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| gun control in the usa
Posted: 6/27/2008 9:43:09 PM | Looney, as was stated a few pages back, you Canucks live in a totally different world where it's too cold to BE a criminal for 6 months out of the year.
Canucks don't have to deal with 300,000+ illegal aliens a year, about half of which are criminals, coming across their southern border...you only have to deal with TOURISTS.
Take a good look at Mexico's current problem with the drug trade & how many of their police are corrupt...not to mention that the good ones that are against drugs are getting assassinated left & right. Like the Mexican Drug Dealers that cross our southern border at will are going ot be NICER when they get here?? 
This is why we have groups like Opencarry.org
Law-Abiding Gun Owners who carry their guns in public.
Besides, America just has more scumbags, we need to be able to cull the herd occasionally. This is why our Supreme Court just handed down two decisions...One said we shouldn't give Child Molesters the Death Penalty, it's Too Harsh...the other says NO city is allowed to Ban Handguns...protection of the home & family is Sacrosanct...so I guess they meant to say, "Just shoot the child molesters, screw calling the cops." | |
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| gun control in the usa
Posted: 6/28/2008 1:26:14 PM |
You gotta wonder at the folks who still believe that they could defeat the government with the arms they are allowed to bear (not bare!). Maybe such delusion is a symptom of people who shouldn't be allowed near guns.
Delusional like small colonies that fought off a powerful tyrant while being out gunned and winning independence.
I own guns becuase I am granted that personal right under the Constitution of the United States of America.
You can take a match to your second amendment; all it takes is a 5 person majority on the "Supreme Court" to make it disappear. I bear arms because I'm Scripturally authorized by God to protect myself and my loved ones:
Psalm 149
. . .{Let} the high praises of God {be} in their mouth, And a two-edged sword in their hand, to execute vengeance on the nations and punishment on the peoples, to bind their kings with chains and their nobles with fetters of iron, to execute on them the judgment written; This is an honor for all His godly ones. Praise Yahweh!”
Luke 11:21
"When a strong {man,} fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed. But when someone stronger than he attacks him and overpowers him, he takes away from him all his armor on which he had relied and distributes his plunder.”
Luke 11:21
"When a strong [man], fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed.“
Luke 22:36
“And He said to them, "But now, whoever has a money belt is to take it along, likewise also a bag, and whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one.” | |
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| gun control in the usa
Posted: 6/29/2008 11:29:53 PM | | Kinda hard to find a victim to beat up & mug if everyone is indoors around a heater... | |
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| gun control in the usa
Posted: 6/29/2008 11:38:01 PM |
Kinda hard to find a victim to beat up & mug if everyone is indoors around a heater... Hoping that is jest and not an example of the flaws in the American education system..... on the plus side atleast you base your claims on better things that "god says I can" While ignoring that whole "thou shall not kill" commandment thing. Silly religous folks get down right creepy when they start saying their imaginary friend says it is ok for them to have a gun ..... And if you look back gun control is not about banning responsible people from reasonable access.....it is about keeping them either out of the hands of or harder to acquire by flakes. | |
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| gun control in the usa
Posted: 6/30/2008 12:09:22 AM | | This proves the federal gun registry works, in Canada right. At a cost well over 2 billion dollars of tax payer money. Only people are for gun control, are people who can't trust them self with a gun. | |
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| gun control in the usa
Posted: 6/30/2008 3:59:19 AM | The whole point of any discussion about gun control is negated by the very fact that you do not have any control. Guns can be bought quite easily on the streets for a few dollars. Whether it is enshirened in the constitution or not, any civilised country does not need an armed population. You only insist that you keep them because you are afraid. The more scared you become, the bigger guns you buy and in the meantime thousands of your children are killed each year unnecessarily.
From what I have seen in your gun crime statistics, you have enough teenagers killed each year more than equivalent to having a collumbine massacre every day. If you are happy to have your children and grandchildren grow up in the seemigly lawless society that causes you to live in such fear, then carry on, give your kids guns. If you would prefer to live in a safer community, get rid of them. If your constitution allows them, then get rid of the constitution and replace it with something more suitable for life in the 21st century. Simple as. | |
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| gun control in the usa
Posted: 6/30/2008 6:22:34 AM | I do think you have to understand the cultural filters at work here, inside the USA. One cannot impose external solutions on "problems" , only people who are citizens of that country can do so.
Now , as foreigners, we can speak of how differently we see things with those foreign filters over or eyes. That does little to seek a better alternative.
