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| gun control in the usa
Posted: 9/9/2007 6:20:08 PM | Have your guns fine, but your government needs to keep them in your country. WE dont want them and that is our soverign right.
You have the right to protect yourself. I never said otherwise. But your nation should keep it's damn guns where you are. Your neighbours, Mexico and Canada do not want them, and that is our right.
Then it seems to me that you are NOT enforcing YOUR own borders. YOUR government should keep them out. Please do so. That isnt OUR job down here. | |
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Pucks
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Joined: 10/14/2006
Msg: 827 | |
| gun control in the usa
Posted: 9/9/2007 6:33:27 PM | ^^^ if it were only that easy.
Stricker gun laws in America would be the best solution. | |
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| gun control in the usa
Posted: 9/9/2007 6:38:24 PM | ^^^ if it were only that easy.
Wont happen because of this thing called the 2nd amendment. Looks like you gotta enforce your borders more. | |
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| gun control in the usa
Posted: 9/9/2007 7:31:29 PM | we have great gun laws, the cops ,DA,and judges wont enforce them. | |
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| gun control in the usa
Posted: 9/10/2007 5:21:50 AM | >>>^^^ if it were only that easy.
Stricker gun laws in America would be the best solution.
Wait wait wait....
You're arguing that alot of guns are smuggled illegally into Canada, creating more crime.
So how is America creating harsher laws against law abiding citizens going to stop non-law abiding citizens actions?
Thats like saying making murder illegal should stop all murders. Its a pipe dream | |
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| gun control in the usa
Posted: 9/10/2007 6:39:06 AM | I just found the exact stats to that figure I used earlier, on police firearms use in Montreal. It can really show the difference in attitudes, as regards to the use of firearms in Canada.
Montreal is the second largest city in this country. We have all the normal things any large city does. There's organized crime, street gangs, and drug dealers. We even have a few motorcycle clubs like the Hell's Angels.
The population of Montreal ? We've got a population of about two million, btw.
Total shots fired by Montreal policemen, in the line of duty ?
Year Incidents Rounds fired
2006 3 9 ( six fired during one incident, the Dawson rampage)
2005 10 40
2004 5 11
2003 8 15
2002 11 25
Source : Montreal Police Services, as reported in the Montreal Gazette.
That's 100 rounds fired, in five years, in 37 incidents.
I wonder how many US cities the size of Montreal could say they fired as few rounds as Montreal officers have, in that same time period.
I don't know if anyone keeps records on these things (I'm sure they must, or I at least hope so) , but my feeling would be that weapons use would be much higher.
You want proof that gun laws work ?
There it is, if you can get rid of the "gun myth".
As I said, you simply can't do that in the USA. | |
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| gun control in the usa
Posted: 9/10/2007 11:29:38 AM | | And what was it *prior* to these kinds of laws been administered? More or less? | |
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| gun control in the usa
Posted: 9/10/2007 12:30:50 PM | Well, I'd have to do some research, but I would imagine it honestly hasn't changed all that much. We've never had that "gun myth" popularized here, and gun ownership is not particularly strong outside of rural areas. It isn't a part of how we define ourselves.
I would say those uses of firearms might have increased with easier access to guns, simply because there would be more in circulation. Statistically, more firearms (particularly handguns) means more of a chance for them to fall into the wrong hands. Easier access increases that risk , and any control reduces it - but does not eliminate it. There will always be some risk, in any system of controls, that it won't ever be (nor should it be expected to be) 100 perfect.
As I keep saying, those cultural myths are critical, in their impact on us.
Because of them, firearms are pretty much "untouchable" there, politically. There are so much a part of your culture and tradition, that they are bulletproof. 
My point about the number of rounds fired by policemen is mainly trying to show some Americans what they might believe is totally impossible to occur in reality. It would be interesting to ask Americans (given those parameters for a city) how many rounds they might expect an entire police force to fire in it for one year.
From some of the videos I've seen, I've seen more rounds fired in one incident , than that.
That's normal, when you are facing more armed assailants. One of the reasons that figure is so low here, is that they are not facing the same number of armed suspects, nor the same lethality) of firearms on the other side.
