|
|
|
|
|
| gun control in the usa
Posted: 4/9/2009 10:28:22 PM |
Here's where I may be a bit naive. So maybe someone can help me out. But I don't understand why a government would want to curtail the rights of individual Americans just for the sake of doing so. We have a great standard of living, even now, we produce huge profits for investors, even now, and when military force is needed elsewhere, we pony up the taxes and the volunteers. What more could a government want?
To reduce the number of you shooting each other. | |
|
| gun control in the usa
Posted: 4/10/2009 7:31:21 AM | Hmm? ~ Where are we going as a nation of people?
Under a capitalist democracy? expanded into the future ~ while looking back at past history?
If left unbridled ~ where, America's business is "business" ~ with no temperance for the graces of life, no respect for any~ save the most elite? ~ The brightest stars, only the pretties songs and that being determined by pure demand? Packaging determining the demand.
Packaging will rule and whoever controls packaging for the masses will control our future.
We enter strange times, with mass media and clever packaging.
People are rules by both fear and consensus, rewards and penalties.
The last 8 years has shown us how a whole country can be lead astray and events in the late 30's and early 40's in Germany might be repeated. Packaging~ It was sold to the people as "good" and righteous.
and enough people believed it , finding themselves vested in a "system" ~ as some of us stood by in fear and horror at what we heard and seen taking place.
It only requires good men & women to do nothing. I watched, as some of by best friends skipped down the yellow brick road in lock step with mind control packaging and scoffed at my protest. ~
Why? ~~ because they was doing well, they had a long time vested interest in "the" system that had brought them to this point in their lives and was quit comfortable. ~ at 50 and 60 ~ someone rocking your boat is not appreciated.
Having the final 20 years of your life to be disrupted ~ by malcontents and civil unrest was never in the plan. ~ The screams of your neighbors suffering goes unheard ~ for it's "good" at your house. ~ These people are just not smart like I, ~ I worked hard and I prepared for my future, I invested! ~ I am deserving ~~ I just have a few more years ~ don't take from me ~ I support my government and believe what they tell me, I believe in American and what it stands for. ~ Work hard ~ behave responsibility and the rewards shall be yours.
I do, I did! ~ they didn't!
They say ~ the best way to catch a monkey is to make a small keep ~ with openings just big enough so he can see and reach inside to grab something shinny. ~ The opening too small to remove the shinny object ~ the monkey is caught by his desire to "have" and will not let go.
and so it is with man, he won't let go! holding on to his dreams of having his rewards.
A gun ~ to defend his dreams a final option , not out of the question if he feels under attack.
It's as simple as trying to take a dogs bone away ~ your are depending on his consensus and your position of "master" to not be bitten.
I've lost some friends ~ and will lose more before I'm through. ~ Admitting your were wrong ~ when you don't feel wrong ~ is next to impossible.
Dance | |
|
| gun control in the usa
Posted: 4/10/2009 5:51:38 PM | The last 8 years has shown us how a whole country can be lead astray and events in the late 30's and early 40's in Germany might be repeated. Packaging~ It was sold to the people as "good" and righteous.
and enough people believed it , finding themselves vested in a "system" ~ as some of us stood by in fear and horror at what we heard and seen taking place.
Up to a point. Only up to a point. The last election demonstrated that.
I remember serving on a jury a while back. The lawyers were idiots. The procedure was illogical from a juror's standpoint. The judges weren't much better than the lawyers. However, the jurors were able to assemble a coherent picture of the events and come to some very astute conclusions despite it all. I felt very good about the decision that we reached.
If the worst that happens to us as a people is that we continue to get whip-sawed between two competing ideologies, we won't be going down the path to totalitarianism very far--either the totalitarianism of the military-industrial complex or the totalitarianism of the welfare state.
I trust responsible, law-abiding citizens. Even though they can seem to be in the minority at times, they are a significant presence to be reckoned with. | |
|
| gun control in the usa
Posted: 4/10/2009 6:00:45 PM | complete agreement Ace of Space
the system given to us by our forefathers righted it's self. None to soon!
