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Show ALL Forums  > Dating and Love Advice  > Nice women finish last too?      Home login  
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 bibliophile1
Joined: 12/11/2012
Msg: 26
Nice women finish last too?Page 2 of 4    (1, 2, 3, 4)

and treat guys with disrespect.


I'll believe that when I see you treating women with respect, which you are not doing.

Do you think we women can help what we find attractive sometimes? I would date a shorter guy but I cannot find a shorter guy attractive, no matter how hard I try. I have dated men who are my height and I am 5ft 4". Please come to this from a point of understanding and not make it into a blame game. Dating is not a meritocracy. Both genders find dating difficult for various reasons. Women do not have an easier time, no matter what you seem to think. If we can all show others empathy and humility, then that goes a long way.

There is nothing wrong with either gender having preferences as long as we are honest about them and are aware of the limitations. I would never date a guy who didn't meet my standards because it would not be fair on either of us. I think a guy deserves a woman who thinks the world of him and vice versa. And turn around your way of thinking. Dating is not about accepting you. YOU accept you. Dating is a way for you to choose a woman you think is compatible with you. Don't let the opposite sex decide your self-worth. And stop being so narrow-minded. Date lots of women. Don't judge on outward appearances.

You are talking about a subset of women. I don't judge on looks. Either I find someone attractive or I don't. I can't fathom why. It's based on how I feel and not what other people think. I have never and wouldn't refer to a man as a shallow. I just wouldn't. I don't think men are shallow for going for a woman's looks. But I would want a man who liked my looks. Call that shallow if you want but I am definitely not a hypocrite and I have never said a word wrong about a man.

I did have an awful boyfriend who verbally and physically abused me. It would be insulting for you to suggest that I "like jerks" as if I would voluntarily submit myself to abuse. You are really misunderstanding something. Women like jerks "in spite of" them being jerks and not because they are jerks. It is the confidence they have, which is also a trait in a lot of guys who aren't jerks. Confidence is to women what looks are to men. So you get some men staying with a woman who treats him like crap because she is sexy and good looking. I have seen that happen plenty of times. So these men go for female jerks "in spite of" that quality because they are good looking.

Women do not want jerks. They do not want to be treated badly. Maybe some women are addicted to the drama but you should be sympathetic towards those women and not hurtful. Unfortunately some people experience a lot of pain and keep falling back into it.


And yet this thread sticks around? (Note that my physical requirements for women are far less sleazy and shallow than looking like supermodels.)


You say you are not sleazy but you are shallow in a different way. You are bringing out your Madonna-Whore complex. Really we are all human beings. Quit putting women into boxes. Show some respect and love.

@rockstar_nj1182 - I like your posts. You're a good person. And I know exactly what you mean about women saying they want "tall, dark and handsome" or whatever. I have seen men say in their profiles something along the lines of "I generally go for blondes but I'm not that fussy. If you feel like messaging me, then go ahead". It's automatically alienating. No one wants to feel second-best. Once my ex-bf once let slip that he "prefers redheads". Well he dumped me and had a red-haired girlfriend now. Personally I don't care what type of colouring someone has. Maybe I'm not someone's ideal type but I don't want to be made aware of it straight away.

OP, you sound lovely but you never know what type of guy you might find attractive. He might be someone you didn't expect.
 rockstar_nj1182
Joined: 12/5/2012
Msg: 27
Nice women finish last too?
Posted: 1/10/2013 2:08:50 PM


Oh Waaah! Here is a newsflash for you, women dont have to do anything, if a woman isnt attracted to you, thats not her problem, if a woman is attracted to taller men and you dont meet the bar, then that isnt her problem. Stop wasting all your time trying to preach to women about how wrong they are and in their parameters of who they want to date. They dont need or want your advice. Just like you dont want women telling you that you should date women that arent attractive to you.

I think the worst part of all you pity paraders is the arrogance that you know what is best for these women, that you are that much smarter than them that you feel the need to lecture them. Nothing more attractive than some clown trying to tell me what is right for me like I am some sort of small child.


