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 Author Thread: gun control in the usa
 bassman1959

Joined: 2/23/2008
Msg: 2126
gun control in the usa
Posted: 7/16/2008 10:49:23 AM

Umm....Shrek ? There's a rather deep irony (and wisdom) in that post of yours.

CCW license GOOD !

Trained / checked owners GOOD !

So where's the threat to THEIR Second Amendment rights by this "gun control" ?



Yes, it is a threat to the second amendment. As a long time gun owner and a NRA member I have no problem with background checks, training and so on. As a matter of fact I train people.
However, the government does keep tract of the people with CCW's. This is what most of us object to.

If God forbid....the country/government falls who do you think the new government will come after first? The gun owners.
And once they take out the gun owners......the rest have no chance. It happened in Poland and Germany. What makes you think it can't happen in America?

This is why we are against gun registration.
 Lostcauz

Joined: 11/22/2007
Msg: 2127
view profile
History
gun control in the usa
Posted: 7/16/2008 3:50:40 PM

Well I'm assuming you don't want grenades "for home defense". But hunting rifles and skeet guns are a touch harder to conceal than say a TEC 9, and also less attractive to the majority of the criminal element. Modifications, I woud assume would also be coverred, so that someone buying a standard 12 ga then cutting down the barrel could be charged for this alone if they haven't gone a more rigorous route and done the the background checks etc to possess a concealable weapon. But the only person doing this would be the criminal element, so I don't see having something else to charge them with and have them serve a consecutive rather than concurrent sentence for as a bad thing.


A TEC9 is a SEMI automatic pistol; at least the one I confiscated years ago was. Personally, I didn't think it very threatening at all. When test fired, it jammed every other round. The rounds that didn't get hung in the lips of the magazine, "stovepiped", creating a different type of stoppage.

For some, myself included, a shortened 12, or 20, guage shotgun is the preferred firearm for close quarters work. Such weapons are quite easily concealed; as an old law enforcement instructor demonstrated to a class of well seasoned Police Officers.

Shortening the barrel of rifle under 16 inches, or the barrel of a shotgun under 18 inches, makes the respective firearm a "short barreled firearm", and a Class III weapon, subjecting the person possessing it to being convicted of a felony.
 jasman123

Joined: 6/1/2008
Msg: 2128
gun control in the usa
Posted: 7/27/2008 3:59:43 PM
Just something I came across. Thought some of you gun owning supporters woul;d be interested in reading'.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55288

<div class="quote">25 years murder-free
in 'Gun Town USA'
Crime rate plummeted after law
required firearms for residents

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: April 19, 2007
1:52 pm Eastern

© 2008 WorldNetDaily.com




Kennesaw, Ga., City Hall
As the nation debates whether more guns or fewer can prevent tragedies like the Virginia Tech Massacre, a notable anniversary passed last month in a Georgia town that witnessed a dramatic plunge in crime and violence after mandating residents to own firearms.

In March 1982, 25 years ago, the small town of Kennesaw – responding to a handgun ban in Morton Grove, Ill. – unanimously passed an ordinance requiring each head of household to own and maintain a gun. Since then, despite dire predictions of "Wild West" showdowns and increased violence and accidents, not a single resident has been involved in a fatal shooting – as a victim, attacker or defender.

The crime rate initially plummeted for several years after the passage of the ordinance, with the 2005 per capita crime rate actually significantly lower than it was in 1981, the year before passage of the law.

Prior to enactment of the law, Kennesaw had a population of just 5,242 but a crime rate significantly higher (4,332 per 100,000) than the national average (3,899 per 100,000). The latest statistics available – for the year 2005 – show the rate at 2,027 per 100,000. Meanwhile, the population has skyrocketed to 28,189.
By comparison, the population of Morton Grove, the first city in Illinois to adopt a gun ban for anyone other than police officers, has actually dropped slightly and stands at 22,202, according to 2005 statistics. More significantly, perhaps, the city's crime rate increased by 15.7 percent immediately after the gun ban, even though the overall crime rate in Cook County rose only 3 percent. Today, by comparison, the township's crime rate stands at 2,268 per 100,000.

