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| IS it me or should HIP HOP be DEAD YET?
Posted: 8/28/2009 3:31:50 PM | My god, I sure hope so! :P I'm rather sick of hip hop to be honest. Bring back real rock and roll!! I hate turning on the radio and having hear some black guy rapping/singing about how he "banged some ###", or how he had to "tough it out" in the "hoods" or whatever. Seriously, attention seeking much?
Update: Oh and to prove just how lame rap and hip hop music is, here are a couple of super hilarious links.
http://www.cracked.com/article_16158_11-most-unintentionally-gay-rap-lyrics-ever.html
http://www.cracked.com/article_17391_14-more-most-unintentionally-gay-rap-lyrics-ever.html | |
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late™
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Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 502 | |
| IS it me or should HIP HOP be DEAD YET?
Posted: 8/28/2009 3:38:20 PM |
When it does die, however, I can guarantee you that it won't be in favor of rock (historically speaking, rock's time has come and gone) -it'll be in favor of something that you hate even more.
Ha! this is so true, ...especially the sub-text.
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| IS it me or should HIP HOP be DEAD YET?
Posted: 8/28/2009 3:44:13 PM | | lol sure, I'm open to new things. AKWriter, can you give me some examples from rock and rock and roll music that also fits the description I just mentioned? | |
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| IS it me or should HIP HOP be DEAD YET?
Posted: 8/28/2009 5:28:52 PM | | Ok I'll be straight up I am not a big fan of rap, and have been a guitar player most of my life. I studied jazz for 4 years, and still to this day study the art of flamenco guitar. I heard a guy say numetal is dead. That is about as wrong as you can get. The rap they play on the radio sucks big time because it is commercial. I haven't listened to commercial radio in years, and have found a lot better music under the radar. Commercial radio destroys all music if you don't like rap change the station or listen to the stuff that they don't play on the radio. | |
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| IS it me or should HIP HOP be DEAD YET?
Posted: 8/28/2009 6:33:29 PM | "he rap they play on the radio sucks big time because it is commercial."
That's EXACTLY the reason why I don't bother turning on the radio nowadays, only on the rare occasions (i.e. once every week or so) to listen to the news lol. The music you hear on the radio that are "popular" are popular thanks to all the promotions and advertising that giant record companies who represent the artists have forked out for. Offer enough freebies and you'll soon have a big enough fanbase. | |
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late™
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Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 507 | |
| IS it me or should HIP HOP be DEAD YET?
Posted: 8/28/2009 11:56:57 PM |
and have found a lot better music under the radar.
The only place it lives.
Lets hope the "survey" chat posts end and more try at least a little bit, to post contributively to this topic, it's a valid one. | |
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| IS it me or should HIP HOP be DEAD YET?
Posted: 8/29/2009 3:47:06 AM | | Personally I dont understand people who complain about a certain genre of music be it Hip Hop, Rap, country, techno etc. Listen to what you like. There is tons upon tons of music out there. If hip hop is dead for you, its alive for someone else. All music has become disposable. It is extremely difficult to find good music in any genre nowadays. It has always been a fact at least to me that most of the songs that make it to the charts are some of the worst on any given CD ( regardless of genre ). Artists make a record and are simply asked ( demanded of by their record company ) to make some type of crossover hit for radio and voila, you get your Kiss Kiss, umbrella's and Yah trick Yah's. If you are depending on radio for listening tips then good luck. Half the shit I used to play in the club used to drive me banana's. That 10 minute cha cha slide that people cant seem to understand is not cool. | |
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| IS it me or should HIP HOP be DEAD YET?
Posted: 8/29/2009 6:07:19 AM | | I don't think hip hop has taken over the top ten....to me its a pop hip hop. plus you have dozens of other genres who get up in the top ten! | |
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late™
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Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 510 | |
| IS it me or should HIP HOP be DEAD YET?
Posted: 9/1/2009 1:40:54 AM | Personally I dont understand people who complain about a certain genre of music be it Hip Hop, Rap, country, techno etc. Listen to what you like.
