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Garf
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Joined: 4/4/2005
Msg: 26 | |
| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/8/2005 5:59:30 PM |
I have aways thought that capital punishment is such a hypocritical way
of solving the problems, that we dealing with in regards to citizens that are
considered to be a danger to society. How is capital punishment hypocritical?
Regarding sexual crimes against children; For. 100%
I think capital punishment should be execised in Canada for these crimes, if nothing else. | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/8/2005 6:14:15 PM |
How is capital punishment hypocritical? Whether or not you condone executions, the hypocracy isn't escaping you, I know that for sure (I've noticed that you're an intelligent guy.) Do you REALLY need it explained? ~ seriously, recognizing the irony of the situation won't weaken your proposition that it should be used. I promise. | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/8/2005 6:25:47 PM | 1, Should elitism be brought into this conversation sir?
2.Who is talking in terms of "punishment"? Is that what you're all about over there or something then? Capital Punishment is how you end all punishment. (ungowa..punishment!?)
c?
That detention is unpleasant is not the same as an intended punishment such as torture.
Who is the judge of this?
In other words, along with the approved types of citizens we knowingly crank out the ones who become outlaws.
 hahahaha.
;) I got yer canoe. I mean number...cool. (I fully understand..and with..respect)
I suppose I may be guilty of those too. "Outlaws?" Do all of them belong in this talk?
I guess you would know best..I like what you have to say.
But stepping back to look at the issue broadly, it's not so simple
It is if you are not at all involved I bet. (which makes your statement true...you C?)
As a practical incentive, the better job we do raising children, together as a society, the fewer crimes we suffer and the lower the costs of protection, prosecution and containment
I FULLY agree..you C?
If we have no responsibility to each other then law is a matter of negotiated peace
Negotiate? Um....uh..?
But if we do have an obligation to one another, it begins at birth and until we step up the price we pay is to be preyed upon by those we abused and neglected
You're not a very good negotiator. I say "deal" sounds cool.
but on morality, which does not extend beyond our right to protect ourselves.
Apparently by not abusing or neglecting..woudln't ya say that works best? *sigh*c
Feste, I do believe this is the most well-written, clearly articulated, objective, compassionate, insightful posts I've come across. Kudos.
It was well written hu? No mis-communication there at all!!
seriously, recognizing the irony of the situation won't weaken your proposition that it should be used. I promise.
whoa...what a promise to MAKE!! HEAVY promise!! But...*shrugs* who knows. | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/8/2005 6:31:25 PM | @ feste
Totally agree with you feste!! It all boils down to how these people were raised.
Of course some have just got thier "wires crossed" genetically, and in both instances
they are put to death as a result of their mental health. Far too many in today's
society "fall through the cracks" and end up as non-productive members of society.
In order to survive, they reduce themselves to what is believed to be mankinds "scum"...something that needs to be erradicated. Do we really have the
right to play God and decide who deserves to remain in society and who does not?
Now I am REALLY confused...don't know what to think!!  | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/8/2005 6:35:25 PM | Do we really have the
right to play God and decide who deserves to remain in society and who does not?
But sir; we already do!! Are you saying don't jail..anyone?
*shrugs*
That could be fun though!!
Now I am REALLY confused
I'm sure not...right c? O.K; maybe just a tad confused..but hey. | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/8/2005 6:43:10 PM | Totally agree with you feste!! It all boils down to how these people were raised.
Of course some have just got thier "wires crossed" genetically, and in both instances
they are put to death as a result of their mental health. Far too many in today's
society "fall through the cracks" and end up as non-productive members of society.
In order to survive, they reduce themselves to what is believed to be mankinds "scum"...something that needs to be erradicated. Do we really have the
right to play God and decide who deserves to remain in society and who does not? "Madam,"  I understand your point and will not play silly games with you. Point well taken; I don't think it IS our right to decide who lives and who dies. It might feel good at the time, but I'm glad you're confused. Most people are, and without being willing to feel like that, we can't carefully consider all positions, and we can't possibly figure out where we truly stand. Confusion means we're thinking! | |
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daisie
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Joined: 9/22/2004
Msg: 33 | |
| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/8/2005 6:55:16 PM | For it. For it. For it. For it. FFFFFOOOORRRRRRR IIIIITTTTTTT!
Of course I know it is not a perfect system. It's not a perfect world either. If it were a perfect world these **stards wouldn't be committing crimes to begin with. Mistakes will happen with this system, all I can say is we need to do our utmost to try to make sure that doesn't happen. And in the case of members of the "system" intentionally framing the innocent, then those members of the system need to be terminated (and I don't mean fired...I mean terminated) immediately.
The fact is that it costs a lot of tax payer dollars to keep these people lounging around in prisons for god-knows how long. It's supremely ridiculous the amount of money we spend on their no-good worthless asses. I can respect those of you who say that every life has value...and I can see your point. However....and this is what makes it crystal clear to me that they need to go....there are many,many, many good, honest, hard-working people in the country/world who do their best to get ahead or simply survive.