This was not what some predicted.

In a column titled "Gun Town USA," Art Buchwald suggested Kennesaw would soon become a place where routine disagreements between neighbors would be settled in shootouts. The Washington Post mocked Kennesaw as "the brave little city … soon to be pistol-packing capital of the world." Phil Donahue invited the mayor on his show.

Reuters, the European news service, today revisited the Kennesaw controversy following the Virginia Tech Massacre.

Police Lt. Craig Graydon said: "When the Kennesaw law was passed in 1982 there was a substantial drop in crime … and we have maintained a really low crime rate since then. We are sure it is one of the lowest (crime) towns in the metro area." Kennesaw is just north of Atlanta.

The Reuters story went on to report: "Since the Virginia Tech shootings, some conservative U.S. talk show hosts have rejected attempts to link the massacre to the availability of guns, arguing that had students been allowed to carry weapons on campus someone might have been able to shoot the killer."

Virginia Tech, like many of the nation's schools and college campuses, is a so-called "gun-free zone," which Second Amendment supporters say invites gun violence – especially from disturbed individuals seeking to kill as many victims as possible.

Cho Seung-Hui murdered 32 and wounded another 15 before turning his gun on himself.
 Montreal_Guy

Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 2129
view profile
History
gun control in the usa
Posted: 7/27/2008 4:40:55 PM
Re Kennesaw , Georgia ?

There are other forces at work there, aside from guns.


Demographics

As of the census of 2000, there were 21,675 people, 8,099 households, and 5,782 families residing in the city. The population density was 2,568.3 people per square mile (991.6/km²). There were 8,670 housing units at an average density of 1,027.3/sq mi (396.6/km²). The racial makeup of the city was 81.97% White, 1.90% Black, 5.22% Native American, 2.91% Asian, 0.02% Pacific Islander, 2.54% from other races, and 2.45% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 6.20% of the population.

There were 8,099 households out of which 40.4% had children under the age of 18 living with them, 57.7% were married couples living together, 10.3% had a female householder with no husband present, and 28.6% were non-families. 22.2% of all households were made up of individuals and 3.5% had someone living alone who was 65 years of age or older. The average household size was 2.65 and the average family size was 3.12.

In the city the population was spread out with 27.7% under the age of 18, 7.3% from 18 to 24, 42.1% from 25 to 44, 17.1% from 45 to 64, and 5.8% who were 65 years of age or older. The median age was 32 years. For every 100 females there were 95.6 males. For every 100 females age 18 and over, there were 91.4 males.

Personal Income

The median income for a household in the city was $60,404 and the median income for a family was $67,778. Males had a median income of $45,253 versus $33,660 for females. The per capita income for the city was $24,757. About 3.1% of families and 4.5% of the population were below the poverty line, including 4.8% of those under age 18 and 12.5% of those age 65 or over.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kennesaw,_Georgia


When you have a population that's 95.5 % above the poverty level, with low population density, you wouldn't expect to see a lot of crime typically.

A population density of 2,568.3 /sq. mile compares rather well with New York (23,700), or Chicago (12,300) .

(1990 figures)

http://www.census.gov/population/www/documentation/twps0027/twps0027.html

Compare the poverty levels in those two cities to Kennesaw, and it will also do very well.

New York City ( 19-23 %)
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/14/nyregion/14poverty.html

Chicago ( 21 %)

http://64.233.169.104/search?
q=cache:ovQpe-o_XHEJ:www.heartlandalliance.org/maip/documents/
ChicagoSupplement2007FINAL_002.pdf+poverty+
level+in+Chicago&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=ca

Compared to major US cities, Kennesaw is kind of Mayberry, R.F.D.

Canada, unarmed, is still safer than Kennesaw armed - for perhaps some of the same demographic reasons, plus it's gun control laws, and cultural filters towards violence.