It's funny, I keep seeing the whole concept of genre having little do do with an understanding of music and more based on a posture relating to self-image. This leads me to the conclusion that it's a limitation to understanding it, not an aid.
It is extremely difficult to find good music in any genre nowadays.
In reality, there are only two derivative genres to music if you consider the simplest historically definable aspects to; artist repertoire/audience demographic, and derivation/synthesis that resolve to the main idea of "Music".
From this initial divergence comes several identifiable forms; and from them the sub-genres, most of them affected in the last 50 years being more to do with consumer self-image than any definable "Musical" aspect of form.
Consider the apple and the orange, ...they are different, Hell! They come from different trees. But they derive from the same branch of the evolutionary tree, and open to to being defined objectively. Some may prefer one over the other merely by the subjective enjoyment of each just by flavor alone. Also consider the fact that oranges (or apples), vary in quality from one to the next.
Sure, to prefer apples to oranges (or vice versa), is a natural position that won't really have an adverse affect on fruit preference. Where things get sticky is when such a preference becomes exclusive to an individual's scope of "taste", to the point that since they identify with only red apples over all other fruits, they stop eating any other fruit than red apples. It's logical to imply that such opinions of exclusivity lack credibility when compared to those based in the inclusion of all/any fruit based on exploring unique examples of all/any fruit and judging them on their own merits instead of, "I don't like 'red apples' they're all soft and not very sweet."
Just sayin'...
PS. Being a musician doesn't make your point anymore valid.
It can be interminably advantageous in making valid points when combined with an understanding of; historical musicology, ethnomusicology, and systematic musicology if you're actually talking about music.
However, the consumer facets of; perception, attraction/revulsion, peer identification and self-image as the basis of polemic generalizations by genre: Can similarly be understood from the aspects of; sociology, psychology, understanding media/pop culture, etc.
Apples and oranges.
Miles Davis played Hip Hop before he died in the 90s, anybody claiming to be a musician who disses Miles as a musician because of this will lose all credibility in a room full of informed musicians (or well informed consumers for that matter).
Music consumption can be subdivided ad infinitum in regards to genre in ways that have nothing to do with whether any specific example of this subdivision can stand on any musical merits. | |
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| IS it me or should HIP HOP be DEAD YET?
Posted: 9/1/2009 3:00:40 AM | wow,it is cool to see this forum is still going............
I was pretty bitter and jaded when I wrote it ..........4yrs ago
I have mellowed now,but it is interesting to read everyone's opinions
Miles Davis - 'Doo Bop' (1991)
was his last cd,I miss Miles very much | |
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| IS it me or should HIP HOP be DEAD YET?
Posted: 9/1/2009 6:51:25 AM | [post]It can be interminably advantageous in making valid points when combined with an understanding of; historical musicology, ethnomusicology, and systematic musicology if you're actually talking about music. [/post]
Yes it CAN, but the users on this thread seem to be using the fact that they can strum a guitar as a means of having the guts to say that hip-hop doesn't require much talent, rather defending their own turf when this thread isin't even waging a war against it (there own turf of course being their genre preference)
While it's nice that you like metal, jazz or rock, to compare it to Hip-Hop, is like comparing apples to oranges.
With that i'd like to relate hip-hop to a fruit salad, as it takes a bit of each fruit and blends it together into something tasty. | |
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| IS it me or should HIP HOP be DEAD YET?
Posted: 9/1/2009 8:46:03 PM | | I like to listen to or see a "song/video" of a "band" that has excellent pro musicians that have mastered their instruments in their own right and top notch lead and background vocals that write and play songs that make me feel inspired. This is impressive and entertaining and what I consider as music. I don't get any of this, for the most part from hip-hop, and really don't consider it as "music", more of an activity to put down certain people. Given that, I do see some talent there. It would be nice to hear something that excludes the words: hoes, pimps, wheels, and many other negative or meaningless references and vulger words I don't care to hear. Is that possible? If it is, than maybe I could call it music.......Yes I do realize there is some of this out there, but it is very rare and certainly not the norm. | |
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late™
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Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 514 | |
| IS it me or should HIP HOP be DEAD YET?
