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| gun control in the usa
Posted: 4/22/2007 6:37:47 PM | | There was an incident this last week in Washington state of a youth with three loaded handguns at school.you think he bought them legally. They were stolen by a son out of his dads safe, 7 guns in total,the father was a Washington State Patrol. | |
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| gun control in the usa
Posted: 4/22/2007 7:08:08 PM | | It depends on what you want to use it on, and at what range. Cho used a .22cal., and a 9mm. | |
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| gun control in the usa
Posted: 4/22/2007 10:35:09 PM |
My point is if he couldn't have gotten his hands on a gun he could have used a home made bomb or set a fire or poisioned the water, air or food.
You have no idea what he was capable of. Other than using a firearm to kill 30 people. the psychology of a bomber vs a mass shooter is different. Which is why we don't get more people trying to use explosives on their schools and houses.
As for your arguements about not using stats. Sorry, but without statistics, it's just opinion, can't have a debate when it's just based on opinion.
Pro-gunners in the USA just don't like how every other first world nation has better crime statistics. | |
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| gun control in the usa
Posted: 4/22/2007 11:44:16 PM | | well they wont take my guns thats for sure , you cant in the US it wont work it just flat wont work . There is no reason to even talk about it cause it will never happen there are to many people with too many guns , you wanna see another civil war try to take the guns away . You break in my house your gonna get shot . If you could take the guns away here anyone who wanted one could go buy one on the streets in no time at all . I grew up around guns always had them in our house and i never shot any of my friends or animals or anything else and if i touched those guns with out my dad there to watch to make sure i was safe he would kick my ass six ways from sunday and i knew it too , and that kept me out of the gun safe . That guy that shot all them people the other day he would have found a way to do it one way or the other . But some people dont understand that some folks just arent right in the head and they are gonna do somthin stupid , if i would have been there or anyone else i know for that matter, he wouldnt have got very many cause somone would have went to the truck for a gun and it wouldnt have been long and that ole boy would have been layin in a puddle of his own blood . | |
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| gun control in the usa
Posted: 4/23/2007 12:13:51 AM | | The puke from virginia tech legally owned his guns proves right there gun control doesn't work.The idiot who shot up Dawson college in Montreal legally owned his guns too.Gun laws from two different countries ,looked how well that worked.People are becoming sociopatic and when they don't use guns they use other weapons sooner or later the anti gun idiots will realize its the people that are the problem.In Canada knives kill more people in a week then guns do all year.And yes if you do carry a gun you are protected thats why cops and soldiers carry them isn't your life worth defending? isn't your life worth the same as a cops? Criminal gangs use handguns all the time in Canada dispite the gov't wasting 4 billion on a registry thats done absolutely nothing.Thats what you get when cappucino drinking liberals from Ontario who don't know****about guns are deciding gun laws.Most people who are the victim of a violent crime and lived through it whats the first thing they run out and buy the next day? now imagine if you had a gun for years and well trained in how to use it BEFORE and incident happened you'd likely wouldn't end up a victim in the first place.Works for cops why not you.Don't like guns don't buy one but shut up for the rest of us who want to protect ourselves from predators from the liberal justice system. | |
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| gun control in the usa
Posted: 4/23/2007 12:14:07 AM | i think there should be less gun control, the more people carring guns the less likely gangs and thugs are going to be around. take the state of AZ. at the age of 21 you have the right to carry a side arm in plain view, now how many times have you heard in the news about something really bad happing in that state? would you or any one else go robb a bank if you know there was 30 or more people in there with guns? or a gas station where there might be just six poeple carrying? or even just trying to car jack someone if you know the second you garbed there door you would be looking down a barrel? i think not. the problem is that only the bad people have the guns and they didnt buy them they stole them. all the gangs and thugs are counting on the good poeple not having a gun, because they been taken away. take the school shooting last week, if 2 or 3 of the student that had a CHL permit, was alowed to have them on campus how many live could have been save?  | |
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| gun control in the usa
Posted: 4/23/2007 12:22:36 AM | i bet every gang member and simple thug in the U.S. would vote for more gun control, it would make robbing and killing much more easyer for them!!!
and yes i have a C.H.L. permit and carry a gun every where i go!!!!
the other problem is most kids get the gun thats lying around. it hard for my kids to get my gun cause i never take it off. | |
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| gun control in the usa
Posted: 4/23/2007 12:33:09 AM | | i dont think its about lees or more gun control its just refineing and updateing, and "enforceing" the ones we have ..the sad thing i believe is alot of the lawabideing people out there are sheepish and think the police will be at every corner and be there the instant something haappens i read once in a news article that the average arm robbery lasts 1.5 minutes and the average naitional police responce time is 4. something. | |
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| gun control in the usa
Posted: 4/23/2007 12:41:13 AM | In Canada knives kill more people in a week then guns do all year. Yup, and we have a much lower overall murder rate than the USA, and gun control.
