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| learning to play guitar
Posted: 3/20/2007 9:12:25 AM | School man School is the best way to learn music. nex is going to where the style begain. | |
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| learning to play guitar
Posted: 3/20/2007 2:18:46 PM | Any tips of reducing string buzz?
A couple of the chords I'm learning, no matter where I put my finger on the string (fingertip, pad, under the nail, straight down, sideways, whatever), the string below the one I'm fretting hits the fretted string when it "bounces back" and produces a harmonic.
Also, any thoughts on how to properly barre a standard F chord? The bottom two strings need to be fretted but my hand can't contort properly, it seems... so I either get all the notes 'cept one of those two, or I barre those two properly and can't fret the rest. | |
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| teaching/learning to play guitar
Posted: 3/20/2007 9:13:37 PM | Start on the rhythm on first. Too many players try to play like SRV too quickly. First get a book on basic chords or download them from the internet. Learn the Power Chord. The major and minor versions of it. Once you have those down, download some tab from the internet on some pretty simple songs (songs with only a handful of chords). Listen to the songs and try to play along using only the power chords at first. Get the rhythm down. Later you can learn all the others -7th, 9th chords etc. Then try to play on your own, no music to play along with. Eventually try some other songs and learn to use some other chords. Well thats it for chapter I.  | |
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| how to properly barre a standard F chord
Posted: 3/20/2007 9:18:57 PM | | Try bending your wrist at a 45 degree angle and barring almost right over the first fret. Make sure your thumb is below the midline of the neck. | |
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| how to properly barre a standard F chord
Posted: 3/21/2007 5:38:59 AM | Try bending your wrist at a 45 degree angle and barring almost right over the first fret.
BAD IDEA
Keep the wrists of both hands as straight as possible or you are inviting a problem known as carpal tunnel syndrome - here's the fix:
http://www.sorehand.com/images/surgery3.gif
Use a guitar strap, adjust it so the headstock (where the tuners are) is above your head, and your "picking hand" is located at a point where your solar plexus would be sans guitar, this will give you the proper posture (wrists/fingers). and prevent injury to your carpal tunnel (wrists).
The guitar should almost hang off the strap even when sitting.
Don't use your fingers for squeezing the strings, use your thumb. Look at your hand, which has the biggest muscle? Your thumb.
Keep your wrists straight as possible at all times, no mre than 10º deflection either way, ....try this experiment, with your wrist straight, make a fist, now try it with your wrist bent up, or down, notice that you have relatively no strength in these positions.
Let your thumb move to where it provides the best leverage, use the WHOLE thumb, the pad, the second joint, and the palm, WHICH EVER gives the best leverage in the neck position/chord you are playing.
Don't lift your fingers way off the strings when changing chords, just let pressure off with your thumb. | |
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| how to properly barre a standard F chord
Posted: 3/21/2007 7:53:33 AM | | Late: I just found this thread - only time to read page 1 and page 9 so if this is covered, I apologize. On page 1 (back in2005) you said callouses are sign of bad technique - could you elaborate, please? | |
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| how to properly barre a standard F chord
Posted: 3/21/2007 9:57:59 AM | By callouses I mean the "hard" type of calouses one gets by say, ...being a bricklayer or carpenter. These are the type that tear easily, not just thickened soft, pliable skin on the finger pads, this is what SHOULD be there if proper technique and posture are observed. Thick brittle callouses also create a string noise problem.
Provided the instrument is indeed "playable", it takes very little pressure to fret a string, it should NEVER hurt.
If you're "pushing" the strings down with the fingers instead squeezing the neck of the thumb/palm, there's a tendency to press too hard, and tear the skin, which leads to the wrong kind (bricklayer/carpenter) type callouses.This is also why having a bent wrist is a bad idea, it changes the point of leverage to the finger tips - bad technique.
The key to good technique is economy of motion and force, using just what is needed of both to get the job done. Many of my students balked at strapping the guitar high as opposed to down at their knees, but this is a necessity for keeping the wrists straight when learning how to play. The guitar should be high enough so that it's supported by the strap (not your hands) whether sitting or standing.
A lousy guitar, or badly set-up one can make it impossible to play with economy of motion/force - this is remedied by replacing/repairing the instrument. Old corroded strings can also tear the skin, make sure you wipe down the strings after you play to inhibit corrosion, and replace strings when they need replacing. All strings (with one exception - flat-wounds) wear in the spots that they contact the frets (faster if technique is bad), making it impossible to intonate, so strings need replacing when they're worn anyway.
Another potential problem is the lack of natural lubrication (sweat) on the finger tips, some people have this problem (some sweat too much...), if your fingers are naturally dry, use the old Chet Atkins trick of rubbing the fingertips down the sides of your nose, ....it's the best skin oil for the job. | |
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| how to properly barre a standard F chord
Posted: 3/21/2007 11:08:50 AM | WRONG
Go look at any pictures of Dave Matthews or Clapton playing and half the time you will see their wrist is flexed or extended.
