bobby7
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Joined: 3/22/2006
Msg: 526 | |
| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 9/17/2006 9:49:18 PM | To the lady who was offended, I humbly apologise..I respect your opinion, I just disagree with it..
Grog.. Clifford Robert Olson killed Dawn Marie Court, who was a sweet young lady, and my sons' favourite baby sitter..
Her brother, Don, a football player who I enjoyed playing against, and his mother have both said that they are quite content to see him rot in jail..
He will never kill again, nor walk the streets, a free man..
To me..That is a fit and just punishment..And a pretty good deterrent.. | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 9/17/2006 10:22:50 PM |
By keeping them on our streets we are perpetuating the black markets of child porn, and child exploitation, and all other forms of abuse.
What the hell are you talking about? Keeping them on our streets?
Since when does letting them live mean letting them go? I support any extentions you may wish for the life sentences- I personally always felt it ironic that Life Sentences are not carried to the end of the persons life- What I oppose is killing them. I feel Killing is wrong, just as rape and child molestation is wrong, and no person has the right to do these things to people, be they man or Government.
Just because I believe that killing is wrong doesn't mean I support child rape.
Don't judge anyone for their personal opinion unless you know why they have come to it.
But.....aren't you doing that right now? Aren't you questioning our opinions without understanding why we feel the way we do?
You'd be amazed how many people go from being anti-death to pro capital punishment in the blink of an eye, usually going through a "non-murder" crime so heinous that the opinion changes instantaneously.
And that flash you'll see isn't about freedoms, or rights, or even morals- its about vengence.
And vengence is wrong. Its the belief that someone owes you blood- there is no way to justify that. Its wrong.
It did not ask about whose opinion you felt was right it just asked how we felt.
You didn't seriously think you can express an opinion so contraversial as this, and expect people not want to question the issue? Are you offended that people choose to question your beliefs- to pick your brain? Is it wrong for you to question it yourself? | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 9/17/2006 11:05:55 PM | What kind of Discipline? Like our jails that are not doing anything to rehabilitate our criminals? Sorry but I firmly believe that there are non-murder crimes that are worthy of capital punishment and only someone who has endured a crime as such would know. Don't judge anyone for their personal opinion unless you know why they have come to it. Peoples attitudes change all right. You'd be amazed how many people go from being anti-death to pro capital punishment in the blink of an eye, usually going through a "non-murder" crime so heinous that the opinion changes instantaneously. Not all murder crimes are the ones you need to protect your loved ones from and unfortunately the help you keep saying these people need is not always available or effective so...*shrugs*
What kind of message would killing them bring to others and especially to younger people? It never makes sense to take another person's life, even though is some cases it may be tempting and even I would be tempted to do something to those Singapore people that hung that kid for drugs. BUT there has to be other ways to deal with this. Fort example, drug addicts and alcoholics needs re-hap, other people need all dorts of help and keep them in a pshyciatric ward and so forth. The ones that commit cold hearted murders, just keep them in jail or like I said, give them a beating and embarrass them or do whatever , so they will get the message and when they walk out of that place where you kicked their butts, they will have a different respect for people, and live and of things in general. But I would still keep them in jail. Again as for people who have committed non-murder crimes, many of those crimes wil result either in jail, or psychyatric ward or both. But not murder!!
I can understand one feeling upset and wishing for revenge but I think when people calm down they will realize that either putting them in jail or psychiatric ward would be more fitting, or the view I suggested.
I just don't beleive that we should be killing people for crimes that are of a non murder or non-murder causing variety when we let people who commit adultaury, polygamy,voddoo, gossip/potentially damaging anothers reputation ect , letting those people get away with it completely without even paying a fine.....is just not right and doesn't add up.
I would say have an appropriate consequence for the appropriate crime. In the worst crime, (cold blooded pre meditated murder) I would recommened keeping them in jail for life and even beating them up a few times. Just not killing though.
By the way , I am not judging you either, I feel sorry for you with whatever you endured and I am sure it is hard on you. For someone who experianced a murder crime, for those people or person,I can probably UNDERSTAND someone wanting to kill the killer, I can understand that. I still would not feel it right to have them killed, thats just me though. | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 9/18/2006 12:48:44 AM | "What the hell are you talking about? Keeping them on our streets?
Since when does letting them live mean letting them go? I support any extentions you may wish for the life sentences- I personally always felt it ironic that Life Sentences are not carried to the end of the persons life- What I oppose is killing them. I feel Killing is wrong, just as rape and child molestation is wrong, and no person has the right to do these things to people, be they man or Government.
Just because I believe that killing is wrong doesn't mean I support child rape."
