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| world population is too high
Posted: 9/7/2005 5:37:52 AM | Ok......................
World Population.....When Reached?.....How Long Did It Take?
1 Billion.................about 1800..........all of human history
2 Billion................1930...................130 years
3 Billion................1960...................30 years
4 Billion................1974...................14 years
5 Billion................1987...................13 years
6 Billion................1999...................12 years
There are a lot of great thoughts in this thread. I haven't read 'em all mind you. However, looking at the above numbers brings to my mind, a glaringly obvious fact. The jump in population is directly related to medical breakthrough's. I don't see the problem as "fornication" but the elongating of human life. This is going to sound cold, harsh, cruel, and even barbaric to some. But if you think about it. It's logical. How many people would have died had Small Pox not been eradicated? How many people every day are living that would have died 300 years ago? How many people are then born to those that lived, that should have died at birth? How many people have new organs? How many have electronic devices implanted to keep them alive? Medical science has allowed the human species to make an end run around mother nature. It's no longer survival of the fittest. It's survival of everyone. And that is a very dangerous thing. People sometimes forget that, we too, are animals. And what happens to animals, say Deer, when their population reaches a critical point??? Not a happy thought, but true nonetheless. | |
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| world population is too high
Posted: 9/7/2005 5:54:21 AM | Zero Population growth, limit the amout of children being born by choice, One child per couple world wide.
Problem is the corporations hate this no one to sell to, the rich lose out. | |
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~Ames~
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Joined: 5/26/2005
Msg: 130 | |
| world population is too high
Posted: 9/7/2005 8:48:17 AM | Post NO. 25....HUISATCHEMAN.
WONDERFULLY PUT. THANKS FOR HAVING THE "BALLS" THAT SO MANY PEOPLE LACK.
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| world population is too high
Posted: 9/8/2005 6:00:07 AM | @ MI or HUISATCHEMAN
Explain to me again how immigration relates to population growth?   | |
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| world population is too high
Posted: 9/8/2005 10:29:48 AM |
How am I being pushed out? How 'bout the fact when you go to a store in Toronto you cannot even be spoken to in ENGLISH??
You're saying that every store in Toronto has no English speaking people? Wonder where they are ... I have no problem with any of the stores that I shop in - and before you say it, I go into stores owned or managed by African Americans (and I apologize if that's not the correct terminology), Koreans, Chinese, East Indians, Filipinos as well as Caucasians.
How 'bout the fact that foreigners are taking all the jobs because they will work for shit pay and leaving canadian born citizens with very little jobs?
These people (or foreigners as you call them) are taking these low-paying jobs because Canadian born citizens don't want any job that pays less that $12-15 per hour.
How 'bout the fact that every hospital is swamped with foreigners who are not even paying taxes?
How do you know these people (again, foreigners to you) aren't paying taxes? Do you go up to them while they sit in the ER and ask? And seeing that most family physicians aren't accepting new patients where do you expect these people to get medical treatment? If you look closely, most hospitals have opened a separate clinic to take care of people with non-life threatening problems so the ER's are free to handle the more serious cases.
How 'bout the fact that security is being beefed up in our metropolitan areas because of terrorist threats?
I think that most countries have beefed up security in view of the recent attacks/threats to their country.
How 'bout the fact that our lands are being torn down and housing / mosques being built like wildfire for the influx of immigrants?
Lands can only be built on when the owner sells to a developer ... who gets the money in that case? Yep, the landowner then the developer when he sells the houses. As for mosques being built like wildfire ... I think there has been 3 in the last 5 years ... 1 in Brampton, 1 in Vaughan, 1 in Etobicoke. And I presume the land it is built on was bought and paid for or mortgaged before construction began.
How bout the fact that as soon as they come here they sponge off the governement and get handed everything?