But a lot of damage has been done. It's take 10 -15 years to recover and the truth is ~ life is like a chess move ~
One lost move ~ can cost you dearly ~ You must play flawlessly and count on your opponent to make a foolish move to ever catch up.
Dance | |
|
| gun control in the usa
Posted: 4/10/2009 6:37:40 PM | Exactly, Dancecard.
That is why I get so fed up with the people who buy those stupid slogans. But to be quite honest with you, I get even more fed up with the people who sell them.
I think that some folks in this thread and others like it would do well to watch 12 Angry Men a few dozen times more until they get it. A well-informed citizen who thinks for himself is far more powerful than any zealot with a gun.
That, more than anything else, is what the Founders were counting on. | |
|
| gun control in the usa
Posted: 4/10/2009 9:36:20 PM | well , someone said ,"The pen is mighty' er then the sword"
but what we seem to be experiencing is " which twisted truth hits the news cycle first.
Like this GOP tea party thingy ~" a symbolic gesture , as per. ~~~~~~~~~~~"Taxation without Representation"
Which was the original slogan. ~ Now how this can be misconscrewed and applied to what happening today requires a long reach, ~ a connect the dots test! Not unlike the aluminum tubes and nuclear weapons connect the dots reasoning test that most of us are familar with by now.
first; there is no tax increase that's not been expected ~ for it was truly a temporary decrease in Taxes ~ for higher income brackets , subject to lapping at this point in time and revert to it original rate. ~~ So there is some question as to where it's truly an increase at all, but more of a Tax discount being withdrawn as per mandate. As I understand, the administration really had little to do with it, but it did however serve the administration economic program as it's be explained to all.
second; There was political representation in effect, there were time limits yet representation failed to act prior to President Bush's departure.
third; I truly doubt that these top earner are out in the street themselves, tea bag in hand, protesting about this increase ~ but more then likely ~ someone that's not making $100,000.00 a year or much , much less ( I'd guess maybe 35,000) is "protesting for them by proxy". People worried about wealthy people , thinking that maybe they can't take care of themselves ~~ which I find personally very odd. ~
So as you say, Ace of Space ~ another three word slogan gone a foul, to rally the faithful.
You hear the latest dentist slogan? ~ "Drill baby Drill" OUCH!
Dance | |
|
| gun control in the usa
Posted: 4/11/2009 7:13:41 PM |
third; I truly doubt that these top earner are out in the street themselves, tea bag in hand, protesting about this increase ~ but more then likely ~ someone that's not making $100,000.00 a year or much , much less ( I'd guess maybe 35,000) is "protesting for them by proxy". People worried about wealthy people , thinking that maybe they can't take care of themselves ~~ which I find personally very odd. ~
Well, when you tax the rich you screw with people's aspirations to become rich themselves. It appears that if the rich get taxed, it would make it that much harder for someone to _get_ rich. And of course, we're all going to get rich because we all have equal access to opportunity, right? And if a particular individual isn't rich yet, it is because of some personal failing on the part of that individual. Right? The system that includes significant barriers to entry for the businesses that accumulate surpluses at the fastest rate--because those businesses require tremendous capital investment--has nothing to do with it. Not a thing.
But we digress. The question in this forum is whether or not citizens in general are responsible enough to manage guns without governmental monitoring and regulation. I believe that many are. However, I also believe that with training the proportion goes way up. Without training, how can we be sure that a prospective gun owner understands what the responsibilities even are? | |
|
| gun control in the usa
Posted: 4/11/2009 9:13:19 PM |
Well, when you tax the rich you screw with people's aspirations to become rich themselves. It appears that if the rich get taxed, it would make it that much harder for someone to _get_ rich. And of course, we're all going to get rich because we all have equal access to opportunity, right?
Wrong ~ we are all taxed ~ any tax at all screws with aspirations ~ wealthy or otherwise.
There is a base line of income one might consider ~
if one made say $10,000.00 per years ~ and lived without any other assistance and paid $1800.00 in taxes while living under a bridge would that affect ones aspiration?
The point I make ~ is one ~ a base line of income has been achieved only then is it true income in one sense. ~ One consideration of one might live in a cardboard box ~ or have 6 homes. ~ what are true excesses? ~ regarding of how much someone makes, ~ there can be made a need for it. Instead of $5000.00 cars to drive ~ we can drive ~ $45000,00. cars.