Posted: 9/2/2009 3:37:31 AM | Yes it CAN, but the users on this thread seem to be using the fact that they can strum a guitar as a means of having the guts to say that hip-hop doesn't require much talent, rather defending their own turf when this thread isin't even waging a war against it (there own turf of course being their genre preference)
Any "musician" who thinks like this in the facet of music I'm employed (session/studio musician), is seen as suffering from the worst kind of musical naiveté. I've never seen anyone with this attitude get a "call back".
I like to listen to or see a "song/video" of a "band" that has excellent pro musicians that have mastered their instruments in their own right and top notch lead and background vocals that write and play songs that make me feel inspired. This is impressive and entertaining and what I consider as music.
This definition excludes instrumental music, either your definition of "music" is flawed, or it is narrow to music's simplest definable forms as to exclude most of the great examples of "good music" regardless of genre.
Is that possible? If it is, than maybe I could call it music.......Yes I do realize there is some of this out there, but it is very rare and certainly not the norm.
Illustrates perfectly, how the denotation of music via "genre" usually acts as more of a barrier to understanding music than an aid. | |
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| IS it me or should HIP HOP be DEAD YET?
Posted: 9/2/2009 8:49:13 PM | I've said it before...crap at yer fingertips...creativity to be found when you're up to your armpits...
Back in 2000, West London’s funky, forward-thinking, experimental hip-hop collective The Herbaliser released their acclaimed double-vinyl album Session 1. Recorded in raw and organic studio jams, these expansive instrumentals marked the group’s evolution from studio boffins to full big-band line-up. The Guardian called the album “sterling proof that this kind of music invariably sounds better played by musicians than by a sampler” while Yahoo described it as an “effortlessly cool, super smooth journey around the set of an unmade Blaxploitation movie.”
My bud stumbled upon these guys...ya they might be called "hip-hop" but they've got some really interesting instrumentals in between their rapping...and from what I'm hearing on their myspace page...they're almost sounding closer to Funkadelic than anything else that might pass for hip hop these days....
While most hip hop can never be compared with the interaction present in a jam session...there's no doubt that it does have at least some artistic merit...and some bands that push the boundaries do give these DJ's a taste of what a good jam session feels like....OK I can only think of one band....Medeski Martin & Wood....unbelievable players that take a little inpiration from all genres.... | |
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| IS it me or should HIP HOP be DEAD YET?
Posted: 9/4/2009 9:06:57 PM | This thread is about hip hop music which is basically computerized music and vocals so lets try to stay on track. I don't recall ever hearing a hip hop instrumental and really don't think I ever will. Music can be as simple as a single player, a single voice, or a single note.
A dog barking is also an eveyday event. Does that mean that if someone decides it's music than I should try to understand and aid in that concept, I don't think so. | |
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| IS it me or should HIP HOP be DEAD YET?
Posted: 9/4/2009 9:20:10 PM |
"a putrid pile of garbage that puts down women, kids, focus on spreading hate, violence, rape, drugs like a cancerous disease." You must have confused the heavy metal mess you love with rap music. There are countless metal as well as mainstream rock songs that glorify violence, drugs and objectify women. Perspective is a great thing to gain, the mind is a terrible thing to waste. Think about it the next time you decide to post.
Funny, you seem to think that death metal = all metal when in fact you are a freaking idiot. I listen to heavy metal, plenty of it and at the very worst it mentions Satan and praising the devil ie Black Sabbath, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, which is by all accounts considered heavy metal. Death metal is much more violent, however at least it doesn't degrade women, do some research before you post moron. | |
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| IS it me or should HIP HOP be DEAD YET?
Posted: 9/4/2009 9:31:10 PM |
The Roots are a BAND. Quest love plays drums,Kamal plays keyboard, Knuckles plays percussion, Captain Kirk plays guitar, Biddle plays bass and "Tuba Gooding Jr." Byson plays sousaphone.
