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| Is a Relationship better than In Love?
Posted: 8/4/2005 9:55:40 PM | | If you people really want to get to KNOW Doc....Check out page 18 in Relationships...Thread title `Women control all Social Interaction and Complain`....That is for starters...You will get to know him well....Then I will name another threads for you to read...I have a huge list of them and their page numbers so you can see whom you are replying .... | |
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| Is a Relationship better than In Love?
Posted: 8/5/2005 9:10:37 AM | Love is love is love...Romantic love is merely meant to be an "offshoot" of lust for a friend...and seems to have gotten lost in the "translation" over the years...
As for the women in China giving birth in the fields and then going back to work...How many of those women live alone? Raising families on their own without a male presence in the household...That is also a modern society that relies on cultivation rather than hunting for sustenance, that is being used as an example.
Earlier societies or groups of homo Sapiens were hunter/gatherers, NOT farmers...Check your facts.
And as I understand the discussion we were talking about Homo sapiens in your words, "not caring who he was doing the nasty with"? Yes, before structured society was developed, there was a lot of indiscriminate mating, certainly...But those groups of humans lived as communities where things like the gathering of food and the raising of children were communal activities.
Women in China in this (or last millenium), are NOT the same as females in the original nomadic societies of Homo Sapiens...
Pair bonding , if you will, was something that was done for the survival of the species as well as for the greater good of the society once the understanding of conception and parental contribution was introduced...And the idea of lineage, and trade became more predominant. This was the precursor to the nuclear family as we know it today,.
More formal unions, as somebody else said, were then introduced when the concept of property became more relevant. And yes, they were introduced by men as a means of attaining property, cementing familial allegiances, etc...Kind of ironic in light of all of the talk of "marriage strikes" by men in today's society...when the "payoff" for marriage is far less than the potential "cost".
Wouldn't it be nice if we could all take responsibility for our own actions, and just act upon what we ourselves want by finding like-minded peopl? Instead of desperately trying to live up to an "ideal" that was never meant to be anything more than an amusing diversion?
Here's a thought...Maybe the problem is that we don't understand that a "good relationship" is really just the same thing as having a best friend that you can also have sex with!! So let's all hear it for "sexy friends"!!! CR | |
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| Is a Relationship better than In Love?
Posted: 8/5/2005 11:25:32 AM | CR,
Well reasoned. A couple fo things, though. My point about the Chinese women - and "The Good Earth" - was to show that even after humans evolved from homo sapien to homo sapien-sapien and into an agrarian culture, women did indeed fend for themselves and protect their children even when pregnant. Please, read the book, or at least the Cliff's Notes.
Kind of ironic in light of all of the talk of "marriage strikes" by men in today's society...when the "payoff" for marriage is far less than the potential "cost".
I disagree. Today's man stands to lose much more than he could ever gain through marriage. When you consider that the marriage is more likely to fail, the woman is more than two times as likely to file for the divorce and he is going to be nailed for an average of 40% of his paycheck in support payments, the risk far outweighs the potential rewards. | |
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| Is a Relationship better than In Love?
Posted: 8/5/2005 1:20:55 PM | Hmmm....I think that's what I said Yamihere...read it again....  As for Chinese women protecting themselves and their children, well, that's a far too culture-specific example, outside of the time frame that I'm discussing here...
The behavior of the women in one culture is not illustrative of all women's behavior, nor is it a generalized enough example of early societies' motivating factors for more permanent pair-bonding. There are women throughout time who have shown remarkable powers of survival, and have fiercely protected and guarded "their own" from potential harm...
My point is that a single-parent family has proven to be inadequate (more often than not, unfortunately)in raising well-balanced children, time and again, and in the early day's of human beings, survival was the goal, of the individual and it's progeny, which, as societies evolved, went from being a communal activity, to one largely undertaken by a "nuclear unit", often still found within a larger community.
The reason was simple...Having a man around when you were pregnant and about to give birth, who could hunt for the food that you needed to survive, was quite useful. For men, the trade-off was more immediate...Companionship as they willed, without the need to constantly compete, ( and possibly lose!), sexual release, and a division of labor designed to free him up for his "purpose" as provider....
As we moved towards the agrarian society, it became more a matter of property=power and control, and if women no longer needed men to hunt, and could sustain themselves and their offspring with what was gathered instead, then men would soon lose what power they did have, to women who began to cultivate crops.