It seems quite illogical to me that having a stronger control making sure that the citizens who respect firearms get them , while making sure it's a lot harder for the bad guys to get them , is in any way bad at all.
For gun owners especially, any "bad" incident makes firearms in general less respected by many in the community who are not as devoted to them. It;s in all our mutual interest to find ways of avoiding them however we can. | |
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| gun control in the usa
Posted: 9/10/2007 2:39:58 PM | I think it is up to both sides of the border to try to control illegal guns form entering the country....similar to Canada warning the States that certain people here have the right to cross a border, but...they may well be unwanted in America.
What happens when Canada makes pot legal, and the States have a sh*tfit about the whole deal? Do we say "Hey...don't want it in your country? Guess it is your problem to stop them, huh?" No..Canadian border guards would stop them too.
Rural types have guns, but what does a city dweller need a gun for in the city? Outlaw them,a nd make the owners lock them up, at, say, an army base. They can go shoot there, or pick up their weapon for hunting season. Otherwise, they don't need it in the city at all. | |
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| gun control in the usa
Posted: 9/10/2007 2:59:36 PM | I agree let the cops and the bad guys have them- they will kill each other and the world will be a better place . | |
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| gun control in the usa
Posted: 9/10/2007 6:31:57 PM |
What happens when Canada makes pot legal, and the States have a sh*tfit about the whole deal? Do we say "Hey...don't want it in your country? Guess it is your problem to stop them, huh?" No..Canadian border guards would stop them too.
Canada doesnt have to make it legal for it to be a problem...it already is...NOW, even with it being ILLEGAL IN THIS HEMISPHERE. There is no "Pot Amendment" here in our constitution. Thats why border control should be put to work, since silly laws dont.
Pleaase dont even think about tinkering with our gun rights when this glaring example shoots your philosophies & beliefs in the foot:
The size of marijuana shipments smuggled from Canada into the United States has increased, largely because of the increasingly for-profit nature of marijuana production in Canada, which the RCMP reports is now dominated by organized crime, most notably Hells Angels OMG and Vietnamese criminal groups. Despite the apparent increase in marijuana smuggling from Canada, Mexico remains by far the principal source area of foreign-produced marijuana in the United States.
http://www.usdoj.gov/ndic/pubs11/13846/marijuana.htm | |
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| gun control in the usa
Posted: 9/12/2007 1:59:36 AM | im sure alot of people in the city enjoy the sport of shooting...plus im sure there is a crime problem in the big cities also...i live outside charlotte and a article i read was that the responce time was 8 min for the police to get to you after you make first contact,alot can be done to you in 8 min.
and even if they are outlawed do you think a person that would break into your home would care about breaking that law????
if you havent been keeping up with the news lately you have no doubt heard about the gun ban of washington D.C...since its enactment crime has skyrocketed..so i guess it really doesnt work...make owneing a gun a crime and only th crimenals will have them. | |
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| gun control in the usa
Posted: 9/12/2007 2:13:50 AM | People get killed with or without guns.
People will own guns weither it is legal or not.
Stupid people kill, not guns. | |
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| gun control in the usa
Posted: 9/12/2007 3:07:19 AM | | koss78a--- WHY ARE YOU TRYING TO DRIVE UP CRIME?-- everywhere, where gun control has been instituted, crime rates have risen not gone down-- not sure why you would want that? | |
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| gun control in the usa
Posted: 9/12/2007 4:25:55 AM |
koss78a--- WHY ARE YOU TRYING TO DRIVE UP CRIME?-- everywhere, where gun control has been instituted, crime rates have risen not gone down-- not sure why you would want that?
The Brady Bill was implemented in February of 1994. In 1997, the number of violent crimes committed with firearms had fallen 25% since 1994, while the overall number of violent crimes had declined 14%. (18)(23)
It's not nearly so cut and dried
"Summary of the Brady Law." Viewed in January of 1999 on the Handgun Control, Inc. web site, http://www.handguncontrol.org/
Year-End Crime Statistics Show Gun Laws Work, Says Sarah Brady." Handgun Control, Inc., January 4, 1999. Source Cited: "1997 Uniform Crime Reports." Federal Bureau of Investigation | |
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| gun control in the usa
Posted: 9/12/2007 5:34:37 AM |
everywhere, where gun control has been instituted, crime rates have risen not gone down-- not sure why you would want that?