OK, you people are getting REALLY old with this BS. Go back and reread everything again.

First off, I never said women have to do anything. I never said she had to be attracted to me. All I said is that the more she limits her choices, the less options she has. Just like if I only dated blondes, then my choices are only blondes. Clearly, you were too stupid to understand this and resulted to attacking me.

Try acytually READING what is being said before you jump on your "PITY PARADING" crusade. I'm not looking for any sympathy from anyone. I made a comment on how the OP seems to not be able to meet anyone when her list of preferecnces are very self-defeating. Where you get this idea I"m looking for pity is completely beyond me.

Please, learn to comprehend what you read before chiming in anymore.
 NonamousDog
Joined: 4/20/2011
Msg: 28
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History
Nice women finish last too?
Posted: 1/10/2013 2:27:09 PM
If a man had posted the original post, he would have called a whiner, etc., probably by all those women posting here about a "pity parade" by the men in this thread.

How 'bout some equality of the genders? Whining is whining, even if it's a woman doing it.
 minervyx
Joined: 5/25/2011
Msg: 29
Nice women finish last too?
Posted: 1/10/2013 2:47:39 PM
i really like women who are nice, sweet, kind and caring.

but some "nice women" have qualities that i don't like:
* they are too shy and can't carry a conversation
* they are desperate and seek validation from the first half-decent man they meet
* they may be too prim and proper to take a joke or dish one out at me
 Stray__Cat
Joined: 7/12/2006
Msg: 30
view profile
History
Nice women finish last too?
Posted: 1/10/2013 2:57:23 PM
It's not you.
It's just dating.

Starting out we are often unusually nice and charming.
Cus hey we like the person.... and want he/she to like us as well.
Then after a while the real us emerges.
(or rather more facets of ourselves)

If the person we are dating is compatible...
then new facets entrance and charm.
If not...
they annoy.

I can offer no good advice how
to know compatibility going in.
We just have to date and find out.

Perhaps be more open about ourselves.
but hold back going all gooey on someone till we know him/her very well.
If compatible....the process will still be bumpy.
But we'll ride over the bumps like a 4-wheeler
and enjoy the craziness of it.

If not.
Them bumps hurt.
 AintNoDeal
Joined: 2/3/2010
Msg: 31
Nice women finish last too?
Posted: 1/10/2013 7:54:29 PM

but some "nice women" have qualities that i don't like:
* they are too shy and can't carry a conversation
* they are desperate and seek validation from the first half-decent man they meet
* they may be too prim and proper to take a joke or dish one out at me


Some people may meet OP and say she is "nice and sweet", but what they are thinking is "dull as dishwater".

Yes, I have dated some of those women who can't carry the light end of a drumstick in a conversation - uttering less than 10 sentences or answering only Yes or No to any question or comment.

Sometimes "nice" is just nice, and sometimes "nice" is "I have no interest in you at all". Anyone can finish last. It is up to each of us to sit up, pay attention and MAKE A CHANGE that will attract the kind of people we want in our lives. Sure...you can sit around for eternity hoping for someone to stumble into you - if that's your speed.
 Handyman0018
Joined: 11/10/2012
Msg: 32
Nice women finish last too?
Posted: 1/10/2013 7:59:20 PM
Well said mosena87.
"Just keep being you and you'll eventually find a good man who treats you right."
 sun_and_cinnamon
Joined: 12/12/2012
Msg: 33
Nice women finish last too?
Posted: 1/11/2013 1:07:44 AM

sun_and_cinnamon, I looked at your profile. You don't strike me as "nice and sweet". Your profile says that you want someone rugged and tall. How do you think a guy like me looks at your profile? Do you honestly think I read it and say "She wants someone rugged and tall, how sweet!"? No, I think you are another spoiled princess on a dating website who is 5'3" but is looking for Mr. Dark, Tall, and Handsome. Thanks, but no thanks, I'll pass.

I wonder if you are really that nice and sweet. I've met women who are genuinely very nice and sweet. But I've also meet for example the popular girls in high school who were extremely nice and sweet when hanging out with their girlfriends and talking to the quarterback but was a total jerk to the band geeks. Are you really nice and sweet, do you act this way naturally and towards everyone?