Instead of one wife and family ~ we can have one and 3 on the side. ~ ~ There is no end for the places to spent money. There is never enough money!
There has been a disparity that has grown in the last 20 years between the extreme top and bottom. ~ In my eyes this disparity is too extreme. ~ Especially when these top earners fail to take responsibility for failure and wish to pass the buck. ~requiring Federal assistance
On the other hand if it 'was" their money at risk and they accepted the responsibility for failure there would be some argument for this huge disparity.
and what has this got to do with gun? ~
This disparity creates a deep seated anger ~ that festers in the hearts and souls of people.
As we struggle to make ends met ~ the needy angers us ~ the Mexican, angers us.
as Glenn Beck himself stated on National Television, ~ after a while ~ the survivor's and family's of 9-11 angered him, ~ feeling much had been done for them yet their suffering continued to dominated the news.
This HUGE disparity brings on ~ only despair ~ and despair is contagious.
To ask that this disparity to be address ~ is not an unreasonable request.
The Government ask for more gun and ordinance control ~ feeling it not unreasonable.
So, ~ are both issues worthy of redress? or just one of them?
Dance | |
|
| gun control in the usa
Posted: 4/11/2009 11:55:15 PM | Despair as a motivation for misusing a gun is something we need to consider. However, I'm not sure that it is possible to legislate away the risk. Once someone has chosen violence, the only way to stop innocents from being killed might be to put that person down. Not a great option as it's a permanent solution to a temporary problem, but a person's despair is her or his own problem. They can choose to get help, or choose to do harm. But if they don't understand the risks and consequences of doing harm with a gun, what's to stop them (aside from the authorities or other citizens shooting back)?
What might prevent at least some of them from taking that harmless seeming gun and committting mayhem with it would be some training and exposure to the misery of loved ones--especially for those who are related to or close to a shooter. | |
|
| gun control in the usa
Posted: 4/12/2009 7:26:01 AM | Despair as a motivation for misusing a gun is something we need to consider. However, I'm not sure that it is possible to legislate away the risk. Once someone has chosen violence, the only way to stop innocents from being killed might be to put that person down. Not a great option as it's a permanent solution to a temporary problem, but a person's despair is her or his own problem.
Complete agreement ~ The gun problem can't be legislated away but only suppressed
but the seeds for much of this despair can. ~
As far as it being their "own" problem ~ they can make it yours, I can't help it if you down river from me ~ if I wish to pee in the river ~ that's my right! But if you can convince me that it's not in my best interest ~ only then will I make other arrangement to dispose of my bladder fluids.
So why not "more fairness" ~ leveler playing fields.
The wealthy have little interest in giving away money. It's not an easy thing to do ~ the libilities are high, they open themselves up to being sues by people that might take advantage, ~ requiring the wealthy to hire a staff of attorneys to create "trusts" .
The Government fears an armed population ~and rightfully so ~ they need too fear !
For they rule by consent. ~
However, if they can disarm us ~ they will no longer require our consent, the balance of power will shift.
I know ~ we don't enjoy thinking of such things, thinking somehow we might be above such notions.
That's what government might wish you to think, luring people in to "trust" in some notion of government benev0lence.
History tells us ~ that's just not the case ~ again and again.
The balance of power is a delicate one. ~ We was under constant attack with legislation under the gaze of " for our own good".
This is where the GOP seems to rally many of the faithful, with these 2nd amendment issues, while enjoying support from the NRA and the like.
What we as American's must watch for ~ is "mislabeling" and word play with such legislation and hold true to the spirit of the 2nd amendment.
Dance | |
|
| gun control in the usa
Posted: 4/12/2009 7:49:31 AM |
This is where the GOP seems to rally many of the faithful, with these 2nd amendment issues, while enjoying support from the NRA and the like.
What we as American's must watch for ~ is "mislabeling" and word play with such legislation and hold true to the spirit of the 2nd amendment.