Simply citing firearm ownership as being the key to crime reduction overlooks all these secondary factors that also impact on crime rates, and is overly simplistic.
 pogoing

Joined: 7/17/2008
Msg: 2130
gun control in the usa
Posted: 7/27/2008 4:55:03 PM
I work for the government and some insiders have told me if you have any guns to buy all the ammo you can for them. He said in the coming years the ammo is going to start having a primer that can go out of date. Which means after so long the shell isnt going to fire. He didnt tell me how long the primer would last for?

Anyone else heard anything else about this?
 bigshrek

Joined: 11/15/2007
Msg: 2131
view profile
History
gun control in the usa
Posted: 7/27/2008 5:05:52 PM
Heh, they've been using those primers in .25 & .32 Caliber weapons for years...it's why they have a shelf life...about 10 years.

Those who reload their own brass have little to worry about on this issue...www.dillonprecision.com

What you should really worry about is the law they're trying to pass in California that all ammo must be laser-etched with a serial number...all that means is that the criminals will get their ammo from Mexico...and the law-abiding citizens will be screwed yet again.

--------------------------------------------------------

The thing about Kennessaw, a lot of the crime was transient...meaning from people who didn't live there...after the law passed, few criminals wanted to even set foot in Kennessaw, which helped solve their problem. As was noted, the crime rate dropped drastically.

It's like certain suburbs of NW Fla...there are 5 small towns surrounding Pensacola which are almost sedentary in nature, the only thing they do have to worry about is transient crime...and those suburbs are well-known for having high amounts of gun owners...and VERY low crime. Their biggest problems are spousal abuse and speeders...anything else is quickly either dealt with by police, or less nicely by homeowners...either way, most smart crooks stay out of those areas. In one, a man found a burglar in his home, pulled his pistol, shot the burglar in the arm...he ran, the homeowner followed, pursuing for several Blocks, where he finally cornered the burglar again, and emptied the gun into him. The DA tried to have the guy charged, but the grand jury came back with No Prosecution. Civil suit was filed by the family of the burglar, jury came back and charged the family with the damage done to the homeowner's residence by the burglar. Nice, quiet place to live, eh?? THAT is Law & Order.



 iamjumbo

Joined: 11/6/2007
Msg: 2132
view profile
History
gun control in the usa
Posted: 7/27/2008 5:20:02 PM
There are other forces at work there, aside from guns.



Demographics

As of the census of 2000, there were 21,675 people, 8,099 households, and 5,782 families residing in the city. The population density was 2,568.3 people per square mile (991.6/km²). There were 8,670 housing units at an average density of 1,027.3/sq mi (396.6/km²). The racial makeup of the city was 81.97% White, 1.90% Black, 5.22% Native American, 2.91% Asian, 0.02% Pacific Islander, 2.54% from other races, and 2.45% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 6.20% of the population.

There were 8,099 households out of which 40.4% had children under the age of 18 living with them, 57.7% were married couples living together, 10.3% had a female householder with no husband present, and 28.6% were non-families. 22.2% of all households were made up of individuals and 3.5% had someone living alone who was 65 years of age or older. The average household size was 2.65 and the average family size was 3.12.

In the city the population was spread out with 27.7% under the age of 18, 7.3% from 18 to 24, 42.1% from 25 to 44, 17.1% from 45 to 64, and 5.8% who were 65 years of age or older. The median age was 32 years. For every 100 females there were 95.6 males. For every 100 females age 18 and over, there were 91.4 males.

Personal Income

The median income for a household in the city was $60,404 and the median income for a family was $67,778. Males had a median income of $45,253 versus $33,660 for females. The per capita income for the city was $24,757. About 3.1% of families and 4.5% of the population were below the poverty line, including 4.8% of those under age 18 and 12.5% of those age 65 or over.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kennesaw,_Georgia


When you have a population that's 95.5 % above the poverty level, with low population density, you wouldn't expect to see a lot of crime typically.