That "gun myth" and individual rights primacy, coupled with a long iconic imagery (and related historical events) that empower that simple "tool" that a firearm actually is (at it's core) make said firearm something totally different from what "we" see - to an average American. Failure to see that excludes any real progress in the discussion.
I say gun control, and something magical happens. I type it on my keyboard, it posts on the POF server, and some Americans reading it see "ban all guns". That's not accidental. It's a reflection of that importance, and iconic value of the firearm there.
It would be a bit like an American going "Why do you have that silly Queen still, who believes God somehow gave her and anyone in her bloodline these mythical powers to be the head of the nation ? You should just kick her and her crown out on the street, and accept it's 2008. " 
It's a rather bad analogy, but I'm simply trying to point out that one needs an American model that will work here - because foreign ones certainly won't.
Canada's proven that one can have a great number of guns around, even handguns, and you can still have remarkable low levels of gun fatalities and injuries. That's not simply because of our gun control laws.
I'm pretty sure that one could stop all such control in Western industrial countries, and the rates of gun fatalities would certainly increase greatly - but they would not reach the number we see in America.
There are other things at work here, besides simply gun control. | |
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| gun control in the usa
Posted: 6/30/2008 7:51:25 AM | ^^^ best post I've seen you make so far, Montreal guy.
A society has to be well-regulated on it's own without needing the gov't for it to be a truly "Kinder, Gentler, Nation". Look at the Swiss! They figured it out! Small area! Small population! Everything pretty much WORKS!!
We used to have a well-regulated society...but you have to go back to pre-1965 to get a good dose of it. Since then the liberals took over and said "Drugs aren't so bad! C'mon, let's all get stoned!!" "Criminals should be treated BETTER in prison! They need Cable TV and we can't WORK them breaking rocks all day anymore!!" "Divorce is OK! Who needs a long-term relationship just to take care of some kids? They don't need STABILITY!!" With those & many other idiotic ideas the US has become a mere shadow of itself.
We used to stand for "Truth, Justice, And The American Way!!" Now we seem to stand for "Oil, Sex, and GIMME GIMME GIMME!!!" Is it any wonder we want to be well and heavily armed?? You can't trust the government to look out for you in the US, you have to look out for yourself...so the average student of history figures that there is going to be a serious revolution sooner or later...and if you aren't prepared, you end up on the loosing side. We've had MANY temporary breakdowns of Law & Order over the last 50 years...we expect more....thefore we tend to arm ourselves.
Of course, this is what you get when you have a country made up of revolutionaries!! It'll likely be CENTURIES before we get it all sorted out right. But if someone would be so kind as to wipe Wash D.C. off the map, it'd make it a whole lot easier...we SO need a better form of government than the republic-turned-beauracracy that we have now...the founding fathers never intended THIS kind of mess. | |
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| gun control in the usa
Posted: 6/30/2008 8:38:56 AM | I like Beachbum 1960's civilised Brit solution, that if the constitution allows guns, people can "get rid of the constitution and replace it with something more suitable for the 21st century."
It's a pie in the sky idea but as simple as saying, you can change if you want to.
Montreal Guys' analysis is deft and insightful. The point about not imposing external solutions to the problems of other countries is a good one, making me think of certain countries' adventures in Iraq and Afghanistan. A not entirely off topic association as guns play a big part in the relevant "problem solving" process.
I can detect in a lot of the posts in this thread, the mythic symbolism of guns that MG hints at, but this would only work as a comparison with our Royal Family, if all the guns concerned had had their firing pins removed. Our Sovereign can no longer demand,"Off with his head!" and now serves a colourful and harmless ceremonial function.
Are Americans really as frightened of their government as they are of each other as bigshrek suggests, and keep guns in readiness for violent insurrection?
Sounds paranoid to me.
I see the ongoing love affair of America with guns as part of an anachronistic "Cowboy" mentality that is deeply ingrained. if someone could just find the will and the right formula to dismantle it, that would be a good thing. As suggested, this will have to come from within rather than outside. | |
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| gun control in the usa
Posted: 6/30/2008 8:52:17 AM |
This proves the federal gun registry works, in Canada right. At a cost well over 2 billion dollars of tax payer money. Only people are for gun control, are people who can't trust them self with a gun.
Bull$hit. I have several guns, which I keep elsewhere since I don't wake up to bears sitting on the hood of my car here in town. With decent gun controls it is easier to defeat bans since there aren't enough flakes with easy access running around shooting people to warrant the public hysteria needed to pull off such a ban.
