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 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 51
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Um, that's sort of the point.

When you're dealing with a crisis - like the one the President stepped into upon his inauguration - you take crisis management measures. There was a lack of liquidity and confidence in the economy. All the economists and analysts were saying that we were facing a recession turning into a depression. By getting people working and spending money your President addressed the crisis.
 BlokeInSydney
Joined: 5/7/2012
Msg: 52
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Posted: 7/22/2012 6:22:38 PM

When you're dealing with a crisis - like the one the President stepped into upon his inauguration - you take crisis management measures. There was a lack of liquidity and confidence in the economy. All the economists and analysts were saying that we were facing a recession turning into a depression. By getting people working and spending money your President addressed the crisis.

The minute the crisis hit over here, the Prime Minister guaranteed the big 4 banks and made a direct $1,000 payment to most citizens to encourage individual spending and kick-start to retail and manufacturing sector.

Government finances took a short-term hit but we did not go into recession. The economy was stimulated and confidence was maintained in the financial system.

We also benefit from robust government financial regulation so there are fewer 'cowboys' over here and certainly none of the dodgy sub-prime products that have created so much heartache in the US.
 Double Cabin
Joined: 11/29/2004
Msg: 53
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Posted: 7/22/2012 6:35:14 PM
"Hey schoochie............

Pointing to roads being re-built as "shovel ready jobs" is about what I would expect from you. What happens to those jobs once the union workers have milked all of the time necessary to build them, and the raods are complete?

You do realize that ALL those type of jobs are not permanent, they only last until the project is comlete. But, hey why think that far ahead........ right?

Paul K "

You think the President would have pushed for the cost raising kwap of privitaization in highway construction, sanitation, incarceration, etc? Have you had your medication checked lately? You blame the President for Republican inspired Catch 22s? WTF is wrong with you?

Reagen was left of Obama folks. Raise taxes NUMEROUS times. And he didn't have to deal with several million jobs dissapearing forever overseas like this President has.Corporations paid 30% of the Tax burden under Eisenhower as opposed to less than 7% now, yet MILLIONS of jobs were created and the interstate highway system essentially got built in less than a dozen years. Clinton pushed through one of the biggest tax increases in history and ultimately oversaw the creation of...wait for it..27,000,000 jobs. And with all the fecal material you've woofed down from Boehner and McConnel you blame the President for this? Really, go see your Dr.If you have any loved ones they must be scared poopless abut you.

"Think! It's Very Patriotic." Especially if you make the effort to do it critically.
 skoochie
Joined: 4/29/2008
Msg: 54
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Posted: 7/22/2012 7:14:19 PM
Greenthumb,

Way to get in there and post a URL taking me to an article written before the stimulus was even passed by Congress. That article doesn't even have the actual amount of the stimulus right. It was a 787 billion dollar bill rather than the 819 billion you and your article believe it to be. If you don't even have the total spending right, how can you say what percentage went where? You're pulling your info from a pre-stimulus source. Lol!!! Try finding a more current source to cite; one with the actual facts in it. Lol!!!
 GreenThumbz18
Joined: 4/25/2012
Msg: 55
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Posted: 7/23/2012 8:38:12 AM
Msg 64 - Paul , don't listen to what they say. Watch what they do!!
In this case, after those construction projects have been done(union labor only), then they need to be Re-done!! Union labor only.
Here in sunny California our Governor has pushed for and signed a bill sucking up many billions of taxpayer dollars, to (maybe) build a high-speed train from nowhere to nowhere, in the worst earthquake area possible. But, it will "create" jobs. Too bad it won't create the "money" for those jobs, but if this project doesn't bear fruit, we can all blame Governor Brown, who will have been dead for 20 years by then. Good career move, Jerry!!

Skooch,,, stop splitting hairs. It doesn't win arguments.
 flyguy51
Joined: 8/11/2005
Msg: 56
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Posted: 7/31/2012 11:49:15 AM
This speech has been quoted out of some very vital context and spread all throughout Romney's campaign advertising. Not surprisingly, Fox News was chiming in in similar fashion.

This is at least as bad as what congressman Alan Grayson did to his opponent during a reelection bid, although he later toned down the rhetoric after much criticism.

Stay classy, Romney campaign and Fox News!
 Blalah
Joined: 3/25/2012
Msg: 57
Latest Barry Speech
Posted: 8/7/2012 8:29:24 PM
When Michael Phelps, Gabby Douglas and Missy Franklin get back stateside, all of their Olympic gold medals will be confiscated, melted down and each one made into ten smaller gold pieces. They will be allowed to keep 6 of the small gold pieces and be required to forfeit 4 for each gold medal they won.