In general, yes you should bend your wrist as little as possible to avoid carpal tunnel BUT for doing Barre chords I am referring to bending your wrist at a 35-45 degree angle. We are not talking 90 degree bends here! This works fine and WILL NOT give you carpal tunnel unless those are the ONLY types of chords you ever play for hours a day and for months on end without ever learning other chord shapes that will allow your wrist to relax as well . You obviously will progress beyond the barre chord so there isnt any reason to worry. So start with these barre chords then learn other chords and chords shapes as well. | |
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| how to properly barre a standard F chord
Posted: 3/21/2007 12:38:53 PM | Go look at any pictures of Dave Matthews or Clapton playing and half the time you will see their wrist is flexed or extended.
So what? Pick a Ramone and you'll see them play a guitar slung down at their knees, this doesn't mean it's proper technique. Look at the Segovia technique in regards to the right hand angle, then read about how many guitarists have found themselves crippled as a result of playing that way.
Talk to a kinesiologist and they'll tell you the same, there is a "best way" to hold the guitar in order to maximize ergonmics. Bending the wrist to force the index finger down is counter-productive. | |
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| how to properly barre a standard F chord
Posted: 3/21/2007 3:27:47 PM | Okay guys, no need to fight over who's teaching me better.  I appreciate everyone's input.
'sides, I'm a programmer so I'm probably already well on the way towards carpal tunnel.
Looks like I've got the right posture goin' on, and also the "right" kinds of calluses so we're good to go, there. I'll try adjusting my strap and see where that takes me - I have a bad habit of keeping my guitar at an angle instead of directly vertical because I still look at the strings when forming chords. | |
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| how to properly barre a standard F chord
Posted: 3/21/2007 7:01:11 PM | I'm a programmer so I'm probably already well on the way towards carpal tunnel.
You should watch this, it ain't pretty when it happens and it's not easy to manage once the damage is done. If you spend a lot of time at the computer you should also watch out for another problem that's just as permanent.
Cubital tunnel syndrome, - you can get this from leaning your elbows/forearms against your desk. This is another nasty surgery (it involves detatching all the forearm muscles from your elbow and re-attatching them after moving the nerve), and like carpal tunnel surgery, it's only successful about 20% of the time.
I have ulnar nerve damage from an blunt-force injury to my left elbow, ....I can't feel the ring, pinky fingers, or the palm of my hand underneath them. As such, I don't practice anymore, ....ever.
Now I only play when I have to, ...studio sessions or gigs, that's it, period.
Aside from this, be aware that stress injuries are really quite common in musicians, just do a search, tons of books, medical journals, etc, on the subject of guitar technique from the standpoint of limb movements, leverage concepts, proprioception and kinesthesia, anthropometrics, etc. The sooner you get in the habit of good ergonomic technique, the better. There's the added bonus of learning faster too, as your hands are less likely to fatigue. | |
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| how to properly barre a standard F chord
Posted: 3/21/2007 9:08:48 PM | while on the subject of "wrist posture"....
When I first started out...didn't play with a strap for a good two and half years...didn't play too many barred chords either...just not my style...
When I finally bought my 'lectric...got a strap...and all my jamming buddies didn't understand how I could play with the dam strap so short....I just developed a two year habit of playing with the neck in that position....and it's natural for me.....
....I pick up their guitars and CAN'T play them without adjusting the strap....
...start on good habits early...I had a natural tendancy to put too much pressure on the strings cause the muscles in my left hand are tense and have restricted movement...and I'll be damned if I can break out of that habit....it's amazing when you realize how little pressure you need to properly fret the strings....but my mad calouses are healing little by little.... | |
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| how to properly barre a standard F chord
Posted: 3/22/2007 9:18:36 AM | | Late is right I also have been to a hand doctor what he is saying is on the money. I do not even say much on music education because late covers it so well. all i can add is go to school. | |
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| how to properly barre a standard F chord
Posted: 3/22/2007 1:07:18 PM |
You should watch this...
I was kidding, actually.  From what I understand, carpal tunnel in computer-related situations generally comes from using the standard home-row typing position, which kinks the wrists at an unnatural angle. The hands stay motionless while the fingers move.
I don't do that. I taught myself to type by hunting and pecking, so my entire hand moves over the keyboard and my wrist stays at a natural angle.
I'll definitely keep it in mind for my playing, though. Doesn't surprise me at all that musicians get repetitive-motion injuries. | |
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| learning to play guitar
Posted: 5/30/2007 12:40:32 AM | | Pratice, Pratice, is key and mix it up playing. Learning theory, and musical structure is important, but also having fun and enjoying playing or fiddling around on the guitar is too. Tabs you can learn from, but I advised tabs are never 100% acturate period because its interpatation of how the song is played. Watching others play is good, and playing with a better musican will help too. Learning by ear is the best things actually because you use your sense of timing, and rthym to know what you are playing at all times. Knowing your own limtations is good too because its useless to imitate something if it gonna sound terrible. Still, playing a solo of a favorite artist note for note is good, but do your thing with that solo if it better good, if it worse who cares. The key to learning to play guitar is never give up the feeling of guitar, and remembering what started you playing. Everybody advice is good they give on here, Ive played for over 13 years, and overtime I got slowly better, but try to do your thing and not worry about how good the other person guitar playing ability is music is not a sport. | |
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| Remembering what's where on the fretboard
Posted: 1/27/2008 10:28:10 AM | I found a neat little software game called "Fretboard Warrior" on it's own homepage. It's a free download, shareware, that will let you select 2, 5, or a ten minute game.