A population density of 2,568.3 /sq. mile compares rather well with New York (23,700), or Chicago (12,300) .

(1990 figures)

http://www.census.gov/population/www/documentation/twps0027/twps0027.html

Compare the poverty levels in those two cities to Kennesaw, and it will also do very well.

New York City ( 19-23 %)
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/14/nyregion/14poverty.html

Chicago ( 21 %)

http://64.233.169.104/search?
q=cache:ovQpe-o_XHEJ:www.heartlandalliance.org/maip/documents/
ChicagoSupplement2007FINAL_002.pdf+poverty+
level+in+Chicago&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=ca

Compared to major US cities, Kennesaw is kind of Mayberry, R.F.D.

Canada, unarmed, is still safer than Kennesaw armed - for perhaps some of the same demographic reasons, plus it's gun control laws, and cultural filters towards violence.

talk about specious and totally irrelevant BS, with a capital B. totally aside from the abject stupidity of there being some social cause of crime, NO comparison of anywhere on earth has any merit whatsoever. in the first place, the ONLY thing that change between the higher crime rate and the lower one was the mandatory ownership of a gun. obviously, everyone having a gun is the ONLY reason that the crime rate went down, since there were NO other factors involved.
 Lostcauz

Joined: 11/22/2007
Msg: 2133
view profile
History
gun control in the usa
Posted: 7/28/2008 6:03:29 PM

When you have a population that's 95.5 % above the poverty level, with low population density, you wouldn't expect to see a lot of crime typically.

A population density of 2,568.3 /sq. mile compares rather well with New York (23,700), or Chicago (12,300) .

(1990 figures)

http://www.census.gov/population/www/documentation/twps0027/twps0027.html

Compare the poverty levels in those two cities to Kennesaw, and it will also do very well.

New York City ( 19-23 %)
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/14/nyregion/14poverty.html

Chicago ( 21 %)

http://64.233.169.104/search?
q=cache:ovQpe-o_XHEJ:www.heartlandalliance.org/maip/documents/
ChicagoSupplement2007FINAL_002.pdf+poverty+
level+in+Chicago&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=ca

Compared to major US cities, Kennesaw is kind of Mayberry, R.F.D.

Canada, unarmed, is still safer than Kennesaw armed - for perhaps some of the same demographic reasons, plus it's gun control laws, and cultural filters towards violence.

Simply citing firearm ownership as being the key to crime reduction overlooks all these secondary factors that also impact on crime rates, and is overly simplistic.


Ostensibly, this is a valid argument, supported by solid documentation, and is well presented. However, having been to Kennesaw, while referred to as being "just North of Atlanta", is, in fact, a part of the Atlanta Metroplex, as are a lot of other small cities, that have been swallowed up by Atlanta's explosive growth.

Having been to Kennesaw, I know that unless you are looking specifically for city limit signs, I was, and didn't see any, one would not know when they left Atlanta, and entered Kennesaw; it's all one jumbled mass of city.

While there may be more factors to be considered where one city is concerned, I have my doubts that such arguments could be supported where whole states, and/or countries, are concerned. Florida, Texas, Arizona, Alabama, Georgia, and South Carolina, all have populace areas within them, and all have "Will Issue" laws concerning the concealed carry of firearms. Florida was the first state to pass the Will Issue law, and there were screams of blood in the streets, from drunken fools having shootouts at high noon on main street.

As best I can recall, Florida has enjoyed a declining crime rate, despite growth in population, ever since the Will Issue law was passed.

I have personal experience where the Texas ban on those other than Licensed Peace Officers carrying handguns is concerned. The only thing the Will Issue law did in Texas, was make legal, what people had been doing for the 100 years the ban was in effect. Funny thing, Texas didn't have an exhorbitantly high rate of shootouts at high noon on main street either. But, ever since the Will Issue law was passed, and the affirmative defense for killing someone who has broken into one's home, crime has been on the decline.