These people are MUUUUUCCCCHHHHHHH more deserving of my tax dollars than are the scum suckers who commit crimes against the innocent. The list is long....but specifically I am thinking of people who are born with handicaps and cannot hold a job, ever, the families of these babies who must turn their home into a virtual hospital to care for their child, the vacations they cannot take because the child's wheelchair won't fit in their car and they can't afford a van, the spouses who must work multiple jobs and never see each other, and can't find/afford a medically qualified nurse/babysitter to care for the kid several times a month so they can have some adult "alone" time together. Sure they get some SSI benefits, but not enough, not nearly. I would MUCH rather my tax dollars go to help these families than to keep some dip-shit, loser, dog turd alive and eating 3 meals a day. No question. | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/8/2005 6:55:26 PM | | Against. Capital punishment is disproportionately appllied to minorities. There is also the possibility that an innocent person may be executed. It is my understanding that is the reason that the Michigan State Constitution was amended to prohibit capital punishment. | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/8/2005 7:17:31 PM | Anybody here see "The Shawshank Redemption"? Read the news about the convicted death row inmates proven innocent and released from prison because of advances in genetics?
One of the main justifications for capital punishment is that this will prevent others from committing the same crimes-hence a deterrent. When executions are sanitized and occur behind closed doors, the deterrent factor in the capital punishment argument becomes moot.
If you're going to have capital punishment, have public executions. | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/8/2005 7:21:43 PM | at what point do we trsut ourselves?
Do we NOT have enough to make sure that we don't f*ck up? Guy..like..how much more do we need?
If you're going to have capital punishment, have public executions
NO.
You must protect..the kids. (those stories are probably not ones most parents would like to deal with..I know "I" wouldn't anyways)
You want to teach your kids the dark side of life early..well...buy horror movies for them then.
I am against this idea.
(just my.02 of course) | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/8/2005 7:23:05 PM | | I have to say I prefer it when the discussion is a bit more real and honest, instead of slipping into the whole black and white crap that pervades much of the threads. Well, I guess a page and a half is worth being grateful for. | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/8/2005 7:27:01 PM | From what I have read, capital punishment does not deter crime.
Also, I believe there is enough merit to use the argument of judicial error in these cases. One innocent death is horrible. Add another one using sanctioned governmental homocide and we have a deeper, more profound tragedy.
Aside from all this, my personal opinion is that it is far harsher a sentence to let a criminal rot in his cell (like Bernardo) for the rest of his life than to kill him and put him out of his self-inflicted misery. Also, what justice is there to euthanizing someone? Lethal injection...wow, what a way to go. Humane, painless (according to some), and completely unlike some of the victims of these murderers.
I don't see it as the ultimate punishment at all. | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/8/2005 7:34:21 PM | frrosty wrote,"NO.
You must protect..the kids"
Uhh don't take'em til there old enough and then if they start down the wrong path what a great way to show them the consequences of f*cking up?
I say this somewhat sarcastically, in a "The Running Man" kinda way.
Babylonia the reason capital punishment isn't a deterent is precisely because it is done behind closed doors and does resemble euthanasia/putting a dog to sleep. | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/8/2005 7:36:43 PM |
~ " The Shawshank Redemption " ..."
!!!! One of my ... All Time... Favorite movies !!!
On topic :
Benn, i don't think public executions would have much deterrence.
.... Not if you look at the countries that do have this.
.......as well as, the persistent notion, ... that They ... will Never ...get caught !
( ~> HUGE part ... of the criminal mentality, ... Regardless ... of penalties. ) | |
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Garf
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Joined: 4/4/2005
Msg: 42 | |
| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/8/2005 7:40:53 PM | I have aways thought that capital punishment is such a hypocritical way of solving the problems, that we dealing with in regards to citizens that are considered to be a danger to society. How is capital punishment hypocritical?
Defined as;
hypocrisy
n 1: an expression of agreement that is not supported by real conviction [syn: lip service] 2: insincerity by virtue of pretending to have qualities or beliefs that you do not really have
If you're hypocritical of anything, it's the sin of killing. That's it though.
Capital punishment is there to prevent criminals from being a plague on society.
There's nothing hypocritical about it.
What would be hypocritical would be to say that murder is a crime, and then allow the murderer to go free.
Child molestors serve their time, their "debt to society"...released, and reoffend. Screw trial, they might get off on an "Artistic merit" claim....makes me puke.
I think if they're caught red-handed...execute without prejudice. No trial, no publicity, no activist groups whining about human rights. Screw the b@stards rights...he gave those up when he touched a child.
