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| learning to play guitar
Posted: 1/26/2007 4:19:07 PM | QUESTION; The first few times you ever picked up a guitar, did you feel like you were actually getting somewhere... even if it was minimal ? Or, was it utter frustration... feeling close to impossible ? Everyone I know who is decent on guitar, could make some progress right away. It's been a long time, but I recall being able to play to some degree, right off the bat. I've seen others that looked like they were trying to pull their teeth out with their fingers. I'm not sure if just ANYONE can learn.... maybe so. I do remember that I started out playing with my thumb as a 'pick'. It took me quite some time to get used to using an actual pick.... and just maybe seven years ago, after more than twenty years of playing, I found a new way to hold the pick and I feel like I've gotten alot more fluid in my playing. The physical mechanics of playing is just half of it . You can learn to just play songs; "Stairway To Heaven"....whatever..... I never really did that. I started writing songs right off the bat too.
Music is a concept, a theory of sound. Anyway..... good luck. Getting a teacher is probably the best advice..... I SORT OF wish I would have. I did with the drums and it helped immensely, even though I could play those to some degree also, even before the teacher.
If you want to be somewhat original and creative with your playing, I think I would say to see how far you can get on your own. I think being taught can make you into a "generic player". I suppose it all depends on your individual mental / psychological make-up. Back to the first question I asked..... I think that will have a great effect on what kind of player and how good you will be. | |
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| learning to play guitar
Posted: 1/26/2007 5:09:20 PM | Well, we're all "taught" to some degree, whether or not we had a music teacher who taught us how to play. "Self-taught" is actually an oxymoron because we all learn from someone or something. Even if you never had lessons with a real-life teacher, you probably listened to the radio or cassettes/CDs/albums of your favorite artists: BB King, AC/DC, Black Sabbath, whoever. And along the way you learned how to tune your guitar to what you were trying to play. If someone were TRULY self-taught, they'd have a weird tuning and style, and it probably wouldn't be rock. Keith Richards said he would listen to Chuck Berry records over and over until he got that style down. Same with Eddie Van Halen emulating Eric Clapton's style. And same with Jimi Hendrix and Eric Clapton emulating classic blues players.
Now it is possible to play music without knowing the theory behind it. A child in an English-speaking country learns how to speak English correctly without knowing (or even caring about) what nouns, verbs, prepositions, etc., are. But if that child wants to learn another language, it helps to know something about that grammar stuff. Likewise, it helps if a guitar player knows theory. He then can create his own stuff and perhaps his own "style", or way of expressing himself on the instrument. | |
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| learning to play guitar
Posted: 1/26/2007 6:49:03 PM | Without theory, you are limited. You cannot play with "strangers", nor work as a studio professional (like Late). You are, effectively, illiterate.
If you are a singer/songwriter, and play alone, that's less relevant. That technical side is really valuable when playing with others.
That said, all music (the best, anyway) is an expression of emotion. The creative element is unlocked with such emotions, and most of the popular music of our time has not been created by musical "technicians".
Those technical people HAVE been behind the scenes, in supporting roles, (George Martin, countless others) in assisting in the creative process. Without them, that music would have been lessened greatly.
The validity of any musician, in my humble opinion, is his ability to transmit emotion in his music. Should a musician be a great technical genius, and yet not be able to harness this most critical aspect of musicianship, the final result may be brilliant ....but not reach anyone outside a limited audience. It's art, without soul.
On the other hand, an "illiterate" musician may create a timeless magic. Just look at how many musicians have touched the world, because of their deep need to reach out and communicate the pain they were suffering through.
Often, the first works of these people are masterpieces of their time. Then, as they get richer and more "powerful" - their music is lessened. It's my belief that their "muse" , that pain and suffering, leaves them at that point.
Because of their success, they become static. They produce what will sell, not what comes from their heart.
When they were unknowns, nothing was expected from them. That burning fire inside was free to explode in any direction they saw fit. They had nothing to lose, and they were not doing it for money or fame.
Once captured by the system, that is no longer possible. There are business deals, schedules, and the entire life of an artist is no longer one of total freedom to create.