I doubt that the declining crime rates in these states is because ALL of Florida, and ALL of Texas, are like Mayberry RFD.
 bigshrek

Joined: 11/15/2007
Msg: 2134
view profile
History
gun control in the usa
Posted: 7/29/2008 7:53:39 AM
California & New Jersey are enjoying rising crime rates. In a few decades California will be part of Mexico again, so they don't really count.

Open Carry & Concealed Carry states are receiveing the benefits of armed citizens...crime is dropping.

Criminals should be dealt with in the harshest, most FINAL manner possible. I'm all for bringing back the Guilliotine and using it and only giving ONE appeal to those charged with Capital Crimes.
 iamjumbo

Joined: 11/6/2007
Msg: 2135
view profile
History
gun control in the usa
Posted: 7/29/2008 4:45:42 PM
the bottom line is that NO intelligent person will try to claim that an armed citizenry doesn't lower the crime rate, significantly.
nonetheless, whether it did or not, it does result in more dead thieves and other garbage, and that, in and of itself, makes it the ONLY morally proper way to be
 just forums

Joined: 5/25/2008
Msg: 2136
gun control in the usa
Posted: 7/30/2008 6:07:38 AM
Just in:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080730/ap_on_re_us/repealing_gun_bans

MORTON GROVE, Ill. - In 1981, this quiet northern Chicago suburb made history by becoming the first municipality in the nation to ban the possession of handguns............
 Montreal_Guy

Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 2137
view profile
History
gun control in the usa
Posted: 7/30/2008 8:41:52 AM
Well, again from this Canadian perspective, it seems a bit confusing.

It seems that the presence of guns scares away criminals, if we are to believe what many are claiming here. If that were the case, then areas with high numbers of legal guns in the hands of citizens would be far safer than one's without such numbers.

That seems not to be the case, and I've provided examples of states like Texas (death penalty, easy gun possession, quite open rules to use them against criminals legally, more prisons and prisoners per capita, etc) that are far more dangerous than any place in Canada is in regards to crime.

These criminals, who seem to think and act logically, also don't seem to have much difficulty robbing places like convenience stores or banks - or other places where armed response (by store owners or guards/police) seems not to deter them.

Believe it or not, criminals actually try to hold up guns stores......rather rarely succeeding I might add, but it's something that should not occur.....if gun's reduced/eliminated the threat of crime to citizens:


Two gunmen holding up a gun store taking dozens of handguns

11/14/2007 Collinsville , Va
Two men came into the gun shop armed with handguns while one stood outside.

They forced the clerk to the floor and handcuffed him.

The robbers then filled backpacks they were carrying full of handguns from the store.

In all, police believe at least 50 handguns were stolen, worth between $40,000 and $50,000.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b12_1195134419


Arrests in Riverside gun store robbery
Riverside, CA – Riverside Police have arrested three suspects in the January 28
armed robbery of a Riverside gun store. Some of the stolen weapons have been
recovered at this point. Investigation continues.

On Monday, January 28, 2008, at approximately 6:15 p.m., employees reported that
four armed men robbed the Centerfire Firearms store in the 3500-block of Central
Avenue in Riverside.

At 6:06 p.m., the four suspects rushed into the store and ordered everyone to lay on
the floor. The suspects were armed with handguns and had their faces concealed.
Three customers and three employees were in the store at the time of the robbery.
None of them were injured during the hold-up. The suspects stole wallets from the
customers and workers, and removed approximately 50 handguns from the display
cases. They fled the store and ran to a waiting car.

http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:tUqLdjr7xJwJ:
www.riversideca.gov/rpd/press/jan31a08.pdf+Hold
+up+at+gun+store&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=33&gl=ca



A north-side gun store was robbed Thursday afternoon with the assailant making off with cash, several firearms and a vehicle that belonged to an employee of the business.

Topeka police and Shawnee County sheriff's officers responded at about 3:30 p.m. to J.M. Co., 3030 N.W. Topeka Blvd., the site of the robbery.