Apparently it has been discovered that they all traveled over roads and bridges on their way to the gym to train for 12 hours a day, 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year for the past 4 years.
 unYOUsual
Joined: 8/11/2011
Msg: 58
Latest Barry Speech
Posted: 8/8/2012 6:19:35 AM
BS...
This speech has been quoted out of some very vital context and spread all throughout Romney's campaign advertising.
Read the transcript of his speech then try again...I guess you Libs think if you tell a lie long enough people will accept it as the truth...
Here's where your argument about context falls apart..."If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life."...

"Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business, you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen,” Out of context really? why did he say you didn't build that instead of them if he was really referring to roads and bridges?
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 59
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Posted: 8/8/2012 6:53:45 AM

Read the transcript of his speech then try again...I guess you Libs think if you tell a lie long enough people will accept it as the truth.

Nope that was Bush.

"See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda." G. W. Bush




Here's where your argument about context falls apart..."If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life."...

"Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business, you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen,”...Out of context really?

Yes out of context as here is the whole passage highlighted are the parts that where left out.

There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me -- because they want to give something back. They know they didn’t -- look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something -- there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there. (Applause.)

If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business -- you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.

The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we don’t do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires…



Thanks for the irony, that was a good one.
 one eyed jacks
Joined: 4/5/2009
Msg: 60
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Posted: 8/8/2012 7:11:02 AM
Read the transcript of his speech then try again...I guess you Libs think if you tell a lie long enough people will accept it as the truth...
Here's where your argument about context falls apart..."If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life."...

"Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business, you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen,” Out of context really? why did he say you didn't build that instead of them if he was really referring to roads and bridges?


It is your argument that falls apart. You have posted 2 lines from the speech and left out a bit in the middle of them. here is the whole section from that speech.



"There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me -- because they want to give something back. They know they didn’t -- look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something -- there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there.

"If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business -- you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.

"The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we don’t do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires.

"So we say to ourselves, ever since the founding of this country, you know what, there are some things we do better together. That’s how we funded the G.I. Bill. That’s how we created the middle class. That’s how we built the Golden Gate Bridge or the Hoover Dam. That’s how we invented the Internet. That’s how we sent a man to the moon. We rise or fall together as one nation and as one people, and that’s the reason I’m running for President -- because I still believe in that idea. You’re not on your own, we’re in this together."


It is pretty obvious to me that he is saying if you were successful, you had some help along the way. You were educated in a public school system. Your goods travel to market on public roads and bridges. Government keeps your factories and customers safe. You don't have to worry about your truckload of goods being highjacked by pirates and criminal gangs.

It is the public systems in place that allows businesses to thrive.

Elizabeth Warren said much the same thing in this speech a year ago.


“I hear all this, you know, ‘Well, this is class warfare, this is whatever,’” she said. “No. There is nobody in this country who got rich on his own. Nobody.

“You built a factory out there? Good for you. But I want to be clear: you moved your goods to market on the roads the rest of us paid for; you hired workers the rest of us paid to educate; you were safe in your factory because of police forces and fire forces that the rest of us paid for. You didn’t have to worry that marauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory, and hire someone to protect against this, because of the work the rest of us did.

“Now look, you built a factory and it turned into something terrific, or a great idea? God bless. Keep a big hunk of it. But part of the underlying social contract is you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along.”


The video of that speech can be seen here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htX2usfqMEs&feature=player_embedded



EDIT: Aristotle beat me to the punch but I will leave this up for those that have not heard Elizabeth Warrens speech.
 BlokeInSydney
Joined: 5/7/2012
Msg: 61
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Posted: 8/8/2012 10:01:42 AM

It is the public systems in place that allows businesses to thrive.

The greedy ones who want to keep every cent won't accept this. Nobody likes paying taxes, but over here they pay for infrastructure, a well regulated financial system, police, post, education, courts, two national broadcasters and even universal health care.

Nobody does it on their own, even those who have a unique idea, this idea is protected through patents and legal framework and a stable government and banking system to make sure your profits are protected, but you still have to pay your fair share.
 lovefun99
Joined: 6/14/2010
Msg: 62
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Posted: 8/8/2012 10:04:24 AM

The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.


Very ironic and also untrue. Read my earlier post about this....
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 63
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Posted: 8/8/2012 10:32:56 AM
The argument is just as dumb, whether made by Barack Hussein Obama or Elizabeth "Pocahontas" Warren. The Ivy League education seems to be slipping.