That's a bunch of bull and you know it. Granted, some escaping their countries for whatever reason are on welfare but the vast majority find employment in a very short time or have financial resources to tide them over until they get settled. Refer to those shit-paying jobs you mentioned that nobody else wants.
How 'bout the fact that these people wont even stand up for the national anthem, have had our lords prayer taken out of schools.....the list goes on and on.
We mustn't be living in the same Toronto ... I have yet to see anybody remain seated when the National Athem was played unless they were in a wheelchair or on crutches. Even then they placed their hand over their heart. As for not saying the Lords Prayer in school - think it's more to do with separating politics from religion than the influx of immigrants. | |
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| world population is too high
Posted: 9/9/2005 2:12:46 PM | | I have always lived on the sea or nearby, and when I see the dumping into the sea by the ships, the overfishing, it's only a matter of time, everything is so polluted, go to Bangkok and see overpollution, go to the asian tigers (economic countries) you think North America is bad? I think overpopulation is going to pollute us right off this planet, if the end of the world does not come first, which I think it will before the world population gets too horrendous. I don't think the earth could sustain it. | |
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| world population is too high
Posted: 9/11/2005 11:54:32 PM | Hello, all:
What so many people fail to understand is that there is a big difference between migration (or immigration/emigration as it is used for humans) and sheer population growth. Please understand that even when the world population was a small fraction of what it is now, migration was occurring regularly. So the 2 are not the same. So when you complain about people not speaking your language showing up in your country, you are complaining about immigration.
We have, of course, overpopulated ourselves into a bad spot. Habitable places, usable farmland, pollution, and economic displacement are all symptoms of overpopulation. Governments with their policies often make the problem worse. Some do nothing at all.
It will probably take a series of worsening crises, like the famine in Nigeria and elsewhere, epidemics such as bird flu, more and more wars, to get governments to address the problem, and reverse the growth. Only then will we be sufficiently moved to act.
Mind you, none of these disasters, either alone or collectively, does anything to slow population growth. Population growth rolls along like a freight train, uninterrupted. Don't expect them to slow the growth--it never has and it never will.
David | |
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| Empowering women
Posted: 9/12/2005 1:51:40 PM | Population growth is an issue that we need to address, but I believe that best happens by empowering girls and women, worldwide. Per capita resource CONSUMPTION is at least as important as population (An average person in the US consumes the same resources as 60 people in India, for example.) Distribution is a big part of this story as well.
"The Platform of Action of the Fourth World Conference on Women held in Beijing in September 1995 also called for universal access to quality health services by 2015; equal land, credit and employment access to women; the establishment of effective personal and political rights; and the education of girls and young women as the key intervention for the empowerment of women...
The level of education achieved by a woman is also strongly associated with both lower infant mortality and lower fertility. In poorer countries, where access to health care is often limited, each additional year of schooling is associated with a
5 to 10 per cent decline in child deaths. And the impact of a woman’s educational attainment on family size is second only to that of access to family planning services. In combination, high levels of education and access to family planning services translate into both lower infant mortality and lower fertility.
Rest of article (Empowering Women):
http://www.unfpa.org/6billion/populationissues/empower.htm
"Ecofeminism is a holistic way of thinking" says King, "a way of
continuously connecting issues like violence against women, military
violence, degradation of the planet. You can take any issue and see
how these relationships work together." Everything on the feminist
agenda--equal rights, quality of work, child care, reproductive
choice, and domestic violence-- is interconnected, just as the
feminist agenda is connected to the environmental agenda...
But among ecofeminism's most obvious allies, there is also serious
criticism of the movement. The ecofeminist stance on international
population control programs-- that they are tainted by racist and
coercive overtones-- puts them at odds with those environmentalists
who consider curbing world population an urgent priority...