I wonder how many guys who are "nice and sweet" themselves and totally would dig your personality and rejected them because they didn't meet your standards of "rugged and tall" or some other standard or perhaps you yourself thought of them as a "doormat".

Regardless, I have met some women who are too nice and sweet. The problem there is their personality just didn't gel with mine. I am fascinated with science and history and movies and they got skiddish at the mere thought of dead animals and gore. Bit of a turn off. But if I met a woman who was truly nice and sweet and we did gel, I would be crazy about her. The whole "doormat" thing would never cross my mind. Honestly, I think good guys (and good women) don't think in those terms, we are naturally nice for the most part and think someone who is nice is just normal or attractive. We don't think of whether we can manipulate the person. Yea, if you are really nice and sweet, I'd be really into that. I just get this feeling that you wouldn't be all into me.

That's the fundamental question. Are you truly nice and sweet and are you attracted to the nice guys who appreciate that?


When the hell did this turn into critiquing my profile and what apparently I am looking for?? I am a "spoiled" princess because I am attracted to "tall and rugged" men? Mr Tall, Dark and Handsome...your words, not mine. Presumptuous much? Didn't your mother teach you what assuming things does? No tall and rugged are NOT my only 'standards' or 'preferences'. Who the hell in this thread gives a crap what I am looking for anyway? It was not about that. Yes, that is what I find attractive. Tho there are loads of other things, other than the physical however. Does that mean I should say the same to all the men that prefer blondes, or the profiles of men I have come across "Do not contact me unless you are very fit and athletic"? Shoot, I don't fall into any of those and I am not gonna go cry a shit storm because that is what they chose to put in their profile. If you want something subsantial it has got to be more than looks.

You get the feeling that I wouldn't be into you at all? Wow gone completely off track....

BrianFromUSA, take it as you will. I am not going to sit here and convince you how genuinely "nice and sweet" I am to people, and how I follow the golden rule of treating those how I want to be treated. Finding your whole response slightly obnoxious...
 sun_and_cinnamon
Joined: 12/12/2012
Msg: 34
Nice women finish last too?
Posted: 1/11/2013 1:15:41 AM

Holy crap, is this some sort of pity parade? How many of you guys are going to come on here and play one upmanship with this woman? Like it just isnt possible that you dont have the market cornered on being overlooked, just because the Op is reasonable attractive, it doesnt mean that she has the pick of whomever she is interested in. I know that you want to believe that only men have it hard in the dating world, and that women have all the advantages, the problem is that just isnt the truth....


Agreed. Farthest from the truth. Had my fair share of rejection. Men wanting to see if 'the grass is greener on the otherside' so to speak. There is always going to be someone more attractive, smarter, etc...pick myself up again and move along.
 sun_and_cinnamon
Joined: 12/12/2012
Msg: 35
Nice women finish last too?
Posted: 1/11/2013 1:46:49 AM

what behavior do you see as being treated like a doormat?
Are these first-meets who come to an erroneous conclusion that you have no spine and you never get a second date?
Or are they longer-term relationships?


Not exactly sure how to answer that...
In some of my dating experiences, I think some men have seen my personality and think they can take advantage....and yes because of the whole "nice/sweet" thing. I am told this by friends and coworkers all the time as well, so I do not just hear it from men I date. I can be a people pleaser BUT know where to draw a line now. That has definitely been something I have had to work on. I have also experienced, manipulative men, they want to milk you for all you've got and respect is lost- on my end. When I then speak up about such behaviour, they're out.