Most of what's usually called infrastructure--roads, schools, airports, dams, utilities, public safety services, etc.--is built by states, and not by the federal government. And businesses, which benefit from these things, help pay for them through taxes, by investing in them through bonds, etc., just like individuals do. It's true that a state at times will give private businesses various incentives to locate there--cheap land and utilities, tax breaks, and so on--but when states do that, they are acknowledging the jobs and other public benefits those businesses bring with them.

This President, like all statists, is hostile to free private enterprise--pure and simple. Leftists see traditional American institutions like family, church, and private business as obstacles between the individual citizen and the state. That's why they are always attacking those things--they want people to turn to government for almost everything. The Obama administration's fictional character "Julia" is their icon of the citizen in modern America.
 GreenThumbz18
Joined: 4/25/2012
Msg: 64
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Posted: 8/8/2012 10:54:45 AM
"The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet."

Most of what we use on the Internet(TCP/IP, GUI) was invented by Xerox, then purchased by Apple Computer, in a VERY astute move by Steve Jobs, who saw the potential of this, when other companies did not.

The precursers of the Internet were funded by Gov't money, so it's fair to say that the Gov't "invented" the Internet. It's equally fair to say that the Internet was of little value to anyone until "private enterprise" arrived and pumped major investment and brainpower into these processes and created giant businesses , such as we now know Google, Facebook, Yahoo, Ebay, and a million others, small and large.

Below - Not sure about your facts,,, Netscape's first web browser was released in October 1994.
Regardless , the Internet that Obama spoke of IS in fact the commercially successful version, NOT the government version.
Actually, my favorite story is the Wright brothers little invention. What Gov't agency set them up?

And furthermore, if we want to go there, who invented phone lines that COULD transmit signals?
 lovefun99
Joined: 6/14/2010
Msg: 65
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Posted: 8/8/2012 11:04:09 AM
The government created the internet so in case of nuclear war all lines of communications could not be severed. It did not create it so businesses could make money.
The internet was only available to the government and select educational institutions until 1995. At that time a Mr. Tim Berners-Lee working for CERN (a Swiss institute) created the WWW which made it possible for businesses to start using and profiting from the internet.
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 66
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Posted: 8/8/2012 11:16:58 AM

The government created the internet so in case of nuclear war all lines of communications could not be severed. It did not create it so businesses could make money...

Exactly, which the point of the whole discussion and something that people seem to fail to understand.

As most inventions that we use today where the product of something else, but that something else laid the ground work for it to be possible, ergo: they paved the way.

Much in the same way that drug companies discover new drugs. They think it may do X, but when they do the trials they see that it also does Y and ergo they have a new drug that had nothing to do with X, but only exists because they went looking for X.


Think of all the products that are currently in hospitals and you will soon realize that many of them got their roots from principles discovered by physicists and are based on designs developed by engineers which mostly came out of NASA, so HP and other such companies basically took what was already invented and re-tooled it for the medical community, thus they did it with the help of the citizens of the US who pay taxes to fund programs like NASA.
 DameWrite
Joined: 2/27/2010
Msg: 67
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Posted: 8/8/2012 11:30:34 AM
I think when we create with love instead of out of fear or lack, it works better for all. Since most of the " gov't's" action is based on fear or lack that they've switched to greed, hijacking their ways is dumb.

Why not start brand new and see where we go from here? Has the creator in us fallen behind because we are so used to letting others do it for us? Even when we do not like the results, we still allow this? Are we that squashed? I hope not.
Individual actions and creation must come to the surface if we want change.

Are we brave enough?
Smart enough not to light fires that we can't put out for ourselves?
 GreenThumbz18
Joined: 4/25/2012
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Posted: 8/8/2012 11:44:29 AM
^^^^^^
"Think of all the products that are currently in hospitals and you will soon realize that many of them got their roots from principles discovered by physicists and are based on designs developed by engineers which mostly came out of NASA, "

Or, more recently, Israeli scientists and inventors.

Let's face it, that speech of Obama's was a major mistake. What he was saying, though apparently not even an original thought, is that "YOU" cannot accomplish anything without "US". This same attitude permeates all actions by this administration, completely contrary to any economic progress, as is evidenced by our worsening situation.
 Kings_Knight
Joined: 1/20/2009
Msg: 69
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Posted: 8/8/2012 11:58:34 AM
Obama: "You didn't build that - somebody else did that." ... umm - not so much.