And yes if you do carry a gun you are protected thats why cops and soldiers carry them isn't your life worth defending? isn't your life worth the same as a cops? Criminal gangs use handguns all the time in Canada dispite the gov't wasting 4 billion on a registry thats done absolutely nothing.
Didn't you just say more murders happen with knives? So now criminals all use guns? Are you confused nightcowboy? You seem confused.
The gun registry was stupid though
Thats what you get when cappucino drinking liberals from Ontario who don't know****about guns are deciding gun laws.Most people who are the victim of a violent crime and lived through it whats the first thing they run out and buy the next day?
A gun? No wait, they don't, because thats not how the laws work here, but hey maybe in nightwildwest cowboy dream land the do.
now imagine if you had a gun for years and well trained in how to use it BEFORE and incident happened you'd likely wouldn't end up a victim in the first place.Works for cops why not you.Don't like guns don't buy one but shut up for the rest of us who want to protect ourselves from predators from the liberal justice system.
Wow lets imagine, no wait, lets look at the facts. The vast bulk of the time officers are killed without ever getting a shot off, or even going for their weapon.
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/killed/2004/section1felonkilled.htm
Still confused?
i think there should be less gun control, the more people carring guns the less likely gangs and thugs are going to be around. take the state of AZ. at the age of 21 you have the right to carry a side arm in plain view, now how many times have you heard in the news about something really bad happing in that state?
I have bad news for you, the murder rate is 1.5 times that of the national average in Arizona. and the 15th highest robbery rate in the USA.
http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/azcrime.htm | |
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| gun control in the usa
Posted: 4/23/2007 1:00:07 AM | You have no idea what he was capable of.
Exactly, You nor I have any idea of what he was capable of, there is not way to say that if he didn't have a gun 30 people won't have died.
Pro-gunners in the USA just don't like how every other first world nation has better crime statistics.
Now that's funny. rotfl That statement reminds me of some little kid going around saying na na na na na  you're just jealous cause my countries crime stats. are better than your countries crime stats. rotfl . It has nothing to do with jealousy, it's a difference of opinion, in a way of thinking.
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| gun control in the usa
Posted: 4/23/2007 1:00:12 AM | nightcowboy: Couldnt have said it better myself, darlin. Right on.  | |
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| gun control in the usa
Posted: 4/23/2007 1:02:11 AM | i have bad news for you, the murder rate is 1.5 times that of the national average in Arizona. and the 15th highest robbery rate in the USA.
then tell me this one, why didn't this kid go on a killing spree at the local fireing range? or at a police station? maybe an N.A.R. raley? why pick a gun free area?
could it be that theres to many guns at the other place? and he'ed be dead after the first shoot was fired
gun control that one!!!!!!!!!!!!!! | |
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| gun control in the usa
Posted: 4/23/2007 1:03:28 AM | Exactly, You nor I have any idea of what he was capable of, there is not way to say if he didn't have a gun this horrible tradgedy would or would not have happened.
But we do know exactly what happened as the law stands now, and we know it happens more in the USA than any other country.
nightcowboy: Couldnt have said it better myself, darlin. Right on.
 Nice to know rants with zero factual content get so many aplause around here. Our insane conservatives get along well with the American base south of the border.
CustomJim thats fine, you can think that, thankfully people who arn't ruled by fear seem to run this country. I guess we can thank them for our lack of gun crime.
and tell me this one, why didn't this kid go on a killing spree at the local fireing range? or at a police station? maybe an N.A.R. raley? why pick a gun free area?
Because his targets were at the school?
I'm not sure about the national association of realtors. But if you mean the NRA, well he can thank the NRA for the lax gun laws that allowed him to commit this act, why would he want to shoot them?
Sorry to tell you about Arizona though, guess the murders and robberies just escaped your attention.