Because I live in a country where that concept has been proven to be wrong ?  | |
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| gun control in the usa
Posted: 9/12/2007 9:03:35 AM | msg 840 and 841--- crock of bs-- check out Aus. govt stats, stats after c-86, way back to Nazi Germany 30's when Hitler brought in gun control, Dr. John Lott and a ton more
Sarah Brady and her bunch been fomenting socialist propaganda for years, Allan Rock, big city lawyer who had very little clue of how even farms worked.
Now you who wrote the messages know that what you espouse is half truth, innuendo and a lot of garbage [typical socialist skills] -- there is not one CREDIBLE bit of info that even suggests that gun control works.
The most feared sound heard by a crook breaking into a house is the slide action of a Remington shotgun being actioned--- but don't take my word for it--ask the one's that know-- the criminals!!! | |
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| gun control in the usa
Posted: 9/12/2007 9:37:06 AM | crock of bs
Actually, it's not. Put down that Remington for a minute, while I shoot some holes in that paper target of an argument you just proposed.
Actually, comparing Canada and the US here is quite an interesting experience. We live in the same area (essentially) , we have a roughly similar standard of living and lifestyle (with the exception of gun control ), we watch essentially the same violent films and play the same violent video games....
Not identical, certainly. But rather close in some ways, and different in others.
A comparison of police-reported crime rates between Canada and the United States for 2000 shows that the U.S. has much higher rates of violent crime, while Canada generally has higher rates of property crime. Despite differences in rates, trends in crime between the two countries have been quite similar over the past twenty years.
In Canada, there were 542 homicides in 2000 resulting in a national rate of 1.8 homicides per 100,000 population. By comparison, there were 15,517 homicides in the U.S., resulting in a rate (5.5) three times higher than Canada’s
Similarly, the aggravated assault rate in the U.S. was more than double the Canadian rate in 2000. The U.S. also showed a higher rate of robbery (65% higher) than Canada. About 41% of robberies in the U.S. involved a firearm, compared to 16% in Canada.
Canada reported higher rates for three of the four comparable property offences. There were about 30% more break-ins and motor vehicle thefts per capita in Canada than the U.S. in 2000. While Canada has had a higher rate of break-ins since the early 1980s, the motor vehicle theft rate has only surpassed the American rate over the last five years. The arson rate in Canada was 40% higher than in the U.S., while the U.S. reported 11% more thefts per capita than Canada.
http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:QQJUjdm8lCgJ:www.statcan.ca/
english/freepub/85-002-XIE/0110185-002-XIE.pdf+Canadian+vs+American
+crime+statistics&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=ca
Less chance of being killed by a criminal, less chance of being assaulted , and far less chance of facing an armed robber.
Wait....
That CAN'T happen WITH GUN CONTROL ?????????? 
The NRA wouldn't lie to me ?????
Actually, it does, and my country proves it every day. Research our stats, anywhere you'd like, and come back here and tell me otherwise.l
You may have more break-ins and car thefts here, but at the end of the day more people are alive. That's why God made insurance, anyway .
I think you'll find, as I keep saying, that placing the same attention on social improvements will give far more benefits than shooting people when they break in will.
If gun control was a problem, then we would certainly expect Canada to be a good place for that lab experiment to prove it so, especially in regards to being rather close to Americans in so many ways.
The experiment is over, and there's only one conclusion.
(And again, I agree gun control in any effective sense won't happen there, for the reasons I've already submitted.) | |
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| gun control in the usa
Posted: 9/12/2007 9:59:52 AM | | -----Typical for a socialist- twist the numbers how you want them--- when are you gonna get it- gun control doesn't work, never did, never will--- c 86 was brought in to employ a bunch of liberal misfits and keep you big city types in the dark!!! I spent seven years in the Armed Forces of this country and another dozen or so on volunteer ambulance and fire depts. I damn proudly call myself Canadian. The problem here is that all the socialist types are so ready to take my hard earned rights and property because they are too damn lazy to work to get their own!!! | |
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| gun control in the usa
Posted: 9/12/2007 10:24:44 AM |
The problem here is that all the socialist types are so ready to take my hard earned rights and property because they are too damn lazy to work to get their own!!!