And how many pedophiles do you see spending their whole lives in jail? I don't have a problem with you being opposed to killing them. You are entitled to how you feel. And in no way shape or form would I have taken that as you being in support of child rape so please don't get me wrong.
"But.....aren't you doing that right now? Aren't you questioning our opinions without understanding why we feel the way we do?"
No not at all. Never once in any of what I said did I say you or anyone else was wrong for how you felt. I never questioned your opinions I only stated my own and stated in a round about way why. I did not single anyone out at all, but thanks anyways.
"And that flash you'll see isn't about freedoms, or rights, or even morals- its about vengence.
And vengence is wrong. Its the belief that someone owes you blood- there is no way to justify that. Its wrong."
It isn't about vengeance when it is someone who has repeatedly done it and continues to do so ruining innocent lives over and over again and is constantly terrorizing the family he has victimized, then it is about self-preservation. It may be a fine line but there is a difference.
"You didn't seriously think you can express an opinion so contraversial as this, and expect people not want to question the issue? Are you offended that people choose to question your beliefs- to pick your brain? Is it wrong for you to question it yourself?"
I do not think that at all. I understand and completely agree with someone questioning me and my beliefs....However, I believe it should be done in an appropriate and respectful manner
from one person to another. I do question it and have, trust me I have had personal, first hand experience with the struggle for the answer to that question and whether my motives were for self-preservation or revenge. When a personal mishap first happened, I had every intention of killing the person who did it, but when my room-mate found me outside with the baseball bat and called the police it went through the courts instead. At that moment it was all about revenge and yes that was wrong, however as time went on and he was turned out into the street by a system who failed me (he was a repeat offender), and then does it again and you know he is looking for you......Well I will say if he shows up at my door ever, the police will be phoned only to pick up the body and in no way shape or form will I ever agree that it was anything but self-preservation. However, I do not belittle or demean anyone who may disagree with me about it. I just feel that the forums are here for healthy debate not flaming, there is a difference there too. Question away, just please be respectful, 
Bobby-thank you very much for your apology, I know I may have taken it a little too sensitively but it is something I feel passionate about and get a little defensive. I really mean no offense by my opinion and really do value all of the opinions on here including the ones contrary to mine. Thank you. | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 9/18/2006 2:47:44 PM | I am against it. If even one innocent person is executed it's not worth it and we all know lots of innocent people have been executed in the USA and around the world.
The problem is that lawyers, cops, politicians are under tremendous pressure to get a conviction and bad things happen. | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 9/19/2006 5:52:19 PM | Capital punishment can be a very persuasive tool in negoitiating information about victims from the guilty party.
Green River case is one such example. Information about victims, where they were buried etc, was obtained by the threat of capital punishment. All those families can now have the peace from being able to bury their daughters . Good one with this case, was he also did one in another state that was not included in the deal, so he still will get the needle.
When physical evidence proves beyond all doubt, and the crime is of a brutal, sexual, or pedophile nature. I support it.
My biggest concern is the numerous cases of death row inmates who have been freed after DNA testing proved their innocence.
Far too many of them, a higher standard of proof of guilt needs to be established to avoid this. | |
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bobby7
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Joined: 3/22/2006
Msg: 534 | |
| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 9/19/2006 7:13:57 PM | "If your mutt crapped on my lawn i'd have a crowbar for you AND your stinkin' dog."
Not to worry, BV..My dog has been taught to avoid polluted areas.. | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 9/20/2006 11:38:40 AM | Has anyone witnessed an execution? I saw three on a viedo. Which bring me to this thought
  What would be your final meal request? Yum I would have a steak, lobster, french fries, hamburger, fish and chips, apple pie, ice cream and a quart of coke.
Lol I wouldn't have to worry about weight gain or calories | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 10/9/2006 7:39:13 AM | My final meal request? Something yummy -- bound and gagged, preferably. I would add that a hood would be a nice adornment, but that may make me look pro-capital punishment!  | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 10/9/2006 8:00:48 AM | | I think that we could all learn something from the Amish. Okay, I'm Buddhist, but what I saw this past week was the greatest example of true Christian spirit I have ever seen. I was truly impressed and moved. | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 10/10/2006 7:31:51 AM | | Absolutely not. Too many people have been executed for crimes they did not commit. I don't go along with the theory that police don't arrest those who are innocent; every once in a while, someone gets picked up by mistake. The death penalty eliminates any chance of correcting those mistakes. | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 10/10/2006 7:38:57 AM | John Grisham's novel "Innocent Man" is coming out this week. It's a true story about a man who was found "guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt" in a court of law was discovered to be innocent only five days before his scheduled execution date; due to DNA evidence found at the scene of the crime which proved he couldn't have been the rapist/murderer.