Now the gun registry here IS a complete farce. But that is more of a problem of government bureaucracy that of anything else. | |
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| gun control in the usa
Posted: 6/30/2008 9:19:44 AM | They can pass all the gun laws they want, but felons are still going to get their hands on them. All gun laws do is dis-arm law abiding firearm owners. And I'm suprised to see that this topic is now 83 pages of pointless rambling.  Seriously people, put it to rest. | |
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| gun control in the usa
Posted: 6/30/2008 9:43:35 PM | Clarence, just take a look at the breakdown of order that occured after hurricane Katrina...or the LA Riots...after Hurricane Andrew...those are just the BIG ones...the only thing that truly keeps Order is people agreeing to be Orderly. We don't have enough cops to enforce our traffic laws, much less crime or gun control or anythng else. War on Drugs?? We LOST it. Inner city violence? Still a HUGE problem.
The big problems we have are a revolving door justice system, liberals have taken the Punishment out of the Prison system, and there is a general moral breakdown occuring on a level which I never would have imagined possible.
The whole thing is further complicated by our giant beauracracy of a gov't which is spending billions on piddling around with other countries instead of focusing on the issues WITHIN the country. We need to close the borders and fix what we've got, before we end up becoming something NOBODY really wants. | |
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| gun control in the usa
Posted: 6/30/2008 10:44:23 PM | | GOOD JOB there Girl, nice to see someone that has their head screwed on Streight out there, My Hats off to you Darlin, I too Own Many Guns, and so do my Sons and Daughters, and they all know how to use them and wont blink an Eye at doing so, Someone breaks into to my Home to Rob me, or to Harm any of my family, they will leave in a Pine Box, as they should ! I for one will defend my rights and the Second Ammendment of our Constitution, with my life. I rather like being a Free Man, in a Free country. The Land of the Free, and the home of the BRAVE. God Bless The USA. | |
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| gun control in the usa
Posted: 6/30/2008 10:56:52 PM | | Guns are inanimate objects incapable of hurting anyone. But in the hands of a willing person, they can. Same goes for a rock. DUH!! | |
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| gun control in the usa
Posted: 7/1/2008 12:10:10 AM | You all are still arguing about guns?
At least we know now that it IS the right of an individual to "bear arms". So 
Bottom line is that some of are armed and some of us aren't. I do happen to fall into the former of the two. Not only that but I "carry" all the time and you all anti-gunners don't even know it.
Ya gotta love a multi state CCW permit.  | |
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| gun control in the usa
Posted: 7/1/2008 8:30:30 AM | We won .
You lost.
Get over it.
No , wait , I really didn't mean that , sorry. Keep it up , keep the whole gun ban/ gun control discussion going . For at least 12- 15 years.
That will encourage the American people as we consolidate this victory.
Thanks for reminding us. Keep up the good work.
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| gun control in the usa
Posted: 7/9/2008 9:18:09 PM | This is the very first post of this thread. .
Too many americans, think by owning a gun, you are safe.
Guns are too many in the states.
People should be limited to how many guns they can have and how they can get guns.
more tighter controls
however the problem is now coming to canada, lots of guns on black market
just recently there was 6 people murder in less the 24 hours in the city of Toronto
all gang related
i say rid the world of guns
It sounds as though these statements are claiming the U.S.A is making and distributing all or at least the majority of all firearms in the world. This is clearly not the case.
The U.S has gun control laws. They just need to enforce them | |
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| gun control in the usa
Posted: 7/9/2008 10:44:08 PM | Some of these Canadians are very naive when they say stuff like " ... more controls ..." and " ... rid the world of guns ...".
It makes no sense to call for "controls" unless you are ready to say who exactly is going to do the controlling.
Even before the Declaration of Independence, lawful gun control was imposed - and the lawful order defied. The location was at Concord Bridge, and the advocate of gun control was General Gage, acting in the name of King George. He lost, and I'm glad he did.
Among the non-socialist states of the world, three recognize that not God but We the People are the source of government authority. The USA was the first, and today it is emulated by India and South Africa. But Canada, Ireland, Australia, Israel, Iran, New Zealand and many others allege that authority derives from God, flowing downward to the common people whose duty it is to obey. Despotism, not freedom, is biblical.
The difference is immensely important. The American people are not subjects but citizens, and hopefully will long remain so. It is appropriate that the people be armed as highly as possible, and the forces of government not able easily to oppress them. The Second Amendment is a means to keep at least some strength in the hands of the people.
