lazy man's mantras of "it will take away your feel", or "learn by ear", ......??? Sorry, ear and BRAIN make more sense. Learning basic theory IS as easy as doing the alphabet to G, counting to 7, and remembering 3 rules for most chords, (and melody), and new neat little rules just keep showing up. no need for block diagrams or TAB, or even musical notation (these things teach you nothing but rote and mimicry).
"But I like making up my own chords"....... ???
You can't, they're all accounted for. | |
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| 15 mintues
Posted: 6/7/2006 11:18:50 AM | Yes pretty much everything late included in his last two posts is everything you need to know to have a complete understanding of the fundamentals of music.
There are advanced concepts of course such as;Quartal harmony(Chords built on 4ths),Tone clusters(Chords built on 2nds)and many intervallic variations for scales including Arnold Schoenberg's twelve tone method etc.These other concepts are optional,but you must know the basics.
[Typo fixed for clarity/late™]
m - means at least a root/ minor third/ fifth (the 11 makes the fifth optional)
Yes and for those wondering why the 5th may be optional,it's because its the dominant tone of the scale(the most important next to the root)and it's harmonic implication is so strong that your ear can almost fill that sound in with its omission because it automatically "expects" to hear it.The reason why "power chords" are so often used in rock and metal because it has such a harmonic agreeable sense of unity that pretty much anything can harmonize with it,without detracting from the sound.
It is for this reason out of necessity on a six string guitar that it is frequently omitted in any 13th chord because there are only six strings and if you have a basic C major13th chord(C,E,G,B,D,F,A),you can see there are seven notes,one too many to be played fully on a six string guitar.So because the 5th is such a strongly implied note in harmony makes it a perfect choice to be the one omitted,thus we can still play our 13th chord.
"But I like making up my own chords"....... ???
You can't, they're all accounted for.
It is exactly for this reason that any statements made about taking away from the "Natural sound" of notes makes no sense.
Because unless your from Seti Alpha V,your playing the exact same notes,chords etc. as the rest of us.If you haphazardly place your hand on E major chord unknowingly and i do the same but i know it's a E major chord instead,I have detracted from the sound how?
I think most people are erroneously thinking about scale patterns and such pitfalls that can be overused when they here theory...but that isn't so.
When you think of a scale in theory like say E major scale(E,F#,G#,A,B,C#,D#,E),you visualize where those notes ar all over the guitar neck,not just in one scale position.
It is the single scale "box" pattern that can detract from your playing by its overuse and that position is not theory perse,but that position is based off of the overall scale notes found everywhere on the neck.There is a big difference. | |
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