All the more reason to rail against "feel good" slogans that mask the hard truths. Responsible adults don't fall for crap like that. | |
|
| gun control in the usa
Posted: 4/12/2009 8:22:18 AM | Responsible adults don't fall for crap like that.
correct a mundo! ~ The problem is ~ these politician's are very crafty!
They are educated, attorneys for the most part ~ educated in rules of law and word. ~
Bubba with green teeth is out of his league with this bunch and their crafty ways ~ depending on the likes of Rush, O"Really and"Fox Noise" to explain it to them.
Using the Christian faith and 2nd amendment as a platform to launch attacks on the left.
A divide and conquer approach that's been working quit well ~ the primary reason for their existence.
I'm not sure which one's to fear most ~ the Right or the Left! as the system in place works for balance and Administration's seeks ways to circumvent the "system" The last administration having "much" luck at this ~ with Carl Rowe and D ck Chaney behind the curtain pulling on levers of disinformation assisted with Rupert Murdoch platform(s).
It taxes me at times ~ to stay abreast of the "facts" ~ but at least I have some notion of who my true enemies are. ~
And you are so right ~ people need to wake up ~ " three word slogan" don't address issues but is only a rallying cry! ~ a call to arms! ~ asking you to, ~ not think about it ~ but just "Join Us!"
Dance | |
|
| gun control in the usa
Posted: 4/12/2009 2:37:42 PM | People forget what happened after the '68 law...groups like the Hell's Angels started carrying Ball Peen Hammers. For over a decade more biker-gang killings were made with those than guns because they could be caried openly...they weren't classified as a weapon...and the average biker was a LOT stronger than the ordinary citizen.
Gun laws don't really DO anything to stop people from killing each other...it just forces them to find more bloody ways of doing it. Great example...the recent beheading on a Canadian Greyhound bus.
Lock up the nutcases. Criminalize insanity. Don't let them out of the funny farms until they are CURED. Solve the problem before they kill.
And IF they kill, take the nuts directly to the Guilliotine. No appeal. | |
|
| gun control in the usa
Posted: 4/12/2009 9:44:05 PM | How many Cops were killed with Ball Peen Hammers?
Were 30 people killed in 3-4 hours?
Lock up the nutcases???? .........
The NRA wrote the 2004 law to allow Nutcase ownership of guns..
There is no nutcase wording in the 2nd Amendment.
Or Criminals inablity to own guns.............
thats in the '68 law.
Do you have a link for all the 1% ers use of the Ball Peen? | |
|
| gun control in the usa
Posted: 4/12/2009 10:34:52 PM |
Gun laws don't really DO anything to stop people from killing each other...it just forces them to find more bloody ways of doing it. Great example...the recent beheading on a Canadian Greyhound bus.
Nobody is claiming that the reduction in the number of firearms prevents murder entirely. You're indulging in a straw man.
If that same man had used a gun he could easily have shot a half dozen people on the bus. | |
|
| gun control in the usa
Posted: 4/12/2009 10:39:45 PM | I have the funny feeling that he would have emptied the entire magazine into his victim...and still cut off his head. The initial interrogation with the man is disturbing, to say the least. Kind of reminds me of Dahmer.
Ball peen hammer use among is quite well documented, just not so much online...but I'd rather you looked it up yourself, along with the Vegas battles that caused quite a few deaths via hammer. Take a trip to Vegas :D they need the revenue ;)
And one other small item...if the crew of the Maerska Alabama had have ben armed, either by having a weapons locker from the company or personal weapons (as was done in the 80's-early 90's)...do you think the pirates would have gotten on board the ship?? | |
|
| gun control in the usa
Posted: 4/12/2009 11:43:56 PM | .
I thought the weapon of mass Murder used by bikers was the primary chain, belt............
However ...........Harley Davidson went to belt drives...........
It was the Belt primary drive and Not the 1968 gun law that drove (Rode) bikers to Guns........
Many links for this can be found on line... I would prefer you look them up.........
 | |
|
| gun control in the usa
Posted: 4/13/2009 9:08:25 AM |
if the crew of the Maerska Alabama had have ben armed, either by having a weapons locker from the company or personal weapons (as was done in the 80's-early 90's)...do you think the pirates would have gotten on board the ship??