Oh also a reposting of that address because I edited it in on the last post.
http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/azcrime.htm | |
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| gun control in the usa
Posted: 4/23/2007 1:06:49 AM | the united states of america... the pit of the universe
you would have thought this murderer would have been faced by a hoard of gun packing maniacs...mmmmm it appears no one had a gun, just a deranged killer.
here is a statistic for you,whenever there is a tragic event as in columbine and va tech...no one has a gun. they are law abiding peace seeking citizens trying to make it thru another day. rules followed again for no firearms on campus maybe
gun control or not ....i would have sh!t a brick to have a gun in that situation or someone else have one. as a father i would have wished someone was authorized to carry a gun and possibly save some innocent lives for a change instead of waiting for the freak to run out of ammo and take his own life. it is obvious that while the animal was alive ...only deadly force would have stopped him
i wish someone had a gun maybe half of the dead would be alive.....better than laying there getting multiple rounds into everyone. if someone were allowed and could have used their gun and was successful, this person would be a hero,lauded world wide......including canada. ironically, we have no gun toting heros to worship for their courage in the face of mortal danger..just unarmed law abiding , now wounded and dead victims.
i do not own a gun and have never bought one, but i feel there are times they are a necessary solution to an evil, life threatening predicament.
i wonder what you would be thinking laying there waiting for your turn......yeah i know....i'm canadian and i wish i had an american with a gun to protect me. | |
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| gun control in the usa
Posted: 4/23/2007 1:33:41 AM | charlesedm:
My sweet, dont you guys (Canada) have your own problems to deal with??
I've got a sink that wont drain if you'd like....
and by the way, what "border" do you speak of? Because the only border "south" of me is in Tejana..... | |
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| gun control in the usa
Posted: 4/23/2007 3:17:22 AM | Back to main topic "gun control in the usa"
This argument is dead. It is far too late to control the amount of guns we have in the USA. | |
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| gun control in the usa
Posted: 4/23/2007 3:40:38 AM |
and by the way, what "border" do you speak of? Because the only border "south" of me is in Tejana.....
\/\/\/\/You see this is what I said...
Nice to know rants with zero factual content get so many aplause around here. Our insane conservatives get along well with the American base south of the border.
Nightcowboy and I are Canadian, so if I'm refering to a Conservative nutcase, and how he has something in common with Americans south of our border, well geeze. I guess I'm reffering to people like you.
You see all countries have these "borders" so Canada's southern border is your northern border.
I can't believe I'm explaining this to an adult.
as to this....
My sweet, dont you guys (Canada) have your own problems to deal with??
Well think of it as the national equivilant of being concerned when they hear the sound of domestic abuse next door.
Also, considering you just aplauded the statements of one Canadian, and are now saying this Canadian should not talk about your problems. I think your issue is Canadians not agreeing with you rather than keeping to our own business.
Maybe you should get a man to clean that drain for you. Make sure he isn't an illegal  | |
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| gun control in the usa
Posted: 4/23/2007 9:29:15 AM | ^^ Why, Charles, that wasn't very nice.....I think you hurt my feelings.
*attempts to induce guilt trip*
Thank you for clearing up the border question. (even if you were rude about)....boy, never become a teacher, I suspect your students may put gum in your chair.
~I did not know that nightcowboy was Canadian. *inserts foot into mouth*
nightcowboy: Forgive my insult. It was unintended.  | |
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| gun control in the usa
Posted: 4/23/2007 9:37:22 AM | | "gun control" in the USA? Try NO control in the USA. No self-control, anyway. We've got a paternalistic attitude toward individuals when it comes to making decisions about their sexual choices, attempting to legislate them out of existance, but when it comes to vices? Don't anybody be telling Bubba he can't smoke, drink, jerk off to porn, gorge on all the Fat Attacks he wants and surround himself with a well-armed fortress, as long as he doesn't want to marry another guy! (And, of course, he wears his seatbelt.) | |
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| gun control in the usa
Posted: 4/23/2007 9:47:45 AM | Here you go, this says it all, just some real life statistics;
Gun History
Whether you agree or not, it's an interesting lesson in history.
Something to think about...
In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
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In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
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Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.
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China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
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Guatemala established gun control in 1964. >From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
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Uganda established gun control in 1970. >From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
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Cambodia established gun control in 1956. >From 1975 to 1977, one million 'educated' people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
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Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control: 56 million.
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It has now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were forced by new law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by their own government, a program costing Australia taxpayers more than $500 million dollars. The first year results are now in:
Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2 percent
Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6 percent
Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent)!
In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up 300 percent. Note that while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the criminals did not, and criminals still possess their guns!
While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady decrease in armed robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically upward in the past 12 months, since criminals now are guaranteed that their prey is unarmed.
There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults of the ELDERLY. Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public safety has decreased, after such monumental effort and expense was expended in successfully ridding Australian society of guns. The Australian experience and the other historical facts above prove it.
______________________________
You won't see this data on the American evening news or hear our president, governors or other politicians disseminating this information. Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws affect only the law-abiding citizens.
Take note my fellow Americans.....before it's too late!
The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind them of this history lesson.