The game features a fretboard of a six string guitar, and will place a dot on one of the strings and play a note (midi soundfile) that corresponds to the position, then you pick the right (or wrong) label for the position from choices at the bottom of the screen.
It's not the best for the initial learner, but once you have learned a few positions on the neck and understand that there's no b# etc. the rest comes pretty easily, and some patterns become apparent on the neck that you won't know until you learn the position of the notes.
It helped me, hope it helps someone else.
jamz
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| learning to play guitar
Posted: 1/27/2008 11:05:55 AM | | Learn them scales,I'm kicking my ass I never learned them sooner I can see a difference all ready in one week . All I can say that it takes Practice and patience , things will start to "click" eventually. I took no lessons I'm doing everything on my own and keeping it fun, jamming with other people will help too. Watch videos of the greats and see their tricks but I like keeping my style original, but yes do need help like that. and well ofcourse there's them things called lessons that be too simple for me tho lol | |
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| teaching/learning to play guitar
Posted: 1/27/2008 11:27:32 AM | If you are learning on your own, just start really smple and gradually work up frm there. Patience is the key and it will come to you if you put the time into it.
I play by ear, cannot read music, but know the names of the notes and chords. I also play a right hnded guitar upside down (like Jimmy Hendrix). Wish I were as good as Jimmy. | |
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| teaching/learning to play guitar
Posted: 1/27/2008 12:09:44 PM | One thing that intimidates many guitarists, but is much more simple than anyone believes, is learning theory. If you learn the scale/chord relationships you will open numerous doors.
My biggest breakthrough came about as a result of reading a quote from Joe Pass. He said that western music (from this hemisphere) is formulaically simple: major, minor, and dominant seventh. That's the basis for it all. Once I got my head wrapped around that concept, I was able to explore certain techniques and voicings to add to the formula.
Basic theory knowledge will ALWAYS serve you well. | |
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| teaching/learning to play guitar
Posted: 1/28/2008 4:14:49 AM | "Basic theory knowledge will ALWAYS serve you well."
This is a fact. The trouble is combining theory with that "groove" that hits you where you like it. It's discouraging to be able to 'make it happen' but not know why it happened that way to begin with....hence the "I could kick myself for not learning scales and chord theory" expressed by me and other experienced players that can play by ear only.
Learning theory, scales, chords, intervals, and arpeggios etc. and their relationship to the sound you love should be married to DOING it in your style early on. A note for teachers - if you have a student that LOVES a particular song, teach them how to play it. I've been put off by a few teachers that told me "in a little while, you're not there yet" Dang it! where there's a will there's a way, and nothing sounds good the first time a student tries to play it, but if their heart is in it, they'll master it, just so they can hear it when they want to.
There's plenty of freeware, shareware, and internet sites about how to play for the avid student who wants to learn independently, but without a guide that KNOWS where they are headed and is willing to help them get there in spite of their own interest, they will likely not learn in a balanced fashion.
Oh, and thanks tons for all you teachers willing to teach!! Teaching rarely pays enough for what is developed from the effort. You all rock!
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| teaching/learning to play guitar
Posted: 1/28/2008 6:21:59 AM | Msg 220
I find your post miss leading... "major, minor, and dominant seventh."???
The simplicity of playing guitar is being able to count to 5 on your fingers...
The 1st 4th and 5th chord of any scale is the basis for all music i.e.
In the key of E it would be E, A, and B.
Then after you identify that pattern in any song you can transpose the song to any key starting with the dominant chord...
E transposes to A... E, A, and B....A B C D E F G A
................................A, D, and E.... 1.....4, 5.
Just count 1, 4, and 5 starting with the key letter.... | |
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| teaching/learning to play guitar
Posted: 1/28/2008 4:17:34 PM | | I don't see how it's misleading at all. You're talking about a I, IV, V as in blues or rock. The formula I cited extends beyond that structure. No offense, but I'll listen to Joe Pass over someone posting on a POF forum any day. | |
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| teaching/learning to play guitar
Posted: 1/29/2008 3:36:04 AM | No offense taken...
You can't see how it's misleading!
Well it's simple, you say it's the basis of all western music....
Well it's not!
People like you confuse and frustrate students, with statements like that.... | |
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44Boz
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Joined: 6/22/2007
Msg: 225 | |
| teaching/learning to play guitar
Posted: 1/29/2008 7:00:21 AM | A chord has to be (at it's most basic) a major or a minor chord. The most common chord extension is the dominant 7th
Taking the example of E, A, B. That is most commonly played as E, A, B7. a.k.a B dominant 7th. The building blocks for chords are the 1st, 3rd and 5th of the relevant scale.
The 1st 4th and 5th chord of any scale is the basis for all music i.e.
That would be true if there were only one scale.
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