It's very much the same model as in any other art form. Writers and painters face very much the same challenges. Some of the best, especially in painting, never achieved any commercial success of great note until long after death. That, I believe, is because they were never exposed to the "corrupting" influence of commercial involvement.
They simply did what they did because they HAD to, as an expression of who they were and what they were feeling at the time. With only that motivation in place, their effort was "pure". | |
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| learning to play guitar
Posted: 1/26/2007 8:36:56 PM | Yeah.... I take back what I said about being self-taught. I learned by watching people play... not so much by listening though. I believe I just had a good deal of intuition once I would learn fingering for chords.... intuition from 'natural' rhythm, or from playing drums first. I'm sure I have a somewhat unorthodox style due to the way I learned, especially when it comes to playing improvisationally ; "lead solo's", etc. . I never learned scales... I just play notes by ear.... again; intuitively, creatively. Some people who learned in a more orthodox manner will say I'm not even playing within a particular type of scale, but just as I could be writing with slang words, improper sentence structure and unorthodox punctuation.... you still get the message. The 'message' can be translated even more loosely with music, especially in a blues and/or jazz based format.... e.g., Hendrix, J. Beck, etc. , not to mention jazz players who go "off the charts", without even bending notes, using feedback, distortion, or effects. It becomes very subjective / relative to taste. You can take a raucous Green Day song, slow down the beat and play it clean... and you've got a quaint little Irish folk song. I can play one of my avant-garde, semi-atonal solos on my Strat with overdrive and a myriad of effects and twist up alot of people's ears... then play the same basic thing on my classical guitar and sound sweet as pie. Well, sweet and sour anyway! Actually I sometimes go out of my way to get into the avant-garde realm and still come out sounding more melodic than I want to.
I just say to a beginner; learn however you can.... best with a teacher at some point, but hopefully your individual personality will come through and not be dictated by what a particular teacher MIGHT try to mold you into. Like Frank Zappa said; "Talking about music is like dancing about architecture".  | |
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| learning to play guitar
Posted: 1/31/2007 10:00:16 AM | Okay, hope I'm in the right place this time.
Here's what I originally posted in the other guitar thread, revised because my question wasn't really about tab. Thanks to Late for the link - I'll read it over first chance I get.
Normally, the name of the chord is placed above the musical staff, and the tab numbers in the tablature below the staff. For example, if it's an A-minor chord, it'll say "Am", then have the notes for A-minor, then the tab numbers for A-minor. It all matches up.
The example I was looking at, which was for arpeggio chords, listed an open C in the notation above the musical staff, but the notes themselves didn't match that of an open C. Is there a reason for that I'm just not seeing, and am I understanding arpeggios correctly in assuming they're the notes of a chord played one by one? | |
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| learning to play guitar
Posted: 1/31/2007 11:56:23 PM | Another question... mostly for Late, but any of the other teachers can chime in as well.
At the mo, I'm mostly working on learning power chords (G5, A5, etc.)
What is the proper way to fret these things, or does it really matter? I've read that they can use either the first/third/fourth fingers or the first with a barre. I find the barre easier, but for some reason I think I shouldn't be doing that.
Secondly... is it possible (or, I guess the better way to put it, desirable) to use alternate strumming (up-down as opposed to just down) on power chords that have their root on the fifth string? Since they're situated between two strings that shouldn't be played, I'm finding it very difficult to up-strum on them without my pick getting tangled up or skipping over the top two strings. I'm wondering if it's something I shouldn't be wasting my time on. On a related note, I seem to keep skipping the third string on my downstrokes. Is there anything I can consciously do about that?
Thirdly... I'm trying to get the hang of palm muting. It always seems like I'm doing it either too much or too little, especially when it comes to the fifth-string chords I mentioned above. Any hints, or is it just a matter of practice?
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| learning to play guitar
Posted: 2/1/2007 12:08:39 AM | At the mo, I'm mostly working on learning power chords (G5, A5, etc.)
Nothing to learn here - this is called a "diadic" it's not really a chord. Follow the instructions on the page - you know them all in 2 seconds.
http://homepage.mac.com/ewald/Theory/rps1.html
Fingering?