Public Enemy had a huge band. Rolling Stone Magazine ranked Public Enemy number forty-four on its list of the Immortals: 100 Greatest Artists of All Time. Acclaimed Music ranks them the 29th most recommended musical act of all time
Ice T 's group Body Count toured Lallapalooza
Pharell Williams plays drums, piano, keyboards and guitar.
Mos Def plays drums, piano and bass guitar.
Dr. Dre plays keyboard.
Nas plays keyboards and piano.
Kanye West plays keyboards and percussion
Lil Wayne plays guitar most likely much better than the self described "serious musicians" who have posted on this thread so far in dissent.
Kanaan plays Guitar and percussion
The Knux the siblings play multiple instruments (keys, horns, guitar, bass and drums) and produce their own music, they grew up playing Jazz.
BAKYAWD plays the guitar on stage.
Souljah Boy plays drums.
Mannie Fresh plays keyboards.
RJ2 plays keyboards, drums, sax, trumpet, guitar, and violin.
Do I really need to go on? Point is....post like the above quoted are simply based upon nothing more than sheer ignorance.
A further point is that Sinatra was a singer, who didnt play an "instrument".
The difference between Santra and other singers? He had vocal talent, he didn't need some electronic piece of crap to hide the fact that he couldn't sing because in reality he never needed that, but don't tell that to some of the self proclaimed hip hop artists like that fat tub of lard Chris Brown and the dumb whore Rihanna who suck so hard I won't even begin to express how much I loath their disgrace to music. Much like Cher, they proved how worthless they are to music by using vocal modulation in order to sound listenable because they would otherwise sound like pure garbage but instead sound like freaking robots.
Public Enemy and Run DMC have recorded with famous rockers, they get more respect from regular artists because they don't limit themselves to just producing mediocre garbage like 50 Cent and all the other hip hop and rap artists do. Most of the guys you mentioned probably only played decently, it's not hard to lay down the same damn drum beat for every song, and none of them play live. The Gorillaz are a good hip hop/funk group with interesting guitar work as part of their music, but most mainstream stuff that gets radio play is pretty much meaningless in terms of lyrics. Female hip hop singers objectify themselves and give even more reason for men to disrespect them and male hip hop singers blab on about ****es and ho's and their Escalades. | |
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late™
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Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 521 | |
| IS it me or should HIP HOP be DEAD YET?
Posted: 9/4/2009 9:42:33 PM | I don't recall ever hearing a hip hop instrumental and really don't think I ever will.
But, your definition of what is "music" excludes instrumental music anyway, so it's moot.
BTW, aside from Miles Davis' "DooBop" album, there's also Herbie Hancock's seminal "Rockit" replete with turntable scratching.
That's the point, just because someone isn't aware of the cream of a particular crop, doesn't justify being ignorant of the crop.
Funny, you seem to think that death metal = all metal when in fact you are a freaking idiot. I listen to heavy metal, plenty of it and at the very worst it mentions Satan and praising the devil ie Black Sabbath, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, which is by all accounts considered heavy metal. Death metal is much more violent, however at least it doesn't degrade women, do some research before you post moron
Wow, two Flames, you may want to peruse forum rules.
As far as musicality is concerned, "metal" proponents should probably avoid pointing at kettles and calling them black, so much metal is bereft of even the simplest form of triadic chordal harmonics in it's comping to be even called "music".
Genre
A great thing to base ignorance on. | |
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| IS it me or should HIP HOP be DEAD YET?