In Brazil, ecofeminism began to take shape in 1984 as people
protested against the testing of experimental contraceptive drugs on
poor women. Thais Corral, a journalist for Interpress Service in Rio
de Janeiro, told The Amicus Journal that women quickly made the
connections between this incident and other forms of ecological
manipulation that also affect women and children, such as
bio-technology and the use of chemicals in agriculture. "Women
living in the country knew how to control their fertility", says
Corral. When they had to move to the city, "they lost that
knowledge." Now, the right wing want to control poor woman's
childbearing choices instead of dealing with the wider reasons for
environmental collapse, such as destructive development, she
believes. "
Rest of article (The Goddess Revived, The Rise of Ecofeminism):
http://www.holysmoke.org/fem/fem0095.htm | |
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| Empowering women
Posted: 9/12/2005 6:57:14 PM | Good Points Ali Kat "People sometimes forget that, we too, are animals. And what happens to animals, say Deer, when their population reaches a critical point??? Not a happy thought, but true nonetheless."
But let me point out that two things concerning the deer population.
1) Deer do not create as many off spring in a dry year. They control their own population with their limited knowledge.
People make babies too as long as someone else foots the bill. I've read that the number of children a given woman has is in direct proportion to her education level (or lack of) or financial level.
2) Deer population is also assisted by man. Doe tags, Buck tags are issued in direct proportion to the current deer count.
Yes we are animals, and supposedly the most intelligent. Obviously lacking in certain respects. | |
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| Empowering women
Posted: 9/12/2005 8:01:34 PM | We must be careful when we try to apply ecology to human beings. Of course human beings are animals and part of ecology (though, for a long time we've been taught otherwise). However, there have been many instances where an ecological 'theory' (observation interpreted through the theorist's lens) was transformed into an absurd 'therefore.' Darwin, for example, observed. He made profound observations. He interpreted what he observed. He thought survival of the 'fittest.' That theory was later turned into an economic/social ‘fittest.’ THAT IS A PROBLEM. That *application* has nothing to do with God or ecology, just greed trying to usurp legitimate ecological discussion for economic greed.
In terms of Darwin…evolution is change through time. I don’t think Darwin had the mechanism right, but he got closer than many (though others said same, but he got credit… much like double helix… anyway) | |
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| Empowering women
Posted: 9/12/2005 8:02:04 PM | Hey, Dharma:
Your post on empowering women is very good. Maybe some progress can be made on the issue after 2008. Only 13 years after the gathering that produced the plan to empower women.
To others here:
Please don't be deluded into thinking that natural disasters, wars, etc., will help control world population. First, it simply does not, and you won't want to watch. A few thousand live evacuees in Louisiana will be nothing compared to millions of dead people. And if you by some chance were part of those millions, how would you feel? Cold comfort.
David | |
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yna6
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Joined: 5/2/2004
Msg: 141 | |
| world population is too high
Posted: 9/13/2005 12:11:27 AM | Hmmm...wonder what would happen if raising children in the city became limited to ONE child per couple? Want a family? Fine....go outside the cities and live there to raise them. Watch the population disperse itself, along with the ensuing rush of jobs in the rural areas, not to mention the boom in housing.
Even in the country, a large family is no longer such a great idea. At one time, the kids were expected to help out on the farm, and large families were the norm. Now, one or two kids only...can't afford any more. | |
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| world population is too high
Posted: 9/13/2005 12:51:07 AM | WHAT IF...
Long ago, (hu)man beings depended on thousands of varieties of food crops. Within the last few decades, a few agricultural conglomerates have tried to take over the major food crops, for profit. Mostly, now, we depend on less that an handful of types of crops to feed all.--many, now, GMO. PREDICTION!!!!! GMO ag (that will kill humanity) will be wiped OUT! Bad idea. Don't invest in that. Grow your food or BUY ORGANIC, if you can. | |
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| world population is too high
Posted: 9/13/2005 1:06:56 AM | Clarification: I believe nature will wipe out GMO (cuz no matter how you look at that, this is deadly--though profitable in short term--for some people). Not good for her. Not good for people and humanity in general. RACIST. DEADLY. They know what they are doing. When there is no option but what they offer, they can charge what they want for food. F you, say I. I believe God will destory the market before anything like that can happen (and I tend to have a long term view...)