At the risk of being utterly tedious, I have to point out that if the crew wasn't trained properly, the guns wouldn't do them much good. I'd give the pirates the edge over an armed but untrained crew. | |
|
| gun control in the usa
Posted: 4/13/2009 10:49:33 AM | I find it odd that merchant vessels are not permitted weapons. ~
No firearms, no booze and no drugs. ~
So if you are abiding by the rules ~ you have no weapons to defend yourself ~ left only with maneuvering the vessel, hand tools , chains , galley cooking equiptment, radio and flare guns.
I always thought this odd ~ but I understand ~ the mutiny aspects of it ~ having been on a vessel at sea for weeks with undesirables before. ~ Things gets tense at times between the crew. ~ I found myself glad no weapons were aboard and left with just hand tool and witts to defend myself against fellow crewmen.
Today ~ many employer's ~ do very little screening of their seaman ~ picking and choosing from sorted riff-ratt and bulge rats that sign up for a tour of duty.
The profession was destroyed under the Regan administration ~ Seaman once enjoyed Full medical care, the tab being picked up by the Fed. ~ The reason being ~ the job is important to the nation ~ and much work goes on all around the coastline of our nation. ~ It's long hours ~ 15 to 18 a day most often ~ sleeping done in 3 and 4 hours intervals .
~ The job requires "Worthy" seamen ~ leaving shore "Worthy" being a big part of the job.
~ Seaman took a big ~ GOP hit ~ and has never been confiscated for by many employer's since. ~~ Just another example of "Let's get the Federal Government off the people's backs" ~ and what it really meant to ~ the working man. ~ The profession becoming less desirable ~ so now, it's full of riff-raff and under skills, less professional people.
Can't afford to give them a gun to protect themselves , they will kill each other.
Dance | |
|
| gun control in the usa
Posted: 4/13/2009 2:32:22 PM | Can't afford to give them a gun to protect themselves , they will kill each other.
We have to be careful to make sure that all of our children are well educated. Otherwise, this is what those in power will be saying about them.
There is a lot more to preventing a ban on guns than just mouthing a foolish slogan or trying to out-bully those who call for one. | |
|
| gun control in the usa
Posted: 4/13/2009 10:44:45 PM | I've seen the Somali's shoot. They aren't trained at ALL. They don't even take the time to AIM those AK's, they just point them in the general direction of what they want to shoot, pull the trigger & watch where the bullets hit, then spray some more...crudely effective, but even Air Force-trained folks (ONE day of training at Boot) could outshoot the vast majority of 'em.
That's why they weren't worried about the Bainbridge being 200 yds away...they thought they were out of range...their mistake ;)
I can take someone who has never picked up a gun before in their LIVES, and turn them into a decent shooter in a WEEKEND. Given a week I can turn them into seriously accurate shooters at up to 500 yards...all they have to do is practice regularly after that. It is NOT difficult. Weapon, Target, Range, Wind, & Slope are the basics...everything else is just practice.
Getting every seaman willing to train up to a standard wouldn't take long. Heck, half of 'em probably own better guns than the shipping line could provide. :)
Many ships are also from countries OTHER than the US, which means they have to stick to the rules of whatever country's flag they are flying...most US cargo ships do have weapons lockers...they are, however, rarely used or even filled if the ship came from California. | |
|
| gun control in the usa
Posted: 4/13/2009 11:46:12 PM |
u dont have a right to bare arms!!!
I knew it would happen... they've outlawed short sleeves. | |
|
| gun control in the usa
Posted: 4/14/2009 12:11:53 AM | Heck, here's a nationwide program that anyone can attend...and learn from. It's held at gun ranges all over the USA on a regular basis...it's called the Appleseed Program. At my local favorite range, It's held every four months.
-----------------------------
What the RWVA (Revolutionary War Veterans Association) is all about:
The Appleseed Program is designed to take you from being a simple rifle owner
to being a true rifleman. All throughout American history, the rifleman has been
defined as a marksman capable of hitting a man-sized target from 500 yards
away — no ifs, ands or buts about it. This 500-yard range is traditionally known
as "the rifleman's quarter-mile;" a rifleman can hit just about any target he can
see. This skill was particulary evident in the birth of our country, and was the
difference in winning the Revolutionary War.