As for the second question, I could say yes, I have been rejected after first dates/meets and no second date. Not sure tho if it was an erroneous conclusion on my end, or simply no attraction, spark, chemistry, interest, etc. If I tend to have enough interest in someone I will want to see them a second time just to see how it goes, even if no fire works the first time. I realize not everyone is the same way tho.
 Handyman0018
Joined: 11/10/2012
Msg: 36
Nice women finish last too?
Posted: 1/11/2013 1:51:39 AM
You are 29 years old and looking for a man mid 30s to mid 40s who is tall and rugged? What exactly do you think you would have in common with a 45 year old man? More importantly what would a 45 year old man have in common with you? Dating a 35 year old man might even be a stretch considering that you seem to be somewhat of a "free spirit". I'm sorry but your profile really smacks of hunting for a sugar daddy and something seems fishy (no pun intended).

Perhaps the reason you have been treated poorly is because you are looking for men in an age range where most men are settled down already and may be bored and just looking to you for excitement in their lives. Age should be a primary factor when looking for a compatible mate. Well anyways don't take any of this personally because I don't really know you, I'm just giving you my thoughts/impressions. You seem to be smart and good looking so all is not lost, good luck.
 sun_and_cinnamon
Joined: 12/12/2012
Msg: 37
Nice women finish last too?
Posted: 1/11/2013 1:53:32 AM

just noticed that myself, you can't call yourself nice and sweet and different if you go making a criteria list in your own profile. Take that line out and accept that average men are decent enough too.


I do not have a huge list of "criteria"

So average men cannot be "tall and rugged" too?
 sun_and_cinnamon
Joined: 12/12/2012
Msg: 38
Nice women finish last too?
Posted: 1/11/2013 2:05:37 AM
Handyman018,
I have preferred to date men 8-12 years older ever since 18. I have dated men close in age as well, and to be honest have ended up having better relationships with slightly older men. I am more attracted to them for many reasons, but not the point. Not "hunting" for a sugar daddy either. I tend to date based on someones heart, not their income. I don't know why so many have such an issue with age differences, and it still comes off as taboo to most. One of my longest relationships ended up being with someone older, who is now 43. My age range in my profile is 34-43, I don't really find it so shocking.
 Handyman0018
Joined: 11/10/2012
Msg: 39
Nice women finish last too?
Posted: 1/11/2013 2:10:21 AM
No you misunderstand, I'm telling you that younger women don't chase after older men generally and it seems like you have a hidden agenda. Or that is what someone might take away from reading your profile. You may want to leave out exact numbers and just say that you simply "prefer older men". I don't know you and can't say either way, just giving my opinion :)
 juliettes7
Joined: 11/4/2012
Msg: 40
Nice women finish last too?
Posted: 1/11/2013 2:34:35 AM
Are these older men treating you as a doormat? If so, that dominating aspect is the dynamic of big age gaps of 10ish years--the older is dominant, knows more in a sense, is more world weary, could find the younger malleable but naive. Some men may like that dynamic, some may not.
Being nice at 29 is to be expected OP. The first time someone called me a b I was really hurt by that. Fast forward a decade -- you will have fought battles, taken some krap, survived and won't quiver, back down or doubt yourself
as much. Hit 40, you will just want to be authentically you, will find it easier not to be guilt tripped or manipulated and won't wonder--"was it something I did?" because frankly there are bigger issues than other people's judgements and disapproval. The values get prioritized so that is last on your list.
As for men attacking her for wanting a tall guy, etc. It is supply and demand. She can ask and the tall guy attracted to her exists. I've lived in places with more women than men--just how it is and you have to accept it. You men won't date a fat woman so does that make you entitled? It doesn't matter you can't change your height. Being short, one's race, facial features, hair, even body type--one can't change but that doesn't mean we're entitled to be attractive to anyone. They are attracted or they aren't.
 sun_and_cinnamon
Joined: 12/12/2012
Msg: 41
Nice women finish last too?
Posted: 1/11/2013 2:42:29 AM
Oddly enough juliettes7, I have found it to be more so with men closer in age to me. For the most part, the older men have generally been more respectful gentlemen.
 juliettes7
Joined: 11/4/2012
Msg: 42
Nice women finish last too?
Posted: 1/11/2013 2:54:47 AM
Maybe they weren't ready to settle down and created drama? I found men often need some tension--not knowing if it will work, if she is conquerable, a "challenge" or they will throw in roadblocks by being superior, demanding, condescending/aloof then if you go away--they are attracted again. I dunno. But I definitely didn't enjoy the roller coaster. I found that the interesting guy who wanted to be content with just one good woman- a unicorn. But maybe I'm too jaded and you will soon have success, being sweet and unspoiled. When I meet people like that it reminds me of being innocent and hopeful, idealistic. Those are good things.
 _Midnight_City
Joined: 1/6/2013
Msg: 43
Nice women finish last too?
Posted: 1/11/2013 5:24:21 AM
Maybe the OP is not "picky" enough. I get the feeling that some of the guys that the OP dates aren't the sharpest tools in the shed. Sure they're older, taller, and more "rugged" (or whatever) , but not very smart. If these guys were intelligent, at least one of them would already be in a relationship with the OP.
 BrianFromUSA
Joined: 9/9/2012
Msg: 44
Nice women finish last too?
Posted: 1/11/2013 6:01:58 AM