If the Canadians had been forced to fight the British in order to become independent, they might show less childlike trust in paternalistic government. | |
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| gun control in the usa
Posted: 7/9/2008 11:18:43 PM | If you take a look at the murder rate in Russia and compare it to the USA you will notice that Russia's is higher. They just don't use guns. Also, there has been a spike in the murder rates in Japan as well. They aren't using guns either.
I see a lot of people saying that we need more gun controls......yet recent history shows that every country that had guns.......and than took them away, England, Australia for example....the violent crime rate went up. And yet, here in America...the areas that have made it easier to carry a concealed firearm.....the crime rate has gone down.
And now the supreme court has ruled that it is the right of the people to own a and bear arms. Which is what gun owners and groups...the NRA etc. have been saying all along.
If you study the constitution you will see that the first 10 ammendments go hand in hand. If one collapses, they all collapse.
I can promise you this much.......even after the supreme courts ruling on the 2nd ammendment.......if Obama is elected.....there will still be big changes ahead. The man is anti-gun and he will do every thing he can to strip us of that right. | |
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| gun control in the usa
Posted: 7/9/2008 11:34:36 PM |
Among the non-socialist states of the world, three recognize that not God but We the People are the source of government authority. The USA was the first, and today it is emulated by India and South Africa. But Canada, Ireland, Australia, Israel, Iran, New Zealand and many others allege that authority derives from God, flowing downward to the common people whose duty it is to obey. Despotism, not freedom, is biblical.
The difference is immensely important. The American people are not subjects but citizens, and hopefully will long remain so. It is appropriate that the people be armed as highly as possible, and the forces of government not able easily to oppress them. The Second Amendment is a means to keep at least some strength in the hands of the people.
You'd make a lot better argument I think if the USA didn't do so poorly compared to Canada, Ireland, Australia, and New zealand in any measure of freedom but to purchase a gun. While your post is well written, it isn't consistent with reality.
http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=19388
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reporters_Without_Borders#Worldwide_Press_Freedom_Index | |
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| gun control in the usa
Posted: 7/10/2008 5:33:19 AM | I do believe we have freedom down fairly well here in the US....
We also make the best movies, the best porn, and the best tv shows. What's not to love? 
Fabrique Nationale makes the vast majority of guns in the world that aren't AK-47's...the US has many, many manufacturers...but few come close to what FN puts out.
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| gun control in the usa
Posted: 7/10/2008 5:36:41 PM | Something that I speculated upon in an earlier post in this thread, and was noted in the Heller case, is that the second amendment to the US Constitution, as written, presumes that the individual's right to keep and bear arms is a pre-existing right.
In other words, the framers of the US Constitution believed that the individual's right to keep and bear arms preceded the writing of the US Constitution. The second amendment to the US Constitution did not grant the right to keep and bear arms, it only stated that this pre-existing right ". . . shall on be infringed."
Given that there are at least three, and likely more, US Federal Court decisions so interpreting the language of the second amendment to the US Constitution; coupled with the long honored practice of reliance upon precedent in US jurisprudence, I would venture that the individual right to keep and bear arms will remain intact for a very long time to come in the US.
For those who are of the gun control side of this issue, I suggest large bottles of valium, and maalox, coupled with large doses of therapy. The silent majority has finally been pushed too far on this particular issue, and now has a precedent with which to fight back; and they are doing so. | |
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| gun control in the usa
Posted: 7/10/2008 6:19:59 PM |
Looney, as was stated a few pages back, you Canucks live in a totally different world where it's too cold to BE a criminal for 6 months out of the year.
Just because you say it doesn't mean it is so..
http://dwb.adn.com/news/alaska/crime/story/9368207p-9282028c.html
Alaska crime rates higher than U.S. average; violence on rise
Huh doesn't seem to effect things..
Canucks don't have to deal with 300,000+ illegal aliens a year, about half of which are criminals, coming across their southern border...you only have to deal with TOURISTS.
in Alaska? Also, 50% criminals? Any data to back that up? | |
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| gun control in the usa
Posted: 7/10/2008 6:38:36 PM |
Canucks don't have to deal with 300,000+ illegal aliens a year, about half of which are criminals, coming across their southern border...you only have to deal with TOURISTS. in Alaska? Also, 50% criminals? Any data to back that up?
Yeah, myopic American tourists that think a Florida CCW permit should extend to Canada, then show up on our borders armed.... Being that dumb one would hope disqualifies those individuals from keeping the permits once they return home. But that is just a personal opinion, I don't mind reasonable people having access but someone that is barely functionally literate nor bright enough to not check local laws before traveling to another country is another matter. | |
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