You still have the right to a firearm, even a handgun.
On topic here, no one's restricted you from having a weapon. So you can't go out and buy a Saturday Night Special , or an Uzi ...... your Remington will handle anything you could expect to run into out there is Albertastan.
From bears , to criminals breaking into your house....or even socialists.....  | |
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| gun control in the usa
Posted: 9/12/2007 10:30:07 AM |
i say rid the world of guns
I say rid the world of anti-gunners. | |
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| gun control in the usa
Posted: 9/12/2007 10:37:59 AM | In msg 844, ronscons said:
-----Typical for a socialist- twist the numbers how you want them---
If you truly believe that to be the case, then why don't you prove it, rather than engage in personal attacks? | |
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| gun control in the usa
Posted: 9/12/2007 7:05:33 PM | the brady bunch is very bias..according to them gun control will save the world..but if you do some fact checking you will find that most own guns and in the year 2000 sarah brady bought a 30-06 springfield scoped rifle for her son..a very powerfull round that can penatrate bullit proof vests. they also said that polymer pistols could be used by terrorist because they could not be detected by metal detecters which is untrue, they have steel barrels springs fireing pins and slides the guns are actually 60% plus metal.
i agree there should be strict gun laws and heavy precussions for those who break the law but to take all guns away is not the way to go..we have learned by the la riots and katrina that the police cant keep us all safe. | |
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| gun control in the usa
Posted: 9/16/2007 6:08:26 PM | | Moon-dog.... hpw many drivebys involve 30-06 or any other long gun that doesn't at the least appear to be an assault weapon (often they are assault style but not the same actual mechanisms) versus handguns. I think that except for a few rabid granola eating flakes most "anti-american style gun control" advocates don't really have a problem with firearms in the hands of capable and stable people provided there is a need for it. ie a farmer that could check the barn and have a run in with a bear. What the bone of contention is has more to do with the simple fact that down there a useless****snot like the tool at V-Tech can mail-order handguns and enough clips to cause serious greif while having been identified as mentally disturbed without big red flags going up. What form of gun control or better enforcement of existing controls is merely an academic arguement. The fact is that existing laws either are useless or are being enforced in the most slipshod manner possible as the problem would not be on the scale it is if that weren't the case. Add into that a "culture of fear" (cite the castle doctorine which has not been shown to do anything other than make people feel safer in shooting anyone that "frightens" them with minimal investigation and no legal repercussions even in states where violent crime had already been declining for 5 years prior to the introduction of this bill) that exists in the US and there are all the ingredients for a self-perpetuating problem. | |
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| gun control in the usa
Posted: 9/16/2007 8:55:19 PM | Uhoh! All this talk about guns, and plus the fact I just played Halo 2 and Grand Theft Auto on Xbox and I am now in the "killing zone", then add to that I just watched Pulp Fiction earlier today, on top of that I OWN GUNS!
Watch out people! I am on a rampage! I am freakin' off of a video killing spree. I'm going to go grab the first gun I see, hmmm oh that would be my Desert Eagle, grab my Mossberg shotgun and strap it to my back. Oh my, I cannot forget to grab the Glock 9mm and the S&W 357. Don't want to forget those. I should also toss the AK the SKS and the Uzi in the truck to just to round it all out. While I'm at it I'll even grab that ol' 22 rifle with the "hand crank" trigger, just in case. Well since I'm doing all that I might as well toss in the 30.06 and 7mm hunting rifles too.
OH YEA!!! Now I can start pumping tons-o-lead into anyone I see. AAAAHHHH!!! I just cannot control myself anymore! I must shoot people! UG UG! ME MUST KILL! OH NO! PEOPLE MUST DIE!!
Ah well, either that or I'll go have a beer and watch that movie I recorded on DVR earlier tonight. Hmmmm... Which one, what to do... So much excitement going on tonight.... Oooo, popcorn sounds good. Ok, movie it is! Whew! Thats a relief!
I love the second amendment! | |
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