Posted: 9/4/2009 9:56:57 PM | | At least it takes skill to be a good metal guitar player, but then again there are some awful metal bands out there that are just annoying like Dragonforce (cheesy wankery) and Abnormality (honestly Visions sounds like someone puking into a bucket while hitting tin cans and plastic garbage bins). I am a traditionalist, I prefer older bands of any genre, I don't mind some rap but mainly old material from back in the early days, I actually enjoy Run DMC and Public Enemy, The Roots are a more traditional hip hop group as well despite being modern, however most rap doesn't even stack up. Public Enemy recorded with guitarist Zakk Wylde who has been the on and off again guitarist for former Black Sabbath singer Ozzy Osbourne, Run DMC recorded a rendition of Walk This Way with US rock band Aerosmith. Then again, it's hard to say whether or not I enjoy the traditional rock music because as a genre, rock is very expansive and has so many different branches, blues rock, progressive and psychedelic, alternative, punk rock and whatnot. I know a lot of rock fans love The Beatles or Elvis but I honestly can't stand them, the music is too simple and not energetic enough for me to enjoy. Yeah, they were pioneers but it doesn't mean I like them, in fact I think they are overrated. There is a lot of old rock I can't stand though, it isn't just rap, hip hop and pop music that I dislike. | |
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late™
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Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 523 | |
| IS it me or should HIP HOP be DEAD YET?
Posted: 9/4/2009 10:41:49 PM |
At least it takes skill to be a good metal guitar player
Not really, it's all relative. Most metal players play over an undefined 1/5 dyadic (non)chord structure, there's no necessity to have any harmonic awareness here. Memorization of scales and modes will suffice as what is played over a dyadic comp gets to define the harmonic, ...instead of the other way around. It makes some "metal" seem more of a sport than music.
To say that this requires more skill than a good DJ, means never having tried to do what the DJ does. And even if you have, how do you compare two different skill sets vis a vis "objective quality"? You can't.
Hip Hop has cross-pollinated with musicians of all genres (including some very seminal musicians), that alone should illustrate how value judgements made via genre alone are meaningless and useless. | |
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| IS it me or should HIP HOP be DEAD YET?
Posted: 9/5/2009 12:55:44 AM | I don't recall ever hearing a hip hop instrumental and really don't think I ever will.
That's the most rediculous thing I've ever heard in my life....are you referring to my post? Because I guarantee you they exist....I've heard them with my own ears....
Look up Bill Laswell's "Thunupa" and try to tell me that's not a damn hip hop instrumental....he plays a REAL BASS TOO!
This thread is about hip hop music which is basically computerized music and vocals so lets try to stay on track.
I play bass...a real P-bass plugged into a real amp...my brother plays drums...real Pearl acoustic drums...I'll tell you what...if we wanna come up with a "hip-hop" rhythm section...we're gonna do it...I've even got a buddy who would free style a rap over the damn shit....oh my....we're creating REAL music...REAL hip hop music.....
In fact...when I break outa the basement and catch a gig...I'm gonna lay out a repretoire that goes from ambient, to (psuedo) hard bop jazz, to heavy-f*ckin'-metal, to good ole 12 bar blues to f*ckin' HIP HOP grooves...so I can start tearing down barriers and blow everybodies f*ckin' mind...
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| IS it me or should HIP HOP be DEAD YET?
Posted: 9/5/2009 12:44:44 PM | Hi guys a little note from the original poster to set the record straight..
well
from personally experience whenever a genre of music totally takes over the
top-ten it becomes over saturated and over
Is HIP HOP
going to go away soon?
thoughts?"
was my original post or topic...........since it was done 4years ago ,I feel time has answered my question. Is there still lots of videos with dudes and ladies posing infront of 'bling bling mobiles' ...............yes, but it has declined...........
Is there still fake 'pro tools hits' ?
most definitely
Note about musicianship:
one of my favorite weekly jam sessions to attend was 'the Jazz jam'
where the Jazz college students would jam with some the teachers and other jazzbos
one older gentleman would come up and do beat poetry over jazz/hiphop groove played by a real backing band................AND they were 'killin it'...........awesome
my beef originally was with over produced bling bling videos depicting ' the genre cliches intact'
my question too was with record scratchers..........are they musicians?
ya I guess,they aren't creating music from thin air though ....they need records to do it.....so do I think they are as 'legit' as a cool jazz piano player ......no I don't ,others might that is there opinion,they are welcome to it.
Honestly,it doesn't matter anymore........I am just glad that people have some spare time to make ANY kind of music | |
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