The business is on the south side of a one-story white brick building located west across the parking lot from a Falley's supermarket.

An employee reported the robber entered the business and was able to obtain a handgun, said police Lt. Dean McWilliams. The robber then demanded money, firearms and the keys to an employee's vehicle.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4179/is_20071109/ai_n21101615

Two Arrested in Gun Store Robbery
posted 10:42 pm Thu December 06, 2007 - Henry Co., VA

They got away with dozens of guns last month, now, police think they have the two robbers behind bars. Two men ran into the Southern Gun Store in Henry County, pointing guns of their own and grabbing 74 others. After weeks of investigating, ATF agents in Maryland arrested 22-year-old Ronald Ganeous and 23-year-old Timothy Jackson, Jr. Police there had found seven of the stolen guns, they say that led them to Ganeous and Jackson.

Both men are in federal custody.--

http://www.wset.com/news/stories/1207/478556.html


Now, while realizing that the actual concept of deciding to try and execute a hold-up on ANY gun store.....especially in the USA......strikes me as being perhaps reasonable proof that Darwin was indeed wrong about evolution....... it does bring about another aspect of this discussion of gun ownership and crime reduction debate.

Criminals do not typically act rationally, and I've worked in the business of security long enough to tell you anyone that HAS worked in this business has example after example of that.

If a criminal will stage a hold up in a gun store, or rob a bank with armed guards......that 38 in your pocket (that you may or may not have) won't deter him.

Criminals don't expect to get caught, they always think they will be the exception. People still shoplift in commercial stores with high level security systems, embezzle money from places that tend to keep very good track of it (like banks), and this goes on all the time.

Why ?

Because they tend to be impulsive, sometimes not very bright, drugged/drunk, and rather impressed with their own ability to commit crime - or all of the above.
 iamjumbo

Joined: 11/6/2007
Msg: 2138
view profile
History
gun control in the usa
Posted: 7/30/2008 2:09:23 PM
(quote)Criminals don't expect to get caught, they always think they will be the exception. People still shoplift in commercial stores with high level security systems, embezzle money from places that tend to keep very good track of it (like banks), and this goes on all the time.

Why ?

Because they tend to be impulsive, sometimes not very bright, drugged/drunk, and rather )impressed with their own ability to commit crime - or all of the above.(/quote)

that much is perfectly true. the rest is not.
in the first place, you cannot compare the u.s. to any other country in the world. there is no other country in the world like the u.s., politically, socially, or any other way.
the reality is that, not only do fewer criminals choose to be stupid enough to rob those they know to be armed, of those that do, more end up dead. a dead thief eliminates a hundred burglaries and robberies a year.
anytime that a criminal dies, that is good crime prevention
 Lostcauz

Joined: 11/22/2007
Msg: 2139
view profile
History
gun control in the usa
Posted: 7/30/2008 3:22:41 PM

It seems that the presence of guns scares away criminals, if we are to believe what many are claiming here. If that were the case, then areas with high numbers of legal guns in the hands of citizens would be far safer than one's without such numbers.

I don't use internet search results to support my statements here; I much prefer real life experience, my own, and that of others I know. Experience tells me that when criminals know, for fact, that there is a gun in a home, on someone's person, or in a business, criminals (generally speaking) do not attempt to perpetrate crimes in those places, or upon those persons.

As I have stated before, Florida was the first state in the US to pass the Will Issue law. To the best of my knowledge, Florida has enjoyed a declining crime rate ever since.

There is one state in the US that has never had a law against the open, or (eee gad) concealed, carry of a handgun. To the best of my knowledge, Vermont has a rather low crime rate.


That seems not to be the case, and I've provided examples of states like Texas (death penalty, easy gun possession, quite open rules to use them against criminals legally, more prisons and prisoners per capita, etc) that are far more dangerous than any place in Canada is in regards to crime.