ROPE <----cheap, reusable. | |
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feste
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Joined: 8/6/2005
Msg: 43 | |
| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/8/2005 7:47:08 PM | To me it's a no-brainer. Both you and the robber-murderers believe in killing under the right circumstances. In this case, you have the upper hand, and the law on your side. The circumstances match your idea of a correct scenario for the death penalty. I wouldn't lose any sleep over it if I were you.
In my case, being against the death penalty, I would still testify and let the chips fall where they may. The place to make law is the legislature, not the trial, and I wouldn't sabotage the trial to prevent them from being convicted. | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/8/2005 7:51:57 PM | babylonia ... wow, ... my thoughts ... EXACTLY !!!!
( Although, truly, ... i confess, ... i am a tad more cruel.) 
<--------- Sooooo, ... wanted ...Timothy McVeigh..
... locked up for the rest of his pathetic life ... with unremovable wallpaper pics,
. . . of His, " collateral damage ".
~ ~ Loads and Loads ... of cute lil kids smiling right at him for the rest of his loooong life.
~~~ If ? and When ? .. he showed some signs of ...true ...remorse ?
... k, ... we can take down the torture pics.
~ Maybe redecorate, ...that ... tiny, tiny cell . ~  | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/8/2005 7:52:24 PM | Sparkle, thanks for sharing that. In my opinion you won't be sending anyone anywhere; you'll simply be telling the truth, and our system will do what it will. You have very little control over the outcome.
That said, it must be more than nerve-wracking; good luck to you. | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/8/2005 7:58:51 PM | It IS nerve-wracking. I have no choice but to testify and to answer all questions truthfully, which I most certainly will do.
It will be tough to be cross-examined by this guy. We remember each other.
I've spent countless hours with the FBI, the homicide detectives, and the police. I've already been to the preliminary hearing. I've drawn maps. I've sketched the guns.
My conflict is that I DO support the death penalty, but I'm having a hard time reconciling this is my mind because it's personal. I'm not watching it on television. I'm THERE. | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/8/2005 8:01:06 PM | I believe capital punishment should not be used to help deter crime.Its to quick and easy on an offender.
So.......
I believe convicted,100% guilty with a witness child molesters,should suffer in a concrete cell without a bed,chair or light,one glass of water per day and a cracker until dead.
Yea,and I'm a Christain.
Forgive me Lord,but I'm a father too. | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/8/2005 8:09:30 PM | Yow, sparkle. I was recently connected to a murder trial of someone close ~ I was close to the victim ~ and was subpoenaed by the defense but ended up not having to testify, thank GOD. In Maine, we don't have the death penalty. (again, thank god.)
It will be very rough going, but you'll make it through. You've already spent so much time dealing with it that it will likely almost be a relief to testify and end your direct involvement with the ordeal.
How do you feel about the point that you have absolutely no control here? Even if you wanted to, you certainly can't change your story now. (Not that you want to, I"m just saying.) There are a whole bunch of players that have some control now, between lawyers, judge, and jury, but you have very very little. Does that help or hurt your conflict, do you think? | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/8/2005 8:32:30 PM | Nitt...
Even if I could wave a magic wand and suddenly not have to testify, I would still choose to testify. I think where my conflict comes into play is that I am the only person who can identify these guys, without a shadow of a doubt.
I naively asked the DA at the preliminary hearing, that since he didn't put me on the stand then, could that mean I wouldn't have to take the stand at the trial? He looked at me like I was nuts and said "at this point in the process, we never show all our cards. You are my trump card."
It's a heavy weight on my shoulders. I did not personally know the victims, so I don't feel that heated rage that their families feel. I'm horrified at their crimes, I'm pissed that they pointed their guns at me, but I am less than enthusiastic about being the prosecution's "trump card".
I see the posts from people shouting "hell yes! fry 'em! execute 'em publicly! get out the rope!" and I am wondering if they would be so enthusiastic if they were really part of the process. I'm very solemn. You're right...I've got no control, I'll do what I need to do with the hopes of walking away feeling OK about myself and the outcome.
Hell, I'm a tough biatch. I'll be fine.
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/8/2005 8:37:36 PM | No offense to sparkle. I think it's a very courageous thing that she's doing and I hope she testifies bravely as to exactly what she saw. The penalties should not be a consideration in her giving testimony; BUT, I'm against it.
Not because perpetrators of crimes don't deserve it, but because so many times people are framed in murder trials. Many states in the past ten years have had to cut loose half of their death row inmates because DNA evidence proved the person on death row couldn't have committed the murder.
In the OJ trial, the police even used DNA to try to frame him and if it hadn't been for his lawyers discovering that about 1/3 of the blood taken from OJ was missing, the blood at the murder scene was made from blood spilled by someone standing still and his car hadn't been quarentined, he would have been convicted.
Police act like they KNOW who did it and they really don't. They try to frame people, which deters crime, but most people don't know that justice is many times TOTALLY BLIND.
To have the death penalty means making the law a criminal. We shouldn't do it. | |
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