Easy - 2 fret span - index/ring finger.
Secondly... is it possible (or, I guess the better way to put it, desirable) to use alternate strumming (up-down as opposed to just down) on power chords that have their root on the fifth string? Since they're situated between two strings that shouldn't be played, I'm finding it very difficult to up-strum on them without my pick getting tangled up or skipping over the top two strings. I'm wondering if it's something I shouldn't be wasting my time on. On a related note, I seem to keep skipping the third string on my downstrokes. Is there anything I can consciously do about that?
Lose the pick, start with your fingers, your right hand will adjust to where the strings "are" much faster - observe proper posture in wrist and arm, ...and your hand will always know where each string is whether you use a pick or not.
Thirdly... I'm trying to get the hang of palm muting. It always seems like I'm doing it either too much or too little, especially when it comes to the fifth-string chords I mentioned above. Any hints, or is it just a matter of practice
See above, let your body learn where things "are" via tactile sense before trying to force something that comes naturally if you let it. | |
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| learning to play guitar
Posted: 2/1/2007 12:31:12 AM |
Nothing to learn here - this is called a "diadic" it's not really a chord. Follow the instructions on the page - you know them all in 2 seconds.
I guess "learning" was a bad choice of words. What I meant was, I'm practicing being able to play them and shift up and down the neck without losing my fingering.
Easy - 2 fret span - index/ring finger.
Oh, good. I found that much easier than using three fingers.  | |
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| learning to play guitar
Posted: 2/1/2007 12:52:48 AM | I guess "learning" was a bad choice of words. What I meant was, I'm practicing being able to play them and shift up and down the neck without losing my fingering.
No, I really think you're missing the point - have you even read the page yet?
All your questions are answered there.
There is no "skipping over the boring stuff to learn the tricks".
There are no tricks, "missing the point" just means a lot of unlearning bad habits and starting over in the future.
Go through that one page until you understand it.
Can you count to 7?
Do the alphabet to "G"?
Well, if you can do those two things, you should be able to know ANY chord after you "understand" that one, single page.
If you just want to learn 5 or 6 led zep/green day/bon jovi/pus dripping wound/nickleback tunes to bash out at drunken parties, then buy the songbook with the little chord pictures .... no understanding required.
Other than that - all you need to have a firm foundation is on that single page.
It may not become clear in one night, but it is very simple, once you have a grasp you'll realize that it's kindergarten stuff. | |
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| learning to play guitar
Posted: 2/1/2007 2:15:49 AM | No, I really think you're missing the point - have you even read the page yet?
Actually Late, with all due respect, you're the one who's not understanding what I'm saying. I have read the page and I understand the theory. I understood the theory when I read it in a couple of other books a few weeks ago. I am not just sitting here and memorizing chord diagrams. (I *hate* memorizing things.) I am trying to do this the right way.
But understanding the theory is only half the battle - you yourself said a few pages back that a student needs to *practice*. Well, that's what I'm doing now. I'm practicing.
Take that G5 diadic I mentioned earlier. It's a movable chord, right? (or whatever it is, if it's not a chord.) I can shift it up the neck and play it somewhere else, right?
Well in theory, yea. In practice, no I can't. When I move that pattern up the neck my fingers slip and wind up between the strings more often than not.
So, that's what I'm practicing - I'm moving that diadic pattern up and down the neck over and over again, until my fingers can come down where I want them to. If that's not the sort of thing I'm supposed to be practicing, then what *is*? | |
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| learning to play guitar
Posted: 2/1/2007 2:33:04 AM | Take that G5 diadic I mentioned earlier. It's a movable chord, right? (or whatever it is, if it's not a chord.) I can shift it up the neck and play it somewhere else, right?
Well in theory, yea. In practice, no I can't. When I move that pattern up the neck my fingers slip and wind up between the strings more often than not.
It's easy, proper posture means using your thumb as the fulcrum, the muscles of the fingers retain lateral position, don't use the fingers to press down, use the thumb, of course if you don't have proper technique, this won't happen. Change position = release (thumb), ...fingers never leave the strings.