It was women, by the way, who were the first "farmers"!! So it was around about then, that marriage came into being,...It gave men back a measure of control that they were slowly losing, and it gave women a greater sense of security, in the way of division of labor.
I'm sure that Ms. Buck has written an enlightening book, and I will look into it, if only due to your enthusiastic endorsement! Thank you! CR | |
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| Is a Relationship better than In Love?
Posted: 8/5/2005 5:00:35 PM | CR,
Sorry, I read your comment incorrectly the first time.
On our ongoning topic, I want to move on to some other examples. In many cultures, men frequently took on more than one wife. In almost all other cultures, including those of european roots, men had one wife but several mistresses. These men had a wife, or wives, as status symbols. It had nothing to do with romantic love. Most marriages in the course of human history were utilitarian and arranged. All these things are true, yet romantic love isn't a concept that was created by humans? Sorry, have to disagree, and the course of human history makes it quite clear. Even into the early ... even the mid ... 20th century, marriage, on a large scale, was for utilitarian purposes. What kept them together was a common need for one another - not this bogus concept of romantic love. I hypothesize, that the reason the institute of marriage is now in such a haggered condition is because, in the absence of any other good reason to get married, society has us believing that love is all you need. It was only during the 20th century that life for the masses in the North America and Europe became more about enjoyment than a struggle for survival. Because the concept of romantic love is as phony as monopoly money, trying to bond two people together based on an easily-deteriorated ideal is much less effective than bonding them based on actual need.
My grandmother and grandfather had an arranged marriage. They hated one another ... and I do mean, hated. When they spoke it was only to curse at one another in Slovak. But they stayed married. Why? They needed each other for survival. Man and woman no longer have this need. | |
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| Is a Relationship better than In Love?
Posted: 1/5/2007 4:14:54 PM | Member Poll
Q: Would you marry someone lower in social rank, but had great spiritual values?
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No, education and social levels are important for a successful marriage
13.6%
Yes, spiritual values are the most important
76.9%
I'm one on the lower social rank, and my spouse must be able to elevate me
0.5%
I'm on the lower social rank and will watch this poll with interest
9.0%
Total Votes: 199
Analysis by Gender
No, education and social levels are important for a successful marriage (total votes: 27)
Female 63.0%
Male 37.0%
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Yes, spiritual values are the most important (total votes: 53)
Female 47.7%
Male 52.3%
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I'm one on the lower social rank, and my spouse must be able to elevate me (total votes: 100)
Female 100.0%
Male 0.0%
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I'm on the lower social rank and will watch this poll with interest (total votes: 18)
Female 27.8%
Male 72.2%
Nuff said. | |
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| Is a Relationship better than In Love?
Posted: 1/5/2007 4:41:35 PM | Doc.... you're just making it too complicated. Personally, I don't know how that's possible - being career military and all.
Just don't start talking in acronyms.
Nice bike.... little small, but nice nonetheless.
-IPB | |
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| Is a Relationship better than In Love?
Posted: 2/11/2007 10:09:35 AM | Love is a relationship. You cannot have one without the other.
~Mea Culpa~
My parents met at the church where they grew up together. They just knew that they would be together. The same happend for my grandparents on my father's side. My mother's mother was not so fortunate. She married my grandfather out of love but ended up raising my mother and her brothers alone. I believe people stay married because of their love for one another, likemindedness, and they are determined to make things work because they love each other, accepting each other for who they are. Now, in this day and age, people have become desensitized, going into marriage thinking if it doesn't work out the way they want then they can divorce and find someone else. For me it was that I wanted to endure but the reprocussions were stacked against me. I married both times to men who were not at all likeminded.
~Ssinjin~
Posted By: doctorkinseyphd on 8/4/2005 1:00:05 PM
Subject: Is a Relationship better than In Love?
Message: All of the discussions are filled with labels and scoring lists. Yet, it all seems targeted for finding/developing a "Relationship". Has Relationship become just another eremitic term for "In Love"? Did'nt people just 'fall' in love? Now there seems to be scales, measures, lists, pros/cons and other social 'exam' paraphernalia...How did couples who were married YEARS ago, and are still together, ever persevere without all the feminist introspection now required...[/Quote] | |
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