With guns, we are 'citizens'. Without them, we are 'subjects'. | |
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| gun control in the usa
Posted: 4/23/2007 10:33:58 AM | To All
With the incident this week past concerning the death of several people we have to take a moment indeed to feel compassion and recognise loss for those impacted by that well publicized event . The loss is great . It certainly provides opportunity to reflect on similar events in the past . There will be many prayers said for those involved . We or I at least can only hope that the Million wonderful memories of people impacted will over shadow and help reduce the pain felt regarding there loss. There is definitely a place in my heart for those suffering. Gods peace be with you .
We have to keep in mind regardless how we try to make it happen the fire arm did not cause this or similar events . It was the intentional wrong doing of individuals or groups of people who are responsible . The fire arm is some times the tool of choice for committing these violations .
It might seem ironic but the legitimate use of fire arms in North America is among the safest of many pastimes or recreational activities . Things that we consider to be safe acceptable and even fun activities for our children are responsible for more injury and death to humans than recreational fire arms use . We check statistically the rates of injury and death for activities such as water sports , bicycling, snowmobiling or skiing to name a few , these seemingly acceptable activities in most cases are responsible for far more injuries and death than recreational fire arms activities . Now compare recreational legitimate shooting sports to something we are all involved in, "CROSSING THE STREET ". Like crossing the street it is most often a blatant disregard for known safety practices or a disregard for current laws and legislation that is the cause of death and injury to others.
Members of our communities can try to blame fire arms, there is no doubt that that given a desire some one with intent could have caused more damage and destruction with a there Honda civic or kitchen knife. It is unfortunate that there are times when a fire arm is the tool of choice.
Emotions are real . Loss and hurt are some of the reasons we experience the things we do. Our feeling have to be respected. Butt all should apply some logic to situations as well as emotion. It is the intentional wrongdoing of people and or there criminal activities that is most often causing our society hurt and loss . Maybe it is time to give the energy , time, and resources to stopping crime and holding criminals accountable . Have activist and emotionally injured people put there time to lobbying our politicians to dealing with that aspect of our population . Not putting controls on the tools they use that are also used by millions of safe, law abiding citizens on this continent . like anything we do it is the wrong doing of only a few that make a bad name for all involved . Lets target the problem
Safe shooting
Kevin | |
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| gun control in the usa
Posted: 4/23/2007 11:06:24 AM | | Canada has a lower crime rate compared to the US because we are only one tenth the population.Per capita we have the same amount and type of crimes the US does.Criminals use both guns and knives Charles read my posts completely before you start to whine.The US had it right with the second ammendment and its constitution if a foreign army took over the US gov't imagine how hard it would be for them to control an armed pissed offed population,would make Iraq look like a gang fight.Where as in Canada if we got taken over most Canucks being unarmed and too passive wouldn't be able to do anything other then apologize.The gun made the US a nation and will protect it the same way.You can try to confuse people by taking biased stats and twisting them into what you want Charles but common sense still prevails.If you get attacked by some punk with a weapon and you have nothing to fight back with what are you going to do make a mean face? draw a weapon you at LEAST start off with a 50/50 chance.Kill or be killed your choice.I carried guns for a living as a soldier and a Brinks guard and the people around me were alot more polite,respectful and didn't start any trouble. | |
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| gun control in the usa
Posted: 4/23/2007 11:52:31 AM | Actually, crime rates are calculated on a per capita basis. The standard unit of measure seems to be 100K. And using that standardized measure, the crime rate in the US is higher than most developed nations.
The question is: what causes it? Guns don't cause violence, they are tools which are used to commit violence. Gun control has been shown not to work; just look at the violent crimes committed in areas where there is gun control. One argument for gun control is that if there were fewer guns bought legally, they couldn't be stolen and then used by criminals. The problem with this argument is that assuming that it were even possible to snap your fingers and make every gun in American disappear, they would just be smuggled into the US, just like drugs, illegal immigrants, and everything else. Like it or not, the fact is that guns are not going away. | |
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| gun control in the usa
Posted: 4/23/2007 12:12:13 PM | So, in the US, we have more violent crime, more children living in poverty, higher obesity, much higher consumption, less health care, and the highest percentage of our population incarcerated - than in any other developed nation.
Maybe a few things need to change, ya think? | |
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| gun control in the usa
Posted: 4/23/2007 1:05:25 PM | ^^^^^^ the post above lists exactly the people that I'd prefer not to have easy access to anything dangerous to others  Man you might want to make driving tests tougher while you are at it and DUI sentences stiffer.
Mature and responsible people cause very little problems with firearms or much of anything else for that matter but, the desciption above doesn't denote a mature and civilized society.
BTW Arizona improved from 2005 to 2006, they are now only the 47th state for resident safety(where 1 is safest and 50 is least safe), the year before they were 48th. | |
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