For nearly 100 years, Texas had an outright ban on the concealed carry of a handgun by anyone, other than a licensed, working Peace Officer. It has only been in recent years that private citizens have been to obtain permits to carry handguns concealed in Texas. It was only last year, or two years ago, that Texans were given the affirmative defense to prosection, and protection from civil liability, in the lawful use of deadly force.

Give the concealed carry law, and the protection from civil liability, nearly 100 years; like the concealed carry ban in Texas had. My guess is that the crime rate, and the prison population, will both be less than half of what they are today.


Believe it or not, criminals actually try to hold up guns stores......rather rarely succeeding I might add, but it's something that should not occur.....if gun's reduced/eliminated the threat of crime to citizens.


As has been previously stated in this forum, ad nauseum, a gun, in and of itself, can do nothing. A gun must be manipulated in some way, by a human being, for the gun to do anything. It's not the presence of a gun, that deters anyone from committing a crime, including robbing a gun store. It's the presence a human being with a gun, that is capable of using that gun to stop a criminal from perpetrating his/her intended crime, that deters criminal activity.

Just about every gun store I have ever been in has had at least one, if not more, armed clerks. I don't recall any of those gun stores ever being robbed, or shoplifted.

Two of the three the cited articles about gun stores being robbed came from California, and Virginia, two states with rather strict laws of gun control. No stories from Florida, Arizona, or Texas, about people robbing gun stores; and actually getting away, alive.


If a criminal will stage a hold up in a gun store, or rob a bank with armed guards......that 38 in your pocket (that you may or may not have) won't deter him.

This is absolutely true. However, that concealed handgun, coupled with the mindset, and the ability to use it effectively, to stop a crime from being committed, will stop a criminal; graveyard dead in most cases. The fact that a crime was stopped, or prevented, because a private citizen had a concealed weapon, will ring LOUDLY throughout the criminal community. This I know from personal experience.


Criminals don't expect to get caught, they always think they will be the exception. People still shoplift in commercial stores with high level security systems, embezzle money from places that tend to keep very good track of it (like banks), and this goes on all the time.

Why ?

Because they tend to be impulsive, sometimes not very bright, drugged/drunk, and rather impressed with their own ability to commit crime - or all of the above.


Criminals, good ones anyway, also time their activities, so as to escape before Police, with their guns, arrive. Thus, by the time someone with a gun, and the mindset, and the ability to use it effectively, gets to the scene of the crime, the criminals are already gone.

In the area where I used to live, I had an encounter with a criminal that ended in his being arrested. Following his arrest, he made it clear that "his boys" would be back to see me and get even for my stopping him from stealing my car.

It was only AFTER I made it clear to this criminal's "boys" that I had a gun, as well as the mindset, and ability to effectively make them graveyard dead, that they decided to pursue their criminal activities elsewhere.

The area I live in now, many people don't lock their doors to their houses, and often leave the keys to their cars in the ignition, and think nothing of it. I know doing these things isn't smart; but people do these things out of habit. The reason people in this area think nothing of doing these things is because there is no crime in this area; NONE. The only reason anyone has come up with that we have no crime in this area, is because there are so many active, and former, law enforcement personnel who live here. Funny thing, but, there are a LOT of guns in this area, coupled with people who have the mindset, and the ability to effectively make a criminal graveyard dead.

Criminal activity is very much like flowing water; they both follow the path of least resistance. A criminal acting on impulse will very likely change their mind about committing a crime if they are met with real resistance; someone with a gun, who has the mindset, and ability to use it effectively.

I recently discovered someone on my property, and when I went to investigate, I took my shotgun along; under the lid of the tool box in the back of my truck. Handy, but, not visible to anyone I might encounter. I took a gun along not to be threatening, but, as insurance. Insurance is one of those things that you never really give any thought to, until you need it.

Having a gun handy, when faced with a situation jam packed with unknowns, is wonderful insurance to have.

If it makes those of you who don't like guns feel any better, think of a gun like insurance. It's infinitely much better to have it, and not need it; than to need it, and not have it.
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