The classic Obamite examples of 'You didn't build that' and the inputs from the unnamed 'somebody elses' is always - without exception - targeted to specifics (when he deigns to use any) such as 'roads' or 'teachers' or 'bridges'. These 'examples', for those Obamites who willingly swallow every offered glass of Kool-Aid®, are ALL connected to UNIONS. Coincidence ... ? Why, sure it is. Just like it's 'coincidence' that the 'Easter Bunny' lays eggs. These connections are all pre-planned to achieve a specific effect on a specific audience. NONE of his examples give any credit to individual persistence, tough-mindedness, or ability to perceive and exploit an opportunity in a given market. His 'examples' are of GOVERNMENT, not of INDIVIDUALS. He has no use for individual accomplishment - only the heavy dead hand of misguided 'command-and-control' governmental policy that attempts to pick 'winners' and 'losers' (say 'Solyndra' with me, won't you?) ...

On a related aspect of Obama's 'command-and-control' diktat: For any Obamites curious about what impact(-s) 'ObamaCare' will impose, a small peek into the future was offered today by 'Papa John' - your pizza's gonna cost you more as a direct impact of costs imposed by 'Obamacare' - be sure to ask for some extra cheese to go with that whine ... and remember, you asked for it when you pulled the lever for 'The Un' ...
 one eyed jacks
Joined: 4/5/2009
Msg: 70
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Posted: 8/8/2012 11:59:36 AM

Let's face it, that speech of Obama's was a major mistake. What he was saying, though apparently not even an original thought, is that "YOU" cannot accomplish anything without "US". This same attitude permeates all actions by this administration, completely contrary to any economic progress, as is evidenced by our worsening situation.


Good grief. Did you really read it or do you have comprehension problems? The point President Obama was trying to make is that a public infrustructure is necessary for everyone to succeeed. You need roads. You need education. You need a working government. If those things are not in place your business is not going to succeeed.

And all those things are paid for by "US" so "YOU" can accomplish your goals.
 DameWrite
Joined: 2/27/2010
Msg: 71
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Posted: 8/8/2012 12:17:56 PM

NONE of his examples give any credit to individual persistence, tough-mindedness, or ability to perceive and exploit an opportunity in a given market.


Good point, it's always wise to "read" what is left out. From ANY administration.

Also ask...who benefits? Follow the money.

again They are ALL in it for themselves. The appease the people who put them in the position they want.

They appease the $ guys because they believe in lack and are afraid.

They'll always appease the money men first because they are greedy "tards themselves.

They appease the voters because they are insecure and insincere.

Count on yourselves and please those only who are deserving. Appeasing is just a rung to get on top of you.
 GreenThumbz18
Joined: 4/25/2012
Msg: 72
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Posted: 8/8/2012 1:09:57 PM
^^^^^^
"And all those things are paid for by "US" so "YOU" can accomplish your goals."

Correction - Those things are paid for by US so that WE ALL accomplish our goals. If your goal is to risk your time and capital and start a business "YOU" can do that. If your goal is to watch Oprah all day and wait for the Gov't check to come, "YOU" can do that too.

Msg - 72 Those teachers, road-builders and such,,, they are well-compensated for their services, are they not? It's not like they did those things out of altruism.
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 73
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Posted: 8/8/2012 1:51:56 PM

And all those things are paid for by "US" so "YOU" can accomplish your goals.


Private businesses pay for public services they use through taxes, just like everyone else.


The point President Obama was trying to make is that a public infrustructure is necessary for everyone to succeeed. You need roads. You need education. You need a working government. If those things are not in place your business is not going to succeeed.


Gosh, thanks for telling us that, Mr. Obama. We never would have figured out that we need our state governments to provide our public schools, fire departments, parks, bridges, libraries, and so on.
 DameWrite
Joined: 2/27/2010
Msg: 74
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Posted: 8/8/2012 4:49:57 PM
This bickering over semantics is kind of funny. (not). Do you vote for who writes the better spinspeeches? Again, follow the money...if you can find it.

Make you vote count and count them ALL out and count yourself in. These games can stop, if you refuse to play/pay.
 GreenThumbz18
Joined: 4/25/2012
Msg: 75
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Posted: 8/8/2012 6:02:12 PM
^^^^^^
"This bickering over semantics is kind of funny."
Yup, especially when you consider that most of the bickering comes from those who don't vote:)
Why complain about a restaurant if you've never eaten there and never will?
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