They also discovered the murderer/rapist IS the person who was the star eyewitness for the prosecution.
If you still think the death penalty is acceptable, maybe you should ask: "Who's the criminal when the wrong person dies?" | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 10/10/2006 10:21:39 AM | | I am fundementally opposed to killing anyone. Which should be good news to some on this site. I would personally rather be executed than spend the rest of my life in prison. To me life without parole is a worse punishment. Life in prison can be reversed if the person is later found to be onnocent. It actually cost more to execute someone than to house them for the rest of their natural life. I don't have any sympathy for these people facing execution, I just don't feel that is any better for the State to murder than it is for an individual. | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 11/21/2006 9:29:46 PM | | Too many people have been executed for crimes they didn't commit? Tell me, just how many innocent unborn babies have been executed and they didn't commit any crimes. People who don't believe in the death penality but think it's ok to murder innocent babies are totally screwed up. | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 11/27/2006 10:38:27 AM | Capital punishment should be reserved for acts which are crimes against humanity itself, such as mass murder.
For the vast majority of heinous crimes I think life without possibility of parole in a maximum security prison is a just punishment. | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 11/27/2006 11:02:47 AM | I'm all for it.
Everyone in the Capitol should be punished.
PS. 'Pro-Life' people who are for the taking of a human life are similar to those who frown on Native Arctic tribes killing seals but have 46 pairs of leather shoes in their closet. They don't mind killing, so long as what is being murdered isn't cute. | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 11/27/2006 11:09:52 AM | | I think Dunrich has a point, a higher standard of proof is needed. But once that standard is reached they ride the needle. | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 11/27/2006 11:57:51 AM | There wouldn't be a need or want of capital punishment if LIFE in prison meant just that... LIFE! But knowing that alot of these scumbag murderers can and more than likely will get out of jail in there lifetime, just makes capital punishment sound alot better than jail.
If this person commits a cold, hard murder with absoute intent and no and goes to jail for 25 years and then is let out... what possible contribution will this person have on society... and after being around other criminals, he can't possibly walk the streets with a "fun loving" attitude. I say if they are worthless human beings before they entered prison, then thats what they'll be when they get out... so why not just free up space in the prisons and save tax payers alot of money and make our streets that much safer in the long run... give the person there last meal and get it over with.
just my opinion... | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 11/27/2006 1:03:11 PM | | In many States, there is a sentence called life without parole. It can be imposed. Most prison systems don't want that as they just end up with a bunch of old guys with all kinds of medical problems like the rest of us. While it is hard for me to get worked up over the average guy on death row, I still think we should not put them to death. There is just something wrong with the state killing you for killing someone else. And what if the man is innocent? Being convicted does not necessarily mean guilty. | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 11/27/2006 1:34:38 PM | Tell me about a "higher standard of proof" after the US lied to the whole world to start a war that killed hundreds of thousands of people.
As if we could enforce such a standard if it existed?
Gimme a break.
If we want to stop innocent people from being murdered, we have to cut them off at the knees; make it so there's no way anyone gets killed by the government: period.
In 2002, "Operation Innocence" had it's 100th death row inmate set free because DNA evidence proved they couldn't have been guilty of the murder they were convicted of.
Human beings make mistakes, law enforcement has a corruption factor, people BLAME the police if they don't catch "somebody".
If you're for the death penalty for ANY reason, you should ask yourself: "We know innocent people will die for this. Would I be willing to die for it if I were wrong?"
That's the real issue here, even if you're arguing "an eye for an eye". What about the eye of someone who's innocent and suffers the death penalty? | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 11/27/2006 4:48:59 PM | Hey, all:
For me, the issue is extremely simple: capital punishment is an act by society of institutionalized, revenge-driven, rationalized, ritualized conspiracy to commit murder--murder by consensus is still murder.
None of the sophistry and rhetoric and personal tragedy can change this stark fact. It is a gross failure of society--the worse the failure the more egregious the process to commit murder.
It is yet again another failure of society, a bandaid (in a terrible, perverse way) we apply to correct failures--piecemeal, after the fact, with no examination of the potential of prevention. Talk of traditions that die hard.
Yet another reason why GWB as Governor of Texas should have been seen for the filth he was/is. He actually seemed to enjoy his power to order executions. And a so-called Christian!
David
Messages done with sustainable energy, with Wind and Sun! | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 11/27/2006 10:03:44 PM | I agree with kitchenerkat...... I cannot believe in this day and age we are *still* debating capital punishment........pretty much *all* developed nations have done away with it (except the good 'ol US of Assassins) Don't people have a life to live or something?!  | |
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