What you are decribing sounds like the ass-backwards approach - I don't reccomend it.
Do you know what "5" means yet?
So, that's what I'm practicing - I'm moving that diadic pattern up and down the neck over and over again, until my fingers can come down where I want them to.
What are you practicing something of no practical value, ...all this can do is make really simple concepts just as clumsy.
This is akin to using a tricycle to learn how to steer a Lexus down a city street.
If that's not the sort of thing I'm supposed to be practicing, then what *is*?
Read the page, learn it - finger position via frets is part of it.
Things thought complex are actually simple, it doesn't mean that it happens over night. That lesson usually takes beginners between two weeks, and 3 months to master, ...it's still "dead simple".
You are trying to do something that comes easy to the person who can drive a lexus after a few weeks of learning, a trike is easy, even infantile after learning how a steering wheel works. If you try to learn the Lexus by trying to ride a trike at 40 mph, ....you will just wipe out/learn nothing. | |
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| learning to play guitar
Posted: 2/1/2007 10:26:40 AM |
Change position = release (thumb), ...fingers never leave the strings.
They don't? Hmm... Makes sense. How do you keep your fingers from making unwanted noise scraping against the strings as they move?
Do you know what "5" means yet?
The chord/diadic contains the root and fifth degree of the chord. | |
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| learning to play guitar
Posted: 2/1/2007 11:12:27 AM |
They don't? Hmm... Makes sense. How do you keep your fingers from making unwanted noise scraping against the strings as they move?
That's why you have two hands, I already covered that in your "muting" question.
Again, this exercise won't yield any results that lead to making it easier to play, I suggest you put more emphasis on understanding before you train your hand for bad habits. | |
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| learning to play guitar
Posted: 2/1/2007 11:27:43 AM |
That's why you have two hands, I already covered that in your "muting" question.
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh. The lightbulb goes on.
Thanks Late, I'll give this a whirl tonight when I get home. | |
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| learning to play guitar
Posted: 2/1/2007 9:54:43 PM | Update:
Well, it worked - but I'll bet you knew that.  Ditching the pick and using my fingers let me play the rhythm figure I was practicing much more smoothly.
Also... using my fingers, I noticed, gives me a much softer, more subdued sound overall, and really helps with strumming. I'd been wondering why the high notes on my strummed chords were twanging so much.
Thanks! | |
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| learning to play guitar
Posted: 2/12/2007 11:18:50 AM | You know u can use a pick and still use your other three fingers for finger work I use this tech on some things ( mostly soloing ) | |
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| learning to play guitar
Posted: 2/13/2007 6:52:26 AM | | At first I didn't know what I was doing so I bought a beginners guide to show me the basics. From there I just learned by ear and from guitar magazines. | |
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| learning to play guitar
Posted: 2/14/2007 7:33:03 PM | Yea, that's what I've been doing myself lately, musicmaker - getting the hang of strumming with my fingers and switching to the pick for riffs and solo work. Amazing how tricky something like strumming really is.  | |
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| learning to play guitar
Posted: 2/15/2007 10:55:33 PM | Something I have been having trouble getting across to my students is the necessity of slowing down...
Man are they in a freakin' hurry. They can barely drop into a groove at one beat a second and they all want to race to the end. Attention dumba** disorder I believe Red Foreman might coin it.
Strumming is a perfect example. And listening. Try practicing as slow as is humanly possible and staying on beat. And the metronome is indeed your friend. I am learning this as I take singing lessons...as you can be "stylistic" all you like later but if you can't first obey the rules, you are just being a skillless dilletante.
As they still say and this especially applies to guitar or any instrument, "Speed Kills" and the subtlety that is lost to the ear and the fingers by speeding up what you are playing too soon is what really turns your playing into sloppy dreck. Learn it now and don't take decades to relearn this lesson...like...ahem...I have been LOL.
Lots of software out there including free ones like Bestpractice allow you to slow down songs at pitch but winAMP and other sound players now have built in plugins to do this...in the old days it was flick the reel-to-reel to half speed or the LP to 16 from 33 1/3rd to drop the octave and go to half speed. I transcribed the first two Black Sabbath albums this way for a guitar lesson for myself once and it was indeed invaluable, listening to the panned all left then right dual solos...best lesson I ever had to date in fact.