Plan now, agribusiness, cus you are NOT smarter than nature. (GMO Corn is going to be gone... maybe get Shiva as an advisor if you want to exist, at all.)
CHENEY, rethink your life and actions...
Peace. | |
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| world population is too high
Posted: 9/13/2005 10:55:47 AM | who gets to choose who lives and who dies?
How many people every day are living that would have died 300 years ago
i think there are none alive today that would have dies 300 years ago...lol..they all did die 300 years ago :laugh: | |
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| world population is too high
Posted: 9/13/2005 11:32:04 AM | i think that the posters here who cannot learn to properly live with others who are different from themselves should just off themselves. before doing so, however, spread the word to your like minded friends and family. i mean really, we've been taught to get along with others and share since kindergarten and if that simple concept is too much for you to grasp your immediate resignation from the human race is greatly appreciated.
the earth is getting smaller and smaller every day. i think it's a good thing. | |
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| world population is too high
Posted: 9/14/2005 1:22:32 PM | Good point ^^^^^^, SI. However, it won't do anything to ease the overpopulation, despite the huge numbers! Just kidding, I know that's not what you said.. Truth is the zenophobia and intolerance you point out is a big part of the over population problem. Prevents any kind of cohesive workable plan to deal with it.
David | |
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| world population is too high
Posted: 9/14/2005 3:41:24 PM | All:
Dryad made a great statment in msg 119 that should be repeated until it is grasped and understood by everyone.
Let’s put it this way, all the fatalities of the all World War II (about 32million), would be replaced in 89 days (at 2001 world population growth rates).
This is extremely important, and maybe it will end some of the passive, subtly racist beliefs here. Please take this rough comparison and apply it to any other act of war or natural catastrophe, and you will quickly see these phenonmena have NO capacity to reduce population growth. Just such a sublimely banal suggestion has been made, that Katrina helped cut population growth. There have been ~500 deaths reported. Some big U.S. cities have that many births in one night! Even if, as was thought last week, the death rate was magnitudes higher, it doesn't make a difference. As far as racism goes, the notion that destitute cultures and populations in other countries are the ones to sacrifice for our overconsumption is sheer unmitigated arrogance, reinforced by ignorance.
We need rational informed policy to curb and reverse worldwide population growth, or as someone said, the lives of people in the future will be 'brutish, ugly, and short'. Please think about it.
David | |
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| Africans Challenge Bush Claim that GM Food Good for Them
Posted: 9/14/2005 7:56:03 PM |
”Genetic Engineering (GE) will not solve the problem of hunger”
Instead of alleviating hunger, he added, GM crops pose potential dangers--a view that is also supported by a number of other African activists and non-governmental organizations (NGOs).
GM opponents fear that the technology, which manipulates the genetic code of the seed to give it desired characteristics--such as faster growing times or resistance to pests--will destroy the model of production and consumption that sustains more than 70 percent of the farmers in Africa. GM technology, they say, promotes monoculture and seeks to eliminate all possible competition from non-GM crops.
The Bush administration is not straightforward. It is not poverty in Africa that is the most important issue for the administration but business considerations on behalf of the U.S. technology and agricultural sector,” Lori Wallach, director of Public Citizen's global trade watch said Tuesday.
”We do not believe that agro-companies or gene technologies will help our farmers to produce the food that is needed in the 21st century,'' said the Southern African Catholic Bishops Conference in a statement. ''On the contrary, we think it will destroy the diversity, the local knowledge and the sustainable agricultural systems that our farmers have developed for millennia and that it will thus undermine our capacity to feed ourselves.”
Rest of article at:
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0620-07.htm
Einstein said, "Problems cannot be solved with the same level of thinking that created them."
I think he is a genius :) | |
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