I'll believe that when I see you treating women with respect, which you are not doing.

I should clarify that respect has to be earned and mutual. Women shouldn't be respected when they make shallow judgments on my qualities as a person and potential boyfriend before I'd even entered the room. Moreover, respect doesn't mean withholding one's honest opinion when it is asked for or required. I respect my guy friends, we still tell each other when we're being foolish.

Women like jerks "in spite of" them being jerks and not because they are jerks.

If a guy is abusing you or is otherwise a jerk, that air of confidence you see is fake. Moreover, when guys exhibit fake confidence, it is often obvious.

sun_and_cinnamon, thanks for demonstrating that, as I suspected, you aren't genuinely a nice and sweet person.

I personally don't care if a woman is particularly physically attractive, I don't care if a woman looked like a supermodel. However, if I were into very thin women, I wouldn't write that on my profile. I know how negative and mean that would seem to others and wouldn't wish to treat others that way. Moreover, I know women would tear me to shreds for that, I would be deemed a shallow jerk and there'd be no talk about how I'm entitled to my preferences. Rightfully so. Being nice requires a certain awareness of such things.

It strikes me that at the heart of this idea that "nice guys/women finish last" is a deeply troubling and manipulative mentality. It seems as if some women think guys are manipulative, as if there is a grand conspiracy of guys who plan on tricking women by opening doors and buying flowers. It seems as if some think that nice people are doormats, as if there is a mass group of guys who meet a woman who is nice, sweet, and generally wonderful and think "Blah, I'll pass. She's too easy to manipulate. I want more of a challenge." (Why would a woman want a guy like that anyways?) In short, you would have to think that the vast majority of guys (or women) are manipulative jerks to believe this. This seems to suggest more a manipulative attitude of the person thinking this. This is just not how a healthy, good person reasons. This belief is utterly absurd. I honestly don't know how dating has become about things like this. I know some people are manipulative, but I genuinely hope and doubt that most women and men are not this manipulative.

The problem is not just one or two but numerous women on their profiles and in the forums express these attitudes of wanting tall hot guys (tall and rugged is a mere variant) or thinking of "nice guys" as manipulative or doormats. I really hope most women aren't like this, but it is an observable fact that a lot of women on POF are like this.
 _Midnight_City
Joined: 1/6/2013
Msg: 45
Nice women finish last too?
Posted: 1/11/2013 6:39:18 AM
^Dude,

People (usually) marry and date other people who are similar to themselves (looks,education, etc.)

the OP is fairly attractive, and so, she is most likely to date an attractive guy. No problem with that.
 OutMind
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 46
Nice women finish last too?
Posted: 1/11/2013 7:01:15 AM
I have preferred to date men 8-12 years older ever since 18. I have dated men close in age as well, and to be honest have ended up having better relationships with slightly older men. I am more attracted to them for many reasons, but not the point. Not "hunting" for a sugar daddy either. I tend to date based on someones heart, not their income. I don't know why so many have such an issue with age differences, and it still comes off as taboo to most. One of my longest relationships ended up being with someone older, who is now 43. My age range in my profile is 34-43, I don't really find it so shocking.


I agree with you here. My ex wife was 3 years older than me. My current gf is 12 years younger than me. And no, I didn't leave one for the other. The thing may be being an old soul. I usually do not like going out with women much younger because they are all over the place emotionally, but old souls are different. It doesn't matter what the age is, it's the demeanor, and gentility that they bring to the relationship. And what ages difference can bring to each other? Tons of things. Some women crave that maturity that some men have. Not saying that only older men are mature, but older men tend to be more mature. Also, in many other cultures that age difference is nothing new. My great grandfather married when he was 42 to an 18 year old woman. Nobody was in shock about that.

So, OP, no need to defend your choices. Sounds to me that a lot of the crybabies, that are usually complaining because they are "nice guys" and that women don't even look at them feel offended because of your choices.


the OP is fairly attractive, and so, she is most likely to date an attractive guy. No problem with that.


I am going to disagree with this statement. I've dated a ton of very attractive women. Women that also had dated very attractive men. What happens is that after a while, what each searches for is not outside, it's inside.
 rockstar_nj1182
Joined: 12/5/2012
Msg: 47
Nice women finish last too?
Posted: 1/11/2013 8:34:33 AM

Handyman018,
I have preferred to date men 8-12 years older ever since 18. I have dated men close in age as well, and to be honest have ended up having better relationships with slightly older men. I am more attracted to them for many reasons, but not the point. Not "hunting" for a sugar daddy either. I tend to date based on someones heart, not their income. I don't know why so many have such an issue with age differences, and it still comes off as taboo to most. One of my longest relationships ended up being with someone older, who is now 43. My age range in my profile is 34-43, I don't really find it so shocking.


You're not an 18 year old anymore, though. You have to look at what you bring to the table when you're shooting for a guy in his late 30s. Why should this guy want to date you? What is so much better about you than someone his age, or if he's going for younger, an 18 year old?

I don't think it's being nice that's making you finish last, it's that your preference is so self-defeating. Now, while it's possible that you'll give the chance outside of that preferred person, by specifically listing it on your profile, you're basically saying that's what you're looking for.

When it comes to sites like this, it's all about marketing yourself. You're selling yourself to that other person. You say what you're attracted to: Now pretend I'm a taller, rugged guy, I'm about 39... Tell me, why should I date you? THAT is why you're "finishing last", because at the end of the day, you're a pretty face on a website, and nothing more.
 Sciencetreker
Joined: 2/13/2012
Msg: 48
view profile
History
Nice women finish last too?
Posted: 1/11/2013 9:22:33 AM
Nothing wrong with being shy and nice, however:

This is not a reason to not make an effort to be courteuos and considerate. A shy woman can still make basic inquiries to show that she cares about another person. For example: 'In your message you said you were in the military, do you ever miss it?" etc.

What effort was that? If too much, then what effort would this shy person make in a relationship? It's good to acknowledge our strengths and weaknesses in social settings but it's not an excuse to not show empathy.
 Green_Jello44
Joined: 6/19/2011
Msg: 49
view profile
History
Nice women finish last too?
Posted: 1/11/2013 10:01:33 AM
I'm stumped, I see nothing wrong with your profile, great pics, great looking gal, nice bio, no kids, likes intimacy...thats perfect.
Even though its admirable you're a sweet nice person, you probably have the reverse problem of the nice guy, women are bored with that for whatever reasons....someone here said something about tension, its messed up but true. This will sound crazy, but b*tch up your game a bit, dress hotter, act colder, say outrageous startling things...and make a guy sit up in his chair...it generates interest and will take you out of the friendzone, best of luck.



p.s. I could tell you some real interesting things but you have an age filter, message me if you want.
 mosena87
Joined: 11/19/2012
Msg: 50
Nice women finish last too?
Posted: 1/11/2013 12:01:02 PM
BrianFromUSA, you have serious issues. It's ridiculous that you assume the OP is not a nice person due solely to her preference for "tall and rugged" men. Having preferences doesn't make someone shallow, we all have preferences. People cannot control who they are attracted to. Don't make assumptions about people you don't know.
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