Speed will come but the slower and tastier you go, the better the end product.
Same with strumming...and of course when strumming upstrums will naturally sound treble strings first, so you will have a different sound...depending on how many strings you strum.
More importantly you should be selective about what strings you strum to create different effects. Most of the time, for a casual rhythm guitar strum, a downstrum will go through all the strings (big generalization here) and an upstrum need only catch the top two or three treble strings on the return...in fact trying to come all the way back through all the strings will likely not sound right to your ear and slow down your strum.
But you can completely alter the effects and feel of a strum to create different backups by which strings you hit, palm muting, other effects like a rasgueado, hammer-ons and pull offs... treatises have been written
Slow it down...and listen carefully...if necessary get an experienced ear to tell you what is happening and show you. | |
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| learning to play guitar
Posted: 2/16/2007 1:56:32 AM | There's a lot of wisdom in what you say, fiddler. Perfectionist that I am, I keep ignoring the fact that you really don't need to hit all the strings on an upstrum. I keep trying to do it anyway, and it keeps screwing me up. And yes... speed kills. Boy, does it.
I always told myself I had never planned to go all Buckethead on it, that learning how to shred was never my style, and yet I still can't keep myself playing slowly. Go figure. | |
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| learning to play guitar
Posted: 2/16/2007 3:59:00 AM | i would say to start with scales, it helps you build dexterity and then you learn why chords are formed the way they are.
i hated trying to force my fingers into the right positions only to learn i could play the same chord a different way and in different octives!
learn you major scale first, play it in your sleep, then move on to the minor pentatonic.
trust me, you will build dexterity while building your knowledge or music theory! | |
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| learning to play guitar
Posted: 2/17/2007 1:05:28 AM | This might sound a little off base ..but it helped me with my guitar rhythms ... if you can find the time .. get yourself into playing drums . As well as being a melodic instrument ..the guitar is also a percussive instrument , and learning about rhythms and meter by playing drums will help immensely when you hook up with other players .
Another little trick you can play with ... lights out ... whistle or hum a note .. now find it on the guitar . Do another note ..find it again . Work it to the point where ..as you hum the notes ..you play along with them on the guitar . When you get comfy with that ... hum a note ..and play a harmonic note to accompany it . Don't look at the fret board ! lol
Finally ..don't hum the note ..just think of it .. now play it . It's a nice way to bond with your ax .. lol Don't use the same finger all the time when looking for the notes .. use all 4 ..plus the thumb . | |
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| teaching/learning to play guitar
Posted: 2/22/2007 11:45:28 AM | I know everybody has their own approach but I would suggest you check out
http://skepticalguitarist.com
This guy has his stuff EXTREMELY organized and has the sound examples to match his books..
I have to say, I took lessons from this guy for years and he is a very witty guy... and laces that wit & humor in his books. And, he is also accessable, and helpful.
Check his site out..
Good luck | |
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| teaching/learning to play guitar
Posted: 2/23/2007 12:30:52 PM | I never had an official lesson. I learned from books, learned how to read tab, playing with friends, and listening to music and picking out the notes for myself. I know most of the chords now, and if I need to learn new ones for a song my band does then I'll look it up. My ear is good enough at this point that I can play along to a song start to finish before the third take. and I'm getting into soloing now with scales.
The best thing I found that helped me the most was playing with other people in a band/jamming situation. There are things there you just can't learn sitting in a room by yourself.
I may be theory illiterate as someone put it here in this thread, but what do I care? I'm having a blast doing what I do, efficient enough to know songs quickly and now and starting to get paid to do this hobby of mine once or twice a month. Gotta love a "hobby" that throws in pocket money to pay your bar tab.
Cheers.....  | |
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djb65
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Joined: 3/4/2007
Msg: 200 | |
| learning to play guitar
Posted: 3/18/2007 2:00:41 PM | | I tried the "Bert Reedon play with yourself in a day" book but I couldn't get the guitar under the bedclothes. | |
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