So why me?
This country was founded and won by riflemen who fought and beat British
forces. We invite all interested marksmen to learn the skills and techniques
necessary to shoot proficiently; and then hope you'll participate in teaching and
practicing with others so that together we can save this great land. Why you?
Well, that's simple: if you're on this page we're betting you're a patriot, and we
hope you answer the call.
What's a rifleman?
In short, a rifleman is an armed American, trained in the tradition of American
Liberty. It's a person who has learned to shoot a rifle accurately — accurate enough
to score "expert" on the Army Qualification Course.
Until you can do that, you're considered a "Cook,"  unprepared and unqualified to carry a rifle on the firing line of freedom. But after attending an Appleseed AQT shoot, you'll have the credentials necessary to be a true rifleman, and will understand the critical need for defending freedom in this country.
-------------------------------------------
As I've always said, training is ALWAYS available for anyone who wishes it. If you can legally own a gun, you can train as much as you want, as often as you want...all you have to do is contact your local range & get INVOLVED!!
Join the IDPA or IPSC for Tactical Training...hone your defensive skills to a fine point!!
 | |
|
| gun control in the usa
Posted: 4/14/2009 12:29:59 AM | The answer is to give everyone a gun?
Training a Police force to shoot is very important.........
Much more training than a Seaman or Joe Or Jane Average with a permit..........
12-1-2006
police fired 50 shots at and into three unarmed black men in their car outside a Jamaica strip club at 4 a.m. Killed this time was 23-year-old Sean Bell. It was Bell's wedding day, but there's no good day to die.
Bell's two companions were wounded.
The car took 21 hits. Just where the other 29 bullets ended up is anyone's guess.
November 25, outside the Kalua Cabaret in Jamaica, Queens, Detective Mike Oliver squeezed the trigger of his police-issue 9mm pistol in the line of duty for the first time in his 12 years on the force. He squeezed again and again and again until he had fired all 16 shots in the weapon. Then he pushed the extractor button with his thumb, popping out the empty clip, and with his left hand he slapped a 15-round clip up through the hollow handle. He fired and fired until the gun was emptied again—31 shots in 10 to 15 seconds, tops. And he wasn't the only cop firing.
When a supervisor later asked Oliver about the shooting, Oliver was unsure whether he had fired any shots at al
Most cops only fire their gun on the shooting range. According to ABC News, the number of shots fired per officer in each of the 112 shooting incidents in New York City this year was 3.2. Last year, it was 3.7 shots fired per officer, down from a high of 5 in 1995.
In 2005, New York City police officers fired 616 bullets, about 30 percent more than the 477 annual average from 1999 to 2004. In just one incident last year, police fired 77 shots before winging a gunman who was returning fire outside the Taft Houses in East Harlem. Including the Bell incident, NYPD cops have fired 483 shots this year, putting them on pace for fewer than last year but still about 12 percent more than the 477 average.
http://www.villagevoice.com/2006-11-28/news/guns-gone-wild/
| |
|
| gun control in the usa
Posted: 4/15/2009 8:58:54 AM | Showing the stats earlier how Armed Citizens are better shots then the Local Law Enforcement should encourage more people to own a Firearm, and get educated in basic Firearms Safety, and the abilty to hit the intended target by spending time at the range, as often as permited.
Check out this link, to see how one Business Owner, had to use a Firearm in Self Defence, not Once, not Twice, not Three times,..but more,......and left just as many ARMED Criminals,....DEAD........
Then YOU decide,.....
The only "Good" Armed Criminal,...is a DEAD, Armed Criminal !
And "WHO" shoots, and or Kills most of these Armed Criminals ?????
ARMED CITIZENS !
http://www.ignatius-piazza-front-sight.com/2009/04/13/a-gunfighting-living-legend/
If,... "YOU",. believe that your Life,.your Loved Ones Lifes, are worth Protecting,
"YOU",.. had better have a Firearm, and not only "Know How" to use it,..
but be "Willing To Use It !" | |
|
|
| Page 100 of 102
|
62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86, 87, 88, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99, 100, 101